/HHG/ Horus Heresy General

Master Crafted Miniatures has some.

If FW ever decides to use 8th as a basis for HH, they could still make pretty significant changes. I mean, 30k plays pretty differently from 7th ed. 40k just due to a few rules differences, like not everything scoring and more restrictions on list-building.

They'd have to go farther to make 8th work well, imo. It seems to work best for smaller games than 30k usually prefers, yet it doesn’t have the detail we want. They could try…

>Remove the rerolls and generic buffs. They can be replaced by Legiones Astartes rules and 30k-specific warlord traits (I’m not even sure we need warlord traits on top of LA rules, provenances, etc.).
>Cover needs to cover more. I like the way it modifies to hit rolls, it just has to be better than it currently is.
>You get a +1 to wound vehicles from the rear 90 degree arc unless it has a “heavy vehicle” rule (in WWII, heavy tanks were the ones with good all-around armor).
>Potentially: vehicles with the “light vehicle” rule also give that +1 to wound if hit from the side 90 degree arcs.
>Dunno what to do about reserves but they need more detail. That said, 30k is too harsh on reserves, especially in flyers, so let’s find a happy medium.
>FW could reintroduce templates. They do slow the game down, though. I’m torn.

thanks, but I'm looking specifically for flat ones and that place only had scaly or "bumpy" ones.

BS represents skill to hit
Line of sight represents visual recognition of the target
Shooting roll represents an attempt to make an effective hit on the target, not whether or not a salvo hits
To wound roll represents whether or not the shot penetrates and harms the target

So yes, a Space Marine will be able to visually recognize a Grot and a Land Raider with equal precision and finesse. But shooting at them presents different challenges which can be roughly summed up as 'its not whether or not the shot hits, its whether or not the shot hits where it needs to'. The shooting roll represents whether or not it makes contact with the vital weakpoint that the Space Marine is trained to target. The wound roll represents where or not that contact penetrates. The save roll represents whether or not the round is stopped, deflected, or bounces off.

You say that like all Marines aren't gay.

Is there any way to fix Rampagers? They look cool as fuck with their weapons chained to them and a representation of the Butcher's Nails but I'd rather take a regular chainaxe tactical squad than them for effectiveness. And they don't even have Rampage.

You used a ton of words while failing to answer the post you responded to.

>the big guy has tiny weak points
Not necessarily. That's true of some creatures but that's represented by toughness and saves. You're just making weird headcanon non-arguments to justify your bias. It doesn't make any sense that a little target and a big target take the same amount of skill to shoot. BS is a gamist abstraction and there's nothing inherently wrong with that.

>You used a ton of words while failing to answer the post you responded to.

I attempted to explain why its logical that they are both equally easy to hit.

>That's true of some creatures but that's represented by toughness and saves. You're just making weird headcanon non-arguments to justify your bias.

And you're complaining about using a ruleset made arbitrarily by a British corporation on a chink image board for MAGA trolls without investing any imagination into a toy wargame where the point is to use your imagination to visualize how a Space Marine is supposed to matter in the year 32,000 AD.

You're of course free to dismiss me as biased. And I'm free to dismiss you as being abnormally anal about what does and does not fit into your realm of logic.

Both of you are wrong.

Whatever happened to the guy who made these OP images?

The spiked ones might look good on SoH.

>BS represents skill to hit

So does WS.

Are volkite weapons good?

Wow.

I'm not the one who has a problem with 8e rules and saw the need to bitch about them. If you want to get down to "this don't make no sense" arguments, there's a ton of subject matter in previous editions as well.

In large numbers, since they lack AP.

Now hold on a second. What exactly is gay about a fraternity of large, muscular men that reproduce by filling adolescent boys with gene-sees?

Nothing at all.
Nothing at all...
Nothing at all...
Nothing at all...

To add on to this, the only marine has been confirmed to have ever fucked a girl was a Space Wolf, thus making them the least gay marines of all.

>fucking girls
>not gay
>implying

He was drunk and was thinking she is a guy so doesn't count.

