/swg/ - Ace Squadron Edition

Did you miss the whole scene where Vader alters the deal, or

He was trying to protect Cloud City and hoping Vader wouldn't buttfuck the place if he got what he wanted. Then guilt and the fact that Vader refused to hold up his end of things made him change his mind.

So if that's why Lando changed his mind then why did Vader change HIS mind? Even later Han changes HIS mind too about whether he's Lando's buddy. Why's everyone changing their minds all the time?

Vader never changed his mind, he just lied to Lando because he was holding all the cards

You understand how lying works, right?

Vader lied to Lando to get him to cooperate early on. When Vader was getting what he wanted, it got to his head--he is corrupted by the Dark Side, after all--and he altered the deal to make sure Lando got nothing and the Empire benefited entirely from the Bespin mining situation.

Lando cooperated because he knew it was either fight and his people may die, or cooperate and he may get a good deal for them. When Vader altered the deal and revealed that he was going to fuck Lando and his people from the get-go, Lando's sense of guilt and honor came to the surface: he helped his friends escape, told his people Imperials were on the way so they could evacuate, and then he joined the Rebellion because fuck it mang you might as well go whole-hog; at this point he must have Death Marks all over the Galaxy.

I know in the last thread you had mentioned some possible solutions to the TIE fighter being outclassed by the TIE/fo in this format.

For the idea of having it allow 4 TIE fighters at 15, that's just a full crackswarm.

The idea of allowing 2 15-point TIE fighters to replace one of your two aces seems pretty good, but would it outclass other builds?

The possibility of letting you clone a unique pilot and have them be generic also seems OK, but wouldn't that turn into triple-predator-scourge or 3 Dark Curse with a shield? On the other hand, is that even good?

I'd look towards the second or third solutions, honestly.

And I'm assuming that you are telling the rebel TIE fighter to go fuck itself in this format, and honestly, I'm OK with that.

The E-wing also seriously would need a fix, but giving the PS3 an EPT solves nothing since it already costs 29. Is the generic E-wing just entirely nonviable already?

And Vaksai seems overpowered- you could run 2 Black Sun aces with Chips, PRS, Vector Thrusters, Homing, Glitter/dampeners, and VI/Crack for 29-30, and i'm not sure if that's beatable with this format- would Vaksai need to be toned down?

He didn't buttfuck the place though?

He just left an Imperial garrison there, which given that Bespin is an Imperial planet in an Imperial galaxy during a galactic civil war he has every right to do.

I am afraid that Luke won't do shit in TLJ. If he doesn't get a cool action scene I will be super miffed.

Bespin was effectively neutral under Lando's stewardship.

This isn't DBZ

So heres a question I've had for a while. Are the various parts of the TIE Model fighters interchangeable? Like if you wanted a TIE Interceptor in combat, could you take 2 spare Interceptor Wings and put them on the cockpit of a TIE Fighter? With the exception of a few models they look like they had that in mind when they designed them and the technology in them should be all the same, but I want to know if there's any material that actually states that.

I know those aren't Ssi-ruuk, but that picture makes me wish we got more Ssi-ruuk in modern Star Wars.

They literally were only in one book. Other books mention them, but they only actually appeared in Truce at Bakura.

Personally, their whole entechment thing was really weird and out of place.

Checked.

They're a weird evil Outer Rim species. That makes the bizarre shit ok to me.

They were Unknown Regions species, IIRC. Which yeah, especially in the early EU was pretty much license for "yeah whatever" but that doesn't mean that it wasn't incredibly bizarre.

Is this a scam?

ebay.com/itm/272886917401?

It's a post of a massive X-wing collection for under $30, but it says "Check my rating and feedback and bid with confidence." on an account with no history from china- is it worth it on the off chance that this isn't a scam?

Now if you REALLY want to go nuts, there's a death cult of spider monsters living between hyperspace and realspace.

Ah, early RPG stuff. I love that they're keeping a lot of the world-building established in Legends, but that particular bit (and honestly a good portion of RPG material) can stay exactly where it is.

In otherspace

>nustarwars: shitty movies and shitty books
>oldstarwars: amazing originals, ok prequels, and slightly fewer shitty books

It's like Star Wars fans are fucked in both holes no matter which way you turn and it sucks that even back then people missed the point entirely as bad as they do now.

