/btg/ BattleTech General

No, wait! What if I combine Hanse's DNA with William Staner, Sean Connery AND Chuck Norris! IT'S PERFECT! Clans beware! It can't fail!

>And people are also too fucking lazy to do any of the complex unit stuff by hand.

>battle armor
Not often, because the niches are pretty well filled unless you go mixtech, and that's pretty lame.

>proto
Dead end tech is gonna dead end. Though I did get 3A to make an LPL Ultraheavy Proto

>Support Vee
Kill sats the way I want don't work, so waste of time.

Shit, there was supposed to be something under the first line. I still make customs by hand, but it's a pain to transcribe for the most part, and I don't like to dump 10 or 15 designs a day.

If you want to do Space Finland, look no further than the Rim Worlds and the later Timbuktu area of LC. Hell, the RWR is even listed as having Finnish as a secondary language in ER 2750.

Looking at the Timbuktu neighbourhood I can see at least three planets with Finnish names (Karkkila, Urjala and Viborg which is Swedish for Viipuri), a little further into the LC is Vihtijärvi (it's missing the umlaut on the map). Coreward of the LC, there's Koskenkorva, named after pic related, unfortunately right in the path of the JF invasion, if I read the map right. And if Nightwish isn't named for the band I will fucking eat my socks.

>with a fully Great House competitive selection of machines

If they don't have this then they shouldn't be on the map in the first place. They'd have been absorbed or destroyed.

Which, of course, if the problem. If they have meaningful amount of stuff, they're sues. If they don't have meaningful amouts of stuff, then they shouldn't exist, and existing therefore makes them sues.

Why build anything if they're just gonna be sues anyway?

>They'd have been absorbed or destroyed.
The periphery is the periphery because it's the lawless frontier on the edge of civilized space. You don't need dick to have a space country out there other than a maintenance contract for your space ships.

I'd actually like to see a Space Nordic that's actually detailed and interesting, though. You and are right in that there's little pockets of Space Nordics all over the damn place. But none of them are in any way detailed or worthwhile to play except for the Dracula faction, and that faction existed for such a short time there's no point. Just having a planet here or there that is named after a culture isn't really getting the point.

There was that thing with Space Poland where they had the basic maneuver unit of a single Mech, augmented with 3-5 combat vehicles, mimicking the organization of medival knights who operated as a singular unit supported by a couple of men-at-arms and a couple of bowmen. That was really neat and flavorful. I'd want to see something done like that for a Space Finland. NEA's thing about the anti-mech infantry sniper teams is pretty cool, and I'd want to see that more developed. But he's right that it'll automatically be Mary Sue to do it.

>Kill sats the way I want don't work, so waste of time.

How do you want them to work? Because there's the blakist way and the fusion mobile structure with a bunch of orbital guns strapped to it way.

The words "Sup Capital Naval Laser" or an NPPC for kicks.

>"I wanna make a new faction with more capability than the Capellans after the 4th War

In fairness, that describes any faction with the ability to make more than 2 Mech chassis and 3+ combat vehicle chassis. It's a pretty fucking low bar. Solaris VII by itself has more manufacturing capability than the post-4th War Cappies.

The way to do it is to use Space Station construction rules.

sarna.net/wiki/BattleSat

I know, but that's more effort than I like to spend. I want to have a laser with some solar panels so I can load it up with the BT equivalent of Kerbals.

Caps make 6 mech chassis.

Solaris also doesn't get their buttload of manufacturing until the mid-50's with the Norse Storm and VEST plants.

Can anyone explain the capital ship weapon damage ranges? That BattleSat is armed with a 5.5 damage Naval Laser, but I have no idea if 5.5 damge is a lot on Warship scales. Anyone available to explain the way Warship combat works?

That is a NL55 with a tiny bit of room though. So zero effort, other than digging the sheet out of the A2 book or megamek.

Capital damage is regular times ten. So it does 55 standard damage.

Most warships of SLDF vintage have very thin armor, while the later IS tech ones have much thicker armor. 5 Capital scale damage is pretty nasty against something like an Aegis, even if you'll need 11 satellites to do rip a flank open.

I was looking at a SCL mod just a moment ago, but I'm a little busy today.

