Whats your stance on scientists?

I maintain Ripper Street had one of my all time favorite scientist party members.

obligatory

That they are at their best when they do nothing wrong.

Idofront arc adaption WHEN

I too like scientists who are also best dad and are completely justified in their actions.

Please, we all know science isn't real.
For every scientific phenomenon there is a simple and logical magical reason.

they absolutely NEED to be small evil geniuses

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They are outdated. We only need a small group of them to discover new things,the rest will be professors in high schools who will do nothing in their whole lives

Overrated because of the le wacky crazy scientist meme.

They're just people who know stuff, its about as dangerous as everyone else who might know things to be dangerous.

I can only get into it if the scientist is also a part of the occult or Church.

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They're irredeemable.

My view on scientists is that wizards are scientists. Science is all about trying to understand how everything works, after all.
Non-wizard scientists would probably only be present if magic couldn't be practiced by everyone.

>I'm retarded
ftfy

What do we even need scientists for? If you want to know something just read a book.

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You understand who writes those books, right? Or produces the information to put in said books? You just pretending to be retard, right?

>My view on scientists is that wizards are scientists. Science is all about trying to understand how everything works, after all.

Or equally, scientists are wizards. Isaac Newton was an alchemist and plenty of other scientists had pursuits that we would consider magic today, but "magic" is just the science that ended up not working.

What if you want to know something that isn't in the book? Like how to cure cancer, or build an artificial intelligence, or colonize other worlds or something?

If anything, we need more scientists now than ever, because the things that have not yet been discovered are more complex than they were in the past.

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Praise the Omnissiah!

The are an integral part of any adventuring party.

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Scientists are people who actually figure out how shit works, yes, even spells.

Wizards have 0 skill points regardless of supposed intelligence. The spark of magic robs you of your manhood, your wisdom and much of your humanity.

She either derives sadistic pleasure from watching people get torn apart by steel teeth or masochistic pleasure from taking cyber-knot on regular basis. Possibly both.

If you can build robotic combat units, why make them dogs. Vary up your combat unit potential. Have flying drones for air superiority, small attack "spider" robots to distract and overrun targets and attack from unexpected positons, and have them support larger, more frontal attack focused robots who have more combat ability beyond biting and some awkwardly mounted back guns.

Also wear a fuggin helmet

Indistinguishable from magic-users.

Heh.

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I mean, we're people too. Just because we wear labcoats at work doesn't mean we have to be stereotypical outside of it.

I do like to imagine how Indy's students see him, though. If they know about his adventures he becomes Best Prof.
One of my characters was a historian who took the Indy approach. He was a Lore Bard who decided that history wasn't seen as cool because it wasn't as dramatic as the stories, so he attempts to shape events around him into something suitably epic to write books about. Signed up to a not!Crusade and protected their leader against assassins so he could live or die at a dramatic battle, etcetera. Reluctant to take a frontline role, though, because it's not good for your career if people think you're just talking yourself up.

>I mean, we're people too
No you're not. Stop pretending.

You tell em fellow human.

Damn, we've been found out

Nothing gets by me

>Give me Gregor Mendels

He lived boring safe live of a monk.

He made his discoveries because he told the guy monastery hired as a gardener about his theories and the gardener helped the plants to grow according to theory when Gregor wasn’t looking.

A love for their subject.

The people here seem to forget that science is, if we ingnore geting your results published, 49% repetitive manual labor, 49% boring scripting and hoping your computing intensive process terminates with 0.

Don’t fall for the science meme kids. Don’t make the same mistake as me. Learn a trade.

What kind of question even is that? "What's your stance on people with a doctorate?" "What's your stance on academia?" "What's your stance on people who receive research grants?"

Well? Whats your stance on them?

No sense of right and wrong.

Stop shilling MiA, please keep the discussion on the respective board. Please.

OP here. I literally did nothing of the sort. I post a picture with no context and ask a question. Not my fault other people jump in and bring it to attention

I doubt anybody buys that

No sense of right and wrong

Faggot doesn't even know who Bondrewd is.

Wow.

Oh I know who he is, I just didn't put context to the picture beyond "scientist"

Well, they are people+knowledge+autism, in a zero sum gamee, so the more knowledge and autism the less people they are or the more people and autism the less they actually know about stuff and just like hard task that they will use to feel better about themselves, or people and knowledge in which case you get 80% of scientist.

As you will see, usually people play scientist on accordance to their knowledge to the point where their knowledge is what defines their character. So a physicist will be a man in his 40s trying to find about "dem secrets of the universe", a biologist will be a girl with strong ecologist/naturalist tendencies, a mathematician will be either a 30s man trying to "order everything" or a 20s man obsesed with chaos... and so on.

