/STG/ - Star Trek General

I could actually see STD being in the [a] MU.
>more advanced tech because they got a Connie a century early
>with PU knowledge about the Federation and Starfleet, set up an organization where assassination for rank advancement is rare, not the norm
>don't automatically enslave all xenos, even use them sparingly in military (perhaps as incentive to full citizenship?)
>still up for a fight and killing whenever
>still mutiny if captain isn't being unreasonable enough
>still up for shady stuff
>muh vulcan first contact

> Earth-Romulan war

Pre federation

> Cardassian War
> armed conflict with the Tzenkethi

full-scale for them, border skirmish for the feds

> Klingon war
> until the Organians shut that shit down

That was not even a full day of war

> DS9

Chintoka was a Cardie system in the Dominion war.
The Klingons raided a couple of Federation outposts, but they were mostly busy fucking the Cardassians in that time.
Jake Sisko repelled an attack on his own, that's how serious it was.

None of those things were on the same scale as the Dominion war.
The only thing that's close are the Borg, but they never stuck around long enough to count as a real war, imo.

If the Mirror Universe episode in STD turns out to be in the Prime Universe and the normal episodes are in the Mirror Universe, my respect for the series will honestly increase significantly.

The Cardassian War was stated to be quite serious. The Federation is noted afterward as "not being ready for another major sustained conflict". It was treated on camera as a real war, despite what you think.

>Tzenkethi
We don't know much, admittedly, so this may be minor, it may not be. It was treated as fairly serious when it was mentioned though.

>DS9 Klingon War
This caused thousands and thousands of casualties, lasted for more than a year, and was treated as very serious. I don't know where your "it wasn't a real thing" comes from. Was it the Dominion War? No. Was it still a war? Yes.

You know that wars come in a variety of sizes, yes? They don't all have to be wars of annihilation. Look at the real world and the shit that counts as wars, then get back to me on if the Federation is a one-war entity or not..

Eh, in episode 3 they refer to Burnham as being the first mutineer in Starfleet history.

I agree with the original point that the Klingons and Federation were not depicted as having actually gone to war pre TOS. That said, I think you're downplaying the extent to which the Federation has conducted military engagements against other powers.

That's the best out STD has at this point honestly. I will be sad when they fuck it up.

I think there's some hope where Burnham is trying to decline Captain Dindu Nuffin's offer to join his crew. Her insistence that it's against her oath as an officer sets her up for a redemption arc, as long as she keeps with that spirit. Would have preferred that we not have gotten here in the first place, but it is what it is.

>mfw Burnham and her fighting Klingons is another point where timeline can divert into Mirror universe

I was wondering how long it'd take for an /stg/ to have the Orville as the OP image.
This feels about the right amount of time.

Goalposts: The Moving.

I actually don't want her to go on a redemption arc. I want STD to go MU and for her to say "fuck it, the Klinks are genocidal fucks, let's gas them". I want the show to double down on what it is doing. If it's not gonna be real Trek, then own that shit and roll with it.

> You know that wars come in a variety of sizes, yes?

Of course. One of them being
> full-scale war

None of your examples has the totality for that.

See
>Goalposts: The Moving.

You never claimed the Federation never engages in "full-scale war' whatever the fuck you even define that as, since that's not a cogent definition of anything. You merely said "the Federation doesn't engage in wars", which has been clearly and easily refuted using alpha canon examples. If you wish to continue moving goalposts, spouting statements that lack clear definitions, and otherwise being a bit of a berk, go ahead, but don't expect us to not laugh at you for being stupid.

The fact is this: the Federation does engage in extended armed conflicts that qualify as wars by any accepted definition of the term.

TOS badges were not unique to each ship.

startrek.com/article/starfleet-insignia-explained

> you never claimed the Federation never engages in "full-scale war'
> You merely said "the Federation doesn't engage in wars"

meet the last line of > The Federation only went through one full-scale war in it's entire history so far.

Context is king!

My memory failed me, fine. Now, define "full-scale war" in a way that has the support of academic understandings of war. Please provide that definition here. Then, once we have agreed on a definition (which I think you'll find is difficult to do as the phrase you're using isn't one that is cogent in any way), we can discuss how the Federation's stated wars fit into that definition.

>That would have been the TNG or DS9 episode for sure.
Oh, you mean fucking Empok Nor? Because that's totally what they were trying for - and failing at.

