Breaking Some Shit Edition

rec me a janky last card /edh/
playing bant grouphug but kinda want some "dont mess with my friend" kind of things. for my last card.
Considering False Prophet or Terastodon but anything fun is welcome.

Duelists heritage, you can give your friends double strike and kill your enemies from the shadows.

>no gonti
makes me sad
btw do paradox engine untap artifact lands?

i like this. To the Consider-List it goes

I see, thanks.
I definitely want to go cat trtibal, so I guess I'll start phasing out equipment for cats.
Cheers.

I was thinking gonti I just didn't think it was competitive enough.

Re artifact lands, sadly no because they are still "lands" as well as artifact unfortunately

Reposting from last thread because I can't decide which deck to run it in:

Is this good spicy tech for Gishath when I run around 27-31 creatures, 80% of them 4+ mana and around 10-15 land fetch spells to thin my deck and ramp?
Just got it from a friend and not sure if I should put it in Gishath because of Enrage synergies and fighting the shit out of everything fitting the theme or to put it in my Kaalia Angel Tribal to cheat out my Angels in a different way without reducing my hand size or needing mana rocks to hardcast them once Kaalia dies.

It works in gishath yes now fuck off

Apparently, my Gonti deck is unfun. It is a bad deck based around effects like Sadistic Sacrament and loses to just about every deck with more than one win condition.

But Crumbling Sanctuary apparently drags the game out too much. Even though I think it is super fun.

>When do you feel it is okay to scoop?
anytime MLD happens

I want to play with Thrasios/Tymna, but I am too poor to buy a Lion's Eye Diamond right now for the Auriok Salvagers combo. What are some other good ways to get infinite mana in my colors that isn't super pricey? I was thinking Peregrine Drake/Deadeye Navigator, but they're both high CMC and it's pretty slow.

so what do i do with saksia? ive had a sealed saksia precon for a while now but i dont know what to do with it

Burn it and make a video about it.

You've done this twice now.

Infect

or Ball Lightning tribal

What are some fun mana sinks ala Gigantomancer?

When one guy starts his kingmaker strategy.

put him in a deck that lets you untap creatures so you can spam that on small shit, like a GW Tokens deck.

>Thread Question
Never. Play until you're dead.

>When do you feel it is okay to scoop?

When it's 10:00pm, I have to get up in the morning, and the turn before I break the stall and win the game somebody drops a Cataclysm. I mean, There a chance I could still win, but I'm tired and have shit to do in the morning.

Dictate of the Twin Gods
Furance of Rath
Gratuitous Violence
Insurrection
Mass Mutiny
Mob Rule
Basically, Red splash Abzan?

Did you even read the card or that post?

Why would you need to untap creatures to use him? Also, I was asking for suggestions for mana sinks not ways of making him work. He is pretty straight forward.

I scoop when I know I'm going to lose, giving my opponents the benefit of the doubt. If someone has a convincing boardstate and I top deck garbage that won't help, even if the next turn I could maybe top deck something to save me, I'll scoop.

Same if it's my turn, my opponent has lethal, and I don't have anything to save me, I'll scoop and admit I'm outplayed. I figure it's like chess where you could draw it out for the theoretical stalemate, or you could concede and play again with less hard feelings.

I often ponder this, so I'm curious as to what Veeky Forums's opinion is: what do you feel is a good balance of spot removal and board wipes in a removal package?

>inb4 "it's meta dependent," i'm looking for a baseline to start off of more than anything

What about control/combo players?

Well it depends on your meta

Or you could not be a prick and give me an actual answer.

Okay? Good for you? What, do you want validation?

it depends on your meta

Lotus Bloom is a little harder to land but does the same thing, plus you don't have to discard your hand.

It absolutely depends on your meta you mongoloid. If everyone is playing creatureless control/combo then the correct amount of wipes is close to zero, if you have a lot of aggro and creature value then you need more.

Maybe you could start by describing how is the meta where you play. You are basically asking "no matter which situation, what is good?"

Depends on the deck senpai.

Drana has built in spot removal, so you need less of it. A control deck usually needs more spot removal because problematic permanents are more concerning than a bunch of creatures with propaganda out.

What do you want to build?

Whatever happened to the Discord.

i've been wondering the same thing... pretty sure she, along with every aggressive commander, just won't work in my super wrath-heavy meta.

