/btg/ BattleTech General

Taurian import unseen, Riflemen, Crusaders and other extremely common shit

I like Shimmy, and I like his work, and I like that he sometimes still comes around to talk with us

But man, that's an awful Awesome

Besides Shads and bugs? Old Star League-compatible stuff, and stuff that might drift their way from surrounding powers.

>Light:
UrbanMechs, plus the aforementioned bugs. Everything else is in tiny numbers, because basically everything else they get is coming from a long way (Lyran, Drac, and Davion space) away.
>Medium
Phoenix Hawk (from everywhere) and Whitworth (from CapCon). Next tier down is the Vulcan and Hunchback. The Shad is tremendously on top here, obviously.
>Heavy
Archers (from Star League, and only since they were so common there), and Marauder (because the MoC has had an association with MADs since back in Periphery 1e, even though they don't have a factory). Next tier down would be Taurian imports which are compatible with Star League stuff, so likely Riflemen and Thuds. But no heavies are really "common" at all as any other faction would define them.
>Assault
Stalkers, and only because they're the most common assault in the Periphery by far. The pre-Trinity MAF has complete shit for assaults, even for a Periphery power. Everything else on the MUL is going to be in 1s and 2s and half-dozens at most (Beemers), while we've worked out before that something like half of the ~48 assault Mechs in the MAF have to be Stalkers.

Basically, the MAF is a lot like the Jade Falcons. You know that saying about, "if you see a Falcon in something not a Hellbringer, Summoner, or Kit Fox, then worry"? That's basically true for the pre-Trinity MAF, except it's "bugs and Shads". Nothing besides those is "common" as any reasonable person would define the term.

>forgot pic

If you were to make a MAF refit of a standard mech, changing out certain weapons or adding one thing for another (ex. Davions and autocannons, Mariks and large lasers, etc) what would it be? What's their schtick?

Whitworths are Drac, not Cap. Vulcan is produced in small quantities in the FWL (literal 13 per year garage shop tier on the near periphery asteroid Spider factory). Wolverine would be more likely. Even the Griffin considering how old and common it is.

Oh, and Cicada from the FWL factories would be about as common as the Hunchback.

Stop trying to claim that the Canopians get all that shit. The MUL isn't canon.

They get nothing else. It's bugs and shadow hawks, with maybe one marauder and one other mech per battalion sized unit. The MAF has the worst military in the periphery, canonically. They're less good in a fight than even the outworlds.

>The MUL isn't canon.
it isn't but those mechs do fit as options for Canopians forces, if in small numbers

you need to stop strawmanning criticisms of the Magistracy

You know the funniest part of this to me?

>Canopians have canonically, a single company of assault mechs all wadded together into a single badass unit
>MUL gives them fifteen to choose from

>>Canopians have canonically, a single company of assault mechs all wadded together into a single badass unit
They do?

Yes. Old school 3025 single weight style. Shame that gets abandoned by the 3050's by all parties that used it.

What's the source for that? I just look through the MAF section of Periphery 1e and couldn't find a mention of it.

...

I can't find it browsing through in a quick look either but it's one of the companies in the Iron Hand. 90% sure it's in 1629 or TRO3025.

>What's their schtick?

They don't have one in the way we think of "ACs+Davion" or "LL+FWL". There isn't enough described variation in their military to define a schtick. Although there are some units which are described as almost entirely customized (FM:P, pg 43).

Except for being hugely underequipped and having a crap selection of units, obviously. It's not an exaggeration to say that probably ~50% of all Mechs in the MAF should be bugs or Shads.

Yeah, I messed up. In my defense, the Whitworth is listed as a Cappie Mech in the 1e Startbox Tactics&Painting Guide (and was corrected to a Davion/Kurita Mech in the 25th Anniversary Introbox). I internalized that for some reason; I don't know why.

In that case, I'd argue that the Vulcan is the most common non-Shad Medium, with the Cicada and Hunchie being the next tier down. Good catch.