>the only marine has been confirmed to have ever fucked a girl
How was it confirmed? Is there video evidence?

5th edition codex has a space wolf hitting on a trap

WS also represents skill to not get hit

>Obsessed with wolves
>Sometimes turn into wolves
>Name all of their stuff after wolves and wolf body parts
Space Wolves are the 40k equivalent of a crazy cat lady.

Let's give them a break; they're not overly wolfy in 30k. They do have at least one cartoonishly stupid piece of fluff - frost weapons - but they're a far cry from the charicature they've become in 40k.

All the Primarchs are probably gay.I mean we have

:two dark and broody goths

:a self-described wolf

:a JRPG villain

:a beautiful and radiant angel

:a giant friendly black guy

:a thin pale hooded dude with a huge "scythe"

:a wannabe Roman statesman

:a man who spends his time off wrapped in a "pain glove" made of black leather

:a grease monkey with metal hands

:a terrifying rageoholic

:an aloof and troubled knight

:a passionate, yet repressed holy man

:a Mongolian biker

:a guy with Greek iconography everywhere who makes his entire Legion look like him

and of course, a pair of Egyptian demigods.

So what do all the Inv. saves from agility, shields, etc. represent?

They represent the fact that having a bunch of WS increasing effects when defending would be shit.

Why? We already have BS modifiers.

I guess I just don't see the big issue, when there's plenty of games that manage just fine with fixed rolls in close combat.

Get off Curzefag.

>We already have BS modifiers
Which are generally few and far between. The more common way to represent improved marksmanship is by making things twin-linked just like most improvements in ability to hit enemies are by allowing rerolls to hit (eg. master-crafted weapons).

Shields are represented by simple invulnerable saves since they can block from shooting or from melee attacks. Smaller or weaker shields like combat shields and boarding shields offer less protection from shooting while a storm shield which is essentially the shield equivalent to a power weapon is much more powerful and capable of protecting one much more.

>Which are generally few and far between. The more common way to represent improved marksmanship is by making things twin-linked just like most improvements in ability to hit enemies are by allowing rerolls to hit (eg. master-crafted weapons).

Not in 8th.

>Shields are represented by simple invulnerable saves since they can block from shooting or from melee attacks.

So, against shooting, you get 1 form of protection, while in CC you get several. Would think it's harder to hit someone with a gun from afar than with a piece of 2x4 up close.

>Not in 8th.
Another reason why 8th is retarded.

>So, against shooting, you get 1 form of protection
You get three. You get the fact that your opponent could simply miss (ballistic skill), invulnerable saves due to reflexes or shields, or cover saves due to being naturally sneaky and being in cover. Against melee you get two, weapon skill which is kind of like an opposed test, and invulnerable saves due to reflexes or shields.

Outside of those cases the shot hits the target, and if the target doesn't take damage it is simply due to the fact that they were too tough for it to cause meaningful damage (failed wound roll or FnP) or it didn't penetrate their armour (successful armour save).

>Would think it's harder to hit someone with a gun from afar than with a piece of 2x4 up close.
The guy you are hitting with a 2x4 has his own 2x4 and maybe even a plywood shield, meanwhile the gun you are shooting with can fire hundreds of rounds a minute. Besides sometimes hitting someone with a sword is easier than hitting them with a gun, primarily when you are much more skilled. After all do you think an olympic fencer would have much difficulty racking up points in a match against a random guy with an epee?

However this is the smallest flaw the biggest flaws are
>Vehicles are retarded
>Positioning is meaningless
>Templates were removed

I think the mass updates and compiling armies into indexes is probably an overall good idea, I think comprehensive updates are a good idea, but I also think that 8th edition has has gone too far in simplifying 40k to the point where much tactical depth has been lost and and the logic of the game often seems dumb as shit (eg. valkyries fighting tanks in close combat and guardsmen hitting space marine captains as well as they hit Tau who have never even held a knife).

>Another reason why 8th is retarded.

So 8th is retarded for not modifying your to hit rolls at the same time it's retarded for modifying your to hit rolls? Got it.