The worst part is that I would critize this If I didn't see these patterns myself in real life, althought you can say that 80% are there for a job the 20% is from where the tropes people from a certain field gets.

In addition because yes, when we get to engineers the ammount of people who simply don't give a fuck and have only vague ideas of what they are going to do next is astounding in comparaison.

MiA is pretty fucking Veeky Forums content-wise, though.

Wolf Stance

Rule #1 scientists are not engineers
if you want a tinkerer, have it be a tinkerer, if you call it a scientist I expect sciencing

Whats better to have as a party member? A engineer or a scientist?

You don't an engineer giving medicine to people thought, or making interspecies hybrids, or making an ecosystem go wild with plagues, or employing highly precise optical equipment, or making non-linear predictive models...

So I would say that scientist can tinker, and they do it a lot, is just that they don't do it for the masses except for some cases.

Engineer. Actually, a Mechanic would be most practical, but an Engineer brings a lot to the table too.

Most scientists are engineers.
Few engineers are scientists.

Once saw one bite the head off a toddler and slurp it like an off-brand gogurt. Never trusted them since.

I know two, their both commies. So pretty bad.

I'm playing one

He stills all the superhero genomes.

Always gets made when the GM puts magic enemies in the way.

>Whats better to have as a party member? A engineer or a scientist?

It depends on the adventure and the ammount of autism the GM can bring to the table.

The "just 4fun guyz" stick to engineers upfront, pragmatic mindsets that only require a dice and a wish are straight forward enough and can make everything, from science to engineering without actually mattering their knowledge at all. For example: Killjoys and their "we the nerdszxD!"(God that series are so fucking the room level of bad that become enjoyable)

If the master is autist enough get an scientist, as points out, a scientist knows about the theoretical stuff and while he might not be the most efficient at the task his theoretical knowledge lets him make much more than an engineer, and anyway you are already in a party of special people so try to aim for people who can make special things.

Every time I try to help people with real science they say "your not tg" or "your not British enough in your humor" and either don't understand or act like total faggots.

Fuck you guys, I'll keep role playing with my science bros and you morons can suck your own yuneducated dicks.

If you don't have a vial of ferrofluid in your car, a bottle of Nital in your basement, or a stereo microscope in your study then eat my dick you 19 year old asshole.

Mods should stop posting so much... and go jack of to your Drizzt/Drake posters on your moms wall

>Non-wizard scientists would probably only be present if magic couldn't be practiced by everyone.
I mean, in the present day, we have experimental, theoretical, and computational scientists. There's no reason that every seeker of knowledge would be capable of--or necessarily interested in--casting.

They should run the show. Fuck politicians.

>Blurred lines make fuzzy pictures
"Scientists" get paid to try and engineer something (for example, TiNb superconducting thin films). Engineers get paid to deliver what they know works (cryogenic superconducting cables).

Just because the engineer gets paid (and laid) 10x more doesn't discredit the scientist. It's just not 1780 anymore, Bernoulli.

This question is summed up - was Bernoulli a scientist or engineer? Same old argument, now in Veeky Forums technicolor!

Ok but no. Best engineering management are generally good engineers but not super good.

"Scientist Management" doesn't exist because cats can't be herded.

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The question is invalid, in 1780 you could study natural sciences which included the acumulated knowledge of chemistry, physics, math and biology and call it a day, so a scientist could be an engineer and an engineer an scientist if the guy was willing and intelligent enough to be up for the task.

IRL or on the table? I agree that the number of PEs who make dumb calls or are not conservative enough scares me.

On the table I would play an engineer opposite to IRL; "Oh you want a bridge or battery? Well I need to also build some hydraulic suits for my iron-men so I will use cables without minimum necessary yield strength or not calculate the Tafel slopes properly for anode polarization rates... and sorry I just killed 10,000 people but my iron-men suits are bad as fuck".

I concur and appreciate your intellect user

I wish everyone on Veeky Forums was

1. Forgotten Realms nerd
2. Science major
3. Engineering masters
4. Destiny 2 lvl 300+
5. Cool to drink with
6. Non-druggy
7. Married with well tempered children
8. Not from London

But we all can't have our cake and fuck it too

sorta the traditionalist way of thinking, in my setting, science is still pretty new and while many kingdoms and alliances can see the future benefit, magic is still top dog. Common folk aren't keen on this science bullshit either but a few of them are starting to get around thanks to scientists claiming science as "the people's magic" since proper magical studies cost an arm and a leg and usually a nobleman's past time. while training under a witch in one of the great Witchdom's would be cheaper, no one outside of those infernal countries would become a witch

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If a wizard studies magic using the scientific method and magic is a natural force in the universe, aren't they a scientist? I don't get the whole magic vs. science angle. Sorcerers vs. science yeah...

