Player Engagement

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Any GMs here have a major problem with player engagement before??

I've been running for a group of friends for a while and I'm kind of at my wits end.

>Players barely pay attention at the table
>Talk to each other about memes and other unrelated stuff. Constantly interrupt descriptions and slows down combat
>When they do pay attention, as soon as I'm not talking to them for half a second they get on their phones and have no idea what's going on when I get back to them
>Interrupt the session to order food, can't play before, after or while food is coming.
>Tried different styles of games: narrative, combat bases, dumb stuff for shits and giggles
>Also tried different system: rules light, rules heavy and even meme garbage like MAID RPG
>Same result every week
>Every week when I end the session early because no one's paying attention they don't want to stop
>But apparently they don't want to play either based on how they act
>When I decide not to run stuff for a while they always talk about how much they miss playing X system and great moments from previous sessions.

I'm just really not sure what stuff I could try to get them more engaged. I do enjoy hanging out with them and GMing when they play well but it feels like they don't respect the work I put in to prepare stuff for them.

It sounds like they don't want to play

I realize that and I'd agree with you if they always talk to me about how much they want me to run something on weeks where I don't run anything.

Honestly I just want to run a good game that can engage them. It seems like that's what they want

>spend at least 3 hours every day, with work and classes, to make the session day work
>detail my maps, NPCs, and try to have a passable amount of descriptions for both as well
>try to call players by their character names, act out different voices for NPCs, make enemies act in combat like they would in reality as opposed to a video game (retreating if seemingly going to lose/heavily injured, avoiding the group altogether if outnumbered/outgunned, and other things).
>Try to let them dictate the pace and direction of the story so they can have the reigns and try to give a shit
Never fucking mattered.
>treated the session like a video game because resurrection is a thing so who cares if I die
>meme-spouting
>characters seemingly aware of death saves, massive damage, or whatever kinds of prerequisites for death the system has and will do incredibly painful/suicidal things because meh who cares just throw a potion on me

The list goes on an fucking on, I know your pain. Last week I sat a few of the players who I thought were actually worth a damn and told them what I've been expecting from the game thus far and that they have ruined tabletops for me. All my attempts to immerse them into the world, all my time I've put into the campaign, and all because they never want to DM making it impossible for me to play since they always flake two session in if they have to. It ruined the medium for me and I vented my frustrations at them, and they honestly had no idea. They assumed that since I kept making shit that I was having fun when it was the exact opposite. After that I cut the fat off of my player base. Over 7 people that had been playing in the campaign to that point, and who had put over 2000 hours into their characters, were removed from the group.

Next session I got mostly new people, explained what I'm expecting from my players from now on, and enjoyed the first session I've had in years. Talk to them, lay down the law, and cut those you know are shit.

Other people's engagement is not your responsibility

Other people's fun is not your responsibility.

You run your game how you want to run it. Fuck your players.

If they can't pay attention it's their fucking problem.

You can either accept it as this generation has a notoriously bad attention span or if it is detracting from your enjoyment of the game you can just tell them that it's a problem and ask them to put their phones away and pay attention. If they don't stop running the games. Simple as. People only respond to consequences.

Do consider that if you sit down to say watch a movie now, and lets assume it's a good, critical acclaimed film, which likely had a massive budget and took hundreds of man hours to produce. Most shit munchers watching it will still be half watching it on their on their phone. And films have movement and flashing lights which you'd think would distract these monkeys for long enough but alas no.

So what hope do you have ?

You sound like you have a pretty good thing going all things considered, a bunch of friends who meet up, share a meal together and half a laugh. But they're clearly never going to appreciate a hand crafted, detailed campaign. I'd stick to extremely rules light systems that you don't have to prepare for and board games. If you have that particular ttrpg itch, you'll have to find another group.

>If they can't pay attention it's their fucking problem
There can be boring GMs. And if it's boring, a player's mind will wander.

Saying everything is on the players' shoulders is a stretch.

*have a laugh
>phone posting

Before this turns into a shouting match, OP, do you think you're boring? Have you asked your players if you're too long winded, etc.

Not saying you are, but have you checked?

Yes that's because nobody has any sense
of responsibility.

If your games boring as a player put effort into it to make it engaging. Don't just expect the DM to be your dancing monkey. Or accept that sometimes you might feel bored , say during another players turn and still choose to act engaged anyway.

Don't be a shit munch and make everybody's experience shit because of your feels.

If the players say they're having fun and pine for more, they're either all unreasonably polite, or they enjoy the game. We can probably cross out boredom.