>the fact that your opponent could simply miss

Then why isn't that enough for fixed WS?

>invulnerable saves due to reflexes or shields, or cover saves due to being naturally sneaky and being in cover.

You only get one save.

>After all do you think an olympic fencer would have much difficulty racking up points in a match against a random guy with an epee?

Olympic fencing has nothing to do with actual close combat. Just because you poke someone with a bendy stick doesn't mean they stop hitting you.

>Vehicles are retarded
>Positioning is meaningless

I don't see what's different. Bikes and big robots been able to measure from any point on their models and fire 360, regardless how they're facing or if their guns are fixed to a certain position or not, and they have the same armour all around.

>Templates were removed

Yes, and? Plenty of games manage perfectly well without templates. At least we don't have to autistically measure every model for maximum coherency.

>I don't see what's different. Bikes and big robots been able to measure from any point on their models and fire 360, regardless how they're facing or if their guns are fixed to a certain position or not, and they have the same armour all around.
I don't see what that has to do with my point?
>Vehicles can charge in assault
>Facing is gone meaning you don't need to worry about vehicle positioning
>Vehicles can charge into assault

>Bikes have the same armour all around
Which makes far more sense than vehicles having the same armour all around. Generally infantry armour is of largely uniform thickness, the front and back of modern armour generally uses the exact same plates.

>Yes, and?
It devalues positioning and gives horde armies a massive advantage. If I have a blob of 50 guardsmen or something I have little to no reason to ever space them out. If the enemy shoots at me with artillery or flamers it doesn't matter whether I am at maximum coherency or have organized my guardsmen into blocks of infantry like in the 18th century.

The primary changes devalue much of the complexity of the game since it throws positioning out of the window and wider awareness. Tank shocks could allow you to control enemy movement, now your best hope is to tarpit people with tanks. Positioning mattered to avoid losing 10 guardsmen to a single heavy flamer or to avoid someone sniping the back of your vehicle. There is no reason for me not to field guardsmen in blocks of soldiers with my tanks driving backwards.

>I don't see what that has to do with my point?

The simple fact that people who bitch about 8e vehicle rules turn a blind eye to all the times in previous editions where "vehicles" get to ignore all the rules for Vehicles. How is a bike not a vehicle? How is a stormsurge not a vehicle? Yet we're just fine with a bike firing around the corner from its back tire, or a sentinel getting locked in close combat.

>Which makes far more sense than vehicles having the same armour all around. Generally infantry armour is of largely uniform thickness, the front and back of modern armour generally uses the exact same plates.

But the bike isn't wearing infantry armour. Nor is the Riptide.

>It devalues positioning and gives horde armies a massive advantage.

So, it's nice that you don't have those anymore, as even conscripts are being reduced to 30 models tops, and have harder time using commands. And maybe now you can actually make use of all that cover, instead of preferring to spread your dudes out in the open to maximize coherency and not getting raped to death by few dozen blasts. And no more arguing over how many models are exactly under the blast, etc.

>Tank shocks

People barely even remember that rule exists.

>There is no reason for me not to field guardsmen in blocks of soldiers

Not like IG used to have rules that gave you benefits for having your models in firing lines. Not that you have regiments specifically doing that as part of their doctrines. Not that rows and rows of lasgunners doesn't fit the Guard.

Yeah, the game has really gone to shit.

>my tanks driving backwards.

Yes, and? My bikes can drive sideways if they like, nothing in the rules say they have to be pointing in the direction they're travelling.

Review my list please. WE 3000 points. Tacticals go in Kharybdises, Rampagers and Destroyer squads go in Dreadclaws.

