Why are miniatures so expensive?

Well, they're quite detailed and precisely sculpted pieces of plastic.
But mostly because it's a niche product. Those are always more expensive because they have to somehow stay afloat with less customers and because there is little competition
That being said, yeah, they are more expensive than they could be

I'm in my late twenties buying toy soldiers, who cares. I still play with Lego, read comics, play video games, etc.

What's the point of being an adult if you can't enjoy life?

Aren't they just hunks of metal?

I'm going to be brutally honest -I fucking love the Adeptus Mechanicus, and I will purchase every single piece of Jewish plastic molded into exposed circuitry and irrationally extensive cybernetic augmentation.

Niche market, and supply/Demand. They're expensive, but people vote with their wallets and man do they vote for GW.

Likewise. Best faction by far, and we actually haven't had a bad lore or BL book yet so it's still all tasty. Rules are decent but not absurd even if the writers don't care about us cogboys and FW might have a book for us stomping bluies soonish.

Life is good for Mech players.

There are many factors:
First is a matter of demand, there just aren't enough people buying miniatures to justify a lower price.
Second is design costs, designers, artists and CAD monkeys aren't free.
Third, there's always all sorts of overhead associated with any business of any notable size.
Last but certainly not least, making the moulds needed for plastic injection molding is really expensive.

What's the context of this image? Did the Guardsman offend a machine spirit?

>

Same thing why legos are expensive as fuck despite being vile pieces of plastic.
Supply and demand, and also the brand that makes them.

GW have little justification for their prices, other than their consumers let them charge that much.

So blame your fellow spoonfed GW gamers.

This isn't a dig, but I feel the market would be so much better with a little bit more consumer awareness.

I'm a bit the other way, I actually thought after all these years of waiting, the kits AM have got are a bit underwhelming.

Techpris is a radical (although not quite a heretek) and he doesn't take kindly to your Dark Heresy =][= team prying into his affairs.

I'm a Mechanicus player for two reasons:
1. I enjoy working on cars in my spare time, which would probably qualify me as a Magus within the context of the 40k universe.
2. Robes are aesthetic, especially when they drape the cybernetic equivalent of an eldrich horror.

Try not playing 40K. Every other game that even GW makes is cheaper. Better yet play historicals.

Would be quite hard to top Blanche's art with actual minis, to be fair. Forge World did it better, but I do like the FW Sicarians, Dunecrawler and that whole line. Still probably would have preferred the more tribal, badass Skitarii from the Titanicus books over the current tin men no matter how aesthetic their helmets are.

Thread theme.
youtube.com/watch?v=wy-sVTaZRPk

One thing that put me off was the Skitarii, Cult Mechanicus and then even Knights being separate codexes. I know that's how GW likes to squeeze the pennies out now, but it put me off getting any kits when the list was so small at first.

alternative wargames thread?

See /awg/, nice little community.

That's apples and oranges and you know it. Actually its more like comparing apples to million-dollar highly advanced stealth aircraft.

Requesting that one set of seven PLASTIC figures for $84 (when their free shipping starts at $85).

If you look a the ACTUAL profit that GW makes it is clear that "just pieces of plastic" are expensive as fuck to make.

>Why are miniatures so expensive?
>Post GW minis

There is your problem there. You are not looking in the right place.

Right. I forgot injection molds grow on trees

True. Personally I pirate all my books and codices because I'm a pennypincher like that, so it didn't really bother me much, but I can see why I'd be irritating. They've solved that problem now at least, although the list is still a little sparse. Could use some more Fast Attack worth a damn.

I was interested in playing 40k 4 or 5 years ago but didn't due to time constraints, and it was pricey but it seemed affordable and I swear prices for a single squad have increased $20-$30 since then. I was in a hobby shop the other day and it was like $50 for 5 tau scouts or some shit.

I would argue that GW aren't the worst price wise. All fucking skirmish games and gamers seem to think it's ok to pay higher prices because of the low model count, which is a fucking rubbish argument if I ever heard one.

>All fucking skirmish games and gamers seem to think it's ok to pay higher prices because of the low model count, which is a fucking rubbish argument if I ever heard one.

