/STG/ - Star Trek General

What the actual fuck

...what the fuck happened to this technology? Why has it literally never come up ever since? What the actual fuck, STD, what the fuck is this shit?

So, it's confirmed that they're S31 ships? So STD literally is "Section 31: The Show".

I thought klingons were allies

Nah, in STD's era, the Klinks and Feds are at war, because First Officer Imma Bitch decided to go to war with them.

Its not specifically stated to be Section 31 but there are Black Op Starfleet Officers aboard. You can tell because they were black badges. Most likely its Starfleet Intellegence

Surely First Officer Michael Perfection, Spock's adopted half-sister and the ONLY human to ever attend the Vulcan Gender Studies Academy, developed and maintains this mushroom-laden Sporp Drive.

Its stated that the Klingons in STD are fragmented into 24 warring Great Houses. One low level house attempts to unify them by baiting the Federation and provoking them. Federation reacts predictably and the Klingon responsible for the trap successfully persuades the rest of the Great Houses to go to war with the Federation.

He is later then killed by First Officer Cold Bitch in which that makes him a martyr and the entire Klingon Empire rallies to war with an even more fevered pitch of war boners.

>you know what's a good idea?
>explicitly marking our spies

At least the titles of eps three and four are fucking amazing.

There are numerous cues that Discovery is a S31 ship.

But it's not specifically stated. Section 31 and Starfleet Intelligence have overlap in their operational purview. Those same cues could be alluding to SFI

As someone pointed out last thread S31 doesn't even let people within Starfleet or the Federation know about their organization. They aren't going to walk around with color codes badges. Starfleet Intelligence which is an altogether much more above board organization probably would.

Well based on S31's previous behaviors its not unusual for them to co-opt entire ships for their own needs.

It could well be a research vessel that S31 is secretly holding the lease for. The Captain of the Discovery has a collection of aliens and a dead Gorn as a trophy.

But they still wouldn't be so blatant with the allegiance.

, You're both overlooking the the simpler explanation; that Section 31 is not involved and the actual writers have next to not knowledge of Trek since they actually fired the original show runner that DID know about Trek and that they legitimately think Starfleet is a military organization and so are writing it as one complete with a black ops division.

Never assume a plan when the other explanation is "fucking morons", because Hollywood and the TV industry is stocked with and run by fucking morons.

>spore drive
>corpses of sapient beings as trophies

The more I hear about STD, the more retarded it gets.

This.

Why the fuck is Hollywood so full of fuckups

Because it's an enterprise based on creativity that instead is run by producers who's creative ability is limited to large pocketbooks that allow them to dictate what goes into the show or film since they are paying for all of it.
There's even an episode of that Supernatural series that actually highlights the absurdity of it (and does so in such a way of pointing off the changes made in their own series).

Basically, the explanation is money.

Wasn't that the whole "thing" behind the TOS Romans ep?

I fucking hate that this is the actual reason, until stated otherwise. It just reinforces my belief that STD is better off as not a Star Trek show, kinda like Enterprise was, and it just got the name as a way to keep the franchise alive.

>ent wasn't really trek
Only season 3 which i kinda liked desu

>As someone pointed out last thread S31 doesn't even let people within Starfleet or the Federation know about their organization. They aren't going to walk around with color codes badges.
You're probably right, but something tells me the STD creators wouldn't care about that.

Unsure.
Agreed.
Some later bits of Enterprise where they did the Romulan War stuff is where the writing team had their shit together, at least for a short while.

It's a black ship with black badges, black alert, and black Burnham. Its registry ends in 31. Its mission is secret squirrel shit. Killing a shuttle pilot was literally the first thing the ship did to get Burnham on board. It's Section 31.

Sure hope you're right and not me
That would show a little bit of actual planning on the side of the creators.

Ironically that would mean that this entire series ultimately revolves around a crew of failure who started a cold war that a greater and better man stoped twenty years later.

So, in Star Trek Adventures, how does Escalation on certain items work?

It's a ship named after a space shuttle other than Enterprise. It was doomed from the beginning.