I recall as well that there is an MAF formation which does have a 100% assault-weight company, but I don't recall which one. Skimming my copies of Periphery 1e, Periphery 1629, FM:P, and TRO3025 reveal nothing regarding thje subject. I don't think it's the Iron Hand; they're a parade formation for pretty much the entire period we're talking about and they're explicitly talked about deliberately refusing "good" units so that actual fighting formations get them. IIRC, it MAY be the 1st Canopian Cuirassiers - they've got a heavyweight unit in the Trinity era which is headed by a Pillager, and I seem to remember them being the heaviest MAF unit at one point.

Regardless, while there may be an MAF formation which is entirely assaults, they do not account for ALL of the assault Mechs in the faction. Last time this subject came up, we sourced the MAF to having somewhere between 5-10% assaults, which projects to between 50-100 (ish) assault Mechs. Thus, having 15 assault chassis to choose from isn't some sort of bizarre mistake.

Periphery 1E indicates one battalion per MoC regiment is mechs and the rest is armor and infantry. With 14 regiments of MoC federal forces, that's 14 battalions of mechs or 504 mechs total. 5-10 percent is 25-50 Assaults. I don't think that percentage number is canon though. I think last time, that was just a guy throwing a number out there for flavor.

Wait, counted that wrong. 8 regiments and two battalions federal. 10 battalions mechs. So on.

For assaults they must have had at least a Banshee or two at some point since they made a variant for it.

Depending on the era my favorite Drac mech:
Introtech - Charger CGR-1A9 with great honor be bestowed upon the Dragon DRG-1C
Bulldog+ - Sunder. IS omnis are, generally speaking, trash, but I love the Sunder as the perhaps the dumbest. The struggle to achieve the purest excellence is at the heart of every true samurai and the Sunder is an exemplar of that.

The Proserpina Hussars are hands down my favorite. They don't have the craziest name like the Genyosha or the coolest parade colors, but they've got the coolest hood to rep their set for. Proserpina is on the Davion border, has mining, manufacturing, and an major university. All this means it has and will be fought over. Not only is most of the world a swamp filled with the famous blood leaches, but residents have to wear masks on the surface because of 1st SW NBC shenanigans. God made Arrakis to test the faithful, but man made Proserpina dope as all get out.

If you'd paid attention, user, you'd know that the conversation was about which mechs were common in the MAF, not which mechs they simply had access to.

Unlike the MUL, Periphery 1988 is a pretty much wholly retconned and abandoned source. It's canon only in areas where it doesn't conflict with other canon, and the next Periphery sourcebook has Mech units in whole regiments without increasing the rate of production or importation of Mechs.

Since those things are mutually exclusive (you can't go from 1 Mech battalion to 3 mech battalions, and increase the number of units to boot, without increasing either production or importation), Periphery 1e must be in error on this point.

>Last time this subject came up, we sourced the MAF to having somewhere between 5-10% assaults, which projects to between 50-100 (ish) assault Mechs.

I think we settled on about 5%. So close to 50 assault mechs total. Their schitck is not being able to fight a battle against anyone stronger than a pirate band, and even then they only win about half the time.

There's something actually to the argument that the moc shouldn't have existed as a faction past about the second succession war.

AC/10s pop up here and there. See the Banshee, the AS7-RS Atlas, and I think something else.

On that note, Best 3025 Atlas, for sure. Two Large Lasers, LRM-15, and an AC/10? It's no BNC-3S but it's not damn bad.

I wonder what the ARC-2R Archer (Morgan) is. Don't see it in MML.

Are there any factions or units that use a dragon as a sigil besides the Draconians?

Honestly the main thing for the Canopians is they have always had a bit of a shit army, mainly because you buy your commissions and do not earn them. So scrub can come in and become a general basically with enough money.

Their only real huge advantage has been medical stuff, but that is mainly because of how much they push it. They try to have a shit ton of medics for their forces for instance.

What about the Taurians? What are the most common mechs outside bugs and Shads Pre-Jihad?
What would a tipical mercenary force recruited from there have acess too?

A few davion units do. Mainly the dragonslayers

Draconian isn't a faction word. It's Kuritans, Dracs or Snakes.

Anyone likes the old kintaro more than the new? Because god damn that was an ugly mech.

It shows up in several of the books, like Hearts of Chaos, Close Quarters, Mercenary's Star, Wolves on the Border, Black Dragon, Decision at Thunder Rift, and all three of the Warrior trilogy novels.