>it had David Werner as a Klingon, and his whole schtick is way less about sounding Klingon and way more about sounding like an evil genius.
And he was playing one of the >good guysAnyone here play Attack Wing?
Yes

>Is it any good?
In short: yes, but not as a simulator.

Organized play is a twinkfest that would put an Erasure tribute band convention to shame. The complete clusterfuck is only worsened by CBS ramming its cock down Wizkids' collective throat every time they try to balance it or make any kind of era or faction exclusivity exist. It's the kind of game where people put ENT-era Ablative Armor on a Species 8472 Dreadnought, crew it with Mirror Troi and General Martok, and then run it alongside a Borg Sphere with Klingon weapons and a weird tournament reward card that lets you give it extra damage dice supposedly based around the Enterprise-J.

Also, as mentioned last thread, there's a LOT of barrel-scraping going on. Every alpha-canon ship that ever fired an energy blast, plus anything they have CGI models of lying about, got at least one blister pack, a custom mission, and a dozen cards. But only alpha-canon, so if you like Gorn you get the silver dildo bundle and then you jolly well buy another five of the same blister pack (which is missing two cards from the tourney reward pack, and one is renamed, but is but otherwise identical).

Still fun though. Just watch out for the maneuver templates. There are some slight but important changes from the X-wing ones, so if you go third-party make sure you're getting the "fleet" style.

>Is there any way of playing online?
There's both TT-sim and VASSAL modules last I heard.

>ywn play the senior staff on a Steamrunner class
SufferingSisko.gif

As the OG Steamrunner fag, I have legit been brought to tears by the fact that I'll never get the play as the captain of a Steamrunner, exploring the galaxy and hanging out with bomb-ass aliens.

> Now, define "full-scale war"

A conflict emerging from misunderstandings without clearly stated objectives.
The party that accuses the the opponent of moving those misunderstood/undefined goalposts first wins.

I'm not the user using full-scale first, I just assumed it being somewhat synonymous to total war.

The Cardassian war wasn't all that bad for the Feds.
It was mostly contained to what later became the DMZ.
The Union ended up battered enough that they had to pull out of Bajor, but, just a couple of years after it, O'Brien was one of the few persons who had actually served in the war found on the Enterprise.
The Federation only gave up colonies in the peace treaties because in the meantime a Borg cube parked in Earth Orbit and they had more important things to attend to.

Personally I wanna play the XO or Ops. Sure, the latter isn't as great as the same position on say, a Nova, but it's still comfy. Maybe if we despair long and hard enough, some kind soul will set up a game for us both.

1) I literally have a Steamrunner (and an Akira..) full of drunken Andorian pirates in STO. Took like a week of work.
2) Stop being a fag and write one up for FASA Trek or use the new gamestats user posted last thread, then run a game?

>1) I literally have a Steamrunner (and an Akira..) full of drunken Andorian pirates in STO. Took like a week of work.
STO isn't the same as a true RPG.

>2) Stop being a fag and write one up for FASA Trek or use the new gamestats user posted last thread, then run a game?
I *am* that user, fucker, and my lament is that I am the forever GM for my gaming group. If anyone is going to run Star Trek Adventures, it'll be me or no one, but I really want to be a player. This is the source of my sadness.

Though this may be a controversial thought (At least in the eyes of my GM/DM friend) You could be a DM/Player. You would just have to seriously inhibit your characters meta knowledge.

GM plays the captain, players play the senior staff and go on away teams.

Eh... It requires a lot of self-restraint on the GM's part not to spoil or metagame the Captain. I'm not saying it's impossible, just that in all my Tabletop experience I've only seen it work out once. And that was in Rogue Trader of all things.

If I get a game going, this is probably what's gonna happen. I'll probably have the Captain be an NPC as serve as questgiver while the PCs are the senior staff and given moderately wide latitude to do things. Crisis decisions would, of course, be the captain's call, but in more routine situations the senior staff has the reins. This way, I get a little bit of fun as the captain and the PCs still are the real stars of the show, as it should be in an RPG.

So the creators of Orville are Endless spacefans?

Let us know if you ever decide to go through with it. Personally the days/times I'm free are limited, but I'd definitely be interested in Steamrunning around space.

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Sadly, I don't run online games. Sorry user, I do sympathize.