Tamarians are what happens when you adopt memes as your primary form of communication before you even invented writing.

Goatse, his hands wide.

Wojack, his smile dead.

At least we know that it's going to fail so badly that the Federation never talks of it again.

Unless it does, and TOS/TNG/DS9/VOY get retconned.

That would be a good way for them to get rid of a lot of viewers.

Fans enjoy continuity. TV writers bitch and moan if you tell them to watch all the existing Trek and consult Memory Alpha before penning a new script. Doing a prequel series this close to TOS reduces the space of canon compliant scripts into a box a tribble couldn't hide in. Hell, the fact that they're doing holographic programming instead of using tape libraries is already a minor retcon of TOS.

The Klingons motivations make sense. Remember Quark's talk with Garak comparing the Federation to Root Beer ?
youtube.com/watch?v=6VhSm6G7cVk

T'Kuuvma saw the same thing. He saw that peaceful contact with the Federation would change Klingon culture. He didn't want to prevent that. So he started a war. Win, and the Fedeartion is no more. Lose, and you have enough angry Klingons that there is likely to be another way. Either way, his plan works.

It only failed because the Organians stepped in to prevent outright war.

>He is later then killed by First Officer Cold Bitch in which that makes him a martyr
While she is on a mission to capture him alive, after she told everyone exactly why killing him would be a bad idea. She switched her phaser from stun to kill just to shoot him.

Star Trek TOS onwards was about a competent crew trying to maintain the moral high ground even when doing so is hard and/or risky.

STD is a show about incompetence and not even trying to keep the moral high ground.

They could used the Abrams timeline. They could have told a similar plot using a new species set after DS9/Voyager (the galaxy is big place, plenty of room for a major faction to hide). Either way they could have avoided a lot of continuity trouble. They might have even been able to make it work with Klingons in a post DS9 series.

Instead they chose to set themselves this close to TOS. They chose to claim that they were in the Prime Timeline. They chose to make it hard for themselves. I will hold them to the standard they chose.

Enterprise, Abrams movies, STD. Three series in a row that don't even try to advance the timeline. Why are those involved in production so afraid of advancing the timeline.

More like Wojak, his face when.

Legally they could not have used the Abrams timeline.

Why not ?

Still, they have three other choices:
- Put in the effort a prequel requires to fit with continuity. Which seems to be more effort than setting it after existing canon.
- Post-DS9.
- New timeline.

, Hey, at least my 2395 game isn't "non-canon" since the retards at Paramount apparently don't want to advance the timeline at all.

>They might have even been able to make it work with Klingons in a post DS9 series.

Post destruction of Romulus, the Star Empire is falling apart and the Klingons and the Federation have WIDELY different ideas about what to do about it. While the Federation is focused on the humanitarian disaster brought about by the collapse, the Klingons want to take the opportunity to fragment the Romulan people in a way that prevents them from ever being a competing power again. Is the Federation willing to enter a hot war with the Klingons in order to protect Romulan planets from being absorbed by the Empire? And it's not just about protecting Romulans as every planet the Klingons are able to absorb shifts the balance of power between the Klingons and the Federation in the Empire's favor.

JJtrek rights are owned by Paramount. The show is being made by CBS, who own the prime universe rights. I actually do wonder who has the rights to approve a new timeline. I would assume CBS, but I could also imagine it having to be something both CBS and Paramount have to agree to.

The problem with advancing the timeline is 24 seasons and ten movies of accumulated bullshit space magic. To a fan, the obvious conclusion is to slap QSD and the Voyager goodies on the hero ship and have them boldly go deep into the beta or gamma quadrants while still returning home every now and then, or to slap QSDs on an entire fleet and colonize one of the Magellanic clusters, or to "level up" and start dealing with the OP races from earlier series as peers.

The problem is that to make an advanced civilization setting like that work, you need consistency and good writing. Executive meddling, Trek writer squabbles, and Rick Fucking Berman have been getting in the way of that for sixteen years, three movies, and two series now.

