/bbg/ - Blood Bowl General

That makes sense I guess. I still wouldn't put them up on par with Warriors and Blorcs but if they get good enough armour scavenged it works.

I don't mind them having a Black Orc equivalent per-se, but I don't think they should be Ag3.
An AG3 player who is Str4 and with Horns is frankly ridiculous. Especially if 0-2 availability.

So continuing from last thread, the general consensus was that Ungors shouldn't have Stunty. But there was some back and forth on Horns. From a lore perspective they're just nubs, but from a gameplay perspective having the entire team have horns makes sense.
Should they not get Dodge either? At that point I'd say drop them down to 40k if so.

Otherwise I think most people were agreeing with the MA7 ST4 AG2 AV8 Horns, Jugger, Sprint Centigors. Yes they are good, but they are 130k, that is a LOT of points. I think only Mummies are more and they are NATIVELY ST5 with AV9 and Mighty Blow (I think?) as Standard.

Who would win in a fight, a magical Bestigor that has the power to forget how mean the world is to him and a giant spiked penis that he can use as a spear, or a Black Orc that still lives in his mom's basement next to the cat litter box but can use his mustache like tentacles.

DAMN IT WORLD, I'M A PERSON WITH OPINIONS! Bestigors should totally be Agility 3! And women should be forced to mate with me every 3 years. Why can't you all see this.

They shouldn't get dodge. They're man sized and weak. If anything you got to be extra small and light to have dodge, like stunties, or be lithe and light like the Amazons.

Ungors are not known for either being physically fit or light, just gnarly. They are as fine as is.

You also need to consider player cost (in terms of the Centigor) in what they bring to the team. So while by itself it wouldn't cost 130k, a small buffer in it would not be so bad. Especially since mummies crippling issue is their atrocious MV.

Centigor's make for solid runners and unlike Bull Centaurs, have Ag3 which makes them actually somewhat reliable. Their effectiveness and ease of running huge distances and having the ability to easily break open a gap in a screen is enough to warrant the 130k cost.

Look at me suck on this straw like it's a magical elf penis. I'm a twinky little rentboy and I love pretending to be a big strong Bestigor.

what if the beastmen team could bring an immobile breystone and everyone in an aoe around it had pro

I really don't think Centigors should be Ag3. Nothing with ST5 access should be Ag3 from the start.
If they are AG3 we will HAVE to bump them up to 150-160k, and that's too much for a non-big guy.

The Costs are a bit janky in TV. Best I can see is both Centigors, both Bestigors, all Ungors and 1 Gor, comes to 980. Or you can switch on Ungor for a Gor for the full 1000

Its 30k more than a Chaos Warrior, for 3 marginal skills (Jugg is situational, and sprint is risky), and no AGI access to help with Sprint.

Hear me out, I think it would impress the ladies more if I told them my Centigors were Agility 3 though.

Hey baby, want to come back to my mom's basement and I'll show you some AGILITY 3 Centigors. Then I will rape you.

Same argument with the Bestigors. They are 20k more than Chaos warriors without Agi access and Horns, which is useful one piece per turn.

Bestigor arguments are totally the best arguments.

That would be pretty broken. What is the cost if somehow removing the breystone and how much would it cost?

Dude, its 20k more for a worse Chaos warrior.

I think it makes sense with that the Bestigor has horns and is faster than the Warrior.

I know. I think its a fair price, and the Bestigor is fine. I get annoyed by people saying they should be made worse, like the Centigor guy further up saying a Chaos warrior with sprint and swapping armour for movement should be the same price as a Minotaur.

Well I will say even as is, the beastman roster in my view is significantly better than the Bretonnian roster as an example. More balanced, more flavourful and I wouldn't mind using it myself.

I think it would actually perform better than standard Chaos at the start, just at a glance.

Yeah it performs better than Chaos low tv, but suffers if a Centigor gets ganked (which is easier than ganking a Chaos warrior), but drops of in higher TV. The Brettonia line up is just a low tier team without a fun compensation (Gobbos have weapons, Vamps have Hypno, Ogres are ogres etc)

Not to draw it away from the original topic too much but, since you're around. On paper and many years ago when I fought them, they seemed very overpowered.

The peasants fend was a nightmare to handle on the LOS and the Knights felt like, to me, Gutter Runners on steroids. I didn't know how to fight them or treat them in terms of tactics so got squashed.

Granted I was a lot less experienced back then, but I would have thought with A access, Bretonnians having 4 blodgers with dauntless and catch would be hell to fight.

Or are they just crap and my craippiness made them seem much better?

This but
>Ungors get M on doubles

>Bestigors 6/4/3/8
>110k

I don't think them having the same armor as Chaos Warriors and Black Orcs is appropriate. Yes they salvage armor, but salvaged armor isn't as tough, and its worn improperly and held together by weaker pieces. It's important that Beastmen be squishier than their Chaos counterparts. This is the same as on FUMBBL. Also, they're too pricey paired with Centigors. This is Beastmen we're talking about, they shouldn't have such elite units.