>filename
So, same ol, same ol?

>They already confirmed a Mirror Universe episode, its the one Frakes is directed.
No, Frakes is just the one that let it slip that it was a thing that was happening. The episode he directed is supposed to be rather Klingon-focused.

I've found that a PC Captain works just as well. Usually - well, Discovery characters notwithstanding - Starfleet people are supposed to be professionals who get along well, and the Captain listens to everyone's contributions and makes reasonable decisions. So there aren't many situations where the Captain is forced to "pull rank".

All of you looking for a STA game, this just showed up: reddit.com/r/lfg/comments/73vcbd/onlinestar_trek_adventuresany_timezonepossibly/

I'd jump on it myself if tonight was free. Sadly, it is not.

And ENT made the mistake canon.

In other news: 'Threshold' is canon. 'Turnabout Intruder' does not in fact imply women cannot command starships. Women wore pants in both pilots, and occasionally throughout TOS.

>NOTHING CHANGES
This is a good Trek book - Gene Roddenberry

How the fuck did the Wadi survive so close to the Dominion?

Too unimportant, or they already were part of the Dominion (either or which is speculative because all we know about them is that they're from the Gamma quadrant and like games).

>And ENT made the mistake canon.
Nah, ENT just made a mistake of it's own. Defiant crew in TOS are seen with the delta insignia, so they should've had them in ENT too.

You can keep saying that, but it doesn't change that what is on screen is canon.

Weyoun likes games.
youtube.com/watch?v=rACCZaBcq1g

...

I don't think I'll ever be able to like it. Even the Oberth has some charm. I guess it's better than the Curry.

Could it be worse? I mean, maybe if it had a ring-shaped hole in the saucer, it might be worse. Otherwise, I think it is as bad as it gets. I prefer the Curry and Yeager even to this monstrosity.

>tell me about your feelings, Lt. user

I was with you until you said Yeager. Nothing is worse than that horrible horrible abomination.

>I guess it's better than the Curry
This.

>I prefer the Curry and Yeager
Not this. They're utterly fucking awful and make no sense. At least this design has some consistency.

Now if this design was weirdly blocky with overly long nacelles and had big holes in it for no apparent reason I'd agree. But what kind of madman would design a star trek ship that way? It'd be even more contrary to very well established design principles than even the Yeager, let alone aesthetically even worse than the Mcquarrie design already is.

WE HAVE TO GO DEEPER

You're out of uniform Counselor. And schedule an eye exam. Those aren't butter pips.

>visible hair on both arms

If the designation 'scientific vessel' means cheap piece of mass producible shit, then I can sympathize with the awful ship design. But after episode 3, I feel that this highly dangerous research project demands a far more heavily armed war cruiser.

STO has gone too far. But then again, we all knew that already.

It's ugly ship time?

Go stand there and "sense" stuff we already know Troi.

I'm about to start watching TNG for the first time. Is Wesley as bad as the memes say?

Angry. Angry and tired.

I don't think I hate this as much as I should. I mean, it is definitely bad, but it's just kinda Eh. Especially by comparison to other STO original designs, which often stray fully into 'my brain hurts from looking at this, what kind of idiot didn't take 5 minutes to fix the blatant problems' territory. It's a weirdly specific territory they stray into over and over somehow. FASA did it a lot too.

But that ship is at least fairly well proportioned and balanced visually, no weird stretching or positioning. I'd say that it is at least bad on its own terms.

...huh?

Mostly.

Yes and no.
Season 1: Oh fuck is he ever.
Season 2 onwards: Less so because they take a different angle (less super genius, though still stupidly smart, but focusing more on being young and inexperienced, which leads to definite awkwardness in places but it's far more deliberate) and he's increasingly shunted into being a secondary character rather than a focus.
Most of the time he's just there, or helping out Data/Geordie with tech stuff.
His last appearance though is garbage and it'll make you hate him again if you ever managed to get over the season 1 awfulness.

Now THAT is a FASA-worthy design/abomination. Probably looks ok top-down too just to trick people into thinking it might not be shite if they see that angle first.

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, you have no idea...