Yeah, it's not like GW price gouges on HQ, centerpiece and character models that you only buy one or two of...

Oh wait.

I don't like Infinity being £5-12 a single but GW is the worst of both worlds.

Bullshit.

Compare GW's single units to any other games single units. GW charge $20-30 each.

The purpose of an individual is to be a productive, responsible member of society, not to enjoy life, you sack of shit.

Please elaborate on this "life" you speak of. My unabated productivity has stunted my knowledge of frivolous terminology.

>The purpose of an individual is to be a productive, responsible member of society
Said he while posting on Veeky Forums.

...

Now show us an up close picture of the cheap box to prove they are the same quality.

no?

Well, Warmachine Cygnar Tempest Gun Mages (6 models) - $34.99

Cygnar Storm Lances Cavalry Unit (5 models) - $84.99

Guildball - 1 team -
Alchemist's Guild: Lure of Gold (6 models/6 cards) - $75

Iron wind metals - 1 lance of hideously sculpted mechs (4 models) - $46.95

Dust minis were as expensive as GW, IIRC...

Just for you mate, nice and big.

You should probably educate yourself on who the Perry twins are before you say something daft in reply.

Well you haven't even listed single models like and chose units, but you're still wrong

>Warmachine Cygnar Tempest Gun Mages (6 models) - $34.99
How much are the new Plague Marines for 7? 50 dollars.

>Cygnar Storm Lances Cavalry Unit (5 models) - $84.99
Varanguard and Vanguard-Palladors are $100 for 3

Guildball that's like $12 each, not great but how much are the new Death Guard single sergeants, $25?

Call that detail? where are the copy paste skulls , purity seals and spikes on every surface?

Perry brothers man, the people who made some of the best GW sculpts of their era, and then decided that they didn't need to sell their product at GW prices. And its not just their medieval line. Another example is their Napoleonic line. £20 for 40 miniatures, all highly detailed and fairly unique between each mini.

No, I didn't list single models (I concede those), I was replying to the unit issue.

Plague Monks (20 models) - $35

Grave Guard (10 models) - $41.25

Black Knights (5 cavalry models) - $33

Blood Knights (also 5 cavalry models) - $99 - these always were stupid expensive

Savage Orc Boarboys (10 cavalry models) - $50

My point is that GW isn't the only one to blame

They look like shit... So exactly the same as free guild.

It comes from the cost of the molds themselves. Actually printing the miniatures is relatively cheap but the initial production of the mold requires specialty sculptors who like to charge high prices, thus to turn a profit, especially on new models, the price skyrockets. Chinese and reprints just create molds of existing models to produce low cost copies.

They are quite obviously less detailed than modern GW, but their paint jobs more than make up for it. They were obviously painted by someone who knows how to work the sculpts.

That being said, these look like they are still hand sculpted, which I will always appreciate.

legos are ridiculously over engineered to extreme amounts of precision

That is because they are hand sculpted. Perry brothers are oldschool.

Minis do not need to be priced as high as GW’s are. Some of their prices are fairly ridiculous, but they have the brand strength to support them. I’m astounded that their recent minis are doing well in Australia… there’s no way GW will lower their prices if that’s happening. (Though to be fair, GW’s realized that they need to offer SOME minis at lower prices to pull new players in, and with some converting you can base an army on those.)

On the other hand… consider all the years that GW wasn’t making money. Their costs were high enough that they needed those margins. They have a fairly large staff of designers, authors, sculptors, painters, etc. and I’m happy to pay them through the cost of minis. I’m not so interested in paying the costs of their brick-and-mortar stores, which really should do better for GW because they get to keep the difference between wholesale and retail prices.

Plastic mini prices should be heavily dependent on sales volume. The mold costs tens or hundreds of thousands, depending on how durable you want it to be, so the more you sell the cheaper they can be. Model airplanes and tanks sell much better (especially in Europe and Japan) so they’re very inexpensive. They also don’t need the same creative staff, “just” some historical researchers and people who know how to lay out sprues (still a lot of work, but not as much).

