Is Caine the strongest vampire in all fiction?

Is Caine the strongest vampire in all fiction?

What generation are other powerful vampires(Dracula, alucard, etc)?

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prob some young adult fiction or hasbro RPG where some vampire god is more powerful
generation is only a concept in WoD it doesn't apply to other shit obv

Only in the sense that Caine's powers are arbitrary. He has no feats or defined limitations.
I'd say full-power Arcueid Brunestud (100%/Archetype: Earth) is the strongest one who's not arbitrary. A soul with the weight of the earth, timeless and deathless, who can destroy the human race with a flexing of her will if it amused her.

also to answer your question
whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Dracula_(VTM)
dracula is 5th

>can destroy the human race with a flexing of her will if it amused her.
lol anime

Third generation vampires have powers called "Plot device" that allow them to do whatever they want with no limitations. Caine is a first generation vampire, and he's the most absurdly overpowered vampire in fiction.

That blonde asshole in JoJo maybe?

It's generally assumed that Caine could end the entire human race if he tried

Star vampires: stronger or weaker.

Strongest fictional vampire would be Mandrakk.

Though he's not a vampire in the traditional sense.

Dio's a weak bitch who's only advantage is lmaotimestop.

Dios strong but not Caine strong.

Ultimate Kars might but pillarmen aren't really vampires

They can do anything on a worldly scale, yes. Third gens and lower didn't really go beyond that at their strongest.

How strong can Requiem's version of Dracula be?

Dio can't be the most bullshit vampire, since he is not even the most bullshit JoJo character.

Porn game, technically speaking.

Caine has access to all Disciplines at 10 dots and can create more on a whim.

The only things more powerful are gods(Incarna/Celestines), Jehovah, archmages and horrors from the Deep Umbra.

I'm not sure whether that should make me more or less ashamed of getting aroused while reading that description.

can an archangel like micheal put Caine in his place?

Forgot about Archangels. They could also match him. Lucifer definitely would.

Also Lilith. Maybe even The Crone.

No, since Caine is under God's personal protection. He is invulnerable, and whatever harm you do to him returns to you sevenfold.

What generation is pic related

Or do we not have enough info to figure it out?

That's not really Caine's power, though. We're assuming he doesn't have it.

The only things that can bypass it are Archmages and the weird shit from the Deep Umbra.

Nope, Angles obey the word of God (even if God might no longer "live" in the setting, depending on lore interpretation). And the word of God is that they shall not lay hand on Caine, that's part of his punishment.

I forget that god in WOD is literally god

He'd laugh at Caine and then Caine would no longer exist.

Why the fuck wouldn't he have it, if it's the cornerstone of his entire character? He is so powerful and immortal only because God wills it, and only God can take this power and immortality back.

God is supposedly just a powerful Celestine in Apocalypse, directly subservient to Gaia and the Triat.

Each line has a different interpretation.

That power isn't his. That's kind of the point. He's powerful without it, sure, but the Seven-Fold Curse is an outlier.

In Gehenna Lilith was the stronger of the two, but she had to find a way to work around it.

God is just an Archmage that chose to keep meddling with the material universe

And that's why you don't do crossovers in WoD, ever.

I forget that WOD is a mess

But I digress isn't god YHWH in vampire the masquerade

God and Caine are whatever the storyteller wants them to be in VtM. One possibility for the story is that Caine is dead and has been for a very long time.

God in Ascension might be the collective consciousness of Ascendants.

Though, that consciousness is sometimes alluded to be something completely separate than God, and far more grand.

What is more grand than the being who made the strongest people on earth?

WoD lore directly depends on which line you're playing and is inconsistent by design. Mages from Vampire might resemble the mages from Mage, but only on the surface level.
Which is why crossovers are cancer, and I'm pretty sure White Wolf advised against them.

Well, if the theory holds, then Mages are ironically the ones responsible for Vampirism.

It would be a massive slap to the face of Masquerade fans.

This. People always choose to forget this, but Caine and Gehenna being real instead of vampire fairy tales are more of a suggestion.

Welcome to WoD. Mages rule, everyone else drools. It's true for every edition.

The Gehenna scenarios are all canon, shit though they are.

They're entirely optional as of 20th anniversary editions. Possible futures.

However Caine shows up in bloodlines so he lives through the 80's

No, he isn't actually the cab driver. Devjoke game file names aren't canon.

that fucking VIDEOGAME is not canon

Could Caine beat him

It's considered canon, actually. The events are even mentioned in the lore/novels and other supplements.

>Somewhere between 200 and 300 years old.
>Presence 5
Majesty
>Fortitude 3
shrugs off bullets
>Auspex 3
aura reading
>Protean 2
can manifest beastly claws

6th or 7th gen with high Humanity and mediocre Willpower

I have no convenient explanation for her ability to fly though.

