Why are Skaven so popular?

Gods I hate rats.

I just like rats.

Especially magic inventor rats.

And the fact that they aren't Mary Sue unlike most beast races

Skaven secretly use several Anons as puppets for propaganda.

>And the fact that they aren't Mary Sue unlike most beast races
?

they probably mean "noble savages who did no wrong"

You ever hear of avatar?

Or the chakats?

Those are some example of beast-races that do bad(or stupid) things all the time and are placed on this moral pedestal. The skaven are unnaturally evil, and its flat out stated, which is a breath of fresh air.

it really doesnt make much sense why the beastmen wouldn't get along with skaven. They're both mutated animal-people of chaos

Because Chaos doesn't get along with itself, first of all.

Second the Skaven have their own God who isn't one of the 4 Dark Powers

Except Skaven are the biggest sues in warham.

Fuck the tech, the society is barely holding itself together. If they didn't breed like rats they'd have died out.

nah. If you could would make a list of traits that a mary sue race normally has (good looking, always win, everyone likes them, etc), then compare it to the skaven, there would be little overlap.

Sorry.

...

I do think the whole HORRIBLE UNENDING TIDE WHO CAN 1V1 ANY FACTION thing is dumb, but they aren't sues, because they have flaws. Hell the reason they DON'T shit on everyone is because of those flaws, because they fight each other more than Chaos warbands and are out and out fucking incompetent, kept alive only by their ridiculous breeding rate. I do find the under-empire wank irritating since it's endemic of GW's obsession with every faction having a 'win condition' that never pays off

Queek Headtaker

Queek is considered insane and autistic for a Skaven. He is literally the skaven equivalent of a retard.

Their faggot ass 'magitech' nonsense which honestly dilutes anything cool or frightening about them into 'LE (MAD) SCIENCE!'

They were more interesting when they were sneaky and stabby, less giant goofy wheels and gatling gun nipple giant rats.

>willingly living with rats

Sounds pretty mary sue like for his autism to have no negative effect on his ability to be consistently successful, making it benign. He's clearly a special snowflake.

Don't mind me you beta rat faggots, chad Saurus coming through

>Sounds pretty mary sue like for his autism to have no negative effect on his ability to be consistently successful

That's because normal skaven are so shit and unsuccessful that by being the complete opposite of them he BECOMES successful

Musk.

The most original thing in WFB. Their existance is also a prophecy that GW fulfilled in ET and AoS.

>Queek
>A mary sue

He just likes killing things and he kills things real good without wanting anything more than that, meaning he's useful to those who can direct him. He's a simple character, but that doesn't make him a mary sue.

He was literally raised to be a warlord.

This is wrong though. Skaven fulfilled their win condition.

and it was dumb as fuck

Do WHFB factions even have a win condition?

What's the ogre's win condition?

Eat everything. Yes WFB races had win conditions. Chaos and Skaven were the big winners of ET. Skaven destiny was to become the new men when Chaos won.

It was something that developed over time really. Skaven were a newer faction, and it showed in them having a "win condition". Same for the Lizardmen. The Older factions, like the elves and the empire and the dwarves? They didn't. In fact, the future for them generally looked bleak. Win Condition was a very 40k innovation, in my uneducated opinion.

>skaven not horrifying
>the dark gods trick and plan to replace humans with rats (since they view them as rats)
>spawned by the mixing of rats turned into men and men turned into rats.
>old world equivalent of ufos

Win condition for Elves and dwarves was reversing the polar gate explosion. Same with Lizardmen.

So something literally fucking impossible while for the Skaven and Chaos in general it was "stop murdering each other for five minutes to murder something else"

K

The ogres really should have won. They had the motive, the best bodies, and the technology to take the world.

But the hillbilly cannibals can't actually win.

There was some suggestions in some of the campaigns it was possible. Magical wards and stuff like that. The setting could have swung that way.
A bit like the monoliths in 40k used to contain the EoT.

You act like Chaos and Skaven not murdering each other isn't equally impossible.

>Skavens aren't sues!!
>Literally never lose
>Even when they lose they actually magically win via asspulls
>MAN THEY'RE SOCIETY IS SO SCREWED xD
>no real negative impact
>MAN THEY'RE TECH IS SO BAD AND EBIN DANGEROUS!!
>best tech in the setting by far

Same reason Nurgle is, bunch of fat, greasy, smelly nerds identify with them.

They're fun to play in BB

They got tons of personality as well as comedy gold

Because the vast majority of people have complete shit for good taste.

Because of simpsons.

youtube.com/watch?v=rMESNwX2i0k

They turned an experiment into the basis of a warhammer race. go team

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavioral_sink

>Queek
>Mary sue
>Literally got his head smashed in by a dwarf during the end times

Yeah nah.

I want to play total warhammer 2 so bad. Get Kroq-gar and annihilate the furry bastards. But my computer's shit and I has no money.

