How do I make Orcs and Hobgoblins culturally and visually distinct from each other?

Hobgoblins are the Soviets
Orcs are Iran

Hobs will go out of their way to learn the common tongue, engage in parley with other races/nations, although their pride gets the best of them sometimes

Orcs identify humans as their enemy, and aim to distance themselves from their way of life. Their pride is far greater than Hobgoblins, compromise is equal to surrender, and surrender is punishable by death.

Hobgoblins are evil samurai, ala Imperial Japan in WW2

Italians.

DEAD!

Hobgoblins are intellegent, cunning and strategic and Lawful Evil typically.
They want to battle, conquer and rule.

Orcs are instinctive, primal and aggressive.
They want to fight, kill and pillage. Typically more chaotic.

They're both types of goblinoids, which in turn are just part of a greater mongrel family Of Goblins, Hobgoblins, Orcs, Half-Orcs, Ogres, and Half-Ogres. Some Trolls and Ettins too.

So posting how to make them culturally different is fine and dandy but how do I make them visually different? I considered making Orcs Porcs but then I don't know wether or not to classify them as Monsters or Beast People.

I also am considering making Orcs look like the Orcs from FF14 but I'm kinda hesitant to lift them visually in fear of being called a hack

Read the fucking book.

What book

Hobgoblins are more closely related to Tolkien's image of orcs, funnily enough. Militaristic, clever but not entirely sensible, industrial and expansionist. Lacking honor, individual expression, or empathy. If you were a German in the mid-1940's you'd probably see the Red Army in a similar light to what Hobgoblins are.

Orcs have a more more individualistic, warrior-like bent to them by comparison. They live, thrive, and fight in such a way as to assert supremacy , even to the orcs next to you. If you're fighting them, they are more likely to be seasoned band of raiders than an invasion force. That'd be a relief, if not for the fact that you'd confront them much more frequently, on almost a seasonal basis. That, and they're big bastards in comparison. The Roman Empire probably saw the assorted Barbarian groups of Europe this way.

Alamanni were a part of the HRE. South Western germany and swizerland today.

So no distinction at all.

As far as racial aesthetics go...
Hobgoblins are hairy, shades of brown, yellow to even red. Have sharper angular features and pointed noses and ears. physically more of an elvish frame.

Orcs are shades of green to gray, have more rough rounded features. More likely to have tusks, more muscular, more stocky builds. noses are upturned and more pigsnout-like.

YOU WILL NOT!

I FORDIT IT!
OOOAAAAAAA!

You got your history wrong. Persia had a massive influence on the arabs. Aside from converting a lot less the other way around.

Heres an idea

Orcs are like the orcs from TES
Hobgoblins are like the orcs from LOTR
One fights honorably and barbarically and only sorta deserves the racial prejudice, the other fights dishonorably, is less intelligent, and completely deserves the racial prejudice

They... aren't already?
Orcs are green savages.
Hobgoblins are red nazis.

I kinda prefer the slightly more limited definition of 'goblinoid', where it's goblins, hobgoblins, and bugbears. That way, you have your three races of 'greenskins' who are all related, but different.
Whether this makes orcs redundant, or gives you room to go in a very different direction, is fairly season-to-taste.

Hobgoblins are Lawful, they conquer and enslave as Maglubiyet commands.

Orcs are Chaotic, they kill anything too weak to defend itself as Gruumsh wills it.

I like this

Prussian Orcs

Orcs are socioeconomically depressed outsiders forced to the edges of society who steal and commit crimes as a means for survival. Orcs go to war with you because if they win, they get your food, tools, and money and don't starve as a race for the next decade. If they lose, the massive casualties means massively fewer mouths to feed, thus they don't starve as a race for another decade.
Orcs aren't that tall, but they are big. Imagine a Dawrf the height of an elf. They also have those pig aspects.
Orcs typically try to look as scary as possible, but usually have to do it with garbage. Occasionally, they instead wear something that makes the orcs themselves less scared of something else like angry wasteland spirits or that dragon they are rooming with for the time being, or more frequently Cholera or Hepatitis. These Orcs are generally considered pussies, but any Orc who went to live with them would put on the plastic food-service gloves in a heartbeat.

