>Be me. I'm from mostly /co/, /toy/, and Veeky Forums >Roleplaying looks interesting, I think I'll give it a try. >Manage to find a group at the local game store that I never knew existed. They are all new to, and starting a Starfinder game. >This is was starting September >Great! Even if the old hats are experienced at Role-playing we can mostly learn the new stuff together >Played two games now, then last night: >Some guy at the store is apparently ... a rather big fan of fourth edition Dungeons and Dragons. >Calls me and another guy "Grognards" for playing Starfinder. >Guy was honestly an asshole, doesn't matter I guess. Hopefully I don't run into him at the store often. >Google what the fuck a Grognard is... grognard (plural grognards) An old soldier. (games, slang) Someone who enjoys playing older war-games or roleplaying games, or older versions of such games, when newer ones are available.
When newer ones are available.
>Not only is it an old timey insult? But it's apparently still used in the role-playing world today. >Learn about "edition wars". Find Starfinder is base on Pathfinder which is based on third edition. Find 4e is based on the mistakes of third edition and apparently a little of the second edition? >What the fuck am I getting into? I've only been playing a week? Are there secret cults that kill each other over this?
So 4e ended or... started to end in 2012 for all I can tell. Replaced with 5th- jesus how many editions are there? I'm playing a brand new game, Starfinder (that may be considered 3rd party? but) that is a new spin on older rules, and is brand new and came out THIS SUMMER!
Why the hell was this guy who is prompting a 5 year old game calling me a Grognard? Explain it to me Veeky Forums, I think you are the only ones that can.
Jaxson Young
Autism? Edition wars are pretty common in tabletop RPGs.
Caleb Lee
It's like being called a cuck. His intent was just to make you feel insulted, and it apparently worked.
Ayden Moore
>Why the hell was this guy who is prompting a 5 year old game calling me a Grognard? Explain it to me Veeky Forums, I think you are the only ones that can. No-one can explain the minds of people who get into edition-wars. At least sports fans can compare team scores.
Eli Brooks
>from /co/ It's sort of like if a DC fan called you out for liking Watchmen I guess.
His point was probably that you weren't playing the newest OFFICIAL D&D stuff, but instead a reiteration of a spinoff from an older edition.
However, that's exactly what 5e is as well, only 5e uses more stuff from 2e.
So really, having the knowledge needed to call you a Grognard based on you playing Starfinder would make him an even bigger one.
Jordan Martin
Nothing wrong with grognards, mind.
Joshua Barnes
Because Pathfinder is shit, Starfinder is moreso, and 4e was great but got unfairly shat on because NOT MUH 3.5 MECHANICS grognards raged in their basements over it.
Cooper Long
If they'd have just made 4e not called D&D people would have loved it. The abilities thing they did was pretty cool, mechanics weren't super hard, allowed for some awesome moments blowing your daily power. But it wasn't "muh dnd"
Jose Davis
Yeah, grognard kind of means "old timer" in terms of attitude if not actual years of age. It can be used pejoratively, but many people proudly call themselves grognards. When used as an insult, it tends to imply that you have an unreasoning aversion to anything new. You're the Archie Bunker of RPGs. When used more positively, it can denote a veteran of RPGs who has the maturity and experience not to be wowed by all the latest fads.
The only way the guy's insult makes any sense is if he was basically viewing Starfinder as Pathfinder, and maybe viewing Pathfinder as a continuation of 3.5, and in turn, of 3e. I guess we're getting to the point now where folks who swear by 3.x can reasonably be called grognards, but it seems weird to me as I'm much more used to see it applied to genuine old schoolers, as in old school D&D, as in OSR. And there's a pretty clear dividing line there, as everything before 3e (and the year 2000) used the same core system of rules and was therefore roughly compatible (this applies to OD&D, and the various editions of Basic and AD&D). But I digress...
Even if we embrace 3.e / 3.5 as grognard-worthy territory, the guy's insult was a pretty big stretch. So I'd say the guy was an idiot in addition to an asshole.
>jesus how many editions are there? A lot. See pic. In D&D's defense, it was granddaddy of all RPGs and it's been around for more than 40 years now.
Liam Rodriguez
4e gets a lot more shit than it deserves, but they fucked up more than the nomenclature.
Owen Gomez
He's just a bit of a tool. Ignore him.
Jordan Morgan
The dude was That Guy and assumed you were you were experienced Pathfinder players; as ideologically committed to your preferred system as macfags are to Apple branded white pieces of expensive plastic. He ridiculed you playing a Pathfinder reskin, thinking his choice of D&D edition, the fourth, is superior to yours. To summarize the differences, D&D 3.x/PF is caster edition where martials are crap and full of trap options; 4e was created to balance the classes, which it did well, but is basically WoW on tabletop, impossible to play without shit like play mats and miniatures; and 5e is actually pretty good, if somewhat simplified. All three of these systems have large vocal groups of idiots who hate the other two and won't shut up about their preferred option. If your system was released earlier than that of the insulter, you're an ancient grognard who should fuck off and die already, if it was released later, you're a fucking newfag who should kill yourself.