I have a similar issue.
Just tell them.
If the problem persists afterwards then stop gaming

Are you sure they're not just lying to you? In my group of friends people won't tell anyone how they actually feel about something and will instead tell them that they love it even when in reality they hate it. One guy was trying to get everyone to play Guild Wars 2 and the rest of us kind of led him on for a while even though we hated the game. He ended up buying the thing and all the expansions expecting us to all play it with him and then we all just quit without saying anything to him about it.

I don't know your people so I can't say whether that's whats going on with you, but it is something you should think about.

First and foremost, talk to them about it. If they can't at least agree to not fuck around in their phones during the game then fuck them. If they genuinely enjoy the game, then they should be willing to humor you.

The first thing you got to do is be honest and ask 'is it me'. Are you doing something or not doing something that is preventing people from getting involved or paying attention. None of us like to really look at that, but it is something you have to consider.

After that, you got to look at the players. It may be that it is just one or two of them. and getting rid of them, or talking to them, can fix things.

But more likely it is a culture thing. People tend to conform to what are seen as local cultural norms. You have likely developed in your table a 'culture' of not being invested in the game.

You will have to change that. But changing something like that can be difficult. Sometimes you can do it by talking to people, but often you have to bring new people in and then create the culture you want (usually by laying out expectations and enforcing them until they are habit).

If it isn't you. If talking to them doesn't work. Then cut the worst players and work on developing a new table culture.

I mean I'd like to think I'm not. I'm good at improvising when players inevitably go off the beaten path and there's rarely any time spent where nothing's happening or people are milling about. That and my players have told me they really enjoy interacting with the characters I create

So far I have noticed that when I do rules heavy systems, everything gets bogged down with rule lookups and figuring out what to roll and that's obviously boring for everyone, myself included.

The problem with the current thing I'm running is my players literally weren't paying attention when I set the scene for the beginning of the session and everything thereafter. Even combat was only paid attention to when I'd love enemies and describe them in menacing ways or when I'd call on someone to roll or do something. And this is literally the fastest, simplest fantasy tabletop we've ever played (Warhammer Fantasy 2nd Edition) and it's all percentiles so there's no fucky math to be had

*move enemies.

Inb4 phoneposter

>Talk to each other about memes
There is nothing wrong with memes in real life, OP.

>treated the session like a video game because resurrection is a thing so who cares if I die
They can't come back if there's no body.

Well, either you're a good cook, this is a genuine social outlet for your group, or you're really hot and your players all want your genitals.

>When I decide not to run stuff for a while they always talk about how much they miss playing X system and great moments from previous sessions.

This clinches it. Stop being so damn needy, OP. They obviously enjoy playing the teeg, but aren't being as invested as you would personally like. Just get over it. Run a rules light system, do minimal planning and try to lighten up.

some players are very passive, and are simply "along for the ride". it sounds like you have a table filled with them. If they are talking about cool stuff that happened in your game, they are at least engaged (maybe not as much as you would like but engaged all the same).
(I know this because these kinds of players pop up all the time. I have two in a group I am currently running.)

That said, have you tried talking to them?

Sounds like they enjoy your DMing just suffer from the attention spans of goldfish. It's a problem I'm on the player side of myself, I'd love to not get distracted but I always do.

Are you This Guy? You sound like This Guy.

>this guy
Don't you mean That Guy?

This guy? Or that guy?

...

Sounds like they're enjoying themselves but just in a less serious way than you. Just cut loose a bit and join them in on the fun.

Don't plan as much and be more flexible. Even if it's just a page or two of short descriptions and things you would like to happen. The less time you put into it, the less offended you'll be by them not being fully engaged all the time. Players don't have that inherit time investment into the game as DMs do.

For my group, it helped to have both serious and comically parts, or even both at the same time. That way the meme-spouting becomes talking about the funny things that happened in an earlier session. The players that just want to goof off feel fulfilled. And for a lot of casual players it's very draining to roleplay seriously for an extended period of time. It's a way to give them a break and yourself a break while also bringing on a more positive vibe to the table.

Also put combat turns on a timer (dice rolls not included). Raises tension and keeps combat going.

Sometimes you're just on an off-day or something, tired whatever.

You say you've tried different systems and everything, but did you try changing the schedule? Playing at different hours might do the trick. Perhaps the time you're playing at they have too much stuff going on to distract them, whatever.

>when the one loud guy talks all the time and gets bored immediately and makes sure everyone knows he's bored
>you try to immerse yourself in the setting and your character to validate the GM's efforts to validate your character

They like the company, but they don't like the activity.