Rogue 1 was better than any of the prequels.

...

The first half of Rogue One is pretty bad though.

The second halves of TPM, AOTC, ROTS were pretty bad.

So were the first halves.

If Jyn & Cassian had any kind of personalities, charisma or chemistry together, Rogue One could've been great. And I don't mean "Just make them Kyle & Jan" because that's lazy pandering

The CGI robot upstaged the both of them in everything including a meaningful death.

I liked Rogue One, but I'd put it on par with ROTS.

Prequels at least paved the way for interesting stuff to come later. If Rogue One and any of the prequels were on side by side I'd watch Rogue One over the others but I wouldn't seek out either and I doubt Rogue One will lead to anything I'll enjoy as much down the line as I did Clone Wars.

That's because Rogue 1 literally made the effort to wipe out its cast and show itself as a direct prequel to ANH. You can't fault a movie for that.

Agreed

Armada cost of entry: ~$200 buckaroos
Armada cost of upkeep: ~$80/year

How's that compare to X-Wing? I know Armada is way pricier to buy into, but I get the impression X-Wing is actually the more expensive game in the long run

I've said it before and I'll say it again.

The prequels weren't great but at least they told their own story, and aside from making Vader a shitter they left the originals alone.

Rogue One is worse than the prequels while simultaneously directly fucking with original trilogy lore. It's something bad that also tries to make something great just as bad as itself.

X-wing is more expensive if and only if you want to go complete-collection for all factions, as there are 3 factions and there are a fuckton more expansions.

Are you considering getting into X-wing?

How does it fuck with the OT lore? Leia was clearly lying to Vader when he confronts her, and he knows for a fact that the ship isn't just a diplomatic vessel considering it was literally just fleeing from and firing on a Star Destroyer.

X-wing entry is about 100-150 bucks, then 15-100 a year based on how many factions you're into and how many ships you deem are actually worth picking up.

It ruins any intrigue by making the supposed secret mission into a big dumb battle.

It introduces Marvel quips into the universe via jokey Vader and comic relief robot.

It makes the Empire look like a bunch of dumbfucks.

Its main villain is a great actor playing a terrible and annoying character.

Its main hero is a so-so actor playing a piece of driftwood.

The ending scene is okay, but the whole movie's tone, events, and pacing clash with the movie it tries to set itself up as a direct prequel to.

It has a Force monk that goes away from the original trilogy-style Force mechanics that Force Awakens made some effort to reintroduce and instead goes back into and above the prequels with superpowers and superhero quips.

It's bad.

>It ruins any intrigue by making the supposed secret mission into a big dumb battle.

Literally "the Rebel alliance has recently won their first battle, striking from a hidden base"

>It introduces Marvel quips into the universe via jokey Vader and comic relief robot.

"Apology accepted, Captain Needa."

>It makes the Empire look like a bunch of dumbfucks.

As opposed to the OT showing them all as being great, what with Mr. "I hit my head on a short ceiling."

>Its main villain is a great actor playing a terrible and annoying character.

Not a strike against the OT lore.

>Its main hero is a so-so actor playing a piece of driftwood.

Not a strike against the OT lore.

>It has a Force monk that goes away from the original trilogy-style Force mechanics that Force Awakens made some effort to reintroduce and instead goes back into and above the prequels with superpowers and superhero quips.

>The ending scene is okay, but the whole movie's tone, events, and pacing clash with the movie it tries to set itself up as a direct prequel to.

Not a strike against the OT lore. It really doesn't clash as hard as you're claiming, either.

>It has a Force monk that goes away from the original trilogy-style Force mechanics that Force Awakens made some effort to reintroduce and instead goes back into and above the prequels with superpowers and superhero quips.

1. Dude is not a Force user.
2. Literally nothing he does or says goes against OT style Force mechanics. The only significant thing he does that might go against them is that he can fight well while being blind, and doesn't just kind of wiggle his stick around.

Damn user, calm down.

Lol, he's rebutting someones gripe about the movie, don't be mad.

>ok prequels

get the fuck out of here.

He doesn't even make any good arguments.

