Traveller General

MegaTraveller, basebook and DGP's World Builder's Guide.
Other options: GURPS Traveller; First In; GURPS 4e Space (and then translate world data to UWP).

MegaTraveller looks really detailed (especially with the World Builder's Guide) so thanks a bunch for pointing me in that direction!
Just curious how balanced it is with MgT1e (the edition I'll probably be using for core rules) or MgT2e?

Oh, it's fine, all the numbers for the UWP are the same.

So, general consensus is that OTU-wise, GURPS books tend to be among if not the best from a fluff standpoint, and mongoose is the worst?

Yep. The sheer detail they go into is amazing.
Mongoose is just shit - remember, they turned the Aslan into Thundercats.

GT fluff is amazing, well up to GURPS high standards in that regard.

One of GDW's and Traveller's Great Old Ones, Loren Wiseman, worked at SJGames as the GT line editor. SJGames almost always selects writers who are knowledgeable regrading the topic begin covered rather than knowledgeable about GURPS. They figure they have plenty of people who can add the RPG stuff so it's better the get the non-RPG stuff correct. Forex: "Far Trader" was written by an economist.

The problem with GT fluff is that it's couched in GURPS terms an thus harder to translate into versions which are more in line with the 2D6 systems used by CT and nearly all the others.

As for MgT, SJGames hired an economist to write their trader splat and Mongoose hired someone how thought the armed "merchant marine" referred to armed guards in ships.

>(If there's already an open-source tool out there that does this, I'd be willing to look at tweaking it, but I'd prefer to build one from the ground up)

Build all you want, but you're not going to do better than "Heaven & Earth".

Don't forget that, while most from Classic's Book 6 onward will produce a wealth of detail, none of Traveller's many "sysgens" are accurate or correct in a scientific sense. None can produce the types of exoplanets and their locations we're routinely detecting these days. You're going to be able to generate full systems, but you won't generate something like the wondrous Trappist-6.

When I get back from work, I'll post probability comparison tables. As I said, it's the only way to actually convert between the two.

>Heaven & Earth
I'll give that a look.

Also, as far as producing such "out there" systems as Trappist-6, that's part of the reason I wanted to write my own/edit an open source project. If I have control over the generation routines, I can tweak them to better meet whatever specs I need without just throwing in pre-built systems/sectors.

>Mongoose hired someone who thought the armed "merchant marine" referred to armed guards in ships
In all fairness, most people hear 'marine' they think of the armed forces branch, it's a simple enough mistake

Yeah, I agree it's pretty minor. It's the sort of trivial thing any decent editor could catch before it hit print. Know where Mongoose could find one?

>You're going to be able to generate full systems, but you won't generate something like the wondrous Trappist-6.
Wouldn't that just take some rule alterations? I'm surprised there's nothing for CE about (currently) scientifically accurate systems (this week)

>In all fairness, most people hear 'marine' they think of the armed forces branch

Bullshit. "Most" people aren't hired to write a $25 splat about the merchant service. If you're writing that book, you SHOULD know and, if you don't know, your editors should.

>>it's a simple enough mistake

Simple? No. It's a stupid and lazy mistake. It's also one that calls into question everything else in the splat. If he couldn't be bothered to get that right, what else did he fuck up?

>Wouldn't that just take some rule alterations?

You answer that question in your next sentence.

>I'm surprised there's nothing for CE about (currently) scientifically accurate systems (this week)

There isn't a model anymore or, more accurately, there isn't a model that won't be proven wrong next week. All the old stuff about Bode numbers, rocky planet close, gas giants far, etc. etc. has all been thrown out and nothing has yet replaced it. Every new exoplanet adds new data but not more understanding.

Adding to the "problem" is the fact that we know our current instruments & techniques can only detect planets over a certain size or in a certain orbit. While we can spot Jupiter, Saturn, and Neptune easily enough, detecting Mercury, Venus, and Mars depends more on a system's orientation WRT to Sol than anything else. So Sytem XYZ and it's hot Jupiter orbiting close to the primary may very well have many other planets we can't detect yet.