Resin minis use much cheaper molds but require much more labor, so there the cost is less volume-dependent. Same with metal except then you also have to deal with high material costs ever since tin prices started to go up 10-15 years ago.

Also, some of the more detailed pieces are very well sculpted, though again, they have a painter who really knows what he is doing.

See It's expected quantity moved like you suggest, but it's also the degree of precision needed based on size and the cost of the initial mold being produced. Value (V) had to be >= Number Sold (S) times Price (P) minus Mold Cost (C)

V = S * P - C

To be fair super-duper limited edition action figures are pretty much pre-painted plastic. But they are sold at retarded prices like 300-500 usds.

GW is really pushing the boundries of logical prices for the minis, especially with the latests releases and therefore recasts became more and more popular where you can buy almost the same quality stuff for half the price or maybe a bit lower most of the time. And to be fair if all GW figures were half the price they were today the sales lost to the recasts would almost disappear and i would call them very fairly priced.

>posting on the wrong kind of website once in a while makes you unproductive
>spending thousands of dollars and thousands of hours on playing with toy soldiers doesn't
40k manchildren logic.

You mean the "society" that is currently being ran by a reality TV host and recently rioted because of a meme. Your society is a joke, and you're a delusional manchild yourself for investing so much into it.

i think his point was that he is productive, more that (you) aren't otherwise you wouldn't be here

Because the molds and machines are fucking expensive to set up. Plus the time spent creating the sculpts for the molds.

hear that. I was playing back in 3rd. when the box set was 10 quality SM not that single pose shit we get now and a land speeder kit. 20 old school DE. I mean the ones you had to glue the spikey bits onto and they broke when you even tried looking at them. then toss in some plastic terrain kits and a full copy of the rule book.

cost? $65.

or IG, orks, and Nids didn't cost you your first born child to play. the land raider was the supreme money sink at a whomping $50. codexes we're $10~$15. and WHFB was the elite club you had to submit to financial ruin to join.

in reality not much has changed outside of tagging $20-$40 extra onto everything and somehow age of shitmar is still more expensive to play.

>Implying you can't be a productive, responsible member of society and also enjoy your adult life

Found the basement-dwelling permavirgin

Truth on the molds being crazy expensive. Doing some small scale molds for a product made of delrin no bigger than .8" by 1.2" each mold is $14,000 with adjustments in it to be made within tolerance putting it over $17,000.

Add in Shipping and Warehouse pricing to sell to and keep their profits high enough to justify stocking it and you have what we have here.

The Product I make costs me $0.19 per piece but with shipping and all the other costs they are sold for $1.80 and I only see $0.32. Yes I am making 59% to cover my overhead and employees (just barely) but with this you can easily see how the costs of a model is that high.

I like where nids are at right now
30 for the swarmy armies with include 12 units so it's buy 5 boxes for 6 units
30 for smaller specialized units like lictors and provides
And finally 60 for monsters or larger units of 3 like warriors, venomtropes. The cool thing is that every box except for the venomtropes, toxicrenes, and maleceptor boxes have options for hq choices.

>Poorfags think this is actually expensive

Maybe if you're a NEET or wage slave working retail.

What is inflation?

$65 in 1998 $97.91 now.

The know no dear starter set is $80 dollars and you get 14 Marine models, including an actual character, a heavy squad and a fast attack squad.

You also get 5 plague marines, a lord of contagion, similarly a flyer in the form of a blight drone and 10 poxwalkers as well as some simple terrain and gaming mat as well as basic rules.

Even better you can even play an actual small game with these models, whereas 20 dark eldar Vs 10 tac marines and a landspeeder is *pretty shit"

So what are you talking about ?

Because capitalism? The market bears the price.

Basically pretend that at $50 a kit you have 100 people willing to buy the models, but when you increase the price of those kits to $60 (for whatever reason, perhaps plastic or labour prices have increased or you wish to increase your profit) and now only 90 people are willing to buy them. You've driven away 10 people, but you're making more money.

Now the first extreme (absurd) case is you increase your price to $5,000 but still have a single whale buying your kits. This isn't desirable because you've exposed yourself to volatility (i.e. if your whale loses his job and now no one can afford your models).

