/tgesg/ - Weekend Elder Scrolls Lore General

One got a game.

Is Daggerfall not a Breton game, I mean when I ask why the next Elder Scrolls game can't be set in High Rock people say its because Daggerfall is the High Rock game despite the number of cities and settlements being an even split between Breton and Redguard.

Oh fuck, you are right. Though I would argue that for the lore the games past Daggerfall are much more important.

>important
More like its more developed, guess MK was more interested in the Drizzt race than fantasy humans.

bosmer - native americans
nords - finnish people
dunmer - asian
breton - americans
altmer - vietnam
cyrodiil - romans
redguards - africans
orcs - islam
khajiit - indianss
argonians - mexicans

I didn't know Talos was a literally who.

you got one right so congrats

Switch Orcs and Redguards since Redguards seem more like Arabs and Orcs are more tribal.

Also Dunmer were influenced by Arabic and Indian culture according to Michael Kirkbride, Morrowinds lead writer.
Vivec himself was influenced by an Indian god.

Depends, do you believe the Arcturian Heresy or not.

I see we're talking about Bretons again.
Make no mistake, we might not have many official sources on them but they are in no way boring. True, they lived under Altmer rule for so long that they went from being just a bunch of northern Nedic tribes to forming a new hybrid manmer race but there is much more to this than just a story serfdom.

There's the caste system where Altmer and the most Mer-blooded of Bretons sit at the top, with the rest of the Bretonic people under them (and the Nedic leftovers occupying the lowest ranks). There's High Rock's dynamic relationship with the Nords who established outposts in the land a long time ago and even ruled over it for some time. Then there's the somewhat troubled connection to the Reachmen, another group of East Bretic peoples that had formed their own identity and who might not seem to foreign to the Eastern Bretons, but are often a thorn in the side of High Rock's Illiac-oriented elites. And of course, who could forget the Orc question.

I believe Hjalti Early-Beard was the Shezzarine that mantled the forgotten identity of Ysmir Wuunferth when Wuunferth became the underking (according to MK there are a few more underkings, I'm not a loremaster) who went on to power the mantella and Numidium with his soul and the soul of the Shezzarines Zurin Arctus and the Underking (Ysmir) thus assending to godhood as Talos, mantling Lorkhan.

This is my understanding of Talos

Were Direnni High Elves, I thought they were a branch of Aldmer. Like Altmer, but distinctly not Altmer.

The Dirreni clan were Altmer. They (or at least part of the clan) left Summerset Isles for High Rock (not sure if there's any information on any other Altmer leaving with them but I presume they weren't alone). After the collapse of the Ayleid city states in Cyrodiil, there were also Ayleids fleeign to High Rock.

Weren't the Direnni Ayleids

Sure he was from High Rock, but his name looks like a Nord name.

en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:De_Rerum_Dirennis
>Asliel Direnni harkens back to the humble beginnings of our clan, in the tiny farming village of Tyrigel on the banks of the river Caomus which was then called the Diren, hence the family name. Like all on Summurset Isle [...]

Is there confirmation either way from a reliable narrator of the origins of Hjalti early beard?

This excludes any books in game which are ignorant of the truth of Talos.

Of the remaining High Rock kingdoms after the Warp, which ones have the most influence? Daggerfall, Wayrest, and the rest? Is Evermore one of the surviving kingdoms, what did it absorb?

Does Skaven, Hammerfell get it's name from the Skaven in Warhammer?

I know a lot of people hate Lydia but I thought she was pretty hot, also she doesn't care when I fus ro dah her off cliffs so that's pretty kinky.

half nord - half breton maybe?
or perhaps their cultures were very similar at the time.

bretons are based of the franks ya dingus

Why is Hammerfell so big, shouldn't that mountain range that has Dragonstar be High Rock or Skyrim territory?

No? High Rock ends south of the Bjoulsae.

Imperial maps didn't acknowledge Skyrim's annexation of Dragonstar and the surrounding territory.

>south
You mean north, right?

There is a river. High Rock is to the north of it, Hammerfell is to the south of it. Therefore High Rock ends south of it and begins north of it.

So was the Second Dawn (if I'm remembering it right) and the Dragon Break really over 1000 years, and did the Reman Empire and the Aldmeri Dominion really have space(aetherial?) travel?

Is Pelinal some sort of advanced terminator golem from this time period?

If so, are there any artifacts other than the Armor of the Crusader? Are there ruins on the moon (s)? Did the lunar province get abandoned, or might there still be people up there?