It's an exciting time to be a planetographer and a bad time to be a a RPG writer. We know just enough to realize all our current models are wrong and not enough to know how to replace them!

I could use some help, fellow Travellers.

Some time ago I read a pdf that offered an alternate scenario for the TNE era where the Virus subplot was vastly reduced.

Can anyone name that pdf and point me to where I can find it?

>We know just enough to realize all our current models are wrong and not enough to know how to replace them!
Give it a few years

It might be in the archive, no idea though, ask the librarian

>Give it a few years

I am. Until then, we'll have to use various sysgens we know are "broken'. That's why I'm reminding people that sysgen in a game artifact and nothing more.

Ask at COTI. Someone there would be sure to remember. Ask in the TNE forum too, not just in the general discussion forums.

There was a lot of post-TNE, alt-TNE, and other such work that appeared after GDW died and the internet became ubiquitous.

and if it's not in the archive, please, put it up for the rest of us, this sounds interesting

Let me second that excellent suggestion. If you do find it user , please post it here so it can be added to the Archive.

Ah, I found it. It's in the archive, under the TNE folder.

TNE - Traveller Renaissance (v1).pdf

Excellent. Thanks for the leg work.

I've read that before but I'll be damned if I can remember where/when. I was probably 2 pages in when it suddenly became familiar.

There's an alt-TNE or alt-MT work at Freelance called "Wounded Colossus". It was put together from a bunch of TML posts so it's repetitive in spots and lacks maps, diagrams, an anything other than text.

The idea behind it has Strephon not collapsing into a mental fugue when he receives news about the Assassination and instead continuing on towards Capital. IIRC, the navy Lt. who witnessed Lucan shoot and kill Varian immediately after the Assassination is broadcast in the Palace encounters Strephon's squadron heading home from Longbow-II instead of merely "disappearing" aboard a commandeered courier making as many jumps as quickly as possible away from Lucan.

Strephon and Lucan play cat & mouse for period in the Core Sector with forces Lucan send to arrest Strephon usually "defecting" instead. Strephon returns to the Throne rather than conquers it and then goes about dealing with Dulinor, the Sollies, the Vargr, the Aslan, and other with a large portion of the 3I still united behind him.

Shit still gets wrecked, just not as bad as in the OTU.

sounds interesting

I haven't read it in a while. It's very high level IIRC and would require a lot of work for a referee to implement. It talks about wars, trends, policies, and reforms at the Emperor's level with no actual dates, events, details, etc. at a table top play level.

ISTR the writer(s) cautioning the reader that the setting had been a proposal or pitch to their group(s) and wasn't used or played by them.

As promised, the probability comparison tables. May this help with conversions.

Thanks, user.

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Pics usually spark ideas for me, but that one is too twee. The "complex" was deliberately drawn to look too much like early computers with a CRT, various keyboards, CPU "towers", and even some tape reel cabinets tucked away in back.

Awww. Pretend the screen shows a giant Coca-Cola ad.

If the model is proven wrong next week, then it's correct or at least the best thing this week. Eventually we'll run out of surprises - maybe next week!

And this?

>And this?

Are you familiar with 2300AD? To me that looks exactly like what a Pentapod spacecraft should look. Nice find!

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what's a Pentapod?

Anyone ever try and port 2300 races to Traveller?

What's that from?

Jim Burns World's Apart, according to google

Aw crap, sorry. Thought that was the book author. T'was the artist I sought all along.

simple mistake, nothing to worry about

Or better yet, this is what is happening on the huge screen.

>what's a Pentapod?

They're an alien species in 2300AD who specialize in biotech.

>Anyone ever try and port 2300 races to Traveller?

I've used the Klaxun and Medusa. The former for a series of 1st contact type adventures and the latter for archeology stuff.