Go home to Space Albania, Stratioti

>Capital damage is regular times ten. So it does 55 standard damage.
Holy shit. That's a fucking lot. One of those against a mech is game fucking over. Why hasn't anyone mounted one to a superheavy combat vehicle and smoked anything that came within range?

I was gonna say last thread, why's everybody go "let's make a faction" and not "let's make a war." Set the scope, invent the major and minor personalities, key actions, accidents and misfortunes, all that.

>taking the concept of Finnish snipers and up-scaling them to infantry squads (never platoons) explicitly tasked with hunting light Mechs with the 31st-century equivalent of the Lahti L-39 or a Carl Gustav (20mm or 84mm, take your pick). A small unit of ordinary guys out there with a multi-part tremendously-oversized gun hunting a Mech sounds *awesome*, but it's nigh-impossible to make in function within the BT ruleset
Yeah, an infantry SRM squad or towed AC/2 aren't going to have the same effect, even against bug 'Mechs. But armor penetration - with BAR ratings, variant armor types, and advanced critical hits rules - is a mess and it wouldn't hurt to rework it all.

I actually had a question regarding something like this based on an older idea I had.

How many Periphery-tier planets would it take to be able to support a group of mercenaries - A lanceworth? A company worth? A battalion worth?

Mobile structures can only mount up to subcapital weapons, not capital except for missiles. So the biggest laser is the Subcap3 for 30 damage and the Killer Whale for 40 damage.

one planet could realistically support multiple regiments, but the largest who'd actually be hanging around out there would probably be battalion-strength

But can superheavy combat vehicles mount capital weapons? You can have a 200 ton tank, that could probably manage to mount a 85 ton NL55, assuming the rules allow it. This needs to be a thing. It's like the Demolisher from hell: "surprise, assault mech, 55 damage to your CT hahaha"

Depends entirely on the infrastructure. Some old agricolony will keep them fed but won't keep them in working order. An old mining colony will be a shit place to live but will be rich enough to keep a decent force in good shape. An old proper developed world (SLDF deep space station or former RWR) is about the best out of all of them.

No. Anything smaller than mobile structures can only mount standard weaponry. Believe me, I've had the same thoughts and felt the disappointment when I read the rules for it.

Damn. I mean, I get it, since the NL55 can shoot like 80 hexes or something and would instantly melt anything it targeted, it'd be pretty overpowered, and that's not even getting into other, bigger, weapons. Damn shame.

No single planet should ever, ever, be able to out produce an entire great house, under any circumstances.

The problem isn't Solaris. The problem is with the CapCon production rates. They're bullshit low, and shouldn't be used as a measuring stick against anybody, ever.

Take consolation in the nuclear ammo for your standard Long Tom and Arrow IV artillery.

>capcon
>production rates

You're thinking of the House Marik book which had actual mech numbers for plants, absurdly low ones.

Also, the vast majority of Solaris is garage shops, which makes for a lot of different mechs but stupid low numbers. There were only two big plants there. They never outproduced the Capcon.

Seems like pretty accurate depiction of a communist "utopia" to me.

Yeah but that's not as fun as blasting a single pristine target to ash with one attack roll. Still fun, but not *as* fun, you know?

>. There were only two big plants there. They never outproduced the Capcon.

Pretty sure user is talking about variety in mech chassis. 6 for the Capellans vs iirc 9 chassis produced on Solaris.

Shit, don't Hesperus, New Avalon, and luthien all have 6+ production lines each? Individual worlds with a bigger variety in choice than a while, ostensibly, major faction is pretty bullshit, yes.

Er, Terra? That's the only one that I would have no issue with having that level of production.

>Yeah, an infantry SRM squad or towed AC/2 aren't going to have the same effect, even against bug 'Mechs. But armor penetration - with BAR ratings, variant armor types, and advanced critical hits rules - is a mess and it wouldn't hurt to rework it all.

IIRC, how I was handling it last time I revised the project (~8 months ago) was having them develop a dual drive combat vehicle that functioned as a sniper platform. Basically, it was a hovertank with retractable tank treads and an electric engine. Hover movement for strategic repositioning, and a very quiet drive to enable it to sneak into a firing position where hover movement was impossible. Weapon was basically a single front-mounted PPC or similar, and 1-2 LMGs for anti infantry work. Practically no armor, of course. Never got the game balance right.

