Infinity General: When Subtlety Fails Edition

I've been watching a few battle reports and ghazis seem really strong. am I missing something?

Nope. They are one of the few actual bullshit op units in the game.

I mean muttawiah

No. They're widely considered to be bullshit since they got buffed with smoke grenades.

Removing their smoke is one of the few houserules that actually seems to work out well.

Besides the Posthumans, the single most broken unit in the game by virtue of costing next to nothing.

Work continues on the USAriadna force. Basecoats and washes applied. It's nice to be painting something that's not a monstrous human (Orks, Trollbloods).
I think I'm going to throw in the towel on edge highlights. I'm not good enough to do it on these small models. Might try some very light drybrushing.

Are they really that bad? I really like their style.

>by virtue of costing next to nothing
It's really more than that, otherwise all warbands would be bullshit. The main problem with Ghazi is how easily they threaten everything. E/Marats make them extremely effective against bigger stuff chain rifles don't scare (at far longer range than CC), jammers mean that even walls can't stop them, and smoke+dogged provides them with multiple highly effective defensive abilities that make it easier to reach their targets.

Remove the smoke. Jammers are optional. They're still really good, but it takes away a lot of the bullshit as using them effectively suddenly requires support from other units and they become more vulnerable.

Nothing is THAT bad in Infinity. Posthumans aren't really even bad at all, I've never seen people have trouble dealing with them. Infinity is less about your list and more about how you use it.

But Ghazis are probably the most unfair and poorly balanced unit in the game. The probably shouldn't have smoke.

>Posthumans aren't really even bad at all, I've never seen people have trouble dealing with them
Posthumans are more of an internal balance problem than external desu, it's less their capabilities and more their cost that is an issue. There's no reason not to take them because the cheaper ones are a negligible amount of points for 3 fantastic units.

As a Haqq player, yes. They're undercosted for what they offer. And as they're dirt cheap, everyone and their goat includes them.

The price together with the equipment package is just stupidly good. Put them in a proper position, and they can shut down a huge part of the table. They are one of the only units with universal utility, which by itself is already amazing. Then you look at the price and realise that the best speedbump in the game costs you jackshit to deploy.
They will always pay back their cost with interests when deployed smartly.

Yeah, I can see that. I literally don't think I've ever seen anyone drop a Dasyu, because there's nothing they can do that Posthumans can't do cheaper.

It's the fact that like warbands they make up for their extreme impetuousness and irregularity for being highly skilled and deadly in their threat range, but unlike warbands instead of paying for CC over twenty, kinematika, meta-chemistry/martial arts and other rad skills for the risk vs reward aspect, they instead get a second template weapon and a jammer.

That's pretty good, but it's not totally game breaking as the isolated state is kinda niche, it affects mainly link teams (unless they have Vet like Bolts or Morats), or expensive units like HI or TAGs (which, mind you, Warbands can deal high damage against too).

So on paper, it may seem pretty good that a five point model can counter an unaware higher point model by immobilizing or isolating them, but then you remember the following that keeps this niche use from being too OP, as the units they counter have counters of their own:

It's only damage 13, and one burst. If you use the E/Marat they can still dodge, with most HI having on average PH 13 or better it's easy to dodge. If the jammer is targeting someone, they can still reset, which, I'll grant, is harder to eschew than a dodge but still an option. B1 WIP 15 vs WIP ~13 isn't all that much into your favor.

Jammers/E/Marat are still only damage 13, high BTS of the worried TAGs is still likely to pass, as well as most HI having a decent or better chance than 50/50 to pass the damage roll with BTS 3 or higher.

Even if you can jam through walls, it can still be worked around with stealth (which comes included with Martial Arts, and a lot of premium HI/Rambos include that). It's obvious if you're trying to do it in the active turn, which again as they don't have stealth/martial arts the opponent can easily declare dodge/reset.

(tbc...)

And also, it can be repaired with an Engineer.

Engineers tend to be the neglected specialist often left untaken, so you'll often see people mad their troop got immobilized but they didn't, or chose to ignore, plan for the contingency.

And lastly, for the majority of units, being isolated isn't a big deal. You're still alive, you can still do actions.