>opening chapter is about Troi feeling bad because of one crewmember who had to leave the Enterprise for having a nervous breakdown that she couldn't help
>has to help a psychic nun who didn't even realise she was telepathic - doesn't get very far, owing to nun being unable to cope with so many voices in her head
>this is interspersed with Troi complaining about her lack of "me time" and how she can't just stuff her face with chocolate sundaes at the end of her shift, as well as a flashback where Lwaxana is a good mother for once
>when the Enterprise finally encounters the A-plot (evil twin trying to usurp the throne of a human colony that lost touch with the outside world after a while and became this weird medieval theocracy) Troi does her usual "He's hiding... something..." crap
>unsurprisingly, the Away Team (which includes Troi and The Psychic Nun) ends up in a dungeon with the king who's being usurped
>turns out the King is sort of psychic, and Troi and The Psychic Nun try to boost his powers so he can call for help or something
>they don't succeed
>the GM basically goes "Okay, you can use your psychic link to Riker, and the DC will be lower because you two used to bone. Yes, the Nun can help you."
>Riker saves the day and rescues everyone, but they still need to decide which is the real King, because Neason wanted to pad the book out a bit
>evil twin cheats the tests with his psychic powers
>Troi tries to stop him
>she fails
>Troi and Psychic Nun get roped into some test where they have to prove which one is the evil twin
>Psychic Nun goes "Fuck this, I'm out" but gets inadvertently talked into it by Data, in the book's one really good scene
>GM once again lowers the DC so Troi can point out the fucking obvious (complete with a weird bit where Troi basically thinks "Man, it'd be really easy to completely fuck his mind up. I won't... just thought I'd mention it"

>epilogue has Psychic Nun go to Vulcan to get some actual help, but she sends a letter to Troi going "Oh you were totally a big help, honest"
>crewmember who got fucked up in chapter 1 returns to Enterprise
>Troi feels really fucking smug

The thing that confuses me about all of this is that the specialist character helping save the day is a nun, apparently. What religion? Why is she on the ship? Who is this person and why does she go from "unable to cope with the voices" to "proving who is the evil twin so she can save the day"? So many questions.

Then why did the dude in The Omega Glory have a different badge?

Read the fucking article man, they explicitly explain that Captain Tracey's badge was a fuck up and that's what that memo is about.

We don't deserve Combs. He's too good for this world.

Pity that it appeared on screen and became canonical then.

If he turns up on The Orville I will be entirely unsurprised and mildly aroused.

>To most it seems that the iconic delta shape is some sort of ship assignment patch meant to represent the U.S.S. Enterprise.
>Some arrive at this conclusion because they see various Starfleet personnel wearing a number of different insignia. However, like any puzzle without a key, it’s impossible to precisely interpret the meaning of these other insignia.
>The hidden key to the puzzle was finally uncovered a few years ago.

Convenient that it was discovered in time for STD. Too bad they couldn't have found it before "In a Mirror, Darkly" gave us the assignment patch for the Defiant, muddying the waters further.

On screen>background info, always.

All that became canonical is that Tracey had a different badge. Not why, or what it meant, or reasons behind it, none of which were provided on screen. In the absence of any information about why, we logically must turn to secondary sources such as the above memo and conversations with the showrunners and their documentation to find the most reasonable reason for the unusual, yet canon, discrepancy. Tell me this, what makes more sense? That all the show runners and their writings indicate one thing? Or that a fan theory with no support anywhere claims another thing? Which of these is more likely to be right, given that canon says NOTHING to support either position?

Bottom-right is OK as a freighter, and I actually like the "Insignia-class" based on the bottom-left (it ditches the wierd pylon/fins).
Now the Curry, THAT's fugly.

What did you guys think of the new DS9?

What is this from?

Also, OH GOD WHY?

That makes no sense. The whole point of the pylons was so ships could dock there.

DS9 Relaunch. The original station gets blown up, and O'Brien and Nog are tasked to build a new one. O'Brien took several Cardassian design cues to heart, while the new station is something like 4 times the size of the original.

Still the same, only now you can apparently dock in the pylons and they provide a stronger shield, or something.

>canon has nothing to support either position
>memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/In_a_Mirror,_Darkly_(episode)
>memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/In_a_Mirror,_Darkly,_Part_II_(episode)
>memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/USS_Defiant_(NCC-1764)

I guess ENT is non-canon guys.

Enterprise also contradicted what was previously explicitly shown on-screen in TOS.