In the second absurd case you decrease your kit price to $1 and have 5000 customers. There are pros and cons to having a low price: it's easier to attract customers, it's easier to make your product an impulse buy, you decrease your exposure to volatility but on the flip side you can decrease the perceived value/quality of your product (c.f. Beats headphones or Apple computers)

Also the new marine models have a lot more detail than the old ones. Something in their casting process improved because the seam lines lately have gotten much smaller and less noticeable.

what world do you live in? Warhammer is the absolute worst game as far as intro cost to play and expansion. to get into the game with bar bones 1hq and 2 troop sets you back about $100

Infinity starter box for one player is about $40~$50 set back for bare bones start. and kicker it's all in metal aka best mini material.

Warmahordes see Infinity minus the metal thing

FoW rifle company about $50

BTC $25~$50 depending on weight class

and those are just the more popular alternative games. thogh I concede BTC is more of in my local shops though it still seems to have a dedicated following, but it's a common theme being about $50 to start playing. also look at the game itself at that cost.

infinity fun as hell
Warmahordes fun as hell
FoW decent fun
BTC single lance is ok
WH40k meh. your enjoyment will depend on army chosen

as I have noticed from playing each of these games infinity is the best entertainment wise because the game is interesting at all scales and only gets better as it scales up. so not much need to invest more

warmahordes is as fun out of the starter box as it is at 50pt battles or multiple players so not much need to expand if you are cheap

FoW becomes good after a 2nd company is included and gets better the more it scales up

BTC is best at company level any higher it starts to become overly tedious and time consuming. but is the best of these so far to include extra players.

WH40k doesn't start being fun until about 1000 points which can come in at anywhere between $300 to $400

anyway you look at it Warhammer is at least twice the cost just to do anything or even have fun.

this is some cringy shit

the part where add a rule book to that $80. I will concede the new starter set is definitely more fun by comparison, but you are comparing a full starter box back then to half of one now for price. what's dark imperium cost? $160. just saying even then tossing $65 for intro box wasn't bad. Right now $160 is hard to justify as even if you go 50/50 with a friend which is the intention of a 2 player starter box each half still costs as much as a whole box of anything else and still costs about as much as a full box of their own product way back when including that inflation adjustment

you are correct the mold lines have gotten better, and just getting into hobby me would have been ecstatic about it. bitter vet of the hobby me almost prefers the more pronounced mold lines. easier to spot. on the other hands some of those tricky to reach spots can be ignored now. Just have to take the good with the bad

The base concept is the same. There is more to something than the material it is made out of.

Why not both?

Yea because everyone who plays warhammer is a perma virgin. I totally never see people married with kids playing warhammer.

>there are a lot of neckbeards tho

Stealth jet has pretty exotic and expensive materials manipulated in ways not previously conceived in all of mankind's history, taking hundreds of engineers etc. millions of man hours just coming up to how make one.

A plastic miniature is functionally no different from a plastic bucket. A concept artist has made some plans and CAD sculptor spent an afternoon to realize it, then it's all pretty factory standard tech with some modifications.

Awfully defensive there, mate. Warhams has more virgins by definition as it's babby's first wargame and introduction to the hobby for most.

...

Thanks for agreeing that the base concept is the same. I love it when I'm right.

Why are you comparing the prices of starter sets for all the games except 40k? Also, you saying that you can't have fun until you get at 1000 points is an opinion me and others don't share, and in our years we are perfectly able to field 3000+armies.

We're trying out a lot of different skirmish games and wargames proper, and GW games can hold up perfectly well.

>not that single pose shit we get now and a land speeder kit. 20 old school DE
>cost? $65.

Your full of shit, 3rd starter box was ~$100, they sold the rulebook alone for $40-$50. It was the Battle for Macragge that brought back the monopose marines, and mini rulebook IIRC. That sucker was $65, not fucking 3rd ed. starter.

Granted yes it did have regular Tac marines which was nice, the Land speeder was a shit model that didn't fit together though, and those DE, lol great 20 some ugly ass model of an army almost no one played.