What is canon or not really depends on the storyteller, as opposed to what the dev says, or what some guy on the internet says.
For example, when I run Star Wars games, I ignore the prequels entirely. You wouldn't believe how many more players want to play jedi, if they don't have to be creepy emotionless incels like Mace Windu

Jump good + celery?

No.

Does pic related count as a vampire?

If we're getting into technicality I never really understood why VN's are considered games sometimes. I'm pretty sure Caine could do more damage if he put his mind to it in any case

I mean, I guess? Vampire lore is inconsistent as fuck, and even the usual shit like "afraid of garlic" and "killed by sun" is far from always true regarding the old-timey vampires, nevermind modern donut steels.

Vampires typically suck blood with their teeth but Kars doesn't.

Dio does and so does Caine but whatever.

>Nasufags
Vampire Hunter D and his daddy, Slayer from Guilty Gear, Kain from Legacy of Kain, Sorin Markov (Pre-Mending) are all contenders before her.

That would be one hell of a bumpy ride.
More plausible would be higher Protean and flight as some variant of Mistform.

Or she's a Kuldon.

>I never really understood why VN's are considered games sometimes
Because they're the same essential thing minus a (significant) degree of the interactivity. They're programs executed on a computer with visual, audio, and text elements. Yet they are still interactive and cannot be equated to movies.
Do you count Heavy Rain or Telltale games as games? They're pretty much fully animated VNs.

No. The Pillar Men are to vampires what vampires are to humans. In essence he's a super-evolved organism. You could call him a demigod. But he's not vampiric, he eats his prey whole.

This.

>Sorin Markov (Pre-Mending)
I'd definitely compare her to a pre-Mending planeswalker, though. That's about the degree of A:E.

They're just choose your own adventure ebooks. Adventure games are borderline, but something like Turkeyhandle is really just a book with pictures

Telltale stuff are bad game but still games

But I'm not him, so take my opinion with salt.

I just realized I've been here too long when I thought about that using that picture wrong for 10x as much time as it took to write the post

Choose your own adventure ebooks have no animations or music.

But could Heaven Attention Dio beat Kaine?

Heaven Ascension Dio got beaten by Star Platinum (again), so no.

Good luck, I have 6 swords and ALWAYS go first

If I recall, he started out as some kind of human+, invented the Stone Masks to turn himself into a vampire and then did one better with the Red Stone of Asia or Aja or w/e. It's hard to tell how exactly it would match up when as a vampire his progression to power has nothing to do with age or generational diffusion; it's all artificial starting with the stone masks up til we hit SDC arc and shit started getting weirder.

Still, most JJBA characters seem to stand on Heroic levels, even when you see the Hugely OP aspects of that level they deal with; The World or Star Platinum, if used and taken literally with minimal counter-play options (I don't know what Cain's stat block there ammounts to) then maybe Kars and kind could stand in a conflict but it wouldn't be an auto-win by any stretch, and they'd be more keen to fall back, examine the situation, and come up with a means of artifice or other Joseph-level bullshit to deal with that kind of enemy rather than face it themselves.

Then again idk if anything Cain has could prevent him from losing a coin-flip or something so the weird shit past S3 might start posing a problem, but that's mortal heroes rather than vampire comparison at that point.

>not posting the superior creature
It's like you want to lose

Oh I just realized what you meant
As he is the strongest stated vampire.

I'll eat my words

Tsukihime has no animations, and from what I remember of the mirror moon translation you had to play the music yourself because for some reason it didn't work with the translation. Either way having a soundtrack doesn't make anything more or less a game

>Tsukihime has no animations
Well that's just wrong. The animations are very minor but they exist.
>and from what I remember of the mirror moon translation you had to play the music yourself because for some reason it didn't work with the translation
And that's just a poor installation.
>Either way having a soundtrack doesn't make anything more or less a game
But it does make something less of a book.

>That power isn't his.

None of the power is, technically. It's all ultimately from God. That would include the Sevenfold Curse.

You can't talk about Caine and not include the Sevenfold Curse, it's as fundamental a part of Caine as, well, being a vampire is.

Mages rule so much that they've lost the war for Reality. Magefags tend to forget that - the entire point of Mage: the Ascension is that the Technocracy has WON the war for Reality, and the Traditions just refuse to accept it. A genuine reaction from a lot of Technocrats when they meet Traditionalist mages is "wait, you guys are still around?"

And, yes, the Technocrats are technically mages themselves, but they're not mages in the sense that the other Traditions would have there be mages.

Caine's RPG line sells better and is more well-known. So, in the only way that matters, yes.