ELDER SCROLLS IV: SECUNDA?

Marrying a Dibellan priestess, is that like marrying a whore, or like marrying an elf sex expert?

High Rock extends to the Bjoulsae river, therefore north of it.

[Redacted]

I don't know much about lore. If Bretons are supposed to be based on French, and they have had much definitive canon expanded on them, what would be there inspiration for flavor from real life sources?

I can't see how it's not an opportunity for Arthurian flavor. Cliche'd maybe, but it's a perfect fit.

There's a mix of French and English, but mostly French. More importantly, why isn't there like a Matter of France for High Rock? A Breton Charlemagne and Roland, and the Chrysamere filling in for the Durandal. Wish the Chrysamere would make a come back.

>MMXVII
>making real life comparisons

Can't all have wacky drug fueled lore

They're not supposed to be equivalents of real life ethnicities or cultures, that's the laziest kind of representation

yet that's what most races get, tell me some unique Bosmer or Breton lore that isn't a mirror of something that's real

Nah, he said if it was up to him every race would just be "human" and differentiated by culture.

A ghost Hroldan mistakes the Dovahkiin for Hjalti. That's about as close as you're going to get for now.

1008 years. Yes to all. Maybe some Khajiit and crashed Battlespires.

Wouldn't that just re-assert that the last Dragonborn is a Shezzarine?

>crashed Battlespires
>plural

What exactly were they? Fortresses to keep Deadric forces out? Space (aetheric?) battleships?

Where they for fighting the sunbirds?

Sorry for the question barrage, just very interested and not much lore on them. They have been mentioned in game right?

>what is the wild hunt
>what is y'free

I...sort of agree with you, user, but I also disagree.

Many TES cultures are reflective of real world elements, that is not to say that it sums them up entirely(though over the years it has grown to sum them up more and more) but elements can be seen lifted directly from real world stuff. We've spent a few threads discussing influences and things we'd like to see and I'm gonna wager that we're still not really any closer to creating truly unique cultures for Tamriel than we were when we started. Not in the least because no user here has shown artistic skill to make concept art. Making new cultures is hard without some sort of reference and the best a lot of us can do in general is find something from history we like and rework it to fit the setting.

No, not necessarily. More of an assertion that Hjalti was a Dovahkiin, wouldn't it be?

>What exactly were they?
The last one, yep. Battleships. The last Battlespire in use by the Empire (as seen in the game, Battlespire) was used as a training facility for mages. Off the top of my head both Battlespires and sunbirds were in use during periods of conflict between the Empire and the Altmer (I think?), but mothships are probably closer in size to sunbirds.

so if Bosmer weren't descended from the Aldmer, or Ayleids how are they still considered the Altmer's distant cousins?

I don't think they'd last very long. Magic itself work differently in Warcraft and TES. They'd be completely cut off from the emerald dream, no aspects, Druidism probably wouldn't work for them. They're entire societies gender roles would collapse, since males can't be druids. Since they never defended from ehlnofey, they'd probably be cut off from the aedra. Azura might take an interest given the moon-warship, but she probs has her hands full with the dunmer and khajiit. Most cultures in tamriel are xenophobic as fuck, so they probably'd have a hard time finding allies. Bosmer might take them in, cause if they're affinity with nature, and if that happens they'd probably just get out fucked, and Bosmer would end up being taller and slightly purple.

Altmer like to think of themselves as sort of the paternal figure to all Mer.

Still dances around the question, if Bosmer were basically given their current form from making the Green Pact how are they related to Altmer at all since the Altmer are descended from the Aldmer.

They're both Mer, so it's a loose connection.

>Sword SINGING
>Dragon SHOUTS
>TONAL architecture

Why the fuck are bards not world destroying badasses in the Elder Scrolls?

They're all supposed to have a common ancestor, the Aldmer though.

What the fuck do you think all those are forms of?

Music.

The Doom drum beats like the Heart.

Well yeah. My point is why aren't regular bards aren't also bad ass wizards by default?

I get most human cultures reflect real world cultures, but the mer are all completely original. What real world civ turns into chaos spawn, or lives in giant mushrooms or crab shells?

Do the different providences of Tamriel have their own flag? and I swear to god if anyone posts the flagbearer meme I'm going to CHIM them out of this reality

I don't think they do. I've seen some that are fan-made that look pretty cool, but nothing canon.
Pic related, is valenwood flag

Provinces are really only a vague political entity enforced by the empire, you'd be better off looking for individual kingdoms. Wayrest, Daggerfall, the Great Houses of Morrowind, the holds of Skyrim. Those all have emblems, heraldry or flags. It's too bad there isn't anything for Ne Quin-al or Pa'alatiin yet.