As if saying one line about an accepted apology as a clever play on words is equivalent to DON'T CHOKE ON YOUR AMBITIONS and a dumb robot that might as well say I AM GROOT every sentence, or an actor hitting their head on a set is the same as elite soldiers getting fucked up by militia and going "aaaaaaahhhh what do we doooooooooooo" when a few cargo ships come towards them.

Elite soldiers were defeated by teddy bears with rocks, yelled to close the blast doors, then immediately open the blast doors, ran away from one yelling guy in a vest and only turned around when they found like a dozen more guys, etc, etc.

The OT was never that serious, R1 does little to harm the "serious artistic integrity" of those films. Loads of characters had dry, sardonic senses of humor and lines or just dumb quips, like "get this walking carpet out of my way" and "get in there, I don't care what you smell". To say nothing of lines which by modern standards are INCREDIBLY cheesy, sometimes almost goofy.

But it's new and it makes a lot of money so it's automatically not for SEKRET CLUB Veeky Forums BASTION OF CULTURAL INTEGRITY, huh?

>tell one of my best friends that I don't consider TFA to be a bad movie but it's not very memorable or something I would watch just for the fun of it like the OT
>he starts saying I've been brainwashed by the internet to be a cynic that hates everything
>literally tears in his eyes when I tell him the TLJ trailer looked alright but I wasn't really hype
who was in the wrong here?

Jyn could have been better, she kind of got overwhelmed in her spot as main character by the scope and speed of events and the ensemble nature of the story, I'll grant you that. She didn't get to fully stretch her legs because of those factors, plus there was way too much telling about more interesting things about her (her time as a Rebel child soldier, her conflicted feelings about her father) rather than showing. That said, I thought she did a great job conveying a lot of emotion and feeling through physicality, pretty much any time she was DOING something rather than saying something I was all-in on her as the hero, and I did like the admittedly-not-fully-realized arc she went through going from a one-time hero trapped in her own bitterness and apathy to driven crusader out to save innocents and redeem her who fathers dreams.

I loved Cassian though, I think its crazy to say he had no charisma, his story was very compelling and I generally loved him as a Daniel Craig Bond in Star Wars, that world-weary brooding secret agent who just can't let his conscience and deeply held belief in the cause die no matter how bad he wants to.

Rogue One's ceiling may be around the same at ROTS, but its floor is about ten stories higher. I'd say its closer to the par set by ROTJ, or the better parts of CG Clone Wars.

Could you chill your anti-Marvel autism before you try and talk about Star Wars please? Seeing you say "ROGUE ONE IS MAAAARRVEEELLLLL" four or five times in two posts in really obnoxious.

probably a bit of both desu

it's really easy to accidentally come off like an asshole who only criticizes things and points out their flaws, and never seems to actually enjoy anything

The Empire won Endor's land battle and only lost a few guys initially to teddy bear ambushes.

The stormies on the Death Star were ordered to not kill or capture Han and the gang and to let them escape.

I mean, to be fair, you almost certainly HAVE been brainwashed by the internet to be a cynic who hates everything. Then again, though I almost certainly like TFA more than you I'm not too far past your sentiment in my overall objective opinion of it. On the other hand, I'm crazy hype for TLJ because it looks to have improved on TFA in every single way (except CG baby space seal) so... I guess you're both right?

Oh ! I'm so sorry, I didn't mean to talk poorly about Marvel. We all love Marvel here. Marvel is amazing. No one is breaking Disney's contract by saying Marvel is bad. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to make you think that.

Personally, I feel like we need more super-heroes in Star Wars, perhaps Obi-Wan in an Iron Man Suit? It would be so cool!

Your friend maybe needs to measure his expectations a little because that's how you get big letdowns but otherwise you're both in the right. Art and enjoyment are subjective. Things can be technical masterpieces but they fail to speak to an individual viewer - or some things can be weakly made and corny but resonate with selected consumers. And some shit is just weird.

Like, just because you personally don't like Monet doesn't make Monet a bad artist. Maybe that's just not your style of art, right? It's why culture and style of art in that culture evolves and changes over time.

Though as always, critical thinking is key. So long as you double check yourself and ask "I'm not just thinking that because some guys on the internet told me" you're doing fine.