Think a deployment and doctrine similar to US WW2 tank destroyers.

What are all the different positions on a warship bridge?

My group has been talking about trying something different for a BT RP and it involves being on an SLDF warship.

Capcon was a rump state, broken and with it's industrial heart torn out. Take a few key worlds and that happens. No Tikonov and no St. Ives makes for a sad Chancellor.

Just look at how the numbers fall for the Fedsuns when you take New Syrtis, Bennet, Robinson and their other DA losses off the table, and that's not nearly as bad as Mad Max lost.

Plus Solaris is guys funded by every state in the Inner Sphere, each with their own unique toys. It's a testbed for everyone. Seems people forget Solaris City isn't a bunch a Lyrans doing Lyran things.

Which is why nobody should be using the CapCon as a fucking yardstick to limit anyone else.

Bridge should have a little bit of everything. The TAO is effectively running the ship on the captain's behalf, and he's going to want to have everything at his fingertips. Communications, sensors, damage control - if you ever watched Battlestar Galactica - that big room with the fancy table that provides great lighting for Admiral Adama's resting bitch face is a decent representation.

Source: Navyfag

Emulate a modern warship, not star trek. Also, you're constitutionally required to have Marko Ramius appear.

It's a great yardstick for the Periphery because it shows about the lowest there is for a real IS state. Canopus is 3 chassis compared to them. OA is 3 before the Merlin. Taurians, called the closest thing to a real successor state are 8.

I know omnimechs usually dominate Clan frontline clusters but what are some battlemechs that are good enough to be included in frontline forces?

The IIC's that have prestige associated with them, like the Orion IIC or the Atlas IIC. All the Space Jew IIC's become frontline for everyone by the DA as well.

Which version of the hellhound is your favorite? Mine is how it looks in mw4

Couple of things I think could help smooth out making our own Periphery state:
>Primitive tech
Go the Randis route. Weapons are easy to get; they can be bought and strapped to whatever. Endosteel, Fusion Engines, and other such things are hard to manage. Give the state a stable of 2-3 'Mech designs using Primitive tech that have Introtech weapons so they can compete, but again, make 'Mechs elite units interspersed with combat Vees which make the bulk of the forces. Give them two canon chassis; something like the Locust as a scout and either a heavier Medium or a lighter Heavy as a backbone unit. Something that's not really very good, like the JagerMech. ACs are easy to make, so it fits.
>take NEA's suggestion and make them defensive in nature
Make them neutral. If they aren't players on the interstellar stage it makes them interesting because they have enough production to fend of pirates, be the target of pirates in the first place, and make the Houses want to deal with them in some capacity, whether for trade or raids, both overt and covert. Don't make them Taurian crazy though; instead go the 'get off my lawn' route and just make them hard to approach, but with zero drive to project force and no intense hatred for anyone except pirates or maybe other Periphery states (Marians?)
>Make them gain Star League tech very slowly, if at all, and make it the simplest to produce things, while they miss out on the more advanced stuff
LB-X autocannons would be easier to make (if they can secure any Endo Steel, which they will never be able to make themselves because they can't manage a zero-G factory) than Large Pulse Lasers. Even when things move to the Jihad and beyond, make them only able to produce certain things, and only in a very limited capacity, while maybe gaining new things like LACs before they ever even get the ability to make a standard PPC. Weird, severe, and enforced flaws will help define them further and make Sueing them out a lot less likely.

HAnsa are a good example of this to be honest, although to be fair they mess with people trade wise.

Sounds like a fun idea.
The periphery is pretty diverse, probably battalions tier as a maximum with mechs,probably regiments if you count vees and specially infantry, most planets would be lucky even having some Vees with enough firepower too.

Gosh, why on earth would you put massive boob enhancements on Grayson Carlyle? Or... on the second hand... hmm....

It's a neat looking machine and all, but pic related will always be a Conjuror to me. Wolverine II with some light rework counts as close enough to me too.

It's a good thing that they totally didn't add the Conjuror to Project Phoenix and totally fuck it up, right? Right guys?

I missed this earlier; here. I think this would be a fantastic idea that sort of lampoons things like Circinus that were founded by banished Mercs that basically became pirates.