Hobgoblins are imperial nips. They barely have any shit, and think they can take over the world to get more shit. They are mean sonsofbitches in a fight, and are determined to resist you and press the assault to the last man, but that doesn't change the fact that they are basically swinging sharpened rocks at you. Larger groups of Hobgoblins are just those that got lucky with their first few conquests, and then got the backing to not be a laughingstock any more.
Hobbies are taller than a human, but ganglier.
Hobgoblins pay more attention to their appearance than Orcs. A Hobgoblin will only dress up in the scariest outfit possible if his purpose is to scare people. Hobgoblins are more than capable of laundering their last suit and tie, then outfitting a diplomat with it, if need be.

Easy. Have Orcs be huge and ripped tribals (both genders cause musclegirls tho) who are not!x-culture depending on where they set up shop; not!Scythians for Steppes and Plains, not!NativeAmericans for redwood forests, not!Vikings for the frozen north. Have the be an actual race with its own culture and can be of any alignment.

Hobgoblins are Uruks, make them the race that was spawned by evil and always ends up serving a Dark Lord of some kind being always Evil of some variety.

And for the greenskin trifecta have both of them kick Goblins around for funsies.

>there isn't any distinction between the various germanic tribes
user pls

This
Non-human-humanoids / blackbloods

>'Greenskins'/ Mongrel Humanoids

>>Orcs
>>>Half-Orcs
>>>pOrcs
>>>Orogs
>>>Savage / Black Orcs

>>Goblinoids
>>>Hobgoblins
>>>Goblins
>>>Bugbears
>>>Barghest,Nilbog,Vril,Blues,Varag,etc

>Giant-kin

>>Ogres
>>>Ettin
>>>Merrow
>>>Orgynn

>>Trolls
>>>Cave Trolls
>>>Stone Trolls

The fucking book for whatever fucking game you're playing.

I use hobogblins as a race similar to celtiberian orsimer.

And the orcs are monsters like pic related.

>Veteran Orc

>Medium monstrosity (orc), chaotic evil

>Armor Class 15 (natural armor)

>Hit Points 22 (4d8 + 6)

>Speed 30 ft.

>STR DEX CON INT WIS CHA
>16 (+3) 10 (0) 16 (+3) 2(-4) 14 (+2) 6(-2)

>Skills Intimidation +4

>Senses darkvision 60 ft., passive Perception 12

>Challenge 2

>Aggressive. As a bonus action, the orc can move up to its speed toward a hostile creature that it can see.
>Iron Hunger. The orc has advantage on Wisdom (Perception) checks that rely on hearing and smelling iron or steel objects. This includes the weapons and armour used by the adventurers.

>ACTIONS

>Bite. Melee Weapon Attack: +4 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 7 (1d6 + 3) piercing damage and if the target is wielding an iron weapon or using metallic armor, it takes a -1 non-cumulative penalty to damage rolls or -1 penalty to its AC respectively, chosen by the orc.

>Claws. Melee Weapon Attack: +4 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 7 (1d8 + 3) slashing damage and the target is grappled (escape dc 14). Until this grapple ends the target is also restrained and the orc cannot make claws attacks against other targets.

There are no humans, France is ruled by elves.

Just my personal take, but
>Orcs are creatures of raw physicality and rugged, primal individualism. They despise being told what to do, and while the strong may cow them they don't really coherently function a part of a hierarchy larger than a family group.
The only things they respect are sheer strength and might, which can earn a grudging loyalty. Nothing, however, can earn their obedience for longer than a moment

>Hobgoblins are rigid, militarized and regimented. They value only power and prestige, and will do anything to get it. They will obey those above them in the chain, but only as long as it takes for an opportunity to arise to supplant them. Until then, however, you have their utmost obedience.

I do boar-orcs, personally, with a lot of primitive civilizational flair. Maori tats, scarring, big headdresses and worn totems. That sort of thing.

My hobs look sort of like tolkien orcs or maybe uruks, but a rusty orange color. Look like lanky, wiry elves with sharp teeth and more pointed features, serrated ears, and thin sharp noses.

