I can't get over how massively entitled players are. This has gone too far

I can't get over how massively entitled players are. This has gone too far.

I know, the reaction to the Mass Effect 3 ending was just absurd.

Tell us everything user,what happened?

Yep. Gone are the days when someone would make an elvish rogue or a dwarf fighter with a short little backstory and be ready for the campaign. Now they expect a full "session zero" and for their 1st level characters to have tragic backstories where they fought and killed people despite being at 0 XP, and that they start with "bonds" with all the other characters and have deep backstories with the rest of the party, rather than allowing those relationships to emerge during play, all because of theorycrafted shit in a few DMs manuals meant for certain types of games went mainstream, and was picked up by Wizards of the Coast so now every character has to have a background or bond with other party members, because the "meet in a tavern" meme has become so hated that if your characters even enter a tavern during the first session, your entire playing group is considered scum. Oh and the players also expect you to fit the retarded, badly-spelled lore dump about the paladin order they came up with, into your world, completely ignoring the lore document. And they also get salty if they roll a nat20 and don't get what they want. Or ask if they can roll a perception check, then get a 20 and get pissy when they don't see anything cause there was nothing to see. And they get pissy at the DM for making encounters with CR above their level. They get salty if you use a clever trap you found online. They get salty if there's a puzzle (not a fucking mensa crossword code cipher shit, I'm talking just an obstacle they need to think of something to get past). I listened to 45 minutes of my group badmouthing our DM when he wasn't around for setting up a cool barricade with walls of force and tipping floors that we actually had to think to get past, because everyone in the group is too much of a brainlet to figure it out. I also got shit when I DMed for having a fibonacci-related puzzle in a dungeon despite this being a ruin once inhabited by druid-philosophers.

I drove one hour here the least you can do is provide actual Doritos!

Neck yourself. I can't believe you wrote this spiel.

It's probably pasta

Why should I neck myself? Because I'm sick of players who don't want to actually play an RPG, but rather a softly-cushioned track where the DM holds their hand through everything and sucks their dicks? Protip: When you want someone to commit suicide for expressing a reasonable opinion, it is probably because you have issues yourself.

It's not. stop thinking every post longer than 2 sentences, is pasta. I would have written more, but I hit characters limit and had to go back through and delete some unnecessary words. Trust me, I have lots more to say on the matter.

What exactly is wrong with what he said? Everything there seems to be a pretty common complaint of player behavior.

Then you're kinda pathetic and pointlessly, pointlessly mad.

Your whole rant can be summed up as 'people have different playstyles to me and I am not okay with it'.

Your group not looking for the same experience you are? That's fine! The hobby is so big these days you should be able to find players who suit your playstyle, rather than getting mad about trying to force your preferences on people who'd rather do something else.

...

I run session 0 for my benefit, not the players. SO I know what they have made up and ready when planning encounters.

It isn't, he's posting similar-but-slightly-different rants in every thread like this.

I can't get over how many cocks OP sucks. This has gone too far.

Your supposed to mock him,
Not copy him!

I'm pretty sure you didn't read his rant, since it's not simply "people play differently", he's complaining about player entitlement and whining when things don't fit their comfort zone.

>Yep. Gone are the days when someone would make an elvish rogue or a dwarf fighter with a short little backstory and be ready for the campaign. Now they expect a full "session zero" and for their 1st level characters to have tragic backstories where they fought and killed people despite being at 0 XP, and that they start with "bonds" with all the other characters and have deep backstories with the rest of the party
These sound like great players who want to really get invested in the game. It's not often you find players willing to take that much initiative for creating character backstories and motivations. This is something to be encouraged.

>where they fought and killed people despite being at 0 XP
XP is a gameplay abstraction. Clearly these characters had some form of training to reach level one (as they have abilities beyond Commoner baseline). Maybe some of that prior experience involved killing someone. I don't see the problem here, as long as their claimed kill was something reasonable for a character of their skill level. (IE it's fine to say you killed a random thug who tried to mug you, less okay to say you slaughtered twenty guards at once).

>Session Zero
Is meant to avoid exactly the sorts of misunderstandings you're encountering. You seem to be looking for a simple hack-and-slash game, while they're looking for a fairly narrative-heavy, character-driven game. Session zero is to get everyone on the same page, or decide to play different games. Same with the difficulty on things like relative CR of opponents, nastiness of traps, etc. Some players enjoy a true challenge with a world that seems honestly dangerous, some players want to just mess around and have lighthearted fun with the characters they came up with. Neither is "wrong," just different preferences. Talk it out, and if you can't compromise, play in different games.

Which is all dependent on context. Most of that- Not all of it, but most of it- would be fine in a different game with a group who understood one another and had the same expectations.

There are few slight elements of 'yeah, that's shitty', but they're in the minority.