The Sung and Xiang have little compelling about them. There are dozens of Minors in Traveller which are pretty much the same thing; sentient flyers for the Sung and extreme sexual dimorphism for the Xiang.

The Kafers were something I wanted to use but couldn't quite fit into the OTU or OTU-ish settings I usually run. While they're great permanent bad guys and FPS targets, they psychological make-up means any Major Race which contacted them would be sure to either nuke them back into the stone age or just kill them all off. I toyed with the idea of making them a sentient version of the Chamax and having them appear in STL ships on backwater worlds, but never could make that work either.

I wanted to use the Pentapods but never got around to doing so.

...I know what the Kafer are, and the Sung, but what're the Klaxun and Medusa?

>but what're the Klaxun and Medusa?

The Klaxun are featured in a 2300AD splat called "The Energy Curve". They're mobile plants which become sessile/dormant during the planet's winter. They became sentient relatively recently in a geological sense. A truly recent development - more like a happy accident just a few generations ago - allowed some of them to develop sight which has led to what can broadly be called a "civilization".

They were a neat "WTF? They're sophonts! Holy shit!" discovery for my players.

The Medusa are in the "Notekundu"(?) splat. A Medusa skeleton, escape pod, and selection of tools is uncovered. They were exploring the region 10s or 100s of 1000s of years ago.

They were a neat archeological hook for my players because the Medusa left behind an organic & psionic "daytimer/iPhone" of sorts which activated after being removed from the escape pod and exposed to sunlight, O2, water, etc. The device's last orders were to "phone home" and so it began attempting to take over the minds of a few people in the archeological party to do just that. The Zhos then got involved because the device's incredibly powerful psionic "signature" was picked up by a passing Zho trader who immediately reported to a ZC patrol base in a nearby system.

I forgot to mention the Ylii, which is sad because polytaxic concept is a great one.

the...what?

Look it up.

Someone in the last thread requested T4 - Milieu 0
sendspace.com/file/oavxo8

A few more T4 books from a couple threads back.

T4 - Central Supply Catalog
www118.zippyshare.com/v/IaoQ5bWx/file.html
T4 - Emperor's Arsenal
www118.zippyshare.com/v/LcVyfKbD/file.html
T4 - First Survey
www118.zippyshare.com/v/FaoUuLvE/file.html
T4 - Milieu 0
www118.zippyshare.com/v/e21gVGKp/file.html
T4 - Naval Architect's Manual
www118.zippyshare.com/v/Tkq3pnYD/file.html
T4 - Psionic Institutes
www118.zippyshare.com/v/ffMKH0Av/file.html
T4 - Starships
www118.zippyshare.com/v/yhML5HTx/file.html

thanks user, be sure to try and flag down the librarian so they end up in the archive

A reminder to all spacers visiting Class D or lower ports - not everyone has cargo handling machinery!

Now if only more cargo came in road cases....

"That sounds like a Plan..."

Was used as a paperback cover for Worlds Apart by Haldeman.

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my group only wants to play starfinder, I want them to try traveller, so I have a moronic idea... try and hack starfinder into a higher lethality combat style, like in traveller, TNE RAW nonwithstanding.

Don't. Just get the D20tards to give Traveller a go. Chargen at the very least should have them wanting more.

I doubt it, but why do you think this?

Anyone think it'd be a good idea to stat an OGRE in Traveller?

sure - it would be LOTS tougher than a typical grav tank

there was a not-Ogre or not-Bolo in the old FGU Space Opera supplement Ground & Air Equipment

and wasn't there a GURPS Ogre book?

>and wasn't there a GURPS Ogre book?

Yes there is/was. For 3e IIRC.

>FGU Space Opera supplement Ground & Air Equipment
But that's not Traveller? Is it?

>But that's not Traveller? Is it?

It's not Traveller, but it is a Huge Fucking Tank complete with stats for a RPG. That means you'll have an easier time porting it to Traveller than you would starting from scratch.