You're all adults. Talk to your nerds.

"Hey, I really like running $SYSTEM but I feel like you guys aren't engaged because you're always on your phones / we have too much table talk / we get distracted by food.

I want to run $SYSTEM for you guys but when you're not paying attention I feel like the preparation and effort I put in goes to waste. What can I do to keep your attention?"

Sit them down and have a frank, slightly uncomfortable discussion with them. Find the answer. Maybe you need to ban electronics from the table or do the pub thing where you stack all your phones up and whoever takes theirs first pays for dinner. Maybe you need to change or improve your GMing style, your ability to describe scenes, your ability to control pacing and flow, etc. because they don't feel immersed. Maybe you guys need to play between lunch and dinner, or after dinner to minimize distractions.

There's no perfect answer. Talk to them, find out why they're fucking around on their phones and offer a solution. If they don't shape up then say you're done running RPGs for them. Maybe a board game or movie night would be more their speed / attention span.

Maybe you need to cut a few of the worst offenders, recruit to fill their spots. Too many variables.

>You have likely developed in your table a 'culture' of not being invested in the game.
>You will have to change that. But changing something like that can be difficult.
THIS.

Everything in the OP post sounds like a group that is very much enjoying a laid back, casual as hell, beer and pretzels game that could just as easily be any board game.
But the GM seems unsatisfied with wrangling the group.
Either make changes to how the group plays or remain unsatisfied.
For change, either the group invests in the game or the GM stops trying.

Some general tips on how I run:
I allow a half hour at the beginning of the session for greetings, late arrivals, set-up, and general chit-chat bullshit.
After that, we are there to play not bullshit.
Phones and other distractions are put away. I don't play with children, so they can keep them to receive texts or calls and putter with on break or when the focus is on others for a few minutes or whatever.
I don't spend more than a few minutes discussing rules; I make a call and we move on.
Food and meal breaks are decided ahead of time.

>The problem with the current thing I'm running is my players literally weren't paying attention
Part of the role of GM involves commanding the attention of the group.
Do not allow them to ignore you.
You are not their chatting pal.
You are the GameMASTER.
Master the damn game.
You are in a position of mild authority; if you don't run the game, it doesn't happen. (Never state this as the concept cannot be stated without sounding like a self-important tool.)

Any speaker in front of a group needs to command the attention of the crowd or remain entirely irrelevant.

I've consistently had one problem player like that in my groups. She just doesn't seem to pay attention at all, and I have no idea what's distracting her so bad because it doesn't seem like she's doing anything else (all of our games use online tabletop). She'll just go quiet while the rest of the party talks about searching a room or solving a puzzle, and she seems to just zone out because once the party starts moving their tokens to leave the room and find another, she doesn't move and we need to get her attention and remind her to move her token so she doesn't get left behind. Not brashly unengaged, but unengaged enough that she's kind of a burden on the party.

Thing is, she actually quit doing tabletop with us because she realized it wasn't the kind of game for her, but her boyfriend kept playing with us, and I have a feeling she got tired of him doing something without her, because a couple years after she decided to quit she applied to join a new campaign we were starting. Problem is, when we got down to actually running the game she was almost as unengaged as she was before she quit.

I really don't get it. Everyone else playing is able to put everything else down and focus on the game and enjoy it, but she just doesn't show any investment, probably is just browsing the internet until we get to a combat or something.

>she realized it wasn't the kind of game for her, but her boyfriend kept playing with us, and I have a feeling she got tired of him doing something without her
There you have it.
Unless you can talk with her and find some way to get her more engaged with the game, or encourage her to sit in with group but not play if she isn't interested (if you think that would be better), you're just going to have to accept the situation until she matures or the inevitable break-up.
There was one gf that ended up coming just to listen to the game and doodle draw the characters, but mostly just diddled around on her phone.
She was still a minor distraction for the bf, but a better, lesser one than a gf that texts every 15 minutes.
Good Luck, user.

It's oddly a running occurrence with her. She asks to join our text RP groups or our tabletop RPGs, but not once has she ever fully participated or done anything significant in any of those groups. If she just wanted to spectate you'd think she'd just ask to watch/listen/read, but she always tries to make a character and get involved, and then when her turn to participate comes around the entire thing just screeches to a halt. An RP group a friend of mine started has been halted for over a month because it's been her turn to do something and she won't post. When one of the participants expressed his (understandable) frustration verbally, her response was to hide her online status so she didn't have to deal with it.

At this point I'm pretty sure she has some extreme social anxieties, but she keeps setting herself up for failure without attempting to get over it.