WE Destroyer Special
Legiones Astartes

Praetor: Rite of War (The Crimson Path); bolt pistol; Paragon blade; digital lasers; iron halo 165

18 Tactical Space Marines: Tactical Sergeant (artificer armour; chainsword); 17 Tactical Space Marines; chainaxes 251

19 Tactical Space Marines: Tactical Sergeant (artificer armour; chainsword); 18 Tactical Space Marines; chainaxes 263

Apothecarion Detachment
• Apothecary: artificer armour; chainaxe 55
• Apothecary: artificer armour; chainaxe 55
• Apothecary: artificer armour; chainaxe 55

10 Destroyers: Destroyer Sergeant (artificer armour; chainaxe); 9 Destroyers; 2×missile launcher and suspensor web; chainaxes 310

10 Destroyers: Destroyer Sergeant (artificer armour; chainaxe); 9 Destroyers; 2×missile launcher and suspensor web; chainaxes 310

9 Rampagers: Rampager Champion (artificer armour; power fist); 8 Rampagers; 2×twin Falax blades; 2×barb-hook lash; 6×chainaxe 275

Anvillus Pattern Dreadclaw Drop Pod 115

Anvillus Pattern Dreadclaw Drop Pod 115

Anvillus Pattern Dreadclaw Drop Pod 115

Kharybdis Assault Claw 235

Kharybdis Assault Claw 235

Legion Cerberus Heavy Tank Destroyer: 2 sponson-mounted heavy bolters; armoured ceramite 440

2,994 points

I don't see much in the way of anti-tank and I feel the destroyers may be more useful by dropping the missile launchers and just acting as more shock troopers (chainaxes and rad grenades mean you are wounding marines on a 2+) and the saved points could be reinvested into giving your army some meltabombs or sergeant power fists.

However it is nice to see a list that isn't based around a 700 point death star or a 250+ point character who only has 3 or 4 wounds.

youtu.be/emYT8jgyyqQ

YouTuber Leakycheese noticed that Forge World's Legio Custodes army "deal" a) has an erroneous description ("Caladius" Grav-Carrier, and it leaves out the normal Caladius Grav-Tank) and b) costs MORE than if you buy everything separately because they don't give you the 9 GBP discount for buying three Jetbikes together.

consider me slain

>Horus Rising >>Galaxy in Flames>>Thousand Sons - Burning of Prospero>The Flight of the Eisenstein>Garro Novels

What next heretical senpaitachi? Fulgrim and Emperor children or White Scars and the Wolf King?

Who the fuck would buy this bundle in the first place?

>man who spends his time off wrapped in a "pain glove" made of black leather

Yes, and...?
GW and FW bundles are notoriously garbage, so how is this in some way revelatory?

Fuck off, Leakycheese. Go peddle your vids somewhere else.

They usually don't cost extra.

Any chance someone has a picture of a Custodes Carrier, the smaller one next to a Rhino?
I wish to commit Heresy

You mean the Coronus?

No, the smaller one. I don't know why I called it a Carrier.
Palas, I think?

>musicjinni.com/CHn3gEmLLXz/Legio-Custodes-Pallas-Grav-Attack-tank-Review-WH40K.html

About 1:15 onward.

Thanks user!
I'll check it when I wont murder my data usage

The trick to fixing Rampagers is to fix Caedare weapons.

Caedare Weapons
>Meteor Hammer- Stays the same
>Excoriator Chainaxe: Str+1 AP2 Specialist Weapon, Two-Handed, Shred, Unwieldy
>Twin Falax Blades: Stays the same
>Barb-Hook Lash: Str: As User, AP5. Type: Melee, Specialist Weapon, Fleshbane, rolls of 5+ to wound are AP3

Any Independent Character or Character may take a Caedare Weapon for 10 points.

In any case, here's how I "fixed" Chosen. I've redone a lot of the early legion units since they have fallen so behind - let me know if you want to see them.

Rampager Squads - 115 points

Rampager Chosen - WS5 BS4 S4 T4 W1 I4 A2 LD8 SV3+
Rampager Champion - WS5 BS4 S4 T4 W1 I4 A3 LD9 SV3+

Unit Composition
-4 Rampager Chosen
-1 Rampager Champion

Unit Type
Infantry (Character)

Wargear
-Power Armour
-Bolt Pistol
-Chainaxe
-Frag and Krak Grenades

Special Rules
-Legiones Astartes (World Eaters)
-Feels No Pain (6+)
-Berserker
-Scout

Berserker: During the Assault Phase, this unit’s Feels No Pain save is increased to a 5+ and it is Fearless.