Bentley Davis
Forgive me, but how is being 100% dependent on having a mat and miniatures tied to being "WoW on tabletop"?
That just seems like a leap of logic
Noah Lee
Because autism and selectively ignoring D&D has had abilities that were "once per day" and "whenever you feel like it" since fucking forever
Also god forbid they actually spell out what each class is designed to be best at
Hudson Gray
That doesn't answer my question at all, it has nothing to do with WoW, mats or miniatures
Jack Morris
Not him, but I think it has to deal with there are 4 class categories similar to WoWs holy trinity. A lot of the martial abilities were also reminiscent of WoW when it first launched. Thats pretty much it. 4e haters just call it WoW on the table for some reason.
Julian Diaz
>FOUR class categories >Holy TRINITY
That... seems stupid
Benjamin Roberts
It is/was. Its something that suck unfortunately. Just 3.x grognards being grognards.
Bentley Clark
Because it is. WotC designed it specifically because they were losing huge chunks of thier audience to MMOs. This isn't new news, dude...
Ethan Martin
It's deeply stupid.
Basically, when a game comes out that someone wants to insult, they'll say it's just a tabletop version of whatever fantasy videogame is popular at the moment. They mean to imply that it's dumbed-down and catering to the vidya-playing masses.
Seriously, when 3rd edition came out, assholes were screaming "It's just tabletop Diablo!" No joke.
4e had some things I liked and some things I didn't like, but the WoW comparison was never anything more than "normies are invading our hobby!!!!!" secret-club bullshit.
Bentley Mitchell
How was it "basically WoW" besides those differences?
Charles Baker
Ok
So you've explained why they would do it, and it's perfectly valid, but "because it is" doesn't describe how
I've seen the side arguing that it's wrong, I'd like to see how it's right
Thomas Sullivan
>Forgive me, but how is being 100% dependent on having a mat and miniatures tied to being "WoW on tabletop"?
Absolutely nothing.
Bit older and newer versions of DnD don't NEED to have mats / maps and a "thing" to denote where you are on said map. Some classes depend on being the right distance from a target to perform an ability. Or they're squishy and need to keep their distance. Another example is needing to fall back and not having yourself get flanked because of that movement.
Bottom line is that being aware of your surroundings can save your characters life. And a physical representation helps with that a lot.
Bentley Morris
By the way I know this is you trying to bait but:
In the real world people who like modern DnD are either 3.PF fans or 5e fans, Veeky Forums is the only place you can find 4e fans or people defending this edition, I have never ever met someone in real life who actually plays it nowadays.
This is because Veeky Forums is contrarian by nature so when a system is called shit by 99% of the people they have the need to say that it is good, that they like it and play ot, just like everything else, it is a chan attitude of being against popular opinions.
Matthew Lewis
3rd edition is tabletop diablo plus a huge brick of rules that tries to shield players from shitty DMs, which is the dumbest thing ever because bad DMs will be bad no matter how many corner cases you write down in your dumb rules.
I used to say that and I still say it. 3rd edition is by far the worst edition of DnD.
Carter Hernandez
>You disagree with me, therefore you must be actively contrarian rather than actually believing your own argument.
There's a name for this logical fallacy, but I can't remember what it is.
Lucas Jackson
The short versions: Piazo is an independent developer who did a spinoff of 3rd edition called Pathfinder. Starfinder is a derivative sci-fi RPG based on their previous title. Outside of the core mechanics of Patfhinder, they're not associated with D&D or Wizards in anyway.
Dungeons and Dragons has been a thing since the 70s, so of course there've been several updates. Typically people who like the/a prior edition just keep playing it, and people who like the new version better switch over to it, but after Wizards took over they labor under the illusion that each subsequent edition has to be this big huge stonking change. While 5e was more of a return to form, 4th to 3rd, and especially 3rd to 2nd are less and less recognizable as legacy games. Regardless, 3rd and 5th are the more highly regarded modern variants, and with many 3rd players switching to Pathfinder, 5E's on the fast-track to becoming the new, definitive modern D&D title (Until 6th).
Many people don't even play D&D or D&D-derivative games, like Savage Worlds, GURPS, or Legend of The Five Rings. While D&D is the flagship title in the eyes of most people both inside and outside of the hobby, it is just one game in a small sea of options.
Typically people don't really care who plays what, and in most places "edition wars," are typically just some playful ribbing of your cohorts. Truly disparate places like Veeky Forums are the only places where edition wars get any real attention or have any measurable weight. By n' large nobody actually cares what games you prefer.
If this is a real story, that guy is actually himself a grognard, and is best ignored. He'll lose interest if you don't give him any attention.
Parker Morris
Am I a grognard for playing Rolemaster?
John Moore
Edition wars are for cocksuckers. Only teenage autists are serious about them.
t. former teenage autist. I'm just glad to play anything these days.