...

Drana
Geth
Olivia
Wildheart Invoker
Obsidian Fireheart
Guildmages

>ゴゴゴゴゴゴゴゴ

Brago tech

high quality mana sink for my enchantress deck

But with Auriok Salvager, he returns it to your hand, so I have to re-suspend the Bloom, so I can't get infinite mana with it. Unless i'm missing something.

thrasios/vial-smasher is way easier to do on a budget because your infinite mana combos are buried alive/necrotic ooze or animate dead/worldgorger dragon

It's probably easier to deal forty damage than go with the janky mill strategy. Consider reworking it.

What cards do you need in the yard with Ooze for infinite mana?

Pili-Pala and something that taps for 2+ mana

how?

devoted druid and morselhoarder is the most reliable

It's so meta & Deck dependent that baselines are really hard to give. So I'm going to try to get really complicated and math it.

>The game typically ends when a "Must answer" threat goes unanswered, or the board spirals out of control.
Control locks count as "Out of control" boards for everyone else.
>An average game lasts X turns.
X depends on your Meta. Don't count turns after a game is decided (Say, once the stax lock has you), just meaningful turns that you could take
>On one out of every Y turns a player takes, he or she will probably do something "Must Answer"
Y depends on the power level of your meta. It's 1 or 2 in competitive, but could be 4 or 5 for casual, maybe even higher.
>The earliest threat of the board going insane is turn Z
Basically, are you fighting Krenko or Gisarth off with your wipes?
>I access about N cards a turn.
More draw power = you can get away with fewer 'business' cards. The baseline for this (no extra draws) is N=1+(7/X), your draw for each turn plus your starting seven spread out over all the turns you expect to take. It's a safe estimate if you don't have a TON of draw

>How many answers do I need?
Opponents*(X/Y) is the number of "Must answer" threats. I'll call this Q. You don't have to answer them all personally unless you only have one opponent, but should probably be prepared to take more than "Your fair share". That is, if you have 4 opponents (And so does each of your opponents), maybe expect to be holding the answer Q/3, rather than Q/4, in case somebody drops the ball. Thus, Q/3 is the number of answers you need to see in a game. Depending on how many cards you see, this could mean a higher or lower percent of your deck dedicated to answers.

never mind I can see clearly now

>No, seriously, how many?
In an 8-turn game with no draw power you access 15 cards. If you have four opponents and expect a must-answer threat every four turns, you face eight threats and want to be able to handle at least 3 of them personally. 3/15 = 1/5 = 20/100, or 20 cards that count as "answers". Some of those will be your board wipes and others may serve purposes beyond being an answer.

>How many wraths
First figure out how many times the board goes ape per game. This is basically x/z, since a wipe resets everybody's progress, not just the most advanced board. So if things could get really grim by turn 5 in an 8 turn game, you expect to see 1, maybe two insane boards. If this is the same game as above, where you needed 3 answers, you need 1 of those answers to be a board wipe. Extrapolating, if you have 21 total answers, seven of which are wipes, you should be pretty good.

>But I don't wanna! That's way too much!
All this advice assumes you;re "The control". Not necessarily a control deck, but the more reactive, rather than proactive player. IF you'd rather go combo or aggro and force people to burn their answers on YOU, replace answers with Recursion or Threats OVER AND ABOVE THE BASELINE. So, we got that in an average game everybody plays a must-answer threat twice and the board goes out of control by turn 5. If you expect to go "Must answer" three times, rather than two, in those eight turns one of those is pressure over and above your opponents, so we can drop the answers from 3 to 2. IF you also go out of control a turn early in a consistent manner, that means someone else has to burn their wipe to stop you (and incidentally your other rivals) so I'd probably drop that another half-answer needed. At that point you're looking more at 10% answers, and could probably get by with 6-7 spot and 3 wipes.

If I don't have to, I really don't want to change colors.
Do I need to be in Vial Smasher/red to do that? I already run buried alive, and throwing in Pili-Pali would be easy. I'd just need to find something to tap for 2.
Is there something else non-red that interacts with Devoted Druid and N-ooze like that?