I don't like anything Disney Star Wars related and it has gotten me called a cynic or overly-negative by a few fellow fans. Personally I don't care. If you don't like something then don't like it. Yeah, you can go overboard on being a cynical asshole, but if you just say "I don't like it" then it doesn't matter if people think you're being too negative or not.

Man, I'm not that user, but if you're actually claiming that the Empire doesn't look incompetent OFTEN in the OT, you're kidding yourself. Its part of the entire ethos of the movie, the Empire almost always wins because they're ruthless and have infinite resources and no moral about throwing their own men's lives away to get things done. The Rebels are small and ill-equipped but they are better men fighting for a better cause, and the films illustrate this simple comic-book morality constantly. Occasionally the Empire is competent and menacing and makes the heroes look helpless no matter what they do, but those moments are the exceptions, not the rules.

Go take a nap or something dude, jesus.

Not really.

They lose in ANH because of Tarkin's underestimation and in RotJ because of Palpatine's insistance on turning Luke. History is full of examples of extremely powerful groups losing because of one or two big mistakes made by their leaders.

Everything else aside from Tarkin's order to let the group escape the Death Star in the originals makes the Empire look damn competent. Remember how in the very first scene an outnumbered group of Stormtroopers obliterates a numerically-superior, well-entrenched group of Leia's personal bodyguard?

If that scene was reshot in R1 then it'd have 10,000 Stormtroopers run in and get blown up by a quirky character who then makes a funny quip regarding the fact that he just killed ten thousand dudes.

>the prequels are bad
When will this shitty meme end?

>"Apology accepted, Captain Needa."
I realized I'm incapable of reading this without Vader saying it in my head.

Fuck off with your lame strawman. Nobody mentioned anything about DBZ. The funny thing is Rey is already doing DBZ shit when she cracks the rock and the pebbles start lifting off the ground. But you probably think that is fine mouse shill.

I think its fine if you don't like post-Lucas Star Wars stuff, I just think its important to think critically about WHY you dislike it and be sure you're not allowing a bias you might not recognize poison the well. For example, I have a friend who said he's never going to watch anything Star Wars again after Force Awakens and his reasons are not in any way legitimate criticisms, he's just so wrapped up in how he's deified George Lucas since that whiny play-the-martyr interview after the sale (to the point he actually believes the Darth Jar Jar theory and that EVIL CORPORATION 20th Century Fox forced poor George to change his movie away from that genius idea)

For my own part, I've got a ton of issues with TFA even though I liked many things about it, but I find it hard to believe anyone who liked the the Pre-Disney stuff can HATE Rebels and Rogue 1 for reasons that are 100% legitimate, especially if they couple that hatred with a defense and declaration of love for the Prequels. They're objectively better in every metric. But that's just how I see it, maybe you really do see it differently.

What's their excuse for incompetence on Bespin? How come clone troopers are shown to be better than any storm trooper?

The world is not as it should be. It's filled with distortion, and 'ruin' can no longer be avoided.

Rev up those bingo sheets, boys.

there is also the chance of it being stolen, seems too risky

Here we go again

Why are Rebels and R1 better than the prequels "in every metric"?

Leia's Personal Bodyguard? The guys the Stormies fight in that first scene are wearing what look like airline uniforms and carrying handguns, while the troopers are wearing bodyarmor and carrying heavy rifles. And how do they overcome this numerical superiority and entrenchment you laud the rebels for bringing to bear? By pouring bodies through the hole they cut without any regard for almost guaranteed death until they get enough lucky shots off to break through. You call that a display of military competence?

In New Hope the Empire "looks damn competent," by doing such things as:

-Knocking on the door that R2 and 3PO are hiding behind and then immediately giving up when there is no answer.
-Failing to stop the escape of the Falcon despite a spy, a squad of troopers and two Star Destroyers (listing lazily to the left! That guy knows some maneuvers!),
-Having a bickering ten-year-old level argument in their board meeting
-Tarkin expressing a truly comical amount of shock when Leia lies to him about the base on Dantooine,
-Han and Luke bamboozling and killing the ENTIRE hangar bay security team from the scanning guys to the Stormies on the ramp to the officer and troopers in the security office
-Pulling off their stupid Wookie Prisoner Trick and killing everyone in the Prison Complex (and don't even try to claim this was all part of Tarkin's plan in letting them go, there is no way that happened before the Trash Compactor, Vader wasn't even 100% sure Obi Wan was there, let alone anyone else, until around when the jail break started)
-Needing Vader to personally take care of the Rebel Attack on the Death Star because they managed to shoot down TWO with their normal pilots and defense emplacements