Dibella priestesses are lesbian only until marriage so the hymen is still there.

Even Orsimer?

The Bretons are... Wait for it. Based on the Britons. Broadly, Brittany (the ones in France.)

*Altmer reeeeing intensifies*

Or something along those lines, I'd suppose. The whole jist of the Altmer is that they're not really as honest or upfront as they'd like to play themselves off as.

So they still think of themselves as paternal figures to Orsimer too?

Nah, most men and mer like to treat Orsimer like shit.

It takes a shitload of practice.

Skooma-Pill me on Elsewyr, thread.

Nords took them as one of their own cause his shouts are top tier.

Imperials love Orsimers', they are very useful in the legions and are well adapted to cosmopolitan life.

Plus Orcs make excellent husbandos and waifus.

I'm pretty sure it's just been said that Orsimer make good legion members and smiths, but even in Oblivion, people still treat orcs like they're lesser.

Bosmer - vaguely Amerindian (particularly South American) wood elves.

Nords - Mix of pre-Christian Germanics and Scots, with some shades of Tibet. Alternately egalitarian Norse Winter Muslims in Skyrim.

Dunmer - Strongly Abrahamic - vaguely Hebrew (Morrowind was basically a vague New Testament analogy with Morrowind (the province) as an analogy of Roman-occupied Judea)) though they've got more than a bit of Arab influence, and the Tribunal Temple is clearly intended to be reminiscent of the Catholic Church.

Bretons - Franks, or Franco-Brits. High Rock as shown in Daggerfall is basically Game of Thrones land.

Cyrodiilians - Outside of Oblivion/ESO: Eclectic mix of equal parts Imperial China and Imperial Rome, with shades of the Franks and the Aztecs. As shown in Oblivion and ESO: vaguely Edwardian English.

Altmer - Not really based on anything. Kind of like a sort of parody of Colonial Europe or Nazi Germany, with the obsession with racial purity taken to the point of killing all babies not "pure" enough. Not sure where you got Vietnam. That seems pretty random. Nothing about their culture as described, or their language, or their material culture seems even vaguely Vietnamese or even Asian. And if you're implying they're jungle farmers who have spent most of their history dealing with invasions from larger more powerful empires... what???

Redguards - Vague mix of Japanese and West African (variously Mali, Hausa city-states, and Tuaregs depending on region). Also some Swahili shades.

Orcs - (very) Vaguely reminiscent of pre-Christian Slavs. Not even vaguely similar to any Islamic culture so not really sure what you're on about there.

Khajiit - Indians, yeah. Well you got that one right at least.

Argonians - As described pre-ESO, not really anything like any human culture. Maybe you could make a vague case for Vietnamese? Not sure where you got Mexican, that one really confuses me.

Let me rephrase that, actually. Bretons are not Franks, rather they are French, or Franco-Brits.

Also a lot of Dunmer cosmology is influenced by Vedic religion but a lot of TES cosmology in general is so no surprise there.

ALL TIME OBJECTIVELY DEFINITIVE TES RACE RANKINGS

>LIVING GOD TIER

Dunmer

>PATRICIAN TIER

Imperials
Argonians
Khajit

>LEGOLAS TIER

Bosmer

>SHONEN-GANDALF TIER

Altmer

>NIGGER TIER

Redguard

>SNOWNIGGER TIER

Nords

>LITERALLY WHO TIER

Bretons

>LITERALLY SHIT TIER

Orsimer

so could vivec have used his chim derived power to defeat dagoth ur on his own?

>bosmer - Indonesians
>nords - Norwegians
>dunmer - Persians
>breton - British
>altmer - Nazi Jews
>cyrodiil - Rome+Russian empire
>redguards - Supposedly North African pirates but slowly shifted out for Somalian pirates
>orcs - Roaches
>khajiit - Indians+Egyptians (would be funy if they got into a conflict with the Redguards)
>argonians - Vaugely centra-south American natives

>Aztecs/Imperial China

Tell me more, Sempai, I want to hear that.

As well as the bits about Japan in the Redguard, curious there as well.

Non.
Orcs like Gor-bok Mash Gak lok are respected and well composed.

That was the only downside for me on Skyrim. You get almost no backghround on most followers (with some exceptions like Aela).
That was what i loven about Baldurs Gate, for example, your group really felt like a group of different persons.