Have you even looked at the current starter, only the pox walkers are duplicated, with some of the SM at worse having only a head turn, though most are pretty unique poses.

the fans are willing to pay the price so they have no incentive to lower the price

I'd also like to remind that user that by the time 3rd ed was just out we had a lot of single pose marines still around in shops. These and the metal body+plastic arms were still the norm.

>5th edition
>prestigue classes

lol

>A plastic miniature is functionally no different from a plastic bucket

In theory maybe, but there are many important differences.
The biggest is demand, there are way more people buying buckets which means you can sell them cheaper and still make good money, the market for plastic army men is vastly smaller.

> A concept artist has made some plans and CAD sculptor spent an afternoon to realize it
Is also no entirely honest, once does not simply materialize these things in an evening, design takes time and designers are expensive.

>then it's all pretty factory standard tech with some modifications
none of which is cheap, since you're making modifications and all of your molds from scratch.
With buckets there's plenty of infrastructure already in place but with plastic dudesmen you need to make new molds for absolutely every new design.

It's not really that expensive

This. Every man should thrive to become a glorious strong, intelligent and charismatic übermensch.

You don't need to enslave yourself to them.
You know, society does not imply in government

>Every man should thrive to become a glorious strong, intelligent and charismatic übermensch.
"Glorious" may be a tad romantic, but everyone possesses marketable skills of some kind.

Welcome to the ameican dream!

The kind of consumer that's playing the game and how they've changed is probably the biggest factor behind the change in prices.

Early editions of the game existed in a market space where tbs and rts games didn't look nearly as good as they do today nor were they as accessible because of the cost and minimum upfront knowledge of owning an early PC. This meant early Warhammer was by many measures the "cheap" option and large numbers of cheap miniatures where the order of day The consumer base expected this and treated them accordingly, seriously go back and look at what the average paint job look liked 20 years ago.

That kind of player that just wanted cheap minis they'd put the minimum effort into painting so they could PLAY has long since migrated to new better looking cheaper video strategy games. The people that are still here are the ones the love the game for what it is and what makes it unique, the hobby elements. You pay more now because most people are going to buy less and spend significantly more time putting together and painting it. This by no means makes them better people or gamers, its just a different kind of interest. I play video games when I'm looking for low input cost fun. I spend a month building, converting, and painting a single squad of Guardsmen because its an artistic outlet as much as a game. In the end my dollars spent per amount of time spent enjoying both things is not that different.

You get rules with know no fear. You can also download this editions core rules for free , legally, online because it's not the 90s anymore.

But let's say you're gagging for a hardback book for some reason.

It's $140 for know no fear and the rulebook Vs $97.91 for the 3rd edition starter set. For that extra money you're still getting more and better quality models out of the box than the 3rd edition set.

Or you can buy the Dark Imperium set for $160 and get in addition to the above 5 more marines , 2 more plague marineels, ten more poxwalkers , 2 lieutenants, a banner bearer, and a noxious blight bringer.

All these models are infinitely more interesting and varied and actually allow you to play roughly a 1000 point game between two players. Whereas the third edition set was impossible to play a game with without spending loads more on models.

Unless you live off your mum's allowance this hobby isn't expensive, and the current box sets are the best value they've ever been. Shit I could afford it when I was a kid.

Heck I bought that 3rd edition box set and honestly I just felt ripped off by it in the end as it was pretty poor value for money at the time.

As an adult with a job this isn't a hard to afford hobby. I can dump £150 a month on it and have more than enough to paint and that doesn't even dent my salary.

Consider this - For the price of a 1500pt AdMech force, you could make yourself a full, possibly great looking Tech Priest costume.

That's weird, the one I got way back when had a metal Space Marine Captain in it too.

...

There kits and their sculpts are amazing quality. I have some of the Sudanese. You have parts for two different eras in one kit, which leaves you heaps of left over bits. It's great. They are 28mm none heroic scale, I use them for lotr.

Why can't OP stop sucking dicks? Has he no self control?

That's flawed logic. The snobby eclectic games (infinity) have more virgins. Which fan base has more virgins, dwarf fortress or call of duty?