Rather than guarding his stronghold with highly trained soldiers or nightmarish monsters...

>Rather than guarding his stronghold with highly trained soldiers or nightmarish monsters, the BBEG keeps adventurers out with complex philosphical puzzles.

Pull lever, pray for the sweet release of death.

Gordian knot solution: Kill the puzzle asking BBEG

Not a particularly effective defence, barbarians and the like will just burn or smash the fortress.

Also I think non-obvious defences (barring illusions and the like) are much better in fiction than in games - you either have to rely on players to get it (which is liable to make quite a flimsy defence) or you have "roll int". It is possible for higher int to equal more tips and clues, but that's still far from ideal

As for the puzzle:
Leave the leaver - even in the absolute "best" case scenario (where you have to trust the other guy to not put self-preservation first) 4 people still die.

This.

anyone has the complex version of this where several other philosophical problems are included?

The only problem you need.

>any answer other than multi-track drifting

Free market would had solved this kind of situations. The 4 guys on the rails are spooks.

Yes.
Now, I would like to see anyone trying to sue me once the media will know that I tresspassed to save 5 people, for only public opinion matters. Checkmate, problem.

>A "private property" sign is enough to keep pesky adventurers out of the BBEG's stronghold

>Courts
>Public opinion
>Mattering in the anarcho-capitalist society

>As you strike down the evil overlord, you notice he was merely a shadow on the wall

We had a 1920s All-Lawyer Call Of Cthulhu one-shot that ended in acknowledging Dagon was legally speaking entitled to the evil artifact, so we handed it over.

If both guys don't pull the levers 6 people would be saved.

>BBEG

Ugh.

>Ugh.
faggot

In the U.S, the railroad company trumps your private property.

>BBEG keeps kidnapping people to force various and horrible trolley problems
>It is up to the party to find him and stop him

That’s why you have a DMPC to give them hints if they’re still banging their head on the wall after 40 minutes.

>faggot
ugh hoe homophobic

I DON'T UNDERSTAND MISTER SNIDLEY VON EVIL

YOUR FIENDISH SCHEMES BAFFLE ME

Naturally you don't pull it. i'm not risking my life to save random person #54646546.

Ugh, homophobic much? It's 2017, sweetie...

Fuck off, false-flagging /pol/shit.

faggots are transphobic because they want to have sex with men instead of transgender girls.

Always one box
Trust the predictor, it's never been wrong, the odds are obviously in your favor
Twoboxers are spineless idiots

...

The worst thing is, is that this is actually better than the original version of the problem, which is explaining the moral quandary of the bystander. Do they leave the system alone, and maybe five people will die due to their inaction, or do they switch, and definitely kill one person? How do you explain your decision to the man in the box? What if the predictor lies?
related

TDT still produces the best outcome, it's just this new scenario is crueler by design

Usually if the problem is too confusing I just don't bother and let it run. If it kills somebody, it kills somebody

But should you be held morally responsible for not making an attempt to figure out the problem to save the most people?

So long as I'm not held physically responsible I don't give af

>save the most people

Isn't the goal to get the highest score?

Is your goal to maximize the number of dead?

twoboxing will kill six

Twoboxing kills one. Box is empty if you switch. Not if you don't.

I put quarters on the tracks in front of the trolleys and cause both to derail, killing no one.

>save the most people?
If you pull the lever you didn't save 5 people you killed one, inaction is the best choice for you personally

spoken like a true noob

look at the lever, it's already pointing up. switching it puts trolley on bottom track.

Don't do anything because participating in it is murder no matter what you choose.

You're just upset you didn't think of option 3 sooner.

>it is murder no matter what you choose

Does a paladin fall if he pulls the lever? Putting a "good" paladin in this scenario would cause more deaths than a neutral who pulls the lever. The paladin should fall for not acting.

He does because he voluntarily kills innocent people.

>implying the paladin would not smite the trolley off the tracks and save everyone
Pathetic.

Spend 1 mythic point: punch trolley into stratosphere as swift action
Charge other trolley and full attack with pummeling charge

0 casualties

By not pulling the lever he actively chooses to kill 5 people so this is just another baby orc situation.

No, he doesn't. The lever was already set in position to kill 5 people. It's not a paladin's fault. However, switching the lever means that he kills innocent person because he thinks that he has a right to do so.

Inaction when you could minimise casualties is easily as bad as taking action and leaving 1 dead.

>What if the predictor lies?
Then the problem statement itself is lying.

>Pull level
>Cast allocation and exchange myself with the victim
>Cast heros defiance and survive

This contradicts the problem description and furthermore there is no reason to assume the lever is pointing in the direction of the track chosen.
You have to flip it to divert the cart to track 2.

> because he thinks that he has a right to do so.

Which is funny because literally anyone else who isn't afraid of falling will be able to act and save more lives than the paladin. Some hero.

The answer to this one is: the predictor is an asshole and should be held responsible.
If you are the only one to know the predictor exists this is a question about face: you can safe five people but it looks like you killed one, or you can just do nothing, which if the existence of the predictor is unknown to anyone else, is the logical choice as the tracks reunite.

However, the fact that the predictor always predicts correctly makes the choice pretty obsolete as it is no decision at all. the fact that the contents of the opaque box are already in place also take away all the freedom you may think you have.
you will do what you do and things will happen.

"Minimizing casualties" might work at wartime, but not in situations like this.

>the fact that the predictor always predicts correctly makes the choice pretty obsolete as it is no decision at all.