I could probably think of more. The Empire is made to look bumbling OFTEN in that film, and all the others. As I said, menace exists, and the opening is a great example of it, but it is the exception, not the rule.

persona 5 had pretty mediocre gameplay and writing but god damn if it didn't absolute perfect its aesthetic

>mediocre gameplay and writing
The gameplay was the best in persona period and only falls short of the newer smts and the writing was better than p4 at least.

it's the first persona I've played

I meant mediocre as in mediocre, it's fine, not actively bad or anything, passable

but the aesthetic is what holds that stuff together, the visuals and music and themes combine so well that the predictable story and repetitive gameplay don't matter so much

Press X to Win gameplay would've still been fun with persona 5's visuals and Life Will Change playing

Because they're stories that are told with at least minimum competence, and feature no egregious undermining of their basic concepts or mind-numbing scenes that accomplish nothing within their own runtime. They also focus on real, relatable emotions that human beings have and present relationships that are not so fake and cardboard you could build a Darth Vader standee out of them. They also have some respect for the mystique and grandeur and mythological scale of the Star Wars setting instead of going to great pains to make it so mundane, codified and videogamey it makes me want to cry just thinking about it.

I could go on.

I think using "predictable," as a pejorative when talking about P5's story is entirely wrongheaded. But you're entitled to your opinion user.

>not so fake and cardboard

I'm not going to say the Prequels felt human or natural, but if you think Disney's movies have any level of emotion, humanity, or love put into them, you don't understand how a worldwide media conglomerate works.

Would you prefer cliche? It telegraphed everything and felt like just a generic anime.

Like, lots of major story points were given away at horrible times. The protagonists are freaking out over having potentially killed a guy, but you already know somebody else did it because the writers pulled their punches and showed you the assassination. You know Akechi will eventually come around to your side because he has an arcana with you. All the character development is really rapid and they don't let emotions simmer. Stuff like that.

What does the fact that Disney is a soulless corporate leech trying to squeeze both artists and audiences for every penny to fill the void where their heart should be with cash have to do with my post? I don't give a shit about Disney, just as I did not give a shit about Lucasfilms before them. Disney focus-tests and calculates every dumb doodad in the movies so they turn it into toys and shirts and protect their branding, and I don't give a fuck because if those doodads make the movie better instead of worse, like they did in the Prequels, the intent is irrelevant.

Electronic Arts put their fingers in the Mass Effect pie after they bought Bioware, their prints are all over Mass Effect 2 and the complete overhaul every element of that game got from story to gameplay, that didn't stop people from loving Mass Effect 2, or stop Mass Effect 2 from being a great work of fiction/art despite the robotic, inhuman horror EA poured into it to make it "marketable."

Disney's poison is clearly in Rebels and Rogue 1, I won't pretend it isn't. That didn't stop them from being better than the prequels or objectively good Star Wars.

>It telegraphed everything and felt like just a generic anime.

Isn't that supposed to be part of the point? The Persona series is basically about roleplaying as a High School Urban Fantasy Anime Protagonist. Chastising it for being cliche and telegraphed in that regard is like chastising Indianna Jones for being too cliche in its interpretation of Pulp Adventure Stories.

How are they better than the prequels? I guarantee that neither Edwards or Filoni claim their works were better than the prequels. The prequels had outstanding music, worldbuilding, and direction.

I don't think so, no.

The game DOES have moments that have emotional impact, it's not like that can't be done within that context.

How does Disney buying Lucasfilm have any relevance to Rebels and Rogue One?

Prequels
>pretty designs
>kinda fun to laugh at

R1/TFA:
>....?