The Pillar Men are just Tzimisce with high Vicissitude and delusions of grandeur.

Just because the traditions are a bunch of assmad faggots doesnt mean the technocracy arent also mages

I have no idea what you're calling an animation unless it's characters going from a neutral image to a more emotional one, or adding blur lines or cycling though hentai images or something, and making something "less a book" doesn't make it more a game, which was the original point. I'm saying it's closer to a choose your own adventure book, but that isn't the same thing.

>Mages rule so much that they've lost the war for Reality. Magefags tend to forget that - the entire point of Mage: the Ascension is that the Technocracy has WON the war for Reality, and the Traditions just refuse to accept it. A genuine reaction from a lot of Technocrats when they meet Traditionalist mages is "wait, you guys are still around?"
>And, yes, the Technocrats are technically mages themselves, but they're not mages in the sense that the other Traditions would have there be mages.
Technocrats are mages not just technically but absolutely. Science is magic.

Maybe hes counting Carnival Phantasm

>None of the power is, technically. It's all ultimately from God. That would include the Sevenfold Curse.

The seven fold curse is directly God's power. Caine learned the Disciplines from Lilith.

Moving from one image to another is an animation. So yes, changing sprites, moving sprites, switching CGs and adding blur lines does indeed count as animations.
Again, the closer comparison is Telltale games than a choose your own adventure book. They have animation and sound, and are ran on a computer. Books are fundamentally different. Do you consider Telltale games to be games?

>You can't talk about Caine and not include the Sevenfold Curse, it's as fundamental a part of Caine as, well, being a vampire is.
It's really not. He's also the only Vampire who has it.
It's not tied to the Kindred Curse, it's tied to HIS curse, AKA the curse of 'this is what happens when you piss off God'

What are you? A Caine fanboy?

Nobody has actually won the Ascension war. As of Revised.

The Sevenfold Curse and Vampirism are two distinct curses.

Lilith's Gehenna scenario was retarded. Hey, let's cause a bunch of problems and make life in some city a living hell, yeah that will obviously OBVIOUSLY draw Caine out because he's such a fucking stand-up guy who shoulders not only his but everyone's responsibilities and likes humanity so much.

Sorry, not really related but I've been wanting to rant about it for a while.

Yes, I consider adventure games to be games (though on the lighter end of the spectrum admittedly). I also consider visual novels to be visual novels, and not games. Those two are basically on opposite sides of where I would describe a cut off from the concept of a game. Minigames are basically the line

>ranting about how shit White Wolf was with writing

user, you're not alone.

What can archmages do

and what are horrors from Deep umbra

Do not reply to the above. It will devolve into an Archmage masturbatory session.

Within his Vampire network and the effects of the Curse YHWH placed on him, probably, but he's not a God though, so he's on the Mortal-ish Vampires list.

Probably at the top here- but D&D 2e-3.5 Greater Vampire, or Horror Vampire, at it's patriarch age category with nothing but beneficial salient abilities, Lord of the Land Status, all levels in Master Vampire and 9 in lifedrinker with the swarmshifter, a few stacks of the Enhanced Undead Template, and a few other minor undead stack templates introduced in 3.5 barring spellstiched, which can't be applied to these two types of Vampire Template due to their origins.

But effectively-
Theoretical min-maxpire made possible via Lyssa's little fucking aging exploit
Kanchelsis Intermediate God of Vampires (also a braindead mixed freak retard)
Kaz the Betrayer/Deceiver/bloody-handed
Vlad Tolenkov
Mordoc Lesanmere
Unnamed Patriarch Van Richten Interviewed
Strahd Von Zarovich
That other vampire from FR lore mentioned so far back on the FR timeline it isn't even funny and is a vestige in 4e, was a piss-about

Next to this is the Crimson Moon, but the issue with Vampirism in TYPE-MOON is that it's effectively the regional equivalent of Lichdom ridden with variants and shit, and Vampire by TM standards is "Anything that doesn't like mankind and just so happens to suck blood", so things are fucky. We'll just have Porkslope turkeyhandle and daddy dearest cover this area Zelretch is just wizard bullshit, the vampirism has almost no reason to fucking matter but due to that whole tools of creation crap, they're effectively deific-ish in their own right-

Next to this is Castlevania's Dracula (lore-wise, ingame depictions are in fact, highly off key in favor of his traditional fight gimmicks)

After this, there's Pre-Scrondinger Hellsing Alucard, the Post Scrondinger Alucard, then Pre-Alchemy Alucard.

Then we have !Notvampire Demon Vampire Asian bullshit, I'm not covering it, you know what this Kuei-jin autism is.