We know. It's been argued about since ENT aired. It doesn't suddenly render it non-canon if it conflicts with TOS (much as I, or other anons might wish it so).

STD is also doing this. I don't like it, but it's canon.

Does anyone on Enterprise say "wow look at those assignment patches on the Defiant crewmembers, which were used to indicate that they were specifically assigned to the USS Defiant because assignment patches were created to indicate each individual ship and not the dozens of other possible reasons?" No? Then shut up.

...

Ever notice how the quality of an MU episode is a direct correlation to how early it is in the timeline?

ENT's MU episodes shouldn't have been as good as they were. B&B should have hired Manny Coto waaay before season three.

The GMPC shouldn't be the captain. Too much capacity for abuse, and usually too much in the spotlight. I've had good luck using the XO and Science/Comms officer. Think about it:
> Not supposed to go on away teams with the Captain.
>Usually spends episode involved with the "B" plot, but rarely advancing it.
>Constantly giving advice that is (of course) ignored, but always in probabilities and not "you shoulds"
>Feeds sensor info to rest of bridge crew. AKA "In low orbit, you see..."
>Can relay comms (Spock does this repeatedly in ToS) and do silly voices as necessary (that was mostly Jimmy Doohan, bless his linguist nine-fingered heart).

Or you could go for Ops and be the Kim; bro it up a bit with the others, but low man on the totem pole when it comes to actually making decisions. Plus Ops is the guy that gets stuck with the paperwork, so in my games it goes ignored a lot of the time. Why else do you think the poor bastard never leveled up?

Guinan was basically the closest thing to a GMPC in a Trek show.

- Vague and mysterious
- Does nothing almost all the time
- Is not in any important role whatsoever
- Offers vague advice whenever someone has no idea what to do next

Several thoughts:
1. I don't plan on a GMPC of any variety at all, just NPCs like normal.

2. The reason I like the Captain as an NPC is that it gives the players a clear chain of command and checks the worst of the murderhobo tendencies. I can see the potential for abuse though, no joke. I might let a player be Captain, though I foresee a great many issues with it.

Having the XO as an NPC also checks the murderhobo tendencies because they can just relieve the captain of command if he decides to be retarded.

At which point he shoulda just been the Captain to begin with.

>In other news: 'Threshold' is canon. 'Turnabout Intruder' does not in fact imply women cannot command starships. Women wore pants in both pilots, and occasionally throughout TOS.
TBF, the entire >point< of Turnabout Intruder was that Janet was a crazy bitch with a persecution complex. It reads a little different these days, but if you read the novelization there's a >lot< of asides where the other Feddies ask what the fuck she's on about.

Huh, people usually avoid the "toilet-paper tube" nacelles from the first test model. Rightly so, mind you, but that's at least better-blended than the Discovery.

>tell me about your feelings, Lt. user
Get back in your uniform, young lady. You look much better in it anyway. [/Jellico]

Aside from the obvious Maquis ship bits up front, the Yeager actually looks pretty good. Blend that into an Intrepid-style neck and she'd be sexy as Hell.

>I feel that this highly dangerous research project demands a far more heavily armed war cruiser.
The Federation keeps calling science ships "Cruisers" and "Battleships" when dealing with other races. And then the predictable happens. Why the Hell do you think they lost half the original Constitution-Classes and damned near >all< the Galaxies?

He starts off as G-Rod's self-insert Gary Stu and slowly evolves into a slightly less-hateable Scrappy Doo. There are a couple decent episodes with him in them, but none of the ones focusing on him. Until he winds up covering up for Tom Paris in the Academy incident and getting paddled. Then he gets a great lifeboat episode with Picard where Jean-Luc >almost< admits he's probably Wesley's dad. Then no-one ever mentions it again and he goes back to being a hateable mascot.

>Get back in your uniform, young lady. You look much better in it anyway

She and all the other women that didn't regularly wear Starfleet uniforms

>not using Mirror T'Pol
That episode made teenage me nut so hard my vision stayed blue shifted the rest of the day.

Right? I don't get why the costumers/producers couldn't figure that out. It at least made sense for Kira to wear something else.

It can be fun for casual play, but the balance isn't great. Ship point cost is a simple linear formula they never deviate from. Just the sum of all stats x2. Which means that small ships are unplayable garbage, and there's little point in fielding generic ships because the named versions gets special abilities for free.

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