Options:
Any model may exchange their chainaxe for one of the following:
Heavy Chainsword: +2 points per model
A Caedare Weapon: +5 points per model

Any model may exchange their bolt pistol for a Combat Shield: +2 points per model

One in five models may exchange their Chainaxe for a Power Weapon: 10 pts/model

Entire Squad may be equipped with jump packs - 40 points

All other options remain the same

>Make them WS 5
>Make them cheaper
>Give them access to caedere weapons for 5 points, heavy chainswords for free

My main criticisms
>Caedere weapons
Remove the pseudo rending on the barb-hook it makes falax blades pointless since against 3+ the barb hook is better and against 2+ excoriator is better. Also I would expand caedere weapons to all characters like Phoenix Spears, seems more reasonable for a World Eaters sergeant to have a random gladiatorial weapon than for a random Emperor's Children sergeant to be armed with a custodes/elite primarch guard weapon.

>Rampagers
Remove the berserker special rule, they aren't as far gone as red butchers yet so the FnP increase is unwarranted and fearless should generally be quite rare. I would suggest using stubborn or something else. Perhaps using hatred or furious charge to augment their power.

Beyond that I think it is good. Comparing them to charnabal sabre equipped palatine blades they seem comparable.
>Fully outkitted PBs cost 355 points, are WS 5 (pseudo WS 6), have rending melee weapons, and are equipped with jump packs
>Rampagers costing 305 points are WS 5, have AP 5 rending melee weapons, and are equipped with jump packs
Comparing the two units
>Mulching hordes
AP 5 gives Rampagers the edge
>WS 5 units
Sonic shriekers give PBs the edge
>Mobility
Scouts gives Rampagers the edge (minor)
>Survivability
6+ FnP gives Rampages the edge (minor)
>Balls to the wall
Universal access to power swords, lances, and phoenix spears gives PBs the edge
Overall I would say they are comparable.

>Remove the pseudo rending on the barb-hook it makes falax blades pointless since against 3+ the barb hook is better and against 2+ excoriator is better.

Appreciate the feedback! I figured that Falax blades would be more ideal for hordes due to the +1 Attack whereas the Barb-Hooks would be more anti-MEQ (potentially). I'll have to figure out how what to give the Barb-Hook instead to make it worth taking.

My thought was:
Meteor Hammer: Good vs monsters/vehicles/high T enemies
Excoriator: Good vs TEQ
Twin Falax Blades: Good vs Hordes/situationally good vs armor (genestealer effect)
Barb-Hook Lash: Good vs MEQ

>Also I would expand caedere weapons to all characters like Phoenix Spears, seems more reasonable for a World Eaters sergeant to have a random gladiatorial weapon than for a random Emperor's Children sergeant to be armed with a custodes/elite primarch guard weapon.

That's a wording issue on my part. I do say "Any Independent Character or Character may take a Caedare Weapon for 10 points." but I should switch it to what it says in the rulebook: "Any model with the Independent Character special rule or the Character type with the Legiones Astartes (World Eaters) special rule may exchange a chainsword or combat blade for a Caedare Weapon for 10 points."

>Remove the berserker special rule, they aren't as far gone as red butchers yet so the FnP increase is unwarranted and fearless should generally be quite rare. I would suggest using stubborn or something else. Perhaps using hatred or furious charge to augment their power.

For Berserkers, I think that removing the rule makes sense. In that stead, we can give them Furious Charge and Stubborn.

Again, thank you for the feedback. I don't get to play a ton so the rules still need some refining. Your suggestions helped make them a lot better.

