/40k/ - Warhammer 40,000 General

nth for Best boy Dorn

I'm glad I didn't get a codex yet. Looking at the Guard one and looking at the feelings coming out of the AM camp

Wasn't Pete, but the 40k Facebook page

Modified that admech list around a bit. I really wanted to bring the Knight even tho it isnt optimal.

Not only is that wildly less credible, but it's still unsourced.

Are there any sites that sell heads like the ones on Renegade enforcers? Looking for some to build my renegades now that the Guard codex is coming out.

That is the happiest Symbol of Khorne i have ever seen

Is it possible to have a good Tyranid build without any horde units?

Eg, all big bugs.

>talking to a buddy at my flgs
>"I love the way my knight performs but I wish it would survive past turn two or three"
>"Well maybe if you didn't walk it in front of your opponent's entire army"
I'm sorry is there a different way I'm supposed to play this game?

...

Kind of, you'll want at least some genestealers though.

Puppets War has some stylized skulls.

So is something like Nidzilla with a small amount genestealer troops good? Can I swap them out to warriors or something?

no real idea what you are talking about, but haven't Thousand Sons already happened?
and shouldn't be Slaanesh next then?

>but haven't Thousand Sons already happened? No, currently it's.
Space Marines
CSM (excluding T'Sons and Death Guard)
Grey Knights
Death Guard
AdMech
Imperial Guard
CW Eldar & Nids before the end of November.

Genestealers are better than warriors unless you need synapse.

It was like early mid august
Not really in the mood to dig that far back for it

Have orks ever been balanced and competitive?

Brother.

>Balanced
In 4th I guess.
>Competitive
5th

Depends, if that's how you're playing then you should reconsider the synergy between your Jack and Warcaster as well as your focus management.

Would this list be considered to be WAAC when the Codex drops, Veeky Forums?

Battalion Detachment +3CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [23 PL, 414pts]
-----HQ
----------Company Commander [3 PL, 36pts]
---------------Boltgun, Power Axe
----------Company Commander [3 PL, 36pts]
---------------Boltgun, Power Axe
-----Troops
----------Conscripts [4 PL, 90pts]
---------------30x Conscript
----------Conscripts [3 PL, 60pts]
---------------20x Conscript
----------Conscripts [3 PL, 60pts]
---------------20x Conscript
----------Conscripts [3 PL, 60pts]
---------------20x Conscript
-----Elites
----------Commissar [2 PL, 36pts]
---------------Boltgun, Power Axe
----------Commissar [2 PL, 36pts]
---------------Boltgun, Power Axe

Battalion Detachment +3CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [23 PL, 414pts]
-----HQ
----------Company Commander [3 PL, 36pts]
---------------Boltgun, Power Axe
----------Company Commander [3 PL, 36pts]
---------------Boltgun, Power Axe
-----Troops
----------Conscripts [4 PL, 90pts]
---------------30x Conscript
----------Conscripts [3 PL, 60pts]
---------------20x Conscript
----------Conscripts [3 PL, 60pts]
---------------20x Conscript
----------Conscripts [3 PL, 60pts]
---------------20x Conscript
-----Elites
----------Commissar [2 PL, 36pts]
---------------Boltgun, Power Axe
----------Commissar [2 PL, 36pts]
---------------Boltgun, Power Axe

Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [70 PL, 1170pts]
-----HQ
----------Tank Commander (Demolisher) [13 PL, 243pts]
---------------Demolisher Siege Cannon, Lascannon, Heavy Bolters
----------Tank Commander (Demolisher) [13 PL, 243pts]
---------------Demolisher Siege Cannon, Lascannon, Heavy Bolters
-----Heavy Support
----------Leman Russ Exterminator [11 PL, 171pts]
---------------Exterminator Autocannon, Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolters
----------Leman Russ Exterminator [11 PL, 171pts]
---------------Exterminator Autocannon, Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolters
----------Leman Russ Exterminator [11 PL, 171pts]
---------------Exterminator Autocannon, Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolters
----------Leman Russ Exterminator [11 PL, 171pts]
---------------Exterminator Autocannon, Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolters

oh, ok (kinda oversaw, that Sons aren't in the curent codec, didn't got them yet)
either way, has anyone any idea how long will this
games-workshop.com/de-AT/Talons-of-the-Emperor-ENG
be available?
not really necessary, but I would make a Slaanesh pimpwagon out of the Landraider and Sisters

If you're asking. You're fine.
>using two posts and 50 lines for a list
Stop

Is this the new "sixty multi-meltas?"

How to fix 40k.
Template weapons now add 2 for every unit in the squad you're shooting. 30 man Boyz squad? That flamer is now 6+ d6 hits.

>some autist just sits around editing dorn/alpharius reaction memes
God, Hhg brought us some funny stuff

First of all, the wording you're looking for is "models in a unit" not "units in a squad".

Second of all, fuck you. Horde armies are supposed to be able to soak shit, that's the whole point.

the problem is that there's no points efficient way to clear a hoard of conscripts. all answers are more expensive than the squad they're trying to kill

Did Guard get any cost reductions/increases in their Codex? I want to know if I've going to be facing more or less units when it drops.

all points changes were decreases

Fuck. Any specifics? I know the Russ is now 10 points cheaper.

