/l5rg/ - Legend of the Five Rings (RpG) General

bumpo

sUe Me

Playing 4e and wanted to know what school would fit a Yasuki sailor/pirate more, a Yasuki Courtier, Hida Pragmatist or a Hiruma Bushi?

Lore wise, I know that any ships wanting to dock in Clear Water Village would need a Hiruma present and that Hida's Sunda Mizu Dojo is located there as well. There's also the pirate Yasuki Fumoki, who was a Hiruma Bushi.

With the Hiruma and Pragmatist build, I'll be picking up Crab Knife-fighter since it mentions that Yasuki prefer that fighting style. Sucks that the Yasuki Courtier can't pick it up.

I also might pick up Yasuki Enforcer for the Hida Pragmatist build.

>bumpo
Wouldn't need to bump if you weren't splitting the l5r general.

Depends on how "fighty" you want the character to be, and at what insight level you'll start at/think you'll get to.

I'd personally go for a Hiruma Bushi and take Crab Knife-Fighter, asking my GM if I could get Simple Attack Action with knifes instead of the normal "Only Samurai Weapon" one at Rank 4.

I'd advice grabbing Hida Pragmatist only if you wanna go punchy, punchy, as that's what they are made to do.

You could also ask your GM if you could take the Yoritomo Brawler, as it is heavily implied to exist outside of the Mantis Clan, especially among pirates. Though it works a bit odd, and I don't like it from a thematic standpoint as constantly falling down, and then trying to attack people, is stupid.

Thanks for the reply, great post!

Crab Knife-Fighter says thats they fight with a tango and a free hand, so would a Hida Pragmatist benefit from this? Would using his free hand still count as an unarmed attack?

If not, I think the Hiruma techniques translates for a better knife fighter. Is it fair to make that assumption?

>tango
Tanto*

Hiruma Bushi is definetly a better knife fighter. The thing about Hida Pragmatist is that they are all about punching things, all of their techniques, except Rank 5, are based on the assumption of unarmed combat.
You could attack with your "off-hand" with a knife in your main hand, but it'd be kinda pointless. Then you also have the fact that you need to invest points into both skills.
The dammage difference between knife-fighting and unarmed combat is also very small and they both play into the same cultural niche, being "unarmed" (as knifes aren't normally taken away from you) and both fit into fighting at sea where you don't have a lot of room, so I don't really see the point of trying to do both.

>dubs
Good points user,

Might just go with the Hiruma since even their rank 1 technique is good for a ship, making jade and food last longer.

The Yasuki Enforcer path sounded cool but I don't think its too important or a must have. Or am I wrong?

>burly brutish samurai with sick tango moves on the court floor

Hiruma Bushi can't take Yasuki Enforcer, and you are correct, it isn't that great. It's alright, especially if you wanna make a Yauski Courtier a bit better at fighting but it can't really compete with Hida Pragmatist rank 2 technique.

One thing you could do if you haven't thought about it is to make a bow character. There was a lot of archery in viking era and medieval navy combat. Not saying that it's better or worse, but it's another thing that could fit.

Or you can go with the Hida Pragmatist route and have your PC use an anchor as an improvised weapon. Too anime fantasy? Use an oar or fishing net and reap in the profit.

Never thought about using those kidna stuff as improvised weapons. Always thought that meant stuff like rocks, boards, pans and like, broken tea kettles.

>a bow character
>There was a lot of archery in viking era and medieval navy combat.
Very true since Viking ships were not designed for ramming. Samurai naval battled had platforms for archers but like many naval powers, they saw close quarter on deck fighting as the true battle.

Woko pirates used archers but at close range, since it was a deadlier range and easier to hit someone. Other weapons woke used were katana, naginata and yari. There are accounts of them using odachi swords (even dual wielding them!). Chinese sailors feared and recognized the Japanese superior swords.

The Pragmatist lets you start out with either a Heavy Weapon or Polearm. You can pick up a naginata which is labeled as a Samurai weapon. Only problem is, its usually associated with females. You can pick a bisento instead which is pretty much the same and make you pic related.

If you want a odic sword, you can replace it with a nagamaki. Its a large sword that falls under the polearm section but it doesn't have the Samurai label.

You could always go secret option D and go Yasuki Taskmaster pirate king. Why fight yourself when your crew can do it for you (or else)?