Don't forget mirror universe, contemporary with one of the other series but in a different area, and holodeck simulation.

Are the abrams movies ANY good?

You add threat equal to the Escalation into the Threat Pool.

I think it's supposed to represent that like, bringing a Type-3 Phaser rifle on an Away Mission means you're looking for trouble and likely to find it. I do like the Escalation mechanic, because it sort of emulates how the TV shows would go. Obviously no one is going to have heavy duty weaponry in any given episode unless it's going to be used at some point, after all.

>takes places long before TOS
>there's a dead Gorn trophy

>security fires hand-held phasers without even aiming

I have no idea how they manage to be so accurate. Do they lock onto targets or something?

Holographic targeting implants in the eyes maybe? I don't even know. It's probably best not to think about it, just treat it like you would an action movie hero hip-firing an assault rifle or something.

>action movie hero hip-firing an assault rifle

it makes me really angry

They're fun space action movies, though in many ways they feel less Trek and more Wars.
To their credit, they do throw quite a few references to the classic series into it, sometimes in small ways you actually have to look for.
They are extremely action-heavy, but Trek films are always more action-packed then Trek shows due to simply not being constrained by budget limits.

So basically they're fun but nothing particularly special. Without the Trek label they'd probably be forgotten fairly quickly.

In all fairness, the Type-2 phasers from the TNG era shows would be AWFUL to aim with, recoil or no.
They are held and pointed at an awkward angle and don't naturally follow the contuer and pointing mechanics of the human arm, so they already fail pretty hard at being practical defensive weaponry.
Type-1 Phasers are worse; they're as small as your fucking car keys and their design would be near impossible to get a solid grip on, mostly because you can't grip it at all.

No kidding. They look like those supermarket barcode scanners. There is no way to aim those things unless you're at extremely close range. I remember a TNG episode that started with Picard and Riker talking while doing target practice on the holodeck or something. They'd just raise their hands and accurately beam moving targets every single time with their car keys. When I hold my keys there's no way to even tell which way they're pointed at without feeling for the parts of the key, it's a mess

TNG phasers clearly had some form of auto aiming built in. Just point in the vicinity of the target and let the phaser do the aiming.

This actually makes sense when you consider the phaser banks are just sets of lenses on the ships outer hull.

I'm now imagining a Miranda class with a big pair of glasses on the front. Hmm.

Anybody think the mushroom drive is related to fluidic space, species 8472 shit? I mean, its funky shit, but biological warp drives/quantum singularity has Star trek precedent even if its culling from worst trek.

Honestly that's giving them too much credit. I'm willing to guess that it's completely unrelated, though I would love to be proved wrong.

The Elachi are fungus that infects and transforms people. Dead people but the fungus is infectious and can make people dead so it amounts to the same. In any case they spread via infectious spores.

The Elachi are allies of the Iconians in STO. Iconions are all about folding space.

Elachi were introduced in ENT but at that point were still using conventional warp drives.

This could be them first stumbling on to remnants of old left behind tech and adapting their shit to work with it. They hunt for more left behind Iconian stuff and it eventually has them encounter the last of the Iconians and wakes them from their long sleep in time for the events of STO.

Section 31 has managed to steal and reverse engineer an Elachi hybrid engine or has built one of their own using stolen information.

This will not be in the show. In the show it will be "we invented this because we're just so good. Then we forget it again in time for Kirk because of course we fucking do".

Beyond actually started leaning a bit more towards actual Trek in my opinion, didn't like the others much, but they were decent action films.

>In the show it will be "we invented this because we're just so good. Then we forget it again in time for Kirk because of course we fucking do".

I'm hoping the reason that it's never talked of again is because it goes horribly wrong. But I will admit that I won't be surprised if the writers say that it works, then never explain why it gets forgotten.

It does work. It works beautifully.

I will never not be mad that they lost the original version of this film.

I thought they found it in a Romanian salt mine or something.

Salt mine in Transylvania. Degraded beyond restoration.