Yes, because conscripts are overpowered, not everything else is too weak. The easiest way to nerf scripts- since platoon setup or no regiment or no orders or no commissar if the result is over 15 or bumping Guard bodies all a point, etc. is just to give them a damn 6+. If that actually happened they'd be a lot more manageable, while still useful

It's almost like outnumbering your enemy makes it harder for them to kill everyone, wow

The whole reason you take blobs is to get more quantity over quality for everything. More wounds, more shots, more attacks. The difference between chewing through 20 infantry and 20 wounds on a monster or tank is that blobs take up more space and their damage output goes down with every wound instead of only at intervals

>models in a unit
Yeah. That's what I meant.

The Actual problem with hordes is they are immune to their check, leadership. Kill 7 of a 10 man squad of tac marines and you can get like 30 points of models to run away maybe. Kill 20 of a 30 man squad of conscripts and the commissar just domes a 3 pt dude.

>196 infantry models

Paint 'em, faggot.

A big issue in that example is that AT weapons are very good at killing large things, while AH weapons aren't. Templates and blasts don't hit enough dudes. Also hordes don't care about morale because of all the ways they can mitigate it. They're supposed weaknesses aren't really weaknesses.

That's not a hordes issue, that's a Conscripts issue.

That issue applies to orks too. Murder 20boyz? They take d3 mortals that they can FNP away.

>I killed 20 guys easily
>It's unfair because I don't get the other 10 for free

I play Orks, not guard, but I'm also immune to morale usually. Blobs simply would not work if what you're proposing was common. Why the fuck would I bother with horses at all if their numbers will only be used against them?

If your force is entirely based, painted and ready to rumble, is it wrong to refuse to play against the gray tide?

Also, what's your stance on playing against kids or those obviously younger than you, or those very new to the game. Is mercy a thing?

That's not a Conscripts issue, it's a Commissar issue. You'd have the same problem fighting 6 squads of 10 than you would fighting 2 squads of 30.

Actually, you'd have MORE of one, since those squads are 1) higher BS and 2) divided into more units, thus increasing the chances of overkill.

To a degree, yeah. It's the same annoying thing with Ld in 7th when it was this whole big check/balance but all the armies (except a certain few wildly underpowered) that actually cared had ways of negating it entirely.

Commissars would be fine with -5 and kill one guy, or a reroll, or whatever, but when my bloodthirster just turned a dozen of farmer Ted's closest friends into a fine pink mist without a thought, I'm calling bullshit that the commissar braining some dude across the line will stop him and the other 16 inexperienced locals from turning tail

>Horses

Hordes*

If you were fighting 2 Squads of 30 then they would lose 2 to morale, fighting 6 Squads on 10 they would lose 6.

Thinking of an all Nob waagh
Y/Y?

Food for thought: big Choppas are just melee Deffguns

No. Frankly pure conscripts was never good, and it's now pretty ass without reliable orders. Conscripts are still very good for screening and can be surprisingly dangerous at times but they aren't going to cut it as the core of your offense.

Super heavies got cheaper by 40 points. Russes 10. Valkyries 20. Veteran and Scions plasmas went up by 6.

depends on the reason. If it is a gray tide because he started a short time ago, is literally unable to paint or stuff like that, then no. If he has the time and ability to paint then i would still fight him, but i could understand if you would decline a game against a gray tide under this circumstances

Small games (

I'm cool with stuff that circumvents leadership. But there isn't an efficient way to handle hordes tight now. There is high str, high AP multi damage weaponry to handle tanks and mcdonald. The only way to handle hordes is shoot it with another horde

Do it. Do everything. You really think you're ever going to stop?

>But there isn't an efficient way to handle hordes tight now.

Even pask in a punisher isn't that good at killing conscripts.

There's only one way to handle a Mcdonald

4 more men is not that much of a difference, user.

The point is that Commissars are the lynchpin to Guard Blob. Because their morale power is AoE they can completely ruin the morale mechanic for a very large number of units nearby, no matter what they are.

Anons screeching about conscripts need to get their shit together and realize that conscripts are NOTHING without the man in the red sash.

HE is the true power.

Only have to spend double what it cost to get the hoard squad to put a dent in it. How efficient. Also even with double shooting a punisher kills about 9 guardsmen.

>The only way to handle hordes is shoot it with another horde

Except for, you know, anything with a gatling gun mounted to it.

You've really gotta get your head out of older editions. There are no templates anymore. Thank shells don't spread into clouds and flamethrowers don't cut through entire crowds anymore.

>kills 10 at best
No, it's not. 6+ is the change I'm starting to agree with, mathematically it does make them a lot weaker. Or have like a thing where they get no save against high S weapons to simulate the weakness of civilian armor

>5 Sternguard with stormbolters
>40 shots at 12'' for 90 points
>Decent amount of close combat attacks as well

even with firing twice the punisher Gatling cannon does 8.888... wounds to a conscript horde.