Those players want to play differently. Considering the entitlement he's showing and the whining he's doing, he's probably just projecting his own attitude on people who just don't wanna play in his shit games.

The crux of it is the guy is shooting himself in the foot by not communciating properly. The point of Session 0 is to have everyone in at the same time so everyone's accounted for and the lines of communication are working. Yes, they're also used to make characters and build narrative hooks. Sue me. If you don't want to call them session 0s, call them something else, but fucking talk to your players. Otherwise you're just an asshole hoping they'll read your mind and hold themselves hostage to your shit game

Agreed. It's a communication issue and OP is being an asshole about it.

Basically nailed it. RPG's are all about good communication.

>making you include their own lore instead of working with you on it
>pissy about over-CR fights
>allowing players to roll openly when there is no ambiguity regarding the result
>typical issues relating to d20 mechanics (i.e. "But I rolled a 20!!!")
>pissy over traps and puzzles
Sounds like you just have crappy players, subpar communication (and the resulting expectations mismatches) through the whole group, and want to generalize your experience to all of roleplaying.

>mfw playing only OD&D/Basic/AD&D and retroclone variants like DCC when running D&D-style games and none of this stuff is ever an issue because the playerbase is both older and have very different expectations out of a game.

>Session Zero
>Is meant to avoid exactly the sorts of misunderstandings you're encountering.
It's also called, fucking talking before the game. We don't need a whole session for that shit. Session Zero is a stupid fucking Redddit meme. Like calling homebrewing "hacking" a system. It's just a catchphrase to sound different, when in reality it's an excuse to waste an entire session on shit that should be done over email or texting.

>Considering the entitlement he's showing and the whining he's doing, he's probably just projecting his own attitude on people who just don't wanna play in his shit games.
Shut the fuck up faggot. I've gotten great reviews from just about everyone I've GMed for, to the point that they invited me to start more campaigns until I had to put four separate campaigns on hiatus so I didn't burn myself out. I run 2-3 games a week, regularly. If I was such a shit GM, that wouldn't be happening anymore.

Stop Redditspacing. No one wants to read your post when you take up half the screen with six sentences.

Session Zero won't change shit. Their opinions are literally wrong. And, nigger, I run very narrative-heavy games. I run very character-driven games. Stop thinking that just because I have lethal encounters and I don't hold the players' hands, that I don't fit into this Reddotard cookie-cutter that everyone needs to fit in these days to be considered a "good GM" because OMG you didn't let him explore his deep character development of buttfucking the guard captain because he rolled natural 20 on persuasion? I've met VERY few players who can roleplay worth a damn. I consider myself one of them. But honestly I'm out of practice on it because when the players won't roleplay for shit, it's hard to do it yourself until you just feel like an idiot for trying cause you're the only one doing it.

Fuck modern players. This shit didn't start until 2010. I don't know what the fuck happened.

So yeah, you're just an entitled cunt of a GM, good to know.

How am I entitled? I'm the one providing most of the content, lol

>RedditRedditRedditReddit
I have never been in Reddit in my life, but Session 0, or aprologue session or aprelude or whatever you want to call it is just common sense. Actually playing gives both the GM and the players a differentkind of understanding about the game and characters than just talking. A session 0 isn't always needed, or really necessary, but it is useful. It's a valid and sensible way of starting a campaign. Complaining about other people seeing its value is just retarded.

>Shut the fuck up faggot. I've gotten great reviews from just about everyone I've GMed for, to the point that they invited me to start more campaigns until I had to put four separate campaigns on hiatus so I didn't burn myself out. I run 2-3 games a week, regularly. If I was such a shit GM, that wouldn't be happening anymore.
>I've met VERY few players who can roleplay worth a damn.

So those players of yours who can't roleplay worth damn and therefore can't get into actually good groups stick with the guy who's actually willing to GM for them, whether he's good or not. Yeah, that makes sense.

Learn to use line breaks.

So what I can take away from this thread is someone is trying to make "Session Zero" the new
>bbeg
>ugh
despite the inherit value in actually going over the sort of game you want to run with your players, because he thinks the term is too reddit-like

It's called trolling.

i agree with you.
GMs are free distributor of entertainment for most players. learn this quick and take appropriate actions.

>not a fucking mensa crossword code cipher shit, I'm talking just an obstacle they need to think of something to get past
They sound weak. The only thing to ever drive my whole group to despair was a ridiculous series of puzzles in which we essentially went through 200 words per puzzle or so trying to find the answer. The GM failed to realize how many words you could make with the letters in the puzzles, so we were there for hours. Worse still the message the puzzles left itself open ended and you could rearrange it to have two opposite meanings without any indication which was correct. We did all that for absolutely fucking nothing in the way of guidance.

This. Most players are shit.