>Centigor 7/4/3/8 Horns, Sprint
>130

I don't want to see Centigors be THAT much harder hitting than bull centaurs, they're too lean. They shouldn't come with Juggernaut. They're also much faster than Bull Centaurs, so they should come with 7 MA. I think Sprint with no Sure Feet represents their crazy drunkenness well. Maybe drop them to 120k

Other than that, bretty good roster. Compared to the FUMBBL roster, only 1 Minotaur balances out having access to two Centigors. Many people don't take the 2 Minotaurs anyways. If 0-2 Minos were a must, I think you could limit the Gors to 0-6 or 0-8 to even out the strength increase. Having to fall back on shitty ungors when your AV8 players start dropping is pretty Beastmen.

The Issue Brets have is that they need SPP, but have no easy way to get it on the Blitzers quickly. An experienced player ignores the linemen and puts their blockers onto the expensive pieces and cuts them to pieces if they are bashy. Against running/catching teams, the Brets don't have the movement or the punchiness to cripple an elf team. So they are a halfway house team, which can never really get off the ground. Give me some level 3 blitzers, some level 2 yeomen, and I'll give you a good team, but no-one is going to reach that point.

okay what the fuck just happened?

Mods deleted some spammy user who had a bit of extra time on his hands.

A pile of shitposts got deleted
Granted, beastmen are basically walking shitposts

I see. Well he was also an experienced Bret team and I was stunty and far less experienced but that makes sense. Isolate the peasants and gang bang the positionals. Sounds solid to me. Though another user said that nearly everyone of the normal teams just savages them horribly.

>beastmen are basically walking shitposts

It has been years but I still hate that small addition GW gave to the beastman as turd tossing furry savages. I much preferred just the savages.

To add. The Bestigor looks buff and all that but seems more armoured like a Stormvermin Skaven than the other big blockers.

See Pic related.

what if the beastmen could bring breyshamans and cast magic? or harpies with vll leap and hypnogaze

Let's just work with what we have before we add anything. Also wizards no longer are in BB2016 which is a bit of a kick. So maybe Breyshaman could be a unique inducement?

Harpies also fly which gives them far too much power in the Blood Bowl pitch.

what if beastmen could bring a ghorgon? it's st10 , claw mighty blow, but has bloodlust

Str 10 is stupid. Thats unblockable by even Big guys. To put that in perspective, half the chaos team, with a blitzing minotaur hit one dice dice. Bloodlust means nothing since that thing can have two ungors next to it, and permanently mulch anything thrown at it.

Only if Humans get Giants

And Lizardmen get Dread Saurian, who have always hungry, but can affect enemy pieces.

They actually addressed this in the fluff specifically with giants. There were major issues fitting them into stadiums, playing in their stadiums, and making the game even playable.

Also a fun little example of a poor halfling team fighting on a giants stadium where every square on a giant's pitch was half an entire field on human sized Blood bowl pitches.

I will say, it would be cool to have a chance to play a proper Dungeonbowl game (as from the novels). Loads of different rooms, connected by portals with chests that contain a bunch of fake balls, and one real one. Step on that tile, oh dear theres a minotaur. Step on that one, oh hers a chest, and a ball inside, boom, im KO'd. Could be quite fun.

My friend actually made the pair of us a gorgous dungeonbowl tile set which gave us a fairly long time of fun. Booby traps, chests, lava, pits, even extra big rooms for monsters. Was great. Until you got cornered by Bloodletters.

Sound really cool. I love the more fluffy parts of bloodbowl, its why I liked Blitz mode in BB1.

Well if you got the BB Deathzone books, there is a lot of nice fluff expansion. Or at least in Deathzone 2. For example I think the GW devs did a great job explaining Ripper's Really Stupid trait being removed. They made him a well spoken English gentleman.

How to git gud at bb2? I've got a pretty advanced orc team but chaos teams with claws absolutely mulches my players

That's a pretty hard position to be in, especially with the dumb treasury rules of the 150k adding to TV. Especially for Orcs who aren't cheap and take ages to level up.

What TV are you at exactly? For Killer Chaos teams, an additional part of your strategy should be damage control. Not many standard setups can help with that barring a merciful game from Nuffle, you're almost certainly going to lose someone.

I would recommend starting as kicker and deploying 8-9 squares in with your key players (almost beside the end zone) and place three lineorcs on the frontline. Do not move with your rear players and let them come to you. This way you can at least ensure worst case, for the first two turns he can only get maximum 4 blocks (including the blitz second turn) and that is assuming he makes a go for you asap.

Try to restrict him to one block a turn, even if it means doing 1d blocks. This is especially important on offense where he will likely be trying to mark and snipe you with blitzes or overwhelm you with tackle zones to try to cause an early turn over.

The other alternative besides the obvious of immediate concession (which in some cases may actually be sensible depending how killy he is) is to keep all your super stars on the bench. Granted this only works if your roster has a few spare players to begin with but if preservation is your main objective it can help. So long as your player is on the bench, they cannot be touched.

don't manmark claw pieces, foul them whenever they're on the floor with dirty player.