You're the one that really needs to get their head out of older editions. A 40 shot punisher cannon at BS4+ for instance only kills about 9 guardsmen, previously it would have killed around 17. The new to wound table and them getting 5+ armor saves makes the more durable then they were previously.

>Is mercy a thing?
For new players, No. But let them know what's going on in your head. Ask them what they are planning. Help them work through things that might go wrong and anticipate issues that arise.
For kids, don't try to win. Try to make an enjoyable experience. Play for big, cool moments where entire units are blown off the table or one dude makes 8 impossible saves. Have fun playing the game with them.

Meant 20 shots. I might be too tired for numbers

It's probably the best option aside from massed HB HWT's.

At full spate it's a 176 point vehicle, 178 if you spring for the storm bolter. Assuming you're not an idiot and stay out of rank fire range, you can shit out 51 S4 shots every turn, of which 9 have AP-1.

Assuming you don't move:
>42 AP- shots
>21 hits
>14 wounds
>9.333 unsaved wounds

>9 AP-1 shots
>4.5 hits
>3 wounds
>2.5 unsaved wounds

Making about 12 in total, or 36 points of conscripts. It won't kill it's points in men. Nothing in the GAME is that much of a horde muncher, and that's kinda the point. But it'll put out enough pain that a horde army can't fight it effectively.

>Horde mulchers shouldn't mulch hordes cause they are MY hordes
And I'd like meltaguns to bounce off my tanks

>Except for, you know, anything with a gatling gun mounted to it.
nigger what? dual firing punisher gatling does less than 10 wounds. The only weapon that reliably kills hordes to my knowledge is the dual grav flux, because it's the only damn weapon that acts like it should with hordes: fuck ton of dudes means fuck ton of shots.

The point of units like conscripts isn't to fight effectively though, it's to hold ground and soak fire.

Again, this sounds like a conscript problem and not a horde problem in general. I've seen my Boyz get casually swept off the board by gunlines too many times to accept the idea that hordes are inherently broken.

And a single meltagun is no longer able to one-shot any tank, so they kinda do bounce off tanks actually.

>box of 7
>3/7 (42%) have mouthbelly

How many boyz are you bringing? Even conscripts aren't that bad when it's just one unit of them, it's once people start bringing 3 or 4 units of 30 that they start becoming a problem. Last I heard green tide is just as bad atm.

>the only thing that kills it efficiently
Look at the edition, RIP AND TEAR is one of the best ways to do it

Yeah it's pretty much just conscripts and their ilk. Boyz are twice the cost for the same survivability.

>mouth belly
Well when you put it that way, yeah it sounds dumb.
"Have you seen the new gut maw DG?"
See?

>Nothing in the GAME is that much of a horde muncher, and that's kinda the point
not entirely true, and that "being the point" is goddamn bullshit and everyone but horde spammers knows it. the fact that a fucking death strike missile, a god damn ICBM, or massive fucking flamers like on land raider redeemer is complete bullshit.

Punisher cannons have never had AP. At least have your facts straight.

I generally run 2 blobs of 30 (with mostly shootas because I play bad moons and like it fluffy). Perhaps it's just my local meta, but everyone seems to have some kind of ap and that just makes my guys disappear. I probably "should" run with a KFF nearby but I don't usually because it seems kind of dickish.

They'll only kill 5 dudes on average in shooting. 110 points total for power mauls, you kill an additional 6. Not great.

Trying to learn to play with three other new players who don't really know how to read rules. As the only real "reader" of the group, I'm also the "teacher/ref" for most of the friendly games.

A thing comes up today: A death company dreadnaught fired it's 1-shot melta into a group of nobz, and scores a hit, a wound, and beats the armor save to deal 6 damage.

Player 1 says that the 6 damage kills three nobs (2W each)
Player 2 says that because it was one attack, one nob took all 6 damage, and the 4 leftover are lost, only mortal wounds carry over to other models. Good rolling melta was overkill.

Again, I am also a newfag teaching newfags. I felt like player 2 was right, but had them roll off anyway. Which one was right, though?

Player 2 was right. Damage does not spill over unless it's a mortal wound.

Player 2 is right
Only spills over when it specifically states, like with mortals. Otherwise, pure overkill

Never lost against Ork green tide with GK though thanks to all the stormbolters, and those come with a melee weapon and shitty Smite tax which are useless against hordes.

For the dedicated reader you fucked up 12 pages of rules? The melta kills one nob, only mortal wounds overflow.

Player 2, rulebook states that wounds don't spill over unless they are mortal or otherwise specified

Wounds are assigned to a model
When that model fails its save, wounds are converted to damage.
6 damage all goes to one model. No spillover. Player 2 correct.

Yeah, cunt, those Putrid Gutmaw will look real impressive next to your Citadel Foetid Bloat-drones™ and Myphitic Blight-haulers™.

Does anyone know the physic power in Codex: Deathguard where you roll a d6 for every model in a unit and if it's larger than that model's strength is receives a mortal wound?

that halves conscripts, if not worse

even zerkers are only able to kill 2 to 3 conscripts per turn under normal circumstances, which means they're going to have to spend a couple turns just to wipe out the scripts, which means the scripts are doing their job anyways.