Orcs are Trump supporters
Hobgoblins are Clinton supporters

Have one group be thieves and rapists, and the other rapists and thieves.

>culturally and visually distinct

That... is really poor analogy.

lol

Shut the fuck up

The way I run these sorts of mook bad guys is as a funhouse mirror of the players' party

Oh, you guys are all about honor and glory and fighting for king and country? Here's hobgoblins, who are even more obsessed with honor and glory and loyalty to their leader (the Dark Lord) than you guys are, and they spit on your honor

You guys love fighting and being strong and free and not caring about the rules? Here's orcs who love all that more and think you're a bunch of over-civilized sissies, why are they bad but you're good exactly

You're just in it for the loot? Hey, so are these greed-obsessed goblins who think you're a bunch of suckers for trying to be heroes instead of just being a gang of bandits robbing people

It obligates them to explain how they're different from the creatures they're killing and it gives them an opportunity for characterization

/pol/, everyone

Pick HoMM3, play as Stronghold and you will know.

>Orcs are generally humanoid though larger than a man, have flat faces with pig like noses and one to two pairs of tusks
>Hobs are slightly shorter than a man and share many traits with their other goblinoid kin: digitigrade feet, wet noses, mobile ears and a full compliment of pointed teeth, though no tusks.
Basically orcs look more like people because they are while goblins are clearly not once you get a close look. There's also a bunch of biological quirks that are not readily apparent (gobbos have four nipples, scent glands, etc).

Orcs are mongols, Hobgoblins are are samurai.

But orcs are cool.

In D20 games I describe orcs as Uruk-Hai and Hobgoblins as Mordor orcs. I dunno, I felt that the tall, straight-legged Uruks deserved the +4 str, and the shorter, sallow, slant-eyed, bow legged uruks should be tougher and stealthier.

>Get rid of one.
Where orcs and goblins are concerned, the answer always tends to be genocide.

Not as far as most of them were in the HRE.

Who are the peasants, traders and artisans?

Hobgoblins are nazis, orcs are punks (as imagined by 70s housewives).

Poland or polish-lithuanian commonwealth

The HRE wasn't entirely German. The richest parts were the Netherlands, made up of the Dutch (who, while I guess they're a Germanic people, rather pointedly did not consider themselves German); and Moravia, which was ruled and populated by Czechs and Slovaks (who aren't remotely German).

Orcs are fierce pig-headed tribal folks, and Hobgoblins are fierce baboon-headed samurai tribal folks.

Hobgoblins are better disciplined than Orcs and won't actually fight other tribes whenever they meet, but Orcs totally will.

Orcs have more above-ground activity going on, while Hobgoblins tend more towards the underground. Both are more commonly in caves than villages.
Underground the Orcs habitate with ogres while the Hobgoblins have carnivorous apes. In villages the Orcs have very light defenses, while the Hobgoblins are fairly heavily fortified.

Hobgoblins have twice as many females as males, while Orcs have only half as many females as males. Neither are combatants. Hobgoblins have three kids per male, Orcs just one.

Also, of course, Hobgoblins are bigger and will bully Orcs.

It's kind of interesting to compare and contrast the two in AD&D, to be honest. They're superficially similar, but there's some weird little details. Hobgoblins are definitely mostly just Orcs that are better in every way, though.

Why would you have a tough time differentiating between the very obviously different Orcs and Hobs?

In D&D they are very different things with very different lore, and you would know this if you had cracked open any of the various editions Monster Manuals.

I'll use PFs lore to better help distinguish between them, despite PF actually making their visual differences less pronounced than other editions. One of the biggest differences between Orcs and Hobgoblins in PF is their attitude towards writing. Orcs are indifferent and are perfectly capable of writing down stuff for future generations of orcs. Whereas goblinoids of all stripes hate and fear writing, that it "steals the thoughts out of their heads".

This is a PF Orc. A green skinned, pointy eared, large tusked, very muscled barbarian. More specifically the Warlord of the Black Sun tribe and a military genius. So great in fact, he went from runt to Warlord to taking his entire tribe and making them mercenaries for the region around the Hold of Belkzen (a sort of Kazakhstan-like region named for the Orc chieftain who originally gathered the many tribes of scattered orc kind and settled them there), with eyes set towards making war with the lands of men with all the tribes under his command.