And sure, smoke synergizes well in cost with MSV2, but the Djanbazan has a bit of a price bloat between Multi-terrain and regeneration.

As another note, people who have problem with Extreme Impetuous and irregular units probably have a few things outside of stats/lists going against them. Too much terrain on the board is a likely factor. Not taking/placing mines, TR Bots, or other soft counters and other speed bumps can be another thing.

Yeah. 80% of warband complaining is causef by inexperience and bad terrain setup. Shooting behind wall is "rad" if most of the board is covered with such terrain.

No. Just like Scarface in the last season, this rule only lasts through Season 9.

I have. It was back in 2ed.

All these things can be explained on their own and don't seem too bad, because alone they're not too bad. That's why taking away smoke actually works, because the tools Ghazi use aren't inherently busted, it's just the whole package together that is too excessive. The rules weren't much different pre-HSN3 aside from those unnecessary smoke grenades.

You're underselling E/M a bit here, and massively underselling isolation. Even if it's just a 35% chance for the E/Marat to shut down a TAG, that's still 35% chance to completely shut down a TAG. Especially fun if you can force active turn dodges with it, and honestly it's more reliably useful for area denial than anything else with a threat range far further than CC. E/M is feared by those it affects, and for good reason.

Engineers often take multiple orders to get to and operate on their target, and may not have a safe way there. If your opponent manages to kill your engineer then you're just fucked.
I have noticed that engis are very underappreciated though.

>And lastly, for the majority of units, being isolated isn't a big deal. You're still alive, you can still do actions.
Correction: You can do one action. Anything you plan on putting orders into is crippled by isolation, and not that many pure defensive units are hanging out in the midfield (there are a few, but they're outnumbered by things like specialists and doorkickers). I've seen what a well placed Oblivion can do, and being able to do that against skirmishers and LI/MI link teams is amazing.

No, it's still rad on sensible terrain. It allows them to deny ground with no threat of reprisal, which is a very valuable ability. Not game breaking by itself, but still rad.

I think I would be fine with Ghazi if you just straight up removed the chain rifle profile.

>Jammers/E/Marat are still only damage 13, high BTS of the worried TAGs is still likely to pass, as well as most HI having a decent or better chance than 50/50 to pass the damage roll with BTS 3 or higher.

You are underselling this.
E/M halves BTS. Even the Avatar has a 40% chance at getting immobilized. The Ghazi is a threat to basically everything in the game (even Morats and Bolts can be chain rifled). And it can do probably the most frustrating thing tucked safely behind a wall. All for 5 points, they are so good it is silly not to take the max AVA of them every time you start a Haq list.

Why does my camera have an instant thick paint filter all the time?

looks like a sontaran

the ghazi does nothing to may army. those stupid OP viral mines and viral guns on the other hand should be banned and removed.

>the ghazi does nothing to may army
Morats?
If it's literally anything else your opponents just haven't taken full advantage of them yet. Ghazis are fucking nasty things.

Muyibs are also pretty fucked though, viral mines are just one of their many talents. They could do with a little versatility taken off the top.

Is that confirmed? The pilot rules for the various TAGs from Tagline also stuck around.

I'm going to throw plenty of guesses for reasons why. BAD LIGHTING. Not properly focusing camera. Wrong settings that aren't macro. Not saving images in a format other than jpg, so like saving in png. Not resizing to a smaller picture.

That's a nice looking Mod tho.

I think we'll see. They might want to test the ice before making it permanent.

I play ariadna.

>drown them with bodies: the Faction

Ariadna can be isolated except for Vet Kazaks, and their HI are still immobilized L2 by EM weaponry.

I`ve been collecting ariadna for a few years now and I feel like it would be good time to brach out.
I like aleph, but have hated the greeks all the way from beginning. I know they haven`t gotten vedic yet and it`ll take prolly a few dogs years from the spaniards to release it, but I`d rather go with them than steel phallus. What should I buy?

>tl:dr what to get first for vedic?

>what to get first for Vedic
Post humans, Danavas, Dakini, remotes in general.

At least that's the impression I got. Maybe Nagas too?

As many Marut and Asura as you can get.