Barb hook is already good against monstrous creatures, primarchs, custodes, and high toughness mechanicum dudes since it has fleshbane (meteor hammer is only wounding thallax and other T5 units on a 3+), meteor hammer should be used for killing well armed but poorly armoured marine units like raptors, palatine blades, assault veterans, etc since they strike before marines and wound marines on a 2+. A unit fully kitted out with meteor hammers should drop about 5 or 6 WS 5 marines on the charge at I 5, leaving only 4 or 5 to retaliate inflicting 3 casualties on the world eaters on average (assuming WS 5 with power swords).

>For Berserkers, I think that removing the rule makes sense. In that stead, we can give them Furious Charge and Stubborn.
Two things to note are that furious charge creates both internal and external imbalance. Internally it unbalances the weapons by allowing anyone to wound marines on a 3+ and excoriator axes to wound marines on a 2+, while meteor hammers and barb-hooks both wound T 5 on a 2+ now. Externally using the EC comparison the advantages of the World Eaters begin to pile up to the point where it might warrant a point increase to say 130 or 140 base, since without those rules a similar unit is 30 points cheaper than the EC and overall a better unit (ignoring excluded options like power weapons). That 30 point difference is acceptable when considering LA rules, rites of war, and additional options, but once you add furious charge to the mix it becomes a bit excessive.

Read Cybernetica. Damn, why the hell do Mechanicum and Dark Mechanicum have to be so awesome but get so little screentime? They did win in this book, at last. Hoping the "Imp Fists VS. Mars" hints won't just become more plotstomping.

Because Mechanicum is not Marines and have no Primarch.
At least Mechanicum is awesome in FW books.

That they are. It's just really strange how the plot armour manifests sometimes. In Cybernetica a Techmarine is wrestling a Skitarii Alpha against a wall and his entire squad not only don't shoot him (when they all have plasma fusils, to boot) they POINT THEIR GUNS DOWN and can't bring them back up again in time as he rips them apart. A Malagra gets executed by a bird landing on his head and stabbing him with a beak-needle, although he was more an old judge than a fighter that's kinda pathetic. All he had to do to end things there and then is not take his hands off the kill-order button for his robots to take his helmet off so be could talk to the Techmarine.

On the topic of Mechanicum I might as well repost my list
Ordo Reductor: 2500 Points

Ordo Reductor (Primary Detachment)

Archmagos Reductor: 295 Points
>2 Power Fists
>Machinator Array
>Rad Grenades
>Cyber-Familiar
>Photon Thruster
>Abeyant

2x 3 Thallax: 320 Points (160 Each)
>Phased Plasma-Fusil
>Meltabombs

7 Scyllax: 260 Points
>Triaros: 135 Points

3x Avenger Strike Fighter: 570 Points (190 Each)
>2 Kraken Missiles
>Battle Servitor Control

2x Karacnos Assault Tank: 450 Points (225 Each)
_______________________________________________

Imperialis Militia (Allied Detachment)

Force Commander: 170 Points
>Alchem-jackers
>Frenzon
>Feral Warriors
>Blade and Fury

2x50 Levy Troops: 300 Points (150 Each)
>Pistols and CCWs

Basic idea is
>Anti-Tank
Avengers and Thallax
>Capturing forward objectives
Thallax and Scyllax joined by Archmagos Reductor
>Capturing home and mid objectives
Levy blobs
>General troop killing
Assault tanks and avengers

Some FW event when?

>they're not overly wolfy in 30k
They may not be riding literal but they're still pretty bad. Have you taken a look at their legion contemptor model?

Still no FaQ or rulebook :(.

I do prefer the darker grey in 30k and the restrained-world-eaters-that-aren't-insane-with-Viking-aesthetic ethos instead of the we're-literally-wolves-in-space ethos of 40k.

With that being said, even in 30k it's hard not to look at space Wolves as the legion designed to appeal to younger players and the thousand sons as the legion designed to appeal to fat power gamers (like cartman in that old ninja episode of south park).

>not overly wolfy in 30k

Wolf guard, fenrisian wolves, deathsworn wear wolf skull helmets and are basically proto-wulfen, wolf iconography and pelts everywhere...