The monoliths are gone becasue Chaos is the only thing that can win. Which is why I now hate everything Geedubs puts out and why I love CA so much right now.

>Queek is different than all the other Skaven and is the best Warlord
Yeah, a special snowflake. I'm pretty sure if there was every a skaven snowflake then Queek would be it.

>Literally got his head smashed in
So did 99% of the rest of the characters.

...

>Value system so alien
Who the fuck wrote this?

>>Literally never lose
Thanquoul called.
He said it was his scheming underlings fault.

their

?
I understood what it meant

It's not Alien though, that's the problem.
Skaven values are very easy to understand. They're just very fucked up.

My grandfather hated them too, even before they put out his eyes.

What are you talking about? Except in the end times the skaven ALWAYS lose and look incompetent. The Thanquol and G&F novels are just about them being btfo by everyone else.

Queek isn't a Mary Sue either. He's strong and brave for a skaven but that's no different from Skarsnik being a smart and successful gobbo. He's still a skaven in the sense that he fights dirty and has no qualms about sending lots of his soldiers to their deaths.

>Queer Headgiver
>Sue
It's like you don't even know what words mean.

Because most people are vermin on the inside.

To be fair, most of Veeky Forums doesn't understand what a Mary Sue is.

Because they're over the top ultra evil, super fun villians with a little bit of everything, all wrapped up in a fun, pretty original-tasting package.

Is this the new Gay-Skaven party thread?

Literally never has happened after like 6 or 7e
>thanquol novels
>their codex as fair as that is
>end times (lmao)

Furries

mockery of modern society

I totally do. A Mary Sue is anything I don't like.

A Grey Seer sits on top of his tower, free, for the day at least, from his duties of plotting, scheming, and murdering. He sits alone in his quarters and demands a meal most lavish be brought to his table.

What counts as fine dining and noble cuisine amongst the Skaven?
What do the finest chiefs and culinary-slaves bring to his table?

Braised dwarf with warpstone seasoning and halfling sausage.

The less fortunate ones have to eat raw goblin and skavenslave meat.

I haven't actually read the novels but, from the summaries I've been given, each of them basically revolves around Thanquol being sent on a mission by the council and fucking things up. I think the one with the lizardmen ends with every member of the skaven expediation dead save for Thanquol. He is actually spared by the Slann because they realize he is a liability and will do more damage to his race if he's left alive.

So, yes, before the End Times plot they were more comic relief than Mary Sues.

And honestly, playing and rooting for the comic relief faction is just as fun.

You do know that the Skaven plans in the End Times ended up in disaster and they have to give up all the territory they gained to escape the world that they wanted to conquer.

Go to bed, Roivas.

Rattit

Wasn't it the Horned Rat's plan all along? As in, he promised his followers that they would enjoy the fruits of their victory and dominate the surface world but what he actually wanted was a spot among the pantheon of the Chaos Gods?

No, turned out the Skaven race and even their god were pawns that the Chaos Gods used to get rid of the Lizardmen.

The Horned Rat gaining enough power to buy into the big Chaos table is coincidental.

>End Times
>canon

>save for Thanquol
and his Boneripper, whom he eats on the way over to the old world.
I read the first two books and currently am bout half+way into the third, and yes, they get btfo all the damn time.
they get btfo by gortek in his book, by the shadowmancer in the first book, by lizards/merc in the second, and all the time by other skaven in all of them.
they're the underdogs to be honest, and their motives, though evil are very easy to grasp: "I'm the best, the rest of you can suck it." Unless there's a hint of danger, in which case: "How dare those ungrateful bastards not throw their lifes away to protect their most exalted leader? How can they not realise that I'm much more important then they are?" (Hint: if every single one thinks they're the most important and righteous one, there's bound to be some infighting, or better yet, backstabbing, which is a safer way to get rid of competition)

rats are fellow basement dwellers

>What counts as fine dining and noble cuisine amongst the Skaven?
Corn from the black marsh is the non-plus-ultra, but only because its expensive. Thanquol himself says its like rat droppings
>The display of black corn, such a valued commodity in Under-Altdorf, given so liberally to a mere underling would go far to impress upon Vermisch that Thanquol was above the thieving, cringing inhabitants of this city.
they eat anything, really, human food:
>Thanquol paid scant notice to the wretch, instead sniffing at the platter of delicacies he carried. An array of cheeses and sweetmeats teased his senses, setting his stomach growling. Whatever his other faults, Thratquee had certainly cultivated an expensive taste for human cuisine.
random fruit they find in lustria
>Thanquol studied the fruit basket the gutter runners had brought him. He picked through the assorted nuts and berries, sniffing suspiciously at the ones he wasn’t certain were edible and glancing up maliciously to see which of his minions he would choose to test the suspect berries. He selected a ripe banana. He’d developed a bit of a taste for the mushy fruit. Picking out a leather-skinned melon at the same time, Thanquol let Boneripper gorge himself on the rest of the food that looked safe.
and they absolutely don't mind eating skavenslaves, thats not just for the lowlifes.