Once, some samurai tried to arrest, torture and behead my monk. He told them to kiho. I guess the eta is still scrubbing their remnants off from that certain street to this very day.

I like this!

Isn't the Yasuki Taskmaster path just for large scale Battles? Would the Yasuki enforcer make my courtier be able to hold his own in a skirmish?

bamp

So is the timeline retcon or reset?

Just wondering because i got tons of the source/splat books which are fucking awesome (probably best ones ive seen from any setting).

Is is only for Battle, yeah, and Yasuki Enforcer will not make a Yasuki Courtier able to hold his own.

We don't know the full extent of it but it seems to be mostly reset, with a couple of retcons.

It's a new timeline that bears similarities to the old one. By the way the beta is shaping up, it's a fundamentally different Rokugan.

Thats cool, i hope they keep the hantei bloodline intact as a staple of the setting.

Always felt kind of weird when it ended.

As an 1E fan, I don't find it too fundamentally different. It's still recognizably the tail end of the Thousand Years of Peace, the period 1E was set in, even if the immediate situation is changed (the Crane on the backswing, the Scorpion on the rise, the Perfect Land sect and so on)

Kiho are virtually spells, rituals that produce actual effects are performed by everyone, etc etc. It's a more magical Rokugan. The setting has changed at its foundations, even if what lies above is still mostly the same.

But on the other hand invocations are nowhere as reliable and understood as old shugenja spells, which were nailed down to a science in the old days (just look at the spell research rules). Shugenja really feel like priests this time instead of spell slingers.

>i hope they keep the hantei bloodline intact as a staple of the setting
Ditto. It was a major thing when it was the Hantei. Toturi I was a bit before my time, but the way they killed the remaining three of the Four Winds was amazingly shit.

Here's hoping they can avoid emperor killing. Or at least reinstate the Hantei after it happens the first time.

Which has nothing to do with everything other than shugenja being more magical, and doesn't make shugenja less magical.

Do members of a clan ever study in a different school? Would it be allowed (by either the clan or the school)? If it is allowed is it considered shameful or is that samurai blocked from advancement in either his clan or his school?

Secondary question. Can someone who isn't born into a clan join it in any way? Like can someone be raised up to clan status or can someone who's philosophy lines up more with another clan choose to join it? Would that person face perpetual stigma or is this a thing that just happens sometimes?

Lastly, just how much is a samurai expected to jerk off their own clan? Is it dishonorable/inglorious to acknowledge your clan's shortcomings or to admit that another clan does something better than their own? Or is every samurai just going to go believe that their clan has the best duelests, best shuginjas, greatest appreciation of the arts, the most honor, etc?

It does in fact make the setting less magical. In 1E peasants feared shugenja as maho practitioners, which was meant to be silly peasant superstition since shugenja magic was natural and sufficiently analyzed by the higher castes. Lesser effects (much lesser compared to what classic shugenja could pull off with little effort) are within the possibilities of a greater range of people, true, but things like Kuni Mokuna submitting a paper on the theoretical approaches of oni binding through the properties of crystal to his daimyo in order to be given a research grant aren't going to happen in nuL5R. The kami are much more unknowable and fickle this time around.

It does have everything to do with it, sorry.

Samurai study at different schools all the time. It's definitely allowed, and shame or being blocked form advancement in their own clan isn't a factor. Sometimes you trade kids with another clan as a show of good faith or whatever. Maybe your clan doesn't have a bushi/courtier/shugenja tradition and trades training for resources or favors.

You *can* join a clan if you're ronin, with the Crab having the most well known way of getting in, but adoptions or being elevated for doing something huge for a daimyo aren't unheard of. Kenburo wasn't born a samurai but eventually became an Akodo and was Emerald Champion for a while.

Clan members study in different clans' schools all the time. It usually requires trading in big favors and depending on the school (like a Lion or Crab studying as a Kakita iaijutsu practitioner) it does carry some prejudice from their clan mates, but theoretically it doesn't stop them from progressing within their own clan.

People that aren't born in a clan can join one. Mostly you're going to see this as samurai marrying into a clan, where they abandon their old ties (in theory) and fully take in the colors of their spouse's clan. Who leaves their original clan depends on the relative status of the spouses and the individual clan or family's traditions.