FUCKING GHAZI

It's okay to play Ghazi and use what you have in your arsenal. It's not like Ghazi are unbeatable, they have a tendency to run into mines, Crazy Koalas, or Nisse range.

The starter is pretty solid. Beyond that you'll want a Sophotect box, some Posthumans and maybe a Garuda.

Yeah, they are even better at isolating Ariadna because of faction-wide 0 BTS. Ariadnan Heavy Infantry is non-hackable, but it's not immune to E/M either, so while Ghazi cannot Isolate a Vet Kazak, he can sure Immobilize him.
And let's not forget the HSN3 buff: Smoke Grenades. Nothing in Ariadna has MSV2, good luck stopping that Ghazi + Djanbazan combo.
And at 5pts Ghazi can trade favorably with most Ariadnan troops as well. Even the Galwegians are more expensive than them.

Starter box is good, and the posthumans and sophotect box like the other anons said.

I'd highly recommend the taking HMG, he's a monster when given marksman l2. Danavas for the cheap HD+ is great, and I'd recommend a box of the flash pulse/FO/HMG remotes for some repeater coverage. Everything else is to taste, there's nothing really that's too bad. I like fucking with Nagas, and the garuda model is sick

HMG dakini, that is.

My proxy choices are typically the mk2 hacker, mk4 HRL, and mk5 FO

Every time I look at my warbands I think 'Man, these jaguars seem pretty cool,' and then you remind me these assholes exist.

Fuck ghazis. Fuck them with a rusty rake.

I'm gonna start basing my army on nice bases soon and because I've painted my PanO with a white/blue theme and planning to put snow on their urban bases I figured I might as well just take the plunge, go full Die Hard and give them some tertiary Christmas themes.

I've found resin jack-o-lanterns, which is pretty cool but not what I'm looking for. Anyone got some suggestions? A lot of the diorama stuff from Hobby Lobby is way bigger than a 25mm miniature.

Oh, and like, litter and stuff. Anywhere good to buy cans to decorate with? Guess I'm asking a lot of questions about this. Thanks in advance.

But user, Viral ammunition IS banned! By the Concilium Convention!

What are the other ones?

Posthumans. Those are the two main ones.

Not that guy but I'd say the Su-Jian is a close third.

chain rifles are dumb and a lot of units with them are undercosted

Have you tried not being terrible at the game?

starter set, support pack, post humans, remotes gets you most of what youneed

Jaguars are pretty cool though. They provide a solid order base and the Panzerfaust one are great disposable ARO pieces, although 0.5 SWC means I usually can't use them that way.
And if you're playing vanilla, the Nomad Furry Guided Missile has few equals.

>▶
I normaly just swarm them in dogs, mines and tokens they do not work on. never had problems with them.

Work continues still. Two down, one to go!
I think I might add like a Squad logo or something. Make them not so monotone. However, I know jack squat about the lore other than these guys are from Ariadna and they're American. Suggestions?

They're hardly OP, just incredible i think. Hackers and E/M can froze them and they'll burn orders quite fast, especially against well positioned enemies (last time i force my opponents Su Jian to enter Cautious all day)

Also:
All 5 Posthumans
The Deva/Devabot package
Naga Sniper
ALL the Dakini

Technically every unit has its own logo. They're what you see in Army.

As for lore, we have an OP link for that.

should I clean and assemble some models I got in the mail today or should I go to sleep on time tonight so I am not falling asleep during my wageslave job tomorrow

oh, fair enough
I don't think I like the "PLEASE SHOOT ME HERE" stars the official color scheme goes with

Squad logo is really fucking sick. You thinking about basing it off of their use it logo or doing your own thing?

Foxtrot?

See
?

Sleep user, take care of yourself. Minis can wait.

t. gommy

Depends on where you put the logo

Sleep. You need a rested mind to pay attention to voting for higher wages and making clear arguments against the ignorant

good night anons, will post progress pics over the weekend

Protip kids: Rem Pres TAGs are effectively immune to possession. Just dismount the remote pilot as either your ARO or the 2nd half of an order, and the enemy can't use the TAG until they kill the remote pilot and then reset successfully, which isn't easy.
Clear the possession and remount (or reset) when safe.