Like OP said, would be nice to know how Lydia got her position, for example. Or why she doesn't give a shit if you turn against Balgruf later on.

Why hate Bretons?

Bumping with some old stuff

The Imperial City, the heart of the Empire, lies sprawled across the many islands in lake Rumare, surrounded by the vast fields of the Heartlands region. It is a crossroads in many ways; as the centre of the continent-wide Empire, it is where merchants, diplomats, scholars and fortune-seekers come from all over the known world, getting lost in the massive crowds of the ant-hill that is Cyrodiil City. And inside the confines of the Jeralls and the Valii, this is where the martial Colovia and the crafty Nibenay meet, along with the many bigger or smaller groups that make up the Cyrodiils.
It is on the banks of the Rumare that the Nedes that had been brought to the Heartlands from all over the Ayleid-ruled lands generations prior to Saint Alessia’s heroic effort, those that either lacked knowledge of where their ancestral lands lay or had no wish to return there, settled down, mixing with the local Heartland tribes, the Rumare Nibeneans as well as some of the Nordic mercenaries that had helped in the war effort. Out of this pan-Nedic conglomerate formed the modern Heartlanders. Ironically enough, the identity of the people who had distanced themselves from the “proper” Nibeneans, would to many a foreign observer be seen as the stereotypical Nibeneans.
Throughout the ages, the city had seen many changes. The original Ayleid settlement – the modern “Wheel” containing the Imperial palace and the many historical districts – was built on the main island due to the central location in the Heartlands. As the Ayleid population in the region grew, more and more Nedes were brought into slavery or serfdom, with many ending up on the islands of Lake Rumare. Much like the native Nedes in High Rock or elsewhere in Cyrod, the people of Rumare settled down in villages of shacks surrounding the Ayleid city and as Saint Alessia began the war, they had already formed a community sprawled across the isles.

>tfw Cyrodiil will never get represented properly

Feels shit, man.

>tfw High Rock will never get represented properly
Although I do like architecture in ESO for High Rock

Haven't looked around ESO too much. How does it look?

nobody wants to try and take it from the niggers and their curved swords

Dibella worship doesn't just include sex and natural beauty. It also includes painting, sculpting, and other forms of art. I'm fairly certain that the stained glass windows in Cyrodiil's chapels would have been painted by a Dibellan priest(ess).

The consensus is no. CHIM allows you to use your power out of love (I do this for you red legions, for I love you). As much as Vivec said he loved his people, there's evidence that Vivec feels remorse for whatever happened after the battle of red mountain, and that seems to influence his powers.

No. Exerting the CHIMaroo too much will wake the dreamer and then you're all fucked.

>Imperial China
Fields of rice, common use of silk for textiles, ancestor worship, dragon symbolism, etc.
>Aztecs
Well, as described pre-Oblivion (or hell even in Skyrim outside of that guy in Windhelm), Cyrodiil was basically Mesoamerica and the Imperial City was basically Fantasy!Tenochtitlan (even has a similar location and layout). Plus there's the Arena, which certainly reminds me of both the Mesoamerican ball game (in the sense that it's arena entertainment in which someone dies at the end of every game) and a certain form of sacrifice I read about once in which a warrior was tied by the ankle, naked and armed with a club, to a blood-draining platform in the middle of a grand arena and could only escape if they could kill a hundred of the city-states best warriors (who were armed with macuahuitls).

>Japan
Gaiden Shinji, sword reverence, a lot of the details of the Yokudan Civil War (aside from the obviously fantastical magic ones) are clearly (to me at least) supposed to be reminiscent of the end of the Japanese feudal era, and Emperor Hira (Hira is a pretty Japanese name btw) seems a bit like a less successful Hideyoshi.

They do have a lot of unauthorized orgies though, scandalous.

Well of course but it's not ALL they do. Who doesn't enjoy an orgy every once in a while?

Interesting points on the Aztec bits, but I don't remember anyone in Skyrim talking about jungles, nor did I ever really think of Central or South American jungles. I get what you're going for here, but arenas to me are pretty worldwide. I am interested as to that last bit about the warrior though, do you know where I could read about that?

Where does rice Cyrod end and wheat Cyrod begin? Would you say it correlates with the border between Colovia and the Heartlands/Nibenay?

I'm thoroughly convinced nobody really gets what Bosmer are if they associate them with Native Americans, Amerindians, and Indonesians.

I'm perfectly fine with leaving them as tribal folk but people want their real life equivalents. Yes no shit Imperials are based off Latins can we talk about something else now?