The new one looks like an MWO Apollo. It might be more attractive but it sure isn't old monkey face. So yeah, old one is better. Besides, you forget the cardinal rule of old BT. The uglier the machine, the luckier it is on the table.

Is it Morgan Kell's Archer? But come to think of it, I think he piloted a common-or-garden Archer with no custom kit, just painted in that spiffy blue and gold scheme.

I like "Kuritist" myself, t. Kuritist.

Factions, no. Units, yes.
There's a passel of mercenary commands that use dragon iconography like Dragon's Breath and Greensburg's Godzillas.
There's also units that like fighting the Dracs that include dead dragons in them like 4th Davion Guards and Dragonslayers.

If anyone mentions the Free Rasalhague Republic, I'll refer you to

>But come to think of it, I think he piloted a common-or-garden Archer with no custom kit, just painted in that spiffy blue and gold scheme.

That blue and gold is Wolf's Archer. That's Dragoons Alpha colors IIRC. Kell Hounds are red and black. But I'm looking at HTP: Mallory's World and I don't see anything different on the Morgan record sheet than a plain ARC-2R. Probably some inside joke they did about phantom mech.

>That blue and gold is Wolf's Archer

Bugger, so it was. But I looked at HTP Mallory's World and compared it with both the old RS 3025 and Megameklab, and it looks like it's stock. Hell, the BV is the same. Yorinaga's Warhammer looks like a stock -6K as well. Then again, nothing in the Kell Hounds book indicated Morgan drove anything else than a stock Archer.

That's what's fucked though. Names are never tagged onto a sheet unless it's an actual custom. And they carried it over into the MUL.

Just what was the point of Wolf's Archer? The Colonel drives mech that'd blend into a excellently equiped unit like the Dragoons, but paints it distinctively so everyone knows it's HIM. The guy semi-secretly leading a hyper-competitive, meritocratic band of furry tube babbies pilots a stock ride so he can be "one of the boys".

I assume he liked the loadout, it's very clanlike with LRMs and medium lasers, good for keeping your distance from any melee.

I thought he piloted the wolfs dragoons custom version with the srms in the arm

>paints it distinctively so everyone knows it's HIM

I'm guessing that's precisely the point. An enemy sees the blue and gold Archer, they know it's Big Boss himself, much like Natasha's black-and-red-belly-spot Warhammer. Furthermore, I think it was a -2W he drove, not the stock -2R.

Yeah he probably did use 2W as it seems all of Wolf Dragoon Archers where that variant. My mistake I thought he used the stock one. I know Morgan Kells was stock one.

Bugs and thuds, with a bunch of Griffins, assorted SLDF leftovers, Marauders, Warhammers and Archers filling things out.
Also they built Wolverines once, so probably more of those than the average, plus moderate quantities of cap and Feddie salvage

Not that shabby, the marauder is a good machine, how come the Taurians never bullied the canopians out of Detroit, fear of the Capis?

By the time Detroit was a going factory world the TDF had been bled white by writer-induced stupidity, plus the MAF had been gifted a half dozen mech regiments out of thin air and stationed two of them permanently on Detroit.

>how come the Taurians never bullied the canopians out of Detroit, fear of the Capis

The Canopians bullied the Taurians out of Detroit by throwing their weight behind Fronc independence and breaking the whole state in three.

Became Jeffrey Calderon was the load-bearing element of literally their entire national common sense supply, and after the cappies killed him, they were too busy doing the dumbest thing possible at every moment to take it back

Weren't the Taurians supposed to be the most educated periphery nation? How come they ever choose the worse and most illogical way? Who in the staff hates them?

If there's a joke here, it's going over my head. The next periphery book repeats Periphery 1988's section on the Magistracy almost word for word, with occasional additions like pic related (which happens to count the 1988 MAF at 1 'Mech battalion per federal regiment).

>How come they ever choose the worse and most illogical way?
Because the writers wanted it that way as part of other plotlines
>Who in the staff hates them?
Coleman, certainly. Maybe weisman a little
Also, note that there was literally ZERO writer overlap between periphery 2e and FM:P, which is probably a big part of the 180 degree characterization swerves

Old guard versus new guard in-universe. They got away with some amazing shit too despite being stupid as fuck, like the Vendetta affair and actually holding onto places like Brockway, Midale and the Pleades.

