>GM tells me the next short campaign will be the rest of the party vs. me >GM tells me to take the gloves off for optimization as I will only be two levels above the rest of the party (there are five of them_ >build a character in what I feel is the best way to defeat a party alone >spend my money under the general concept of 'this is someone prepared to go into a couple of insane fights, but loses in an absolute endurance match'
I ended up wiping the floor with the party and the other five got really angry, especially when they learned I was only two levels above them. Was I at fault? Should I have gone easy on them?
Levi Williams
It's the gm's fault my dude, you only did what he wanted you to do.
Cameron Gonzalez
Agreed with You did exactly what you were asked. If the GM didn't prepare the party for this, that's his deal. If the party was prepared and didn't take the threat of another PC seriously (which is a lot different from an NPC), that's their deal. And if the GM wanted you to hold back more or leave in an opening for the PCs to get their feet in, he should have been more hands on than just telling you to "take the gloves off".
Ethan Hughes
What did you play?
What books were allowed?
Brandon Garcia
Thirding and This was the GM's plan, not yours, you just went along with it. If the issue was that you roflstomped, the GM should have had enough system mastery to know your relative strength and maybe given the players a couple nice items, an NPC ally or another advantage to help level the playing field.
May I ask what character you ended up using? In most games (including PF, which this sounds like) fighting against superior numbers of characters is very difficult due to the difference in action economy.
Jacob Wilson
>Other five Either A: 1. They were level 1 which is basically "don't trip and die" the game. 2. They were as absurdly incompetent (It's hard to imagine, but I've been in a group that would actually fail this fight).
Then again, you haven't even mentioned the system.
Jonathan Ward
Basically they knew I was the villain but had another mission. I followed them and waited for a moment of weakness to exploit. Rather than something advantageous happening to save them when I jumped them while they were weak (which the GM normally would) I bypassed the attempt to get them away from me and went for the kill.
Basically I considered myself entirely adversarial and willing to push my luck when I saw an opportunity.
Josiah Harris
Summons and AoE effects can help balance the playing field when outnumbered, and this is true in most any system.
Not saying that's what happened. Just adding a third possibility.
Gabriel Reed
Pursuing them may have gone against genre conventions--Bad Fantasy Dudes tend to cackle or send shitty minions to pursue--and not letting them escape once they know they're outclassed is a bit unnecessary, but I still put the blame squarely on the GM's shoulders.
Ryan Green
>May I ask what character you ended up using? In most games (including PF, which this sounds like) fighting against superior numbers of characters is very difficult due to the difference in action economy. They were level 7, I was level 9. I built a Diabolist Wizard VMC Summoner specialized in summoning. When I started the fight I basically waited for them to get into another fight, not a particularly damaging one, but one I knew was dangerous for them, and open up with me, my Animal Companion Imp, my Familiar Imp, my Eidolon, and a Ice Devil teleporting in together.
My emergency procedure for when I really went for the kill was a Summon Monster IX scroll to bring through an Ice Devil onto my side.
The story was that I was what amounts to a contracted killer by the Infernal Duke I served.
They were level 7, I was 9.
Charles Gray
Do people really go on the internet to lie?
Luis Martin
In addition I had spent one summon monster before going in. So the full list was: >Me >my Eidolon (full level because I used boon companion) >Animal Companion Imp (Given by Diabolist at full level) >Imp (improved familiar) >Ice Devil (Summoned by Summon Monster IX Scroll) >Bearded Devil (summoned with Summon Monster V)
Oliver Nelson
Any idea why your GM asked you to do this? It reeks of passive-aggressive "lesson teaching," though about what I have no clue.
Liam Robinson
>Picture
What is this for a breed?
Jason Rivera
It's a shiba.
He said he wanted a cool boss fight.
Henry Jackson
The other players were at fault. They were mad because they lost, and that's simply the worst type of player.
Zachary Kelly
>I built a Diabolist Wizard VMC Summoner specialized in summoning. When I started the fight I basically waited for them to get into another fight, not a particularly damaging one, but one I knew was dangerous for them, and open up with me, my Animal Companion Imp, my Familiar Imp, my Eidolon, and a Ice Devil teleporting in together. >My emergency procedure for when I really went for the kill was a Summon Monster IX scroll to bring through an Ice Devil onto my side.
Josiah Fisher
To be fair, the GM did tell him not to hold back with the optimization, and summoning is one of the best ways to handle 1v5. Attacking while the party is compromised is just sound tactics.
Jacob Diaz
Why Summon Monster IX and not Gate though?
Zachary Brown
The only thing you did wrong was not talking the DM out of his obviously stupid idea.
Jonathan Gray
Gate only lets you control what you summon if it has less HD then you.
Josiah Gonzalez
>willing to push my luck when I saw an opportunity.
Chase Davis
I've been in a few PvP encounters/campaigns before and someone's going to get mad about it pretty much every time.
It's nearly always the GM's fault.
If you're running a game and over/undertune something, you can just correct it on the fly. Your monsters won't feel cheated if you lower the damage something deals. Players will.
Christopher Robinson
One guy up against five. Gotta even those odds somehow.
Christopher Green
What would you have done instead, rolled a Fighter and get curbstomped?
Benjamin Butler
Since he was an assassin, I would have plotted to assassinate them one by one when they rested, or snuck into their camp and poisoned food and brought escape options for if I was caught
Mason Morales
Or roll a Wizard and assassinate them all in a single go, as it turned out.
Ayden Howard
PvP in roleplaying games is shit. You should have refused and spalled your GM for coming up with a really shit idea.
Betraying your party is probably the second worst thing you can do, after bringing them into your magical realm.
John White
*slapped not spalled. Fuck me
Jose Sullivan
Post your build faggot
Zachary Perry
It's based on the scroll's caster level.
Landon Wood
I know it's 1v5 but >my plan was to just use a CR 13 enemy against a level 7 party atop of everything else I had
The CR system is fucking trash, but that's still a huge cop-out.
Nathan Morales
Well you got extra actions to perform those summonings before the fight started. Summoning spells are full round actions for a reason and they're already op with that loss of action economy
Owen Ortiz
I generally went in with 'I should try and win with most everything I got'.
I ever betrayed them, I was always adversarial in this campaign.
My other build was an unfindeable vigilante with hide in plain sight, dampen presence and more. Would have killed folks one at a time and disappeared.
Gabriel Reyes
I was using clairvoyance to watch their fight then did the summoning as their fight was finishing before teleporting in from 800 feet away where they didn't know I was there.
Luis Anderson
Personally, I would have gone with a Warlock that grabbed Bestow Curse at will, Invisibility, and that short range teleport.
Just spend the whole fight sneaking around stacking curses on them and teleporting across the battlefield whenever they figure out where you are.
Wizard casts See Invisibility? Curse him with blindness.
Its not very optimal, but it sounds like a fun way to troll a party.
Ian Hernandez
What is the difference between another PC and NPC in threat?
Kayden Cox
it's a doge
Josiah Flores
The fact that NPCs back off before killing the PCs where as a PC will go for it.