Yeah the Hanseatic League is a good litmus test but even they are stronger than I envision this faction being, in many ways. It's a fine line to toe; making a faction strong enough to stand alone but weak enough that it doesn't make the main IS states or even the Taurians or MoC worry about them really at all. They're only a threat to pirates and microstates, and since they aren't aggressive, they really aren't unless you try to steal their lawn ornaments.

I love primitive tech, some threads ago we talked about that, and things like chemical lasers etc were talked about. Would love to see a few micro-estate of a few planets each sluging it out with combined arms, and with the mechs going to war in ICE and stuff like that.

Like in the sucession wars but in minor states and a more mad max feel.

I wouldn't be above or opposed to giving them FCEs so they do 'Mechs like the Scorpions do them, since SFEs are hard to make. Maybe they have two designs that use FCEs, and one that uses a PSFE? It give their Vees an interesting niche too because FCEs are insanely efficient in tanks so their conventional forces would be kinda scary, but again, not really threatening in a force-projection sort of way since Vees don't scream 'aggression', they tend to echo notions of well-armed militias and SDFs.

Hell, give them some bog-standard stuff like RL carriers. LRMs are expensive.

My personal AU's Periphery state has something like this, with ICEs/FCEs in a variety of Primitive mechs with stuff like RLs, chemical lasers, and autocannons, all low-tech high-impact stuff. The idea is that you can take them out if you want to, but they're gonna make you pay for every inch you take. When they're trading a Primitive Dervish with RL spam for your Star League Thug or whatever, you aren't gonna want to fight them much, it just isn't worth it. And so, they get left alone to squabble with their corner of the Periphery and generally do their own thing.

This is pretty good. I dunno if I'd want anything we all cooked up to be in-fighting too much, but the idea that it's kinda like a mini-FWL could be fun. A confederation of planets that all share a similar culture (maybe make them all different Slavic cultures? Czechs, Poles, Bosnians, etc) and have them all contribute something to the grander whole, but that doesn't stop them from whipping their dicks around once in a while because of planetary egos and all that. Since BT loves stereotypes so much, make the not!Czechs good at guns; they make the small arms, and maybe even the autocannons and stuff. not!Serbians make the RLs and some of the more 'garage-tech' stuff. Poles are the most industrially advanced in terms of electronics so they make the T&T systems, the FCEs, and other stuff like that. The lowest-tech world makes the armor, that sort of thing. They have to work together to make their combined military work, because their industry is very decentralized, but it causes their bonds to be strong even if they argue a lot in governmental capacities.

Has the IS ever won a faction warfare for MWO? Seems that unlike the actual game, the IS stands no chance due to the better tech overall.

I know this guy was joking about Space Albania, but having a Space Balkans with a military mercenary force known as the Stratioti would be great.

The space Czech thing is sort of a FWL thing already.

Thems words to start REEEEE fights, user. Be careful what you do.

From what I understand they really blurred the line techwise between the two to make it competitive, and the high customization gives the IS more room to bullshit.

Eh, I woldn't put only slavs (tough some of them would be fun), South americans or tribal Central asians would be fun as fuck too. Basically, the most fucked up places on earth outside of Africa. Imagine El presidente in his atlas ethnic cleansing Khazaks while those fly in they motor bikes and only think in revenge.

Can you even get into faction warfare in MWO?

I'll still queued for like 5 mins and get mad quick match in 10 seconds or less.

Do they get silly hats?

Honestly if you're going Stratitoi why not go full Serene Republic?

That's amusing since Venice was founded pretty much the same way most periphery nations were founded - by people fleeing war.

I could see a bunch of money grubbing Italians industrialist selling mechs, armor or weapons to the different kinds of warring planets.
Heck, perhaps even providing transportation to less advanced militaries to settle scores with late payers or somethig.

Clearly one non-shitty planet, multicultural with a semi-Ventian veneer to it, lording over a few other shit-tier Slav planets.

Ignoring the actual state's origins, the way I envisioned it is that the state was composed of about 12 systems, each of which added *something* to the military. No one was powerful enough to defend themselves with more than vees so for a real military force, they needed to work together. No one really was a huge fan of anyone else, but they were all big fans of not being absorbed by their local Great House.