A samurai is expected to jerk off their clan a lot. It is polite to acknowledge the greatness of other clans in specific fields (the Crab may hate Crane snobbery and roll their eyes at Phoenix pacifism, but they're not gonna deny the Crane's prowess in art or the Phoenix's magical supremacy) but dude, you've sworn loyalty to the clan, of course you're going to rep them.

>Do members of a clan ever study in a different school? Would it be allowed (by either the clan or the school)?
Yes, usually as part of other agreements, or student exchanges.
> If it is allowed is it considered shameful or is that samurai blocked from advancement in either his clan or his school?
The vast majority of samurai only have one school. Being in an established school is never inherently shameful, but it usually precludes being in any other school. An Akodo attending the Kakita Dueling Academy is *only* attending the Kakita Dueling Academy. He is not also attending a Lion school without getting extensive permissions from his current sensei, his lord, and probably the lord who was on the other end of whatever agreement got him into the Kakita school in the first place.

>Can someone who isn't born into a clan join it in any way? Like can someone be raised up to clan status or can someone who's philosophy lines up more with another clan choose to join it? Would that person face perpetual stigma or is this a thing that just happens sometimes?
Marriage is the most common. Ronin can be accepted into a clan, but the only reliable way is the Crab's 20 goblin winter. The rest of the time, they'd have to perform a truly great act on behalf of the clan and even then it's not guaranteed. It's also possible that very highly performing ashigaru could earn their way up in the same manner, but again, very rare. In any case, there's no real stigma.

>Lastly, just how much is a samurai expected to jerk off their own clan? Is it dishonorable/inglorious to acknowledge your clan's shortcomings or to admit that another clan does something better than their own?
You don't have to really believe it, but in front of other clans at formal events, your clan is the best at everything (or at least tied for best) or the category is stupid anyway. Your school is also the best at its specialties, your ancestors were the best, and your lord is the best at being a lord.

To clarify I meant the school they were in, like if a Lion joined a Kakita dueling school and excelled would they be at all kept from advancing. Like could that lion some day teach or be used as an example of the greatness of the school?

Otherwise thank you (and others) for the very comprehensive answers!

>Like could that lion some day teach or be used as an example of the greatness of the school?
Unlikely. They miiiiiight be able to teach the non-secret parts of iaijutsu and dueling (Which is to say, skills and not Techniques) back at the Lion, but they aren't a member of the Crane clan, and so wouldn't be a sensei there.

To expand upon what the others have said: Generally, studying at a different school is much more common and allowed by minor clans. For example, the Dragonfly only has a Shugenja technique, and it's common of their non-shugenja samurai to be trained either in Phoenix or Dragon schools, due to the nature of their origin.

Generally though, if your clan can do something with a school, you'd better have a reason for not being in one of their schools. And even then, the arrangement is rarely, if ever, made by the individual, and so the clan would often need a good reason/negotiation process for letting people from other clans into their school.

For example, in exchange for some supplies, the Crab Clan may make a deal where X members of the Crane Clan are allowed to train as Kaiu engineers, or the Yasuki may blackmail a Crane gentry into accepting a small number of Yasuki into their town's Kakita bushi dojo.

If you're a Crane, don't expect any deals which allow people into the Mirumoto bushi school to be made anytime soon - for general bushi they have Iron Warriors, and for duelists they have the Kakita Bushi.

>Crane, don't expect any deals which allow people into the Mirumoto bushi

But later in the story that exactly happened. Mirumoto Uso and Kakita Kaiten became very good friends while developing the 1000 Years of Steel kata and actually arranged for students from each clan to train at the other's school. Sadly it was a plot tibit that was made and promptly forgotten by AEG, but it did happen.

Huh, I didn't realize that actually happened - that's unexpected.

Nah mate. You're going off on a tangent that has nothing to do with the conversation. Sorry.

>shugenja magic was natural and sufficiently analyzed by the higher castes
The kami were reliable, but they weren't machines. Even simple spells required an entire scroll of ritual, beseeching, and notes to cast correctly, and the shugenja would need access to the scroll to cast unless they dedicated time and effort to memorisation.

>Lesser effects (much lesser compared to what classic shugenja could pull off with little effort) are within the possibilities of a greater range of people
New5R rank 1 kiho can produce effects cosmetic and/or mechanical similar to Old5R spells of higher rank.