>Is there something else non-red that interacts with Devoted Druid and N-ooze like that?
yes, but they all require a haste enabler like greaves if you want to do it instantly. the morselhoarder thing is a lot less vulnerable because it goes off instantly.

and being in red gives you access to the worldgorger dragon combo, the second most reliable infinite mana combo the deck has.

honestly, your deck doesn't really need to have access to red mana for any of this to work. you're probably never going to cast vial-smasher, you're just using it so you have access to the cards that make your reanimate spells generate infinite mana for you.

The problem is that my deck was Abzan, and i'm turning it into Thrasios/Tymna to add blue. I really only wanted infinite mana because with Thrasios at the helm of the deck, having infinite mana means I can cast him and draw my whole deck, and just win, really. If I cut out white, i'd have to change the deck pretty substantially.

you probably don't want to run thrasios/tymna as your commander for an abzan goodstuff deck... they're really only good with the infinite combo, otherwise they're both sort of dead weight commanders, and if your whole deck isn't dedicated to that plan it's probably not gonna be that great.

I was running Abzan with the infinite combo of Karmic Guide and friends. Karador is just pretty slow, and the draw engine of Tymna is far from dead weight in my experience. I was also considering Sigar instead of Thrasios if I wanted to stay in Abzan, I just liked the idea of splashing in some blue. And I figured if I did that, why not try to generate infinite mana somehow so I can abuse Thrasios.

wouldn't the cards that slot into a tymna/thrasios deck from karador also slot into a thrasios/vial-smasher deck?

you're not really getting anything out of white if your goal is making infinite mana and your budget says you can't afford LED

Thrasios/Vial-Smasher doesn't have white, which is the Karmic Guide combo, so if I went with those two, i'd have to change my wincon.
My goal isn't infinite mana, I just thought if I was going to have Thrasios as one of my commanders, it would be obvious to try and include at least one way to generate infinite mana. Because if I don't have a way to generate infinite mana, he's just in the command zone to give me access to blue. And that might be good enough, because i'm going to give Flash Hulk a shot. That was really the main reason I am dipping into blue. Infinite mana to abuse Thrasios is just gravy.

alright, fair point.

if you continue to optimize the deck down the road, you'll eventually hit a point where you remove the karmic guide combo in favor of more ways to get infinite mana for thrasios because thrasios + labman is just a more efficient wincon in the end.

tuned thrasios/tymna isn't a very fun deck, it's just competitive as hell.

>Is there something else non-red that interacts with Devoted Druid and N-ooze like that?
I use pic in gitrog and meren. Add in jarad to instant gib everyone

That's what I am afraid of. I like the labman, but it seemed like every Thrasios/Tymna deck was more for Doomsday/High Tide shenanigans. I just like reanimator stuff, but it's hard to find a balance between tuning the deck to make it competitive and building it to be functional and not oppressive.
Partners are cool, and mana dorks hitting and drawing with Tymna is cool, too. Maybe in the end, i'll cut Flash Hulk and try Sigar/Tymna.

110.6b. Permanents enter the battlefield untapped, unflipped, face up, and phased in unless a spell or ability says otherwise.

Recently built a shu yun deck How much more can I really improve it? reason for no sol ring is after testing the ring doesn't do much with cantrips
tappedout.net/mtg-decks/bulletproof-monk-3/

>Thread question
Only if there is no clear way of making a comeback or someone goes infinite, scooping during combat is for fags.

>Kruphix eldrazi shitter taps out for Kruphix
>Eor Whir for Cranial Plating and put a counter on Hangarback Walker
>Untap, use Welder to swamp Hangarback and Sharuum, getting Ethersworn Canonist back off of the etb
>Dump some cheap artifacts and swing in for 21 commander on Kruphix
Breya as a midrange goodstuff deck is pretty fun guys

But wouldn't that mean it isn't turned face up, since it exiles then comes back?

Right.

You pay 3W to manifest the top card of your library- you put it on board as a face-down 2/2 creature with no subtype, color, name, mana cost, or abilities. Then you blink it with Brago. Assuming it wasn't an Instant or Sorcery, you'll exile it face-up, and it'll enter the battlefield face-up, as whatever it actually "is".

So basically you could pay 3W to manifest some huge-ass 8 drop, blink it with Brago, and get it for a discount.

There is no reason to not run Sol Ring.

Just chitchatting about my scrubby playgroup.

Oh for sure. I'll be cleaning up the deck, but honestly, I should just scrap the whole thing.