Orcs live in semi nomadic tribes wandering the territories of the Hold, scrabbling and warring amongst each other over territory and wealth. Every few centuries some great leader arises and gathers all the tribes to go to war with other lands, whether it's a lich or dragon or just a particularly charismatic and intelligent orc.

They do not fit well into civilization, mostly due to the gods they worship who demand destruction and blood and aren't all that concerned with how they get it.

We are in agreement then.

Orcs are tribal Hobgobbos are industrial
Orcs just like to beat the shit out of stuff, simple
Hobgobbos have a more pragmatic approach for beating the shit out of stuff

Orcs are larger, tribal, largely uneducated.
Hobs are smaller, militaristic, and train for war from an early age.

I base my hobgoblins on Reagan and Thatcher, while I base my orcs on Mongols.

Hobgoblins on the other hand are like this in PF. Minor tusks, pointy ears, but beyond that their look is very different. Entirely hairless, with skin of a gray color, and much more wiry and elf like in form. Bearing small claws instead of the fingernails of orcs or humans or such. Despite the many times artists get it wrong, hobgoblins are meant to look like a human like ape in general form, with long arms and short legs.

Organizationally hobgoblins are extremely orderly, basing their social structure on military order and hierarchy. There is a clear chain of command, with every individual having clear duties and obligations, though a jockeying for social status is ever present. When it comes to love and reproduction, they lack any form of monogamy or attachment to specific individuals, taking lovers among those of their rank as they please and sending any children they birth to those whose job is to raise new hobs. Some tribes even engage in specific breeding programs. Very much unlike Orcs who are much more humanlike in their relationships.

These military clans operate as both tribe and mercenary groups, often selling their services to allied or friendly monstrous races. The overarching goal for goblin kind is the subjugation and enslavement of all other races.

Technologically, Hobs are only slightly behind other cultures mostly because of the many slaves they take who they press into making various tech and to learn what they can from them. Lacking any written language, they must pass all knowledge of any tech they have by oral tradition, severely crippling any tribe that should certain individuals die without passing on that which they know. This also translates into a strong fear of arcane traditions or knowledge, and only a tolerance for divine magics. As with all goblin kind, anything that involves explosions, fire, and possible self mutilation through use is very common.

As to god's, tyranny through order ones are worshipped.

Hobgoblins are just Goblins that are a bit taller but mostly rely on instinct, Orcs on the other hand are an aggressive creatures, but still has a working brain.

>hobgoblins are meant to look like a human like ape in general form
Ironically the orc looks more like that

Hobgoblins wear metal armor, prefer swords, and lead armies of their coscripted racial inferiors.

Orcs prefer axes and leathers (with metal armor and superior arms gravitating towards leadership since they get first pick after a raid), and organize into bands of equals lead by the most charismatic or ruthless among them.

Hobgoblins will accept a surrender because it makes the looting easier. Orcs came down from the mountains for blood and view plunder as just reward for a job well done.

Gnolls are lazy shits who hit defenseless settlements for slaves because they can't be bothered to tend their own lands. Shame the don't give a shit about the slaves and work them to death, necessitating more raids. They'd rather run from anything that looks like a fair fight.

A basic analogy between them is that orcs are celts as seen by Caesar while hobs are Spartans as seen by the those who hate them.

Full body art for orcs in PF shows tham as basically human shaped. Hobs are basically supposed to have chimp proportions.

souce on these iron ape orcs?

i keep seeing them on Veeky Forums and want to know where they are from

I saw on the brazilian facebook group fo D&D.

atmarpg.blogspot.com.br/2017/09/orcs-sao-um-misterio-que-mata-pessoas.html

Someone's hoembrew. Has stats for three kind of orcs in the end. I already have regular orcs, but these work as monsters.

Well, in my own setting, Hobgoblins/Goblins ARE orcs. Or rather they're from the same race and are different cultures of it.

Actual Orcs though tend to be tribal, darker skinned, smaller eyes, their neanderthal-like skull comes with with horn-like ridges jutting out from the brow and through the skin. This makes it difficult for orcs to emote by the standards of other races.