They've inadvertently sexually assaulted the Q continuum. Their research, the tech everything will just be forcefully retconned out of existence by the Q.
Who are actually just sentient mushrooms.

Probably a better ending than the one we will get.

Did that version have just more terrifying/gory scenes or was anything else changed ?
I can't even begin to wonder how that happened

>sexually assaulted the Q

I want to see this

It's funny how people say things like "It's hard to write good stories in the 24th century because tech like the replicator makes things too easy.", then we get a prequel where the key mcguffin is something that couldn't be replicated anyway.

...

I wonder how all the captains would react to Event Horizon (With possibly Dr. Weir on board) if it ever appeared on their path.

>That episode where Picard's archeological curiosity almost dooms the crew of Enterprise, as he allows a mysteriously alive pre-warp scientist found on derelict ship to board enterprise.

The biggest difference between Orville and STD that makes Orville feel more like Trek is the lighting. Everything in STD is dark and dramatic while the Orville looks like TNG. I think Seth Macfarland might be a secret genius in seeing the market for a real Trek show when STD went this dumb route.

That's certainly what I've been hearing.
The Orville appears to be doing Star Trek's positive future better than Discovery does, which goes dark and gritty.
Now I just need to wait for a service available in this country to actually watch the bloody thing.

Technically Enterprise advanced the timeline with all the stuff we learn about the future via the Temporal Cold War.

It's not much, but it's more than STD is pulling off.

It helps that Seth is also a genuine, unabashed Trekkie. No one can do a better parody of a thing than genuine fans, as we've learned in the past.

Although after years of "deconstructing" Trek (with the JJ films, the novels, and arguably DS9 too), it also helps that McFarlen seems to be focused on REconstructing it.

...

>REconstructing it.

That.

Because by 'eck did we need something to show that the idea of everything not being shit and everyone not being assholes to each other all the time was still possible.

Anyone else worried that STD will have the crew torture someone for information ?

And try to play it off as the right thing to do ?

While failing to mention mind melds ?

It's a pretty likely scenario. Look at the Captain's weird ass trophy room. He's already admitted to being ok with doing whatever is necessary to win the war.

Well, Deep space 9 had more than one episode where the moral was "terrorism is good" and so

yes on all counts I imagine.
Though I imagine Burnham may mention mind-melds, but since she's not a Vulcan, that's fairly pointless, so the torture goes ahead.
Haven't seen any Vulcans in the Discovery crew so far, or did I not watch closely enough?

I don't think there's any established alien species beyond Sarek shown.

I fully expect that will happen.
I fully expect they'll also slip in a rape/mind rape episode somewhere because those ALWAYS work out great.

In short, I expect them to do everything modern tv typically does to keep things continually tense and upsetting because how soap operas work is now how you keep all audiences engaged these days apparently.

Also you need training for mind-melds, vulcans aren't born knowing how to do it. By ENT the art was almost extinct.

Mind rape against the unwilling isn't much better though.

Why not? Betazoids see no problem with it.

Odd that it seems to become more common later in the time-line.
But it would make sense for the skill to be really rare around Discovery's time?

The difference between a mind meld and torture is that a mind meld is a reliable way to get information.

Doesn't that hot Vulcan Marquis woman try to mind meld with someone in DS9 and it fails?

Trying to get into out of Dukat.
It didn't work very well.

It's basically down to writers and good they are writing.

Most script writers seem to hate the fact that show has established story going on and they have to actually watch the show before they start writing on it, most seem to think it bounds their creativity, that the setting allready have McGuffins that could solve the problems they created.

This was actually reason why they went in the Star Trek past with Enterprise as Braga and his goon squad thought they could not write good stories with all the shitty stuff they used to solve issues in Voyager.

I've occasionally wondered about the Vulcan mindmeld and its ability to tap into things that it by all reason, shouldn't be able to. Like the Nomad probe or the Horta.

I think I'll put a lot of that down to it just being TOS (they skipped on that stuff a ton later on) rather than try and come up with some grand unified theory of a consciousness dimension that the mindmeld taps into in or the like. Because that would just be silly.