Except I don't want to

Then say "I don't want to". You don't need to fake validate it by saying "This effectively fucking free card works badly with cantrips".

If the ring doesn't do much, why the fuck are you running other mana rocks. Hell, most of your cantrips are CMC 2 and it DOES help them.

Got it. Was thinking they meant the life gain would trigger.

Because you wanted to start shit you dumbass faggot

They produce colored mana which I need more than colorless

I'm a "dumbass faggot" for challenging your stupid-as-shit justification for not running one of the most OP cards in the format?

Nah, just a way to potentially cheaply get stuff. Or even if you don't get things 'cheaper', it's fun to play "WHO'S THAT POKEMON" with your face-down cards.

Hell, I run Unexpected Results in basically any deck that can run it. Usually I hit a land or two and then like, a 2 drop, but it's worth it just for the entire table having fun with "What's he gonna hit?"

>I don't want to use sol ring
>use it
>I don't want to
>but it works
>no it doesnt
>I'm not an asshole

I'm fine with you not running it because you don't want to.

That was not your fucking argument. Your argument was "it works badly with cantrips", which is bullshit, and then you walked it back to "I don't want to run it".

Don't give me a bullshit non-reason for running something, then act like I was attacking a reason you gave -later-. "I don't want to run it" is a 100% valid reason for not running any given card. "It's not good enough" is a flat-out fucking lie for 'why I'm not running Sol Ring', so why would you say that instead of "I just don't want to run it", you autistic sperglord fuck?

>builds a deck around the most broken card type
>uses one of the most broken commanders
>calls others shitters

jesus christ this shit is insane

i just built this and i've been able to reliably control the board for the first few turns then ult Ugin on turn 6 every single game.

am i an asshole for playing sisay?

Inherently? No. But if the build you have is oppressive, and stronger than your group "usually" deals with, I'd advise toning the power down and/or not leaning heavily on Planeswalkers.

it was a relatively tame enchantress deck before the planeswalker rules change. after the change i figured i'd slot in a few planeswalkers and doubling season and the power of the deck suddenly skyrocketed.

i only added like 5 cards, i didn't expect the deck to suddenly triple in power.

Planeswalkers are much slower, and taking a full turn to set up Doubling Season puts a big Target on your head (or at least it should). But if you can lay a walker while Doubling Season is up, it's really strong. So, if people are letting you lay double loyalty walkers, yes, you can do some big powerful plays.
What walkers did you add? I'm curious.

I'd say the easiest solution there is to just kill Doubling Season.

I have a Bant Enchantress Pillowfort deck with a decent complement of Planeswalkers, and I ended up cutting Doubling Season because all it did was create feel-bads where I'd hold onto a Narset or something because if I played it with Season out, I'd be able to ult her, and my group would just get frustrated if I didn't.

OG garruk to untap serra's sanctum, karn, and ugin.

doubling season usually doesn't take a turn to set up because i make 20+ mana the turn i cast it and can just cast any walker i want right after.

>kioras follower
>illusionists bracers
>some mana source
a land with market festival is a good option, 3 mana per activation

Then the root cause is that you're able to set up a ludicrous board state such that you can make 20 mana in one turn without interference. Your playgroup are scrubs with poor threat assessment, and I advise you depower your deck or accept that you will body them with anything stronger than Craw Wurms.

i think it's more that everyone is playing super aggressive decks and no one is playing any real answers to things.

i hope this power spike in my deck will convince at least one person to start playing blue.

I'd advise against it. Using "I'll build a deck much stronger than what my group is used to, so they'll build stronger decks" tends to just create an escalating arms race that'll either splinter the group, or eventually hit a peak and spiral back to "Let's intentionally underpower things because we had more fun with that". That's my experience, anyway.

i don't want them to build stronger decks, i just want my stale meta to evolve. they're all playing with tricked out mana bases, expensive cards, original duals, and all that shit, they're just not playing any answers to anything. it's getting boring when every game is "who can build the board and swing for a million first?"

Have you considered sitting down with your group and expressing your frustration with the 'staleness' of things, and throwing out the suggestion that people build new decks?

So bracers on the follower, tap it and untap itself and any mana producer. That's actually not too bad of an idea. Only 2 cards, and I have plenty of ways of tutoring them up.
Thanks for the idea! I'll definitely throw them in!