The way it broke down was that one system managed the jumpships and dropships for the faction (had a facility to keep them operational with tons of spare parts but couldn't build more, couidn't make drive cores), one system made all the mech chassis for the faction but had no weapon production, and the rest provided various raw materials, engines, armor plating, myomer, or weapon systems. No one could make anything like Endo-Steel or Ferro-Fibrus. They had extremely limited fusion engine production (like two a year) and otherwise used internal combustion and fuel-cell. Every system capable of making weapons could make combat vees and the mech producing system also produced combat vees. The military was a joint-venture, with everyone contributing officers and soldiers. It was organized into small 2-4 mech units that were supported by a demi-company (two lances) of combat vehicles (which ones depended on the mechs they supported). Brigades (the combined mech and support units; didn't know a better name) operated independently of each other but supported each other as necessary in the field.

The state was not highly aggressive but feuded with their Periphery locals and their local Great House as appropriate. Their tech was pretty low, they had autocannons of various sizes (2s, 5s, and 10s, with the extremely rare 20), rocket launchers, and chemical lasers. The only "real" weapons they produced were the Blazer, which was their big gun (they did not use LLs as independent weapons), and artillery pieces (this is related to their history).

All sounds neat but the idea that I liked best was that the periphery nation sort of existed to make this one mercenary group, which went on tours to make the real cash for the place

I just went with a stack of similar cultures because that's how the game's boiled down. Just keeping the status quo. The idea of an 'El Presidente' type character in BT is amusing, but they are all kinda like that, really. I mean going full caricature with a chest full of medals and the fancy car and people living in despair would be alright, especially if you make them drug pushers who also tend to arm neighbors and incite rebellions.

I'm kind of on board with this. Though I'd argue that the FWL isn't really all that Czech. The Slavs were actually Cappies before Xin Sheng; not that anyone really knew that except the oldest of grogs since even in the 4th SW they were pretty Chinaboo in lieu of all else.

Eh, was just sharing how I did it, figured we were on Operation: AU Sharing. That merc army idea sounds neat too, but not my speed honestly.

You mean putting all the money grubbing cultures (minus the jews) in a planet, like Armenians or Chinese but dominated be italians? You are evil user.

You know what I want now? Some peripherat scum selling Industrial MOD's to planets that have degenerated to sub-Tech A for warfare. Bunch of losers with BAR5 or less armor and smaller rifles while some asshole with a PPC strapped to a Crosscut is going War of the Worlds on them. Too much trouble to try to conquer those places outright since they're militarized to an almost modern degree, but they pay a princely price for some Tech D, Flash Gordon shit.

Yeah sounds pretty close, barring minutiae, to what I'm hawking for.
Combine the two. Make it so they have a Merc company that is attached to their military academy, and graduates gain combat experience shipping out with the Mercs. Each cadet is paired with a veteran and they make up the two 'Mechs per lance the faction operates in, with a veteran and cadet vehicle team rounding it out for four units. They only ever hire themselves out for company-level or greater contracts, to ensure they are training as many rookies as possible. Obviously only the top of the class get this honor; all other grads are put on border patrol watching for pirate incursions.

Yeah - even if its a real bit player I figure they would have two sets of military units - the Stratitoi (in lieu of a better term) who go out to mercenary to get loot, and some sort of Home Guard (needs a better name) to blow up pirates.

Why not make a cluster of worlds instead of only a faction? For the moment we have space venice than provides the best tech (perhaps an advanced SL research facility than got big with refugees? Add the only useful, if corrupt, memory core so people have acess to some tipical tech from the SL, but the majority has to go with primitive tech) and the slav worlds , I would add a trio of Central americans style worlds in constant low intensity warfare because I find it fun.

I mean I am looking at the map now, sure we won a match here and there, but basically only best innersphere faction aka Fed suns have their capital free right now. The rest are butt fucked.