Actually perfect prediction is not essential to the problem. Even if the Predictor is merely right a majority of the time the decision problem remains intact.

Yes, I would invade the property, because the Justice of God is higher than the laws of mortals

And that's only if I can't Smite the train. And even then, I'd still try to Smite the train

I live my entire life acting how how I'd behave if I intended to two-box, and in my heart I keep the one-box truth quiet and waiting for this moment. Then, I attempt to derail the trolley and dedicate my life to stopping this sick fuck predictor in the name of any who die, taking solace in the fact that they will never have to deal with this trolley problem. I probably kill 5 or 6 people by doing all this, but it's for the best that they don't face this trolley problem.

If the predictor is not infallible it becomes a lot harder to justify your choice. You switch the track to save five people. If there's a chance that the box is empty even if you don't switch, or worse, that it's filled even if you do, makes the whole thing questionable. But I guess it does show more clearly that it's really all out of your hands and the Predictor is the one who's at fault here.

>I live my entire life acting how how I'd behave if I intended to two-box
Just what a one-boxer would do.

But user, the right of private property is given by God.

Paladin response here. The correct answer is to have become strong enough to halt the Trolley without anyone dying.

The picture is bad because this trolley version gets the boxes around the opposite way. You onebox to get the cool million because you have to behave assuming your actions are what the predictor is using to make the prediction (a perfect copy of you tested to predict the actions of the real you)

That always nets you the million. But that's one boxing.

In this trolley version, you wanna smash the lone guy up top for minimum causalities and the same strategy applies, but in this case it's #2 for no good reason.

I pull the switch twice.

>minimum causalities
Are you a qualified military commander, tasked with fulfilling cruicial task? Is person you are going to kill under you command and understands that you may sacrifice him in order to achieve you goals?

As the Lord giveth, so he taketh away, that which blessings the the unworthy abuse. If the owner would not allow me access to perform God's holy will, clearly he is unworthy of the blessings he has, and his writ forsake

When it comes to paladins if it's a no-win situation it's can't cause him to fall. He tried his best.

The lives are going to be saved whether or not he understands or accepts it. His death ensures the predictor does not place five more victims in the path of the trolley.

...

...

...

Oh i like this one

The logical choice is to kill the five. If even a single person doesn't divert the trolley your actions resulted in more people dying than if you did nothing. Even if everyone diverts the trolley you saved a net one life and you and three other people are culpable as murderers.

If I do nothing, then we will kill at least 5 people. If I do nothing and he pulls, then we will kill 8 people.
If I pull and he pulls, then we will kill 4 people.
If I pull and he doesn't pull, then we will kill 8 people.

The best solution discounting the threat to me is to pull the lever, because it results in the minimal amount of possible people killed. However, I can't trust the other person to reason through this (or not reach this step of the reasoning if he does reason through it), and there is a direct threat to my life if I pull the lever. I am justified in not pulling to preserve my life.

Afterwards, assuming we both survive, I join blue in hunting down the trolley system designer and his rope tying accomplice.

Change it up so that the 4 people on the tracks are people who regularly post libertarian strawman images on Veeky Forums. Then I might be tempted to drive the trolley myself over those morons.

Even in the strictest interpretation of libertarianism, you should pull the lever. Worst case scenario you get sued for any damage to the property (which will usually be minimal), and you can raise as a defense the trolly villain's culpability for causing the scenario and pass your liability onto him.

What if you don't know how many people are further down the line? Is it okay to pull the lever and pass the problem off to someone else?

In that case, you don't even know if there are other dudes and trolley problems set up. The best course of action is to behave as if there is only you, and not worry about what other people will do.

It doesn't change anything for you. From your perspective its just a regular trolley problem.

...

It remains the same problem as With a clear view you don't know if the guys further down the line will lever or not, the same way if your view is occluded you don't know if there's more bodies on the track just out of sight. Better to kill those five guys now than take the infinite possible casualties further down the track.

>BBEG

ugh.

You don't know in a normal trolley problem if there are people down the track past the horizon. Putting a blind on it makes it a normal trolley problem.

You don't know the minds of the other dudes either.

>Veeky Forums - trolley general

Also, examine the logical application of your solution to the real world.

Any individual you come across you should kill. Because you just don't know that they won't go on to have 5 children that they will torture for their entire life before those 5 children go on to do the same. Better to kill him now than take the infinite possible casualties further down their life.

Exactly. Best solution, wall or no wall, is to pull the lever, do the least harm, thee best you can, and pass whatever problem remains to future agents.

Ugh, /pol/-phobic much? It's 2017 sweetie... now conform before I call antiCom and punch a commie.

All of these have very simple solutions:

1) Pick the track with the most arabs/africans

2) If all are white/asian, then minimize casualties

I've heard lots of shit about /pol/ invading threads on this board, but this is the first time it's undeniably what's happening

...

Did the people whose choices were correctly predicted knew that the Predictor was (previously) infallible ?

I honestly think there's just a large crossover of users. I see threads about gamergate and stuff on /pol/ regularly (sure, that's /v/ technically, but I've seen such things here), there's all the 'god-emperor'-stuff, and well, I'm both on /pol/ and here.

I pull the switch as the trolley passes the junction, thus causing it to derail.

This, I imagine very few Veeky Forums users actually browse a single board only and the boards are not isolated islands - some of the "culture" spreads and mixes

...

Are the people tied to the track Union members, and is there time to tie the union rep to the track?

I STAND ON THE TRACK AND PULL THE LEVER

NEVER CROSS A PICKET LINE

The sad thing is, this situation has probably happened to people.