>Kuni Mokuna submitting a paper on the theoretical approaches of oni binding through the properties of crystal to his daimyo in order to be given a research grant
Doesn't make shugenja less magical. It does make them less prone to bureaucracy if they're being treated more as priests for the kami, in general. The Agasha are still notably the combined mundane/mystical research shugenja family, which puts everyone else into being more mystical than practical - as they should be when Rokugan is more magical than before.

>Ronin can be accepted into a clan, but the only reliable way is the Crab's 20 goblin winter.
The most reliable way was to guard a village, have children, and maintain order. It's not great for PCs, though.

Okaeri! But sorry. The kami were reliable enough to make magic research a science. Shugenja were wizards that knew exactly what to say, think and chant to get the magical effects they wanted. Hell, Isawa arrogance came entirely due to their exacting command over the kami. Magic was such a known quantity modules assumed news of noble caste happenings like marriages and deaths would spread out quickly among samurai simply because shugenja existed and would keep in touch with each other using magic. And you focus on kiho while letting out stuff like the old Kakita artisans. Remember that? Being so good at painting you could open portals across the land, or so good at folding paper you could create living creatures?

What you really don't want to admit that you saw prayers by non-shugenja as having a mechanical effect and read Final Fantasy into it.

Yes, I focused on kiho because it's simple and the conversation is already there. I could jump to how Utaku can cause their steeds to return from death to possess other horses, or a myriad of other more magical examples. I won't, though, because frankly the more you reply, the less convinced I am you're worth talking to.

> Final Fantasy
The last FF game I played was X. Into the bin you go.

meanwhile, in the Veeky Forums l5r discord: discord.gg/qWt2YVp

Definitely not a core sensei but guest lecturers are a thing.

What would happen if a Unicorn (Male) Bushi and Scorpion (Female) Courtier were exposed as lovers?

What would be some reasons they found interest in each other?

How would either/other clans react?

[Spoiler]Is it too out of flavor/lore or is it just unusual?[/spoiler]

I'm spent on ideas.

Having a lover isn't a big deal but getting caught is. Aside from Glory loss the Scorpion Clan is probably going to be embarrassed that one of their highly trained blackmail artists got Got, but there aren't legal repercussions. I don't think the Unicorn give a shit, to a point where they're notoriously open about wanting sum fuk.

>What would happen if a Unicorn (Male) Bushi and Scorpion (Female) Courtier were exposed as lovers?
What's the situation of the courtier?

dont like the new system, fortunatly, 4th ed is complete so i can keep using that.

in my extended group we never have monk-monk, only samurai-monk like henshin, ise zumi or witch hunters.

I can see the Scorpion could re-engineering that exposure to "But ah-ha we were just arranging a new treaty between our clans and we were go to seal that treaty with a marriage. When introduced these fine young people just totally hit it off and young honorable love bloomed. They just got a little over-eager with starting their marital duties," And then the Scorpion force a deal where they come out ahead.

and after 5 rank of your punchy crab school of choice, id say do an active ''retirement'' at the monk school of extra punchy for even more punchiness. you can still follow the group because that is clearly your way to enlightment (and make for a great character devellopement arc)

dont worry, the scorpion already figured out how to get out of this embarassement........if they didnt actually caused it for their plans.

most likely you are an unwitting pawn in a scorpion plan

>When introduced these fine young people just totally hit it off and young honorable love bloomed.
Doesn't make sense in the context of ritualised Rokugani betrothal, tho. It's common that they don't even meet before the wedding, let alone have time alone to fug.

But it is equally common that they at least meet. And horny teenagers being horny teenagers you know some sneaking out for some sexy time happens. Turning a dishonorable situation into merely an embarrassing one is something that is part and parcel of a courtier's duty.

Literally anything, I'm looking for ideas for a side tangent to the main quest.

I'm considering it as being conspiracy, kind of like how said the Scorpion could be using it as a means of a treaty, but there's something more (or perhaps less) to it.

>But it is equally common that they at least meet.
Aye, but that's one time, from a distance, under the supervision of nakodo and family. You need big brass ones to tupp your betrothed right there, and it's not so much "they were exposed" as "they exposed themselves infront of everyone".

I think certain families on both sides would be like "Gross." but for the most part the Unicorn side would be for it.

More tools, more children = Bigger, Better armies.

If they're both unaligned to the existing families it'd depend on their heritage I guess.