Hobgoblins tend to be paler, smaller, and have larger eyes and bumps along the brows of males while females lack the brow bumps. Their heads, while similar shaped tend to be just noticeably 'flatter', Hobgoblins tend to live along coastal regions and are known as good sailors and swimmers.

Also as pirates.

Humans are Elves.

Orcs are proud and honorable

Hobgoblins are only in it so long as something is in it for them.

IE Orcs will never turn on a friend, but Hobgoblins have no concept of friend

I also like this

The only reason I like these threads is because it shows that nerds should never write fantasy

Mr Metzen I have to ask you to go.

>I considered making Orcs Porcs
never not porc

plebbit, everyone

>It obligates them to explain how they're different from the creatures they're killing
"They're dead, I'm not."

My orcs are fantasy Native Americans (diverse tribes, semi-nomadic, get dicked over by humans) and my hobgoblins are fantasy Spartans (fetishise military service, abuse a massive slave underclass, may or may not fuck little boys).

>t. nerd

>Peasants
Halflings
>Traders
Humans, possibly Dwarves
>Artisans
Gnomes, possibly Elves or Dwarves

> peasants
Anglos
> traders
Italians
> artisans
Germans

>Hobgoblins = Vaugely Persian Empire.
>Orcs = Green-Fat-Pigface-Nigger-Mongols.

Warhammer hulk orcs and D&D red cat hobgoblins

Lesser gobbos, sometimes humans

Hobgoblins, like all goblinoids, have a history of being creations of fickle archfey to fight in grand battles over the smallest slights. Those in the world have escaped the terrible grip of their masters but still do only what they know. They find service across the world.

I put it like this:
Orcs are apelike and hairy with fangs. Like pre- humans. Like Neanderthals but earlier and furrier.

Goblins, Hobgoblins and Bugbears are the same race that is not really in our family tree. They are if a cross between a wolf and a bear became sapient and walk on its hind legs. They are more pack focused and fixed on the hunt.

Honestly, it's a shame people never use the war between orcs and goblinoids for material. They HATE each other, and usually you'll only see goblins and orcs working together if they've both been enslaved by a third party (like drow).

In general, the united goblinoid hordes make a pretty interesting force. Goblins are the swarms of cannon fodder, easily bullied, but also the only subrace that regularly uses cavalry (worg riders). Hobgoblins are the leaders, disciplined main infantry, and the ones who speak whenever negotiations or threats are called for. Bugbears are the low-population elite units, taking orders from hobgoblins despite being physically stronger. They're also terrifying assassins, since people always forget they are VERY stealthy when they want to be.

If by "Got" you mean "Go back to Blizzard and kick Kosak to the curb" I agree with you user.

>Honestly, it's a shame people never use the war between orcs and goblinoids for material. They HATE each other, and usually you'll only see goblins and orcs working together if they've both been enslaved by a third party (like drow).
For some reason everyone remembers the AD&D PC race racism table but doesn't know about the humanoid racism table. Probably because it's hidden in the DMG rather than front-and-center in the PHB.

Pic related. And yes, the assumption is very much that an Evil PC will try to cajole a bunch of humanoids into becoming their dread horde.

In case anyone wonders, the reason everyone hates lizard men is because, well.
>Lizard men will serve a human master only because of fear or religious awe. Either case requires continual maintenance in order to keep the lizard men serving. Communications will probably be a problem. Lizard men troops will also tend to fall upon dead and wounded of either side and devour them if not strictly officered at /all/ times.

In Warhammer Hobgoblins are Mongols and Orcs are... well just normal Orcs I guess.

>literally everything on that list but goblins, kobolds, and trolls bullies orcs
no bully!

Maybe.

Hey, Ogres bully everyone notably smaller than themselves (except bugbears, bugbears are alright).
...On the other hand, while they tolerate (and bully) orcs, orcs also love the buggers. I guess that's just because you can sometimes find Ogres in Orc lairs?

The real perp is hill giants, who ONLY bully orcs. Everyone else at least bullies kobolds in addition to orcs, but not the hill giants.