To be honest I'm not into Bestigors being s4, I think 6/3/3/9 horns block is a better representation of what they are: tougher, better armored gors with more martial prowess.

what's the str of a bestigor in WHFB?

I think flavour is also a part of it though your logic is sound. But at that point they are straight up upgrades to the Orc Blitzer. For fluff, team sync and a little bit of lee-way with the fluff, I think the S4 is ok. If anything was just the armour. Hell, Beastlords were of equal strength to Black Orc Warbosses in the old rules so while their armour value can be disputed, their strength certainly is in line with what I'd expect from fluff.

Bump

Did you a favor

what if chaos dwarfs could bring an iron demon which was strength 100 but had really stupid, bonehead, decay, and movement 1

>But at that point they are straight up upgrades to the Orc Blitzer.

Dark Elf Blitzers are a straight upgrade to Human Blitzers, so I don't follow.

That is a fair point. Touche.

Bestigor are s4, they have a great weapon and wear heavy armor

sounds like they should be S4 in bloodbowl too

Not a great rule to follow, Ogres are S4 in WHFB yet are S5 in Blood Bowl. So oughtn't Bestigors be S5 in Blood Bowl as well?

Ogres fit a different role in both games tho. Bestigor are the biggest and strongest gor

Chaos Warriors also have str 4 in tabletop and remain so in BB. What distinguishes Bestigors and Chaos Wars from Ogres is their wounds. The former only ever had 1 wound. Ogres had 3. So str 5 makes more sense due to their extra hardiness.

So with Slann's facelift into Kislev, I think we can explore potential buffs for the faction.

Personally the only one I want to see is to Blitzers. Give them Wrestle instead of Diving Tackle. Shit man, they wrestle bears

that would honestly be a nerf. you can just give strip ball / wrestle to a lineman. and diving tackle is a nice skill that you probably won't get otherwise.

They're super underwhelming starting out currently. Wrestle+Jump Up is super fun, and I'd totally get still Diving Tackle on 1 or 2 dudes for screening

The Skink in BB2 are cute as fuck, especially the chameleon one
>The touchdown animation where they try to tongue the ball and hit themselves in the head
Gets me evry time

They're fine.

Better then Chaos at lower TV but get worse later on due to less skill access.

Maybe S on Gors and mutations for Ungors since doubles is for mutations, but other than that.

Maybe we should playtest them? You could create custom teams on Fumbbl or use then on table top as is for now to see how they do.

How do you make custom teams on Fumbbl? I know about the secret league and stunties but not how they are made.

slann are also really good when fully developed. you can't have a team be good at all stages, their biggest weakness is lack of skills at the start.

> you can't have a team be good at all stages
What is the stage in which Orcs and Dwarves are no longer good?

Dwarves aren't exactly bad, but they fall off hard after 1400 TV. Orcs also get bad at higher TV thanks to no PO anymore.

>Playing untermensch teams
Why don't you guys join the master race?

>Dark Elves
>Ubermensch

Funny

why haven't they released this thicc fluffyboi in Bloodbowl 2 yet?

Cause in BB2 they're sticking to the LRB6 rules which came before BB2016. Sad, would love to see the two Glarts together.

I just want the new MVP rule.

No more linos with MVP, or star players, or the injured one.

>or the injured one
Better than the dead one.

BB2 has an achievement for that.

It doesn't help.

But a black orc is much better value for TV. Cuts down on bloat.

Bump

1500 tv + when chaos killstacks become a thing

Leap VLL claw GA for harpies?

Did Beastmen get harpies in WFB?

That could work I guess but just the idea of flight capable players in BB just would feel odd.

Yes Beastmen got harpies.

Harpies? In Blood Bowl?!

Fumbbl already did it: fumbbl.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=28657

Just played against a team of wood elves
Threw at least 3 2d blocks every turn
Only got 3 armour breaks through the entire game and that breaked down to 2 stuns and 1 injury
Fuck I'm so mad
He got 3 injuries against me in about 4 total knock downs

Mighty blow is your friend.

Got it on all my Black orcs and Blitzers compared to him not having it at all

Dirty player line orcs?

It's done now and the very next game I'm now completely destroying some Nord, I guess Nuffle just decided it wasn't my game

It happens man. I had both my trolls i jured in the first half vs rookie lizards. I even had a doctor fail and two regens fail. Things happen.

So, Beastmen fan fiction over now? Anything else to complain about, anything in Octobers White Dwarf?

The next OP will be furry beastmen and you'll like it.

I still want to be fucked by this guy?

what if high elves could bring a dragon

Would be silly but could give them an edge because they are the most plain elf team in BB.

centigors r cool and should be 7 MA and lose juggernaut

>playan dorfs
>ball drops from a delf in between a few of my dorfs
>have to gfi with my runner after blitzing the carrier with him to get the ball
>runner falls on his ass on top of the ball
>bounces to longbeard
>he catches it
Should I be happy or scared?