>Strahd Von Zarovich
No

D&D vampires just aren't strong.
And he's the strongest vampire in the D&D multiverse.

Anyhow, avoiding the Kuei-jin Vampire Scarlet Devil household Autismfest because it will never be real vampirism, we have the contents of Underworld vampires followed by buffyvamps, and I'd say blade between these, but they're all just Mutants so fuck marvel.

As for the reason post Scrondinger Alucard isn't before walking fortress killcount death Sea Alucard, he had a Demon in there, and pot- he basically gained the powers of "Red skeleton/Annoying cunt you can't kill" due to not being as cool as he was before, but getting Hammer Horror Dracula powers effectively.

Don't talk shit about nothing you know of you filthy 5enigger, Strahd is fucking 500, and that's literally fucking kiddy shti compared to what a 2e Patriarch and the Union of Eclipses has on the table. 5e Strahd is a useless homofaggot, and you need to stop sucking that awful fucking watered down Ravenloft.

No. Really. Vampires in all editions are shit. WoD is on a much higher power-ceiling than D&D, it just is.

I'm farely sure that post-scrodenger Alucard would still lose.

Quatum physics might be one thing but alucard can't actually hurt Caine. And Caine could spend a few years wrecking Alucard and Seras

Infact- just to get you Acquainted-
Kanchelsis (God of Vampires and literally the product of Elven/Human Deity racemixing, lives in the abyss in literally the Scarlet Devil mansion and is borderline retarded.) Deity rank is Intermediate, has patriarch age category powers and the usual top deity level class levels in wizard and rogue
Vlad Tolenkov- High preist of the Union of Eclipses, and is literally shagging Lolth, mentioned in Hordes of the Abyss and has a Demiplane in the Demonweb pits, is the entire reason Drow like Vampires and is so old he's from a 1e module.
Members of the Union of Eclipses, Oldfag cult with all 1000 age old Vampires
Kaz (Base vampire with the ability to drain via any sword with bleed/negative level effects on, is fucking 900, was a demigod at some point and has a higher STR score than base vampire template vampires plus the benefits for his age, including his sword, despite his vampire strain not having domination and instead a suggestion, due to how the age categories work, he gets it anyway and does it by voice as per his age category.)
Mordoc Lesenmare (Epic Level Vampire lord who nearly took over all of Baldurs Gate and was on the verge of becoming possibly an Elder Evil but fucked himself over when he decided to not wait on his unstoppable undead army and instead YOLO solo the city with his lieutentant and a macguffin) Age category not accounted for due to Vampire Lord Template making him an Orcus sellout.
Baron of Blood whatshisface from the Warterdeep splatbook and a Dungeon Magazine questline involving literal Vampire Gingercrack, werewolves, and the second recorded instance of a Vampiric Gibbering mouther.
Nosfera-Something from FR history, now a Vestige in 4e
2e-3.5 Demiplane of Dread Strahd.
Non-canon Expedition to Castle Ravenloft Strahd.

Fucking Newfags.

Still not impressed. They'd all get eaten.

The template is shit, but your class levels aren't linked to your racial powers.

A high powered VTM Vampire gains poers by being a vampire.
A high powered DnD vamp is anyone who is high-level because of their class levels who happens to have the Vampire racial template. See here, who sure, he's got a +8 Vampire level adjustment, but also the +120 Amidah template and 117 levels of Fighter.

Now that's twenty kinds of retarded for Threeaboo reasons that don't matter but it essentially boils down to Alabaster there being so good at fighting that his powers as a vampire are less than an Afterthought.

They sound pretty weak in comparison, sorry.

Archaic vampires in Masquerade are all sorts of fucked up. World killing gods.

>D&D vampires
>mostly spellcasters
>too stupid to become liches instead

That first one is literally also a world-killing deity.

Caine literally cannot be beaten at all.

So whatever they do to him, gets returned sevenfold.

It's part of his curse, god steps in so he can never stop suffering.

Are there any examples of these things from the Deep Umbra? I'm guessing some cosmic horror, but I'd like some context

Yes. Because the strongest wizards in D&D aren't vampires, they're either immortal humans or Liches.

When will people learn.

What if the thing they do is undo the curse?
>God did it, divine mandate, wtf are you on user?
We're clearly talking about comparing settings with multiple deities and Remove Curse from another deity doesn't sound hard to pull off. Or Wish or Miracle for that matter.

Kinda like hitting undead with Phoenix Feathers.

One of the creepiest creatures described was an enormous monstrosity crawling on the surface of a sun dwarfing our own.

The Union frequently confronts things worse than that. The Deep Umbra contains infinity, including all conceived thoughts. They probably decimated dozens of Warhammer 40k universes. Maybe even killed a planet of My Little Pony once or twice.