What class and race would work best for Bonedrewd in 5E?

you got me there. the first scientists or naturalists could've crimped off the magic method and tried to apply it on things not of the aether/heavens

they have to be excellent fathers, but then, the crazier the better.

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Nope.

Because there is no way you can apply the scientific method to magic, either that or magic stops being magic and just become a natural force in the universe.

m8, if you can always get the same effect by performing the same actions, then there are laws dictating the process which can be explored with science. That goes for magic as well.

Even if magic acts based on an entirely separate set of laws than reality, those laws still exist and can be explored. It's how new spells are developed and old ones are improved or extrapolated ons.

Could frame it as the alchemy vs chemistry approach. Alchemy is studying the world though the lens of symbolism whereas chemistry is studying it through the lens of reaction.

what you're describing is doctors, bio-engineers, nio-engineers again, optic egineers and analysts respectively, the doctor and analyst being the only ones that aren't engineers and the analyst being the only one I would describe as a scientist
Science is about experimenting and archiving, the accumulation of knowledge

It'd be quite a feat coming up with a non-causal magic system that works in such a way that the traditional western epistomology is useless and with a believable alternative that does work
by all means I encourage you to try

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I have no idea how'd you'd go about crafting such a system, since the idea of a research method and practice of something being entirely non-linear and in symbology is way outside my culture. But wasn't ancient Zoroastrianism like that?
And wouldnt a system like that just end up being handwaved as certain mindsets or emotions trigger magical reactions rather than any poke with stick method.

It needs to be something that can't be tested in an artificial setting, kind of like a lot of psychology and anthropology stuff ends up being non-reproducable. But still something that can be derived from a set of rules.

Mindsets and emotions are good, since they're unique and can't be triggered on purpose. Another is a language that evolves over time like a dialect and spells become more focused on the kind of thing they're typically used for.

Adding rules and discovering them are just part of the process.

Those rules have to be something that be measured, replicable and universal. Magic does not do that and when it does, When your magic is something that only a few people do for magical reasons then its purely magic when your magic is not something that can be measured(for example; how much energy are you creating and from where its coming) then it's just magic and when your magic depends on "chaotic energies" then its not something you can replicate and therefore not science.

And usually the more you end up asking these questions we either come more and more close to reality or a systematic way to introduce energy into the universe, the latter being a revolutionary change in magnitude(why even care with agriculture when you can create food out of nothing, why care about medicine when shit just heals itself) that would result in something akind to transhumanity or posthumanity.

And then it stops being magic in any sense of the word.

What about pairing up science guys with mages/wizards?

Wat/Wat'll happen?

A bioengineer will know about biomolecules and genetics but god forbids that he touches taxonomy or zoology to even know about ecosystem or interspecies interactions, for that you want a specialized biologist.

When you want to take really precise measures you don't put a optic engineer on the line, you put physicists that had to break their ass of in university learning what precision is and how to achieve instead of just working with aproximations.

Doctors are scientists, is just that they fall under the applied sciences.

Is true that science is about finding and collecting knowledge but in that process scientists have to design their own experiments(and devices too) and keep engineers away with a stick unless they trust that the engineer has been around enough with science subjects to know how many variables should be taken into account and how to measure them(some PhDs have engineering backgrounds)

>Wat/Wat'll happen?

cthulhutech

>I don't get the whole magic vs. science angle
The basic premise is quite fucked, yes.

Doesn't matter, it's still a matter of systematically figuring out how reality works. Alchemy is (in modern terms) a bunch of old theories that turned out to be incorrect.

>a non-causal magic system
If it's truly non-causal then it isn't much of a system there. Shit just happens for literally no reason. And since there's no cause for what happens, there's no reason to try and practice magic either, since you cannot influence the effects. I guess you could try to study it anyway in the hopes of finding a system there, but any such finding would of course be false.

Psychology and anthropology are still sciences, even if they are doing it hard mode. Astrophysicists also tend to have problems with controlled experiments, to take a "hard" science.

>when your magic is not something that can be measured(for example; how much energy are you creating and from where its coming)

If it has an actual effect then that effect can be measured. If it can't be measured, then it had no effect, ie it doesn't exist. Claiming you cna't because the whole idea of magic collapses if you can, well, it might be time to come up with a better idea of magic then, one that doesn't crumble to dust the moment someone wants a better explanation for anything than "because reasons".

>when your magic depends on "chaotic energies" then its not something you can replicate and therefore not science.

The mathematicians sorted out chaotic phenomena a long time ago. Science has no issues studying such. A gas is inherently a chaotic system. Turbulent motions of liquids are chaotic things, studied by science. A simple double rod pendulum is a chaotic system. And in all cases it's been found that they obey a number of laws, both in the grand scheme of things (like the ideal gas law) and in minute details (the motion of any molecule in that gas being largely just a matter of the usual motion and collision mechanics for anything).