And besides, the Calderons are set up to be the new Taurians once the Shraplen Taurians collapse.

Most of what happened to the Taurians was OOC shit with writers clashing with rabid fanboys like Medron Pryde. The Concordat was essentially sacrificed because of his shitposting on the OF, constant arguing and citing Periphery 1E to second guess the writers.

At the same time the Magistracy gained patrons in the writing staff. Think a smaller version of Xin Sheng, the Confederation and St. Ives.

It's nonsense. Periphery 1E has never been rendered non canon or whatever, just four or five little sections of it.

Xin sheng idiot rays, same thing as happened to Best George

>tfw reminded what they did to Duke Hasek

Fuck

Has anyone tried to put the wandering/disappearing regiments of the Inner Sphere to good/fun use? I'd like to image Hanse had to send Wolf's and Hounds to relieve Takashi because the Dracs had QUIETLY fought a giant war in the Chaos March versus the FWL. Since the Dragoons, the Clans, and Venereal Space Disease are absent, there's no one around to notice the Snakes and Purple Burd fighting the Psychic War for the old colonies and a definitive answer to the timeless question of "Who wins in a fight of PPC spam vs. Large Laser spam."

Hasek and New Syrtis, now and forever!

>Implying the Dracs didn't send all those regiments to fight invaders and/or space aliens on their old deep space mining/penal colonies.
Why do you think they were really working so close with the Explorer Corps? You think the DRUM network is just to deliver space mail?

What as shame, its truly a dark age, even the OA has been raped be clanners and now are clanish mut like the vikings.

>So scrub can come in and become a general basically with enough money.

Not a canopus fanboi, but that's not true. You can buy commissions, but if you want one higher than IIRC company command you have to get approved by actual competent people. The magestrix and the head of the military for sure have to approve regimental commanders and higher.

Yeah, I've got one, Gunso.

Reminder this is an actual Drac outfit. I miss the old pop culture references so much.

>by actual competent people
Except for this you're correct. It's still a corrupt, nepotistic system that would promote personal/political loyalty over skill.

How different would the dark age map be looking if Xin Sheng and the associated peripheretardation never happened?

What unit? I had thought it strange that there weren't any Bugstompers among all the units and nicknames.

While it's improved a little, everything Wizkids inflicted on BT in general has been almost irredeemable shit.

Literally any user here, or CampaignAnon or NEA, could have written better fluff.

Georgie would be lord of the Double Capellan March. The man had more mechs in the CMM in 3067 than the Capellans had in their whole state in 3030.

>tfw Coleman had the Capellan Dragoons killed off because it annoyed him they had "Capellan" in their name

I forget the exact name but it should be in the original Gyroscopic Harness fluff.

I was talking about Ice Pirates Perlman though. He's the feather guy in the Legion of Vega in Heir to the Dragon.

>It's still a corrupt, nepotistic system that would promote personal/political loyalty over skill.

I guess there's not much difference between the Periphery and Inner Sphere after all, then.

It would be pretty damn different looking, and unless the dracs also got un-retarded, the FedSuns would be practically running the whole place

>Literally any user here, or CampaignAnon or NEA, could have written better fluff.

NEA wrote the best Battletech lewds I've ever read, and CA's fluff he's shared for the /btg/TRO has been uniformely solid.

I'm totally OK with letting them write the universe. How can we make that happen?

>laughing_NAIS.hpg

A lot better desu.
What factions and changes would you guys change? I Would cull the Clans without exterminating them, plus adding some stuff like the society winning for a change and expelling the clans warriors to periphery, with the clans than would have been totally destroyed pulling something akin to the Diamond Sharks/sea foxes style of live , with extra emfasis in raiding etc.
The Taurians don't separate, St.Ives, Sarna and Capellans march uniting (the last one if only to cull the davions, I don't know how to do it), the FWL is separated and basically lots of the independence movements (Skye etc) sucess in a big shit show, dunno if retconing totally the Jihad because there was lots of good between the shit.