>by the shadowmancer in the first book

I fucking hated that guy in the book. I'm not even a Thanquol fan but throughout the story this superman wizard just got on my nerves with his bullshit omnipotence and omniscience. He was really an awful character.

One thing that the Orks have over Skaven, both being some of my favorite factions over all of warhammer, is food.
Somehow, Squigs, fungus beer, and ork oil all sound tasty as fuck.

I wish there was some fluff for orks, skaven, ogres, lizards and dwarves having farming.
You can't support a large population off of hunting. You can't support any population off of cannibalism. And mushrooms require a food source of organic material, they don't just grow. And you can't make enough mushrooms to feed yourself if you only give them your own shit/corpses. That's an energy negative system.

Because Jews like their own kind.

They all obviously farm, the dwarves produce beer after all, so there are crops for that. Squigs are more or less farmed, alongside snotlings and grots being massively replacable and edible, Skaven have rats, black corn, and fetid grains, but Skaven are always hungry, and always on the hunt for more food. Starvation is a constant worry for almost all Skaven.

It's especially weird since the fluff states that skaven have to eat their weight in food every day. I know it's hyperbole to show how ravenous they are and not meant to be taken literally but I'm not even sure the empire in its entirety could produce enough food to feed them all.

Just realized you didn't mention Dwarves, don't skim kids.
As for Ogres, they are literally always hungry, all the time, ceaselessly. Their tribes practice mass-hunting and cannibalism, and generally they do not farm. But hey, they have low numbers so I think they get a pass.
As for Lizards, Skinks hunt and farm because they're busybodies and Inseem to remember somethinf about Saurus not needing to eat?
Citation needed on that one.

agree. just the well-connected captain of the watch would've been nice as the main antagonist, not a fucking superman
>Squigs
No thanks, I'll stick to fresh meat, fruit and corn.
>farming
skavenslaves toil day and night in the black marshes to forage corn, lest they'll be eaten themselves. Skaven also simply steal whatever they can get their paws on.
And I'm pretty sure the dorfs just trade whatever grain they need off the humies
>You can't support any population off of cannibalism
skavenslaves are not just skaven birn into slavery, all pows are slaves/rations as well.

Skaven are like orthodox jewbs.
Stormcast are Sigmars chosen people, so they are the new jewbs.

>GW doesn't want people to play lizardmen!
>that's why they got the best fluff upgrade of any faction!

????

>hahaha, Skaven are jews! XD
>hahaha, Goblins are jews! XD
>hahaha, Dwarfs are Jews! XD
>hahaha, Marienburg are Jews! XD
>hahaha, Gnoblars are Jews! XD
>hahaha, Dark Elves are Jews! XD

all this obsession with jews is teaching me is that GW didn't have jews in mind when they designed any of this

>>hahaha, Gnoblars are Jews! XD
Makes sense
Also Dawi Zharr literally use shekels

>agree. just the well-connected captain of the watch would've been nice as the main antagonist, not a fucking superman

Even the other humans felt lame and forgettable. The captain had some potential but I did not care one bit for the smuggler guy who is supposed to be the hero. I've only read the first of the three Thanquol books but I'm not sure having him as the main character is a good idea. He is literally a cartoon villain. He's ok for short stories as an antagonist but he doesn't have enough meat on his bones to sustain a full novel. I mean, once you've established in the first few pages that he is a dick with no redeeming qualities, where do you go from there? The only thing the book does in terms of character development is to make him act in a more and more retarded and evil manner.

>look how evil he is, he's beating his apprentice
>now he's doing some sick and very painful experiments on a bunch of poor slaves
>now he's bored so he tortures and kills his underlings to pass time
>now he wants to kill everyone in the city for some unclear reason, even his fellow skaven! did we mention he is evil?

It can be funny the first few times but by the end of the novel it was getting a bit dull. Yes, I know, he is a very bad person and he fucks up all the time. Is that it?

Well, since he is just plain crazy evil (you're point on there when you stop to thunk about it, I didn't second guess it for a moment while readng) he can't have much of an arc (thats why he can't be the only "hero" of a novel, so you have to put in some humies, a dorf, a few scalies etc, etc) but he can have a story "done" to him. there are loads of great stories where people don't change on the overall, but rather experience a lot of stuff happening and that still carries a novel/movie/whatever.
I do agree that that can't keep carryimg the stories, that's why I kind of phased out halfway through the third book. I'll finish it, eventually.

They still have a few things that are closer to (real or imagined) rodent behaviour though. Like living in communal burrows, being uncomfortable in big open spaces and literally spraying the skaven below them with musk and piss to mark their dominance. But yes, it's more to give them a bit of extra flavour and they are mostly a parody of humanity at its worst.

are horns a mutation grey seers are born with or they acquire them? Or is that a fancy hat?
Also do all albino rats are drafted for grey seer tests or not?