I still don't understand why the Cup of Wulfen is not a symbol the SW use. It's like the most important artifact they have, but even the priests can't have chalice iconography on them. Or how about those kraken? You make weapons out of them and hunt them, but you can't have anything related to them?

>frost weapons

Eh, everyone has their fancy-pancy weapons. While the whole alien ice shit is dumb, I'll welcome a different power weapon. Shame there's like one model for the frost blade that's usable.

Chalice imagery is already claimed by the Blood Angels. Also I think frost weapons are supposed to be special chain weapons made out of Kraken teeth

>Chalice imagery is already claimed by the Blood Angels.

And wolves are claimed by SW, yet SoH can have them. IF and IH both get to have a hand as their symbol. Thing with wings is being used by various legions.

>I think frost weapons are supposed to be special chain weapons made out of Kraken teeth

Frost blades. Frost axes and frost claws are made from some alien ice shit.

So how do we feel about the Orion Gunship for the Custodes? Looks aside.

I’m personally a literally underwhelmed in terms of ability, but there’s a Custodes jet-fighter that fills the role of attack fighter (Source is Inferno) that seems to cover for the weaknesses of the Orion.

I really don’t like that it’s overpriced by 100 points, has zero upgrades, no Invul, and lacks an AA abilities.

I've heard that it's overpriced, and I've heard that it's underpriced. I have no idea.

doesn't even need to be a chalice. could be a drinking horn, space vikings after all.

This thread needs more Night Lords.

Less is more when it comes to Night Lords

Curzefag, is that you?

I find them amusing, they're the only legion whose purpose made them useless in the horus heresy, also having hilariously bad high command

>Underpriced
laughinganimegirls.gif

Yeah, but the Cup of Wulfen is a specific artifact that's vital to the creation of Space Wolves, given to the legion by Russ, etc. If BA can have a chalice, given to them by their primarch, from which all new recruits must drink, and they've made such a big deal out of it that they got the iconography all over them, why not SW? At least BA have several of those chalices, SW just have the one, so it's even rarer.

>The Great Crusade has swept across half the galaxy, a million human worlds now embracing the truth and reason that comes with allegiance to the rule of Terra. But even such unparalleled success comes at a cost. Rumours abound that the Emperor plans to step back from the Crusade and raise one of his primarch sons to lead in his stead. Faced with the bitterly non-compliant human empire of Gardinaal and a leaderless host of Ultramarines, Thousand Sons and Emperor’s Children at his Legion’s command, the Iron Hands primarch Ferrus Manus decides to make an example that even the Emperor cannot ignore.

Will he succeed, guys?

>has zero upgrades
It already has armoured ceramite, extra armour, armoured cockpit and a flare shield, does it really need more ?

>no Invul
I expected one too, but having a flare shield is quite good anyway.

>lacks an AA abilities
What do you mean ? The Orion is probably one the best anti-aircraft flyers so far.

The Orion is only slightly overpriced IMO, but still decent. I'm kind of disappointed it is a LoW however, I would have preferred a cheaper, less powerful Fast Attack or Heavy unit.

Where's this from?

Probably the Ferrus Manus Primarchs series novel.

What could the example be, I'm not a IHs fan but I'm fucking curious

An example of leadership and tactical mastery that the Emperor cannot help but elevate him to warmaster.

It's the Iron Hands exemplary battle in Massacre. Ferrus packs Rhinos with explosives and uses them as suicide bombs without telling his Ultarmarine allies.

>dat spoiler
Jesus Christ Ferrus.

I kinda dig Ferrus now
Space ISIS

Stop being Alpharius user. The Rhinos were from the Lords of Gaardinal's army

>JRPG villain
Who? Is this supposed to be Perturabo?

>If FW ever decides to use 8th as a basis for HH
Did they actually ever state which edition they will be using ? I tried googling it but I'm only coming up with forum speculations.

Fulgrim you fool.
>White hair
>Pretty boy
>Skilled swordsman
>Massive asshole
>Gigantic dick
>Smug as fuck

Of course. The one I always forget.

Name of battle?