What are you fools doing? This isn't the X-wing forums.

see Also FUCKING LOL at 'worldbuilding,' when did I get to a clickbait top-10 reasons the prequels are better than you think article? The worldbuilding in the Prequels is mostly garbage, none of the new places feel like real places and are full of dumb bullshit like Naboo's hollow planet core, none of the expanded character roster is worthwhile in the films themselves and are only redeemed in EU material, the new lore like Mediclorians is all shit, concepts like the Clone Army and the Seperatist Movement and the big Space Corperations all had to be salvaged from the scrap heap just like the characters in the EU, and only a few of the new alien races are at all memorable. 'Worldbuilding,' just... wow.

Fair play on the music though. If there's one thing Disney and the people they've hired to shepherd the franchise have fucked up in Star Wars full stop, its the soundtrack.

Jesus Christ can you be any more Reddit Letter Media? Naboo, Coruscant, Geonosis, Mustafa, Felucia, Kamino are all great planets. The clone army is great. The new vehicles and ships are great. You are literally not a star wars fan.
>but muh midichlorians!
Who cares they don't create the force. They are just attracted to people strong in the force you fucking brainlet.

Disney's worldbuilding is thinner than single layer toilet paper, and I would rather have the prequel's "bad"-acting than the bland first reading of the script tier acting of Disneywars. And if rehashing the original movies in a soft-reboot is respect, then I don't want people who respect the source material to be anywhere near Star Wars.

if each of those planet's physical attributes and cultures couldn't be reduced to 2-3 words each you might have a point, but
>lava planet
is something a 6 year old could come up with

How is that any fucking different than the OT planets shitposter-kun?

you said
>Naboo, Coruscant, Geonosis, Mustafa, Felucia, Kamino are all great planets
in response to
>The worldbuilding in the Prequels is mostly garbage, none of the new places feel like real places

Now you are moving the goalposts after you been outed. Fuck off to Reddit.

I'm not that user

>the prequels had good worldbuilding
is just a shit narrative

the visual designs were cool but the locations had no character or depth, and were mostly cliches you could've lifted from any other scifi work

Give me your most retarded Sienar Fleet Systems prototype ideas, /swg/. Starships, ground vehicles, superweapons, atmospheric craft, merchandise, anything goes as long as it's retarded enough to use in a tabletop campaign.

>attracted to people strong in the force

That's not what the movie says. You don't get to defend the movies with shit outside the movies

Coruscant already existed before the prequels and everything we see there was well-established long before those movies were made, no credit. Geonosis is a generic desert planet with no distinct features other than a fucktarded robot factory and a generic gladiator arena, there is nothing about it IN THE MOVIES that is interesting except the bug people (the bugs are one of the legit good parts of the worldbuilding in the prequels, they are a cool and memorable species). Mustafar is an empty volcano planet, nothing about it interesting or special until Rogue 1 brought it back as Vader's sanctum, Felucia is seen for 30 seconds in one film and is only interesting in expanded material, Naboo is a clusterfuck of random ideas throwing together swamps and Venetian cities and Atlantis and dinosaurs and giant fish and hollow cores and all kinds of other shit that, while beautifully designed, do not make for an effective, cohesive setting. Admittedly The Gungans are the other interesting and memorable alien race, unfortunately they are badly damaged by Jar Jar and their stupid way of talking.

The Clone Army is fucking dumb in the movies, it's only made cool by external material, you'd have to be an idiot to deny that even if you deny every other point I've made.

I will however admit that I did not consider the new vehicle and ship designs. For the most part, those are indeed very good in the Prequels. So, good job, you got me there, I concede that point. I'll even add on the weapon, armor and droid designs you didn't mention. However, I would argue that the new vehicle, weapon, armor, ship and droid designs in the post-Disney material are also mostly good, so I don't give the prequels any extra credit there.

Can we all stop bitching about each other's taste and talk about something that's actually interesting?

Post more squadrons, that was fun in the last thread.

Imps are pretty heavily done. Why not have a host of non-imperial squadrons. Rebel, Planetary Defense, or whatever.

Your opinion is in the extreme minority. Not to mention it sounds like you don't even like Star Wars. Why are you even here if that's the case?
>tatooine is a generic desert planet
>hoth is a generic ice planet
>endor is a generic forest planet
Also you complain about Naboo have too many ideas and yet shit on the other planets for being too one dimensional.

Tatooine and Hoth have more worldbuilding than any 10 Prequel planets, and if you can't see that I'm really wasting my time with this conversation.

Endor was pretty generic though. So good point there I guess?