>possession fails
>you just gimped your TAG for nothing
Genous!

Wait, you talking about crabbots and the likes?
God damnit, I never realised that interaction worked.

I imagine this is an edge-case strategy in case shit goes wrong.

Is there a good Army Builder for phones?

The Army? Works for me.

Sup Veeky Forums

I'm having a slow day at work so I'm going to spend some of it cleaning up some writefaggotry I did the other week. Expand it, spellcorrect, etc. It'd all in greenest form right now. Would people prefer

1. Get it cleaned up to proper narrative sentences and make it paragraphical

Or

2. Keep the greentext, expand on the simple short sentence writing format

Just curious what people prefer to read. Either way I'm dumping it into an easy pastebin

Option 2.

>not meming it up at all times

The crabbot is a 0BTS hackable REM. This seems like a short term strategy.

I would want to build an army with wu ming HRL model and the Zhandzin Hacker, which other models do I need and what army should I play to get normal sized points list?

Crabbot can be hacked and disabled, sure. But it can't be possessed. Running into an assault hacker and getting possessed on your turn is the worst case scenario, because the enemy now has a disposable TAG for their next 6-10 orders.
I'd rather guarentee I don't get fucked, than risk them sending it back and wrecking me.
Don't forget, stuff like Crabbot don't matter if they die. The TAG's still on the board.

>Jotum has AVA 2 in vanilla PanO
How does one make a list based on The Frost-Giant's Daughter?

2x Jotums. One may be a LT if you desire.
1x Machinist with 2x PalBots.
2 Fusiliers
3 Fusilier forward Observers.
2 Fugazi Drones

Get wrecked, Yu Jing.

I think a Tech-Bee is needed to act as Atali, the eponymous daughter,

Remove all the forward observers and one of the Palbots. 2nd Battlegroup of Tech-bee and WarCor.

Came up with something like this instead.
Considering the Crabbots it's not actually that light on specialists, but I still would rather use it in a killy type mission than a clicker one.

Alright, here we go, "Jaeger und Orc"

pastebin.com/pZ1pSS3H

I was inspired by the new Cube Jaeger profile to explore how someone like that might operate among a human army. I liked the cuteness of other short stories that people posted about medics and patients, but I wanted a bit more drama and visceral feeling. I used an Orc because Orcs are underused but also very likely candidates to be blown up by a TO Missile Launcher. They also have a Duo, which worked for the scene.

I despise that they show the Monofilament CCW as a polearm. I much prefer thinking of it as a high tech Cube removal scalpel. Though in Hans' case, I wanted to leave it ambiguous if he just took the exploded Cube, or the entire head.

I'm willing the entertain requests for a Part 3 with Orc-chan and Jaeger-kun some time later at camp.

>I much prefer thinking of it as a high tech Cube removal scalpel.

That is a much better concept. I mean, where the fuck are they packing that huge polearm? It seems like a ridiculous weapon to wield alongside a boarding shotgun or a rifle.

>I mean, where the fuck are they packing that huge polearm?
Up their asses.

the mobile version of the official builder works fine for me

Medic!

>tfw no crossfaction rules
>you will never be a knight hospitallier desperately trying to keep the civilians in stable condition as you and the daktari sweep the room every five seconds, trying not to focus on the gunfire of the desperadoes, kum bikers, and morlacks dropping away one by one
>the Kazak LMGs and Auxilia guns clatter - then drop
>you hear one of the tohaa scream
>you will never try not to hyperventilate as the Akbar offers some encouraging words of wisdom and you look into his eyes - he's not afraid to die and you want to punch him because you don't want to die lightyears away from home
>you will never break into the cold sweat as the fire starts up again, but this time, it's the distinct sound of the SAS and Spektrs' boarding shotguns going off
>you will never hear nothing but you, the daktari, and the akbar breathing shallowly, trying to get the civilians quiet, trying to stop the little girl in the back as you hear the telltale sound of Morat boots stomping closer

>you will never be repaired by an emancipated Kosuil while your loyal human soldiers defend you from their own kind
I can't transcend to this

Got a preview from Arizona Armageddon for a new set of sculpts coming out.