Getting back to Ogres in Traveller, they're not a good fit for tech reasons. Among other things, the tech in the Ogre setting has static laser defenses which makes using aircraft suicidal, there are no gravitics meaning vehicles are track laying or hovercraft, there are no energy weapons carried by vehicles let alone men, and combat consists of tossing tac-nukes around.

Traveller has gravitics so even the heaviest tanks move faster than the Ogre setting's GEVs. Traveller has nuclear dampers so the Ogre setting's tac-nukes are useless. Traveller has direct energy weapons like PAWs and fusion guns and indirect energy weapons like meson guns all of which are mounted on armored vehicles which move rapidly.

In the original Ogre game, the All GEV defense is one which wins absent poor play and/or die rolls. With Trav tech, every armored vehicle is a GEV and nearly all pack a much deadlier punch. An Ogre's BCP armor isn't going to amount to squat when a meson gun's very nature means it BYPASSES armor to cause explosions within the Orge's internals.

And I haven't even touched on what ortillery could do to an Ogre.

An Ogre in Traveller is little more than a big, short lived, target.

I just really like traveller rules, and think that BOLO/Ogre's 'BIG FUCKING TANKS' are cool

What about Hammer's Slammers, on the note of cool tanks, and big weapons

>mfw MGT2 is my first exposure to Traveller
>mfw I actually like it
>mfw I see that nobody else does

it's not entirely that people don't like it, part of it is shitty business practices, and also MgT1E did it better, mechanically, and a lot of the other systems have better canon/lore/fluff

Though it's your game and you should do what you want, user

>I just really like traveller rules, and think that BOLO/Ogre's 'BIG FUCKING TANKS' are cool

I think they're cool too. I also realize that they have to FIT. You can only snap your players' belief suspenders so often.

You want big? Check out DGP's 101 Vehicles for MT in the Archive. It has a deep sea mining crawler which is BIG. I've used it and others like it before and in combat situations too. Sticking them several km deep in an ocean prevents them from being quickly shot up by grav tanks.

>What about Hammer's Slammers, on the note of cool tanks, and big weapons.

Ignore the MgT version. It's utter shit.

What the Slammer's unique is the power gun: an awesome energy weapon which not only needs needs physical ammo but also has surprising limitations. The MgT splat doesn't even attempt to model the power gun.

I've yet to see a minis game, hex & chit game, or RPG which does justice to the Slammer's setting. People have been trying for some time too. The Mayfair boardgame dates from 1984 forex.

>But that's not Traveller? Is it?

no, the technology in Space Opera is closer to the Bolo universe than standard unmodified Traveller.

there are also stats for a variety of ATV from primitive early track/wheel versions up to multiple examples of grav armar.

another factor to consider is that Space Opera has energy shields, blasters, and antimatter powerplants.

always thought it would be fun to explore the SO universe (and tech systems) using Traveller rules.

has anyone ever 'rebuilt' the mongoose Slammer's book to include both their official canon ftl and weapons tech?

which set of rules would work best to make spider tanks?

I want you to look up the term "ground pressure" and then think about "walkers", "spiders", and all the rest.

well... i always assumed they were really using anti-grav for lift - and the legs were mainly for style, psychological reasons, or opportunity attacks.

You're not alone user

The differences are too great for tweaks or rebuilds to work. You can't tweak jump drive to be Slammer FTL drive or fusion guns to be power guns.

Slammer FTL drive is all but instantaneous. It's the calculations which take time ranging from minutes to 10s or even 100s of hours. It's the ability to calculate a "jump" which imposes distance limits and "geographic" boundaries on the drive. A series of easily calculated "hops" will be faster than one hard to calculate "hop" and direct travel between certain points is incalculable meaning you need to make intermediate "hops" instead. Hops to some points can be easily calculated no matter where you are thus forming "hubs"; i.e. everyone hops through System A because it's easily reached from nearly everywhere.