It does have a longer que time although this is probably mainly because people drop in groups, so harder to get in without a large group

Hey, Venice, Venezuela, same thing

Well, that's kind of what we seem to be going for. I suppose tossing a few disparate cultures into the factional blender isn't the worst idea. Could have a cluster of four Slav worlds, three South American worlds, one SEA world that's much higher tech than the others in terms of communications tech; maybe they mange an old HPG, and have some odd arrangement with ComStar that lets ComStar monitor them and control all external communications between them and the rest of the IS, but they have unrestricted HPG use internally? Maybe that's a bit Sue? I certainly don't want them to have any Star League tech, and I would like to limit them to certain weapons production; I'd push for all ballistics and missile weapons, and make them incapable of making laser weapons; they just can't do the precision lens machining necessary on a lens thick enough to not melt after a few uses. No PPCs. Vehicle Flamers only. Rocket Launchers. They like VGLs too.

In addition to the three El Presidente worlds and Spess Venice world, that is. That gives us nine worlds, which is a pretty good size, honestly. Way smaller than any big Periphery faction, but as large as most of the medium sized ones.

honestly what the periphery needs to be more interesting is widespread primitive tech in the SW era

Ok, so it's not I'm doing anything wrong?

I wanted to give some a shot I did a few and was fun. I barely play and when I do it's probably 10:30pm EST so might be part of it.

I assume El Presidente = space south america.

And technically yeah, Venezuala was named after Venice so... thematic?

But with all these slavs and latinos this nation is gonna be communist-y as fuck

I agree which is why I've been pushing for this new faction to use Primitive 'Mechs for almost all of their home-grown production. Give them two regular designs they can make (I suggested the Locust and JagerMech) and that's where 100% of their SFE production goes. They can do PSFE and FCEs and ICEs otherwise, and the former is used exclusively in their Primitive 'Mechs. I think other established factions should each have one or two Primitive designs as well; Taurians already do pretty much, so they're covered, but the OA and MoC could each use some too. Maybe just one for the OA, since it has the Merlin, and two for the MoC?

Naw your good. Just units sort of dominate faction play due to the need for better teamwork than quickplay, that and matches go on longer.

I'd say the MoC and OA could probably both use a couple extra SFE designs, and two-three primitive designs for each of them plus another 1-3 for each of the minor powers

Space Thais in charge of comunications? It could provide the majority of entertainment too.
Mixing old time Venice with venezuela amuss me. A Chavez style Doge makes me crack.
>Comstar smell like sulphur.

Well different kinds. You'd have some Eurosocialist Slavs, Banana Republic Cuba-style Latinos, and the Venetians and not!Singaporeans would be capitalist as fuck Republics. The spats between them on the political level would be funny, because the Eurosocialists would condemn the Lations for human rights issues all the time, and the captialists would do the same but use the cheap labor to better themselves, meanwhile El Presidente is actually a really good, nice guy, it's just his 'cabinet' are assholes who let him keep the love of the people while they wring them for everything. Someone trips? Well now they love El Presidente even more because they feed the fuckup to him and the public execution proves you can't escape the justice of the Presidente!

warosu.org/tg/thread/32163198#p32163415

Anyone know if this file is floating around still?

I think it makes more sense if there is some sort of political continuity - though culturally the planets might all be different. I like the idea of them all adhering generally to a cooperative method, but with really the main planet pulling the economical strings - similar to how in socialist areas normally the regional strongman pulls the strings.

So probably how this got started was each planet going hard on "rule by the people for the people! unlike that faggy inner sphere!" and made a loose coalition of allied planets that slowly got entwined in the power tendrils of the main one.

They probably call each planet a Commune too...

I like the idea of a shared political comunity, but also than they are all wildly different, like a FWL in miniature, where minor skirmishes between member states aren't unknow to add chaos to things. The idea of the soft power its very good too, Space venice and Space signapore are the main candidates for that, jocking for positions of power in the union, using they industry or propaganda for they goals.
Also what mechs (before we start making our own, that's it) would be common there? Banshees were kinda of mass produced for the SL and survived in great numbers, I could see star venice with a cache of those to show they have assault mechs, even if they are crappy ones.

Protomechs are dead because partially shitty initial art, only the clans use them, even then only a few clans.

I honestly like protomechs after the society got their hands on them and did a huge push, although they did have some weird protomechs even then. They are fun to use and design, just need more done with them desu.

That's not a banshee.

Here's some eye bleach.

I love protomechs too, shame they are Clan only (or worse, WoB) and have shitty desings, but FD I think did a rework of some than look cool as fuck.