The one with the Latin last name, who Teddy K set straight in the cookhouse? Fuck me sideways, is the escapee from Tropic Thunder in really HIM? Where is that from?

Be fair, mate. "a corrupt, nepotistic system that would promote personal/political loyalty over skill" can apply to the Elsies, the Dracs, the Capellans, at least a third of the FWL, and pretty much every unit controlled by the Sandovals.

That's not an unreasonable statement, and it's dumb to shit on the MOTrannies when the Mask is limiting who gets promoted by loyalty to the Chancellor, or the Elsies are promoting social generals (who also pay for rank, incidentally), or the Dracs are promoting the most SAMURAI! people instead of rewarding sane people like Minobu Tetsuhara.

Outside the typical "cull the populations" lot of stuff opposite to you. I would have made the Invading Clans the only clans. Homeworlders were a mistake.

Have Teddy man up and allow his dad to die in 3039 and thus kill the Black Dragons in their cradle and unretard the Dracs in one swoop.

Taurians go full Circinus and become a supertech Blake state. It's basically what they were leading to anyway. The Blakists just focused too much on the core worlds instead.

Never have Scorpion happen. Just have Waterly killed before she gives the order. Still have Aziz flee and split off the WoB.

Sunny dies on his jaunt through the periphery during Guerrero, killing the Trinity Alliance in the negotiating stage. Or whatshisface, the angry tall Russian who was in charge of MASK, takes over while he's gone for a year mucking about and he has to go live in exile on Crimson.

A lot more stuff, but the problem is things I would change sort of chain together. Not much point saying something about like the RotS when it would never become a thing with the other changes in play.

Ice Pirates. Which was also the inspiration for the Ryan Ice Cartel in the old books. Dumb 80's fun. Feels a lot like Time Bandits or The Last Starfighter.

What I see its than we have too much lore where a simple change would have changed everything, so even minor retcons would upset things. So why not move the goalpost to the 3250 like in map?
What factions live, what new factions could arise? What minor changes (like Dracs not being retarded) would you make?

What tank is that?

It could be a hetzer, but I'm not sure.

It is an unreasonable statement for obvious reasons. No one else has people buying rank or being promoted like an Arab army. Lyran social generals stand out in the Inner Sphere for a reason. The CCAF's reforms from Mad Max politically loyal officers to promotions for competence get shown for a reason.

Sheesh.

Gladius. It's a Marian tank, if that wasn't obvious.

Hetzers have wheels, and also look like actual real world Hetzers.

Ah, very nice. Looks good, an AC/10 on an 8/12 40 tonner is pretty appealing. Thanks, NEA.

I think it's a Salad Shooter
>hovertank
>nosemounted big gun
>cockpit set to the rear

Now than you say that (and a quick search in sarna) yeah, it's a gladius.

Say one of Focht's reforms was to expand on the Com Guard's rank structure since having 3/4 ranks is kinda small.

What would be some appropriately ComStar names for ranks to add?

Working in an AU and I think this will do, not sure if add Sarna to tikonov, leave it with the capellans or making it an independent state. Still working how to fragment the other powers, I think the Dracs have enough world, the Lyrans could lose a few without counting the DA shenaningans little factions and dunno how to break the sun even more.

Eh, I don't see the need for more ranks, but if you're really gonna do it, go for religious themed names with some obscurity, like Hazan.

The times it showed up in the era AFAIK it was stock -2R.

Most literate, not best educated. That aside, even if they were the best educated that doesn't prevent paranoia from taking hold or just doing the dumbest shit possible in retrospect.

It's funny to imagine, but I doubt it.

The Chaos March doesn't even exist until like five years after Luthien, leaving aside how those two would have to cross FedCom space to strike at each other AND were the only two parties of the Concord of Kapteyn that worked together.

It's just Stackpolean retardation to ensure that only the Suns and his pet characters can influence the outcome of major events.

They did that, made Demi-Precentor a full rank rather than a title for high-ranking Adepts and low-ranking Precentors.

4 ranks with the yearly gradations and option to add or remove years (canon-wise we only know they can add years for meritorious service, but really if they can add years I think we can infer they can strip them or withhold them as necessary too) you still get a clear structure.