Slammer's also has FTL comms. The equipment is expensive, bulky, and hi-tech limiting it to those worlds which can afford it. It also psionic in a way in that a person has to be in the loop. Despite those limitations, Slammer's still has FTL comms.

Then there are the power guns. Capable of putting an awesome amount of energy on a target at obscene distances, they also have little penetrative power. The leaves on a bush or a splash of water will stop one bolt - ONE bolt. While they'll stop it, the bush and water will be vaporized by that one bolt clearing the way for the next, which is one reason why many power guns are gatling types.

Power guns are almost infinite LOS weapons too. Traveling long distances through an atmosphere attenuates and scatters a bolt. If the bolt was powerful enough in the 1st place, it's range is measured in 10s of km if not longer. Slammer tanks routinely shoot down SATELLITES in many stories, which brings us to aiming. Slammer main guns and tri-barrels have AI assisted aiming which makes them all but perfect. Tribarrels in anti-artillery mode don't miss incoming shells, they have to be swamped instead. You have to give them too many targets to deal with.

So, you have anti-grav and you're still putting legs on something because it looks cool? Or because the legs can attack infantry that just happen to be within reach?

Those are EXCUSES, user, and not reasons. You're just looking for excuses to use your Happy Meal toys.

There are actual reasons why walkers would be and currently are used in very specific situations, "forest-friendly" logging forex, but there is no reason why they'd be used on the battlefield.

Both MT and TNE have rules for building walkers. MT in the Referee's Manual and TNE is FF&S. T4 may have rules in FF&S2e but that formula in that version are so broken it's best you don't try using it even with the errata at hand.

MgT2e's faults have been discussed here many times. They range from metagame issues, to Mongoose's business practices, to the nuts & bolts of the rules.

Look at the rules dealing with smart weapons for example. TL13 rocket launcher will get a +6DM versus a TL7 fighter jet and NO DM versus a TL13 moped.

You'll find other problems once you start using the rules instead of only reading them.

OK - mostly for rule of cool reasons... but enough people accept steampunk. and Godzilla movies.

is there a system that could handle the Hammer's technology better out-of-the-box?

then use Traveller for the character generation and other personal scale systems

>but enough people accept steampunk. and Godzilla movies

And jump drive, gravitics, psionics, etc. It's a question of where you want to draw the line.

Walkers aren't "Bad Wrong Fun". It's whether or not walkers plausibly "fit" in with the rest of the fictional tech you're using. Whether it' in a novel, movie, or RPG session, you can only snap a reader's, watcher's, or player's belief suspenders so often before they say "Wait a minute..."

>is there a system that could handle the Hammer's technology better out-of-the-box?

GURPS? Maybe?

Both versions of FF&S and T5 don't have anything remotely like the FTL drive in Slammers and I can't remember a sci-fi RPG which does.

I'm not current on GURPS4e and I don't know all the FTL options the many 3e splats presented but if any RPG has a chance of handling Slammer tech out-of-the-box it would have to be GURPS because of GURPS' huge numbers of splats covering huge numbers of topics.

It's sort of like Pacific Rim - we can set aside the suspenders, because they tried so hard to give us a belt (yes, the Jaeger's feet would be moving faster than mach one in the water. Yes, Del Toro told the CGI folks to model that in the movie)

Exactly. The jagers "fit" in that setting.

We don't see tanks, planes, and whatnot operating under one set of physical rules and limitations while the jagers operate are operating at the same under a completely different set of rules.

The jagers "fit" in the rest of the setting's tech because we really don't see any other part of the setting's tech. There's a never a case of wondering why the tank has legs and the bulldozer doesn't.

sounds good.

have to check out my older GURPS Space book. they changed the campaign building focus between 2e and 3e.

I hope you can find what you need in GURPS and that I haven't bum doped you. Good luck!

Is there a better character generator for MgT than the Mark Munson one?

jump-1

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