Xenophilia is one of humanity's oldest fetishes. And yet, weirdly, in D&D, it tends to be seen as the most taboo. Aside from half-elves & half-orcs, who're mostly viewed as grandfathered in from Tolkien, D&D tends to either just ignore the idea altogether, or portray it as something dangerous, perverse and evil.
Does it have to be, though? Can we discuss setting aspects or plot ideas that portray xenophilia in a more positive light, especially without needing to go into overt magical realmism?
Also, post sexy non-human ladies here, I guess, if you want to.
The problem with it is that most xenos look like humans with only a few minor differences.
James Smith
Wouldn't that actually be a strength? I mean, really, guys who'd bang that huge-breasted minotauress or who study magic to woo a sphinx queen or who seek to prove worthy of the love of a dragoness are probably still in a minority even in a D&D world - if more common than in ours.
But wanting to bang the dwarf chick who looks like pic attached? Well, you don't really need to be too deviant to try and pick her up, do you?
Alexander Gutierrez
Honestly, some of the kneejerk things that pop into my head when I consider this topic:
Noble families may actually be more prone to being half-human. If sex with compatible non-humans isn't taboo, then power becomes a more universal aphrodisiac. Dwarven clan-heirs with deep mines, elven nobles, even gnomish mages all become much more attractive as political consorts.
This doesn't entirely stop racism against half-breeds - the poor half-orcs and half-goblins are still low on the pecking order, unless orcs n' goblins are not outsiders - but it does give some half-breed races a distinct edge in society.
Likewise, I could see a lesser deity taking up the portfolio of promoting interspecies love, and acting as the guardian/patron god of halfbreed races.
Dominic Rogers
I actually had a somewhat similar idea. In real life, nobles and especially royals only ever married each other to keep divinely appointed blood strong, to the point where most kings in Europe were cousins or brothers or uncles to each other. So in a fantasy setting with divine right to rule, the divine right might outweigh mundane things like race, so that nobles and royals basically end up as their own crazy mutt breed while the general populations stay pretty much separate and distinct.
Chase Hernandez
No just strong
Kayden Wood
Hells, with half-dragons, aasimar, genasi and even tieflings as real things, plus the powers of magic, you have a real argument for nobles trying to court outside of their species; what could be more "divine blood" than having literal angel blood in your veins? Or the power of a draconic ancestor?
Hells, if you spun maftets as "half-sphinxes" into your setting lore, would marrying a gynosphinx and accepting their descendants will be powerful sorceresses with elven longevity who just happen to look like winged catgirls be a huge sacrifice for an ambitious noble?
Logan Walker
it could be inferred or implied to be more common in DnD settings than you think.
It's just that those couples often don't produce kids, possibly just flat out can't.
Mason Ramirez
True. But then, do we have to have it that way? I know it's the "realistic" option, and Veeky Forums is surprisingly infatuated with "realism in fantasy", but still, in a world where physical gods exist and magic can do just about anything, personally, I can buy sapients crossbreeding relatively easily, and magic stepping in where nature can't provide.
...Come to think of it, would an order of magic-users who hone their skills to create functioning, biological offspring for otherwise incompatible couples work better as a wizard's order, as a cleric order, or as a mixture of the two?
Nathan Perez
have fun satisfying the gyrosphinx user, holy moly.
Evan Cox
Dragons exist and them producing half dragon offspring is a common dnd trope. Your arguement is invalid.
Jaxon Perez
Well, the issue there then becomes trying to work out the numerous half-blooded races.
I mean just half-elves, when you think about how many elves there are, would become a pain.
Some people prefer the TES/Pokemon option where the child just shares the race of their parent.
In my original setting donut steel, the child shares the races of the parent they share the same sex with, but the resulting child will take on some characteristics of the mother's race.
So dwarven father and an elf mother have a son. The son will be a dwarf, but he's going to be just noticeably less stocky than his father, and probably have more pronounced 'head ridges' as an analogy to his mother's antlers.
Funny enough, there's an express reason for WHY humans, elves, dwarves, orcs, and beastfolk can interbreed
The gods explicitly wanted it to happen as a "thank you" to humanity when humans opened their world for the gods and their people ("So, basically a cosmic: I like you, come over and have sex with my daughter!"), and also because the non-human races are refugees, their respective pantheons made them compatible in the event it was needed for each side to repopulate the other.
Dylan Kelly
Serious question: how would you actually design the "details" of a god whose portfolio is basically xenophilia and hybrid races?
I mean, beyond the obvious "goodly promoter of love & tolerance or ruthless/evil breed a superior stronger race through intermingling" split.
I've never really been interested in the gods of D&D, so I've no clue how to go about making my own.
Dylan Richardson
>Does it have to be, though? Can we discuss setting aspects or plot ideas that portray xenophilia in a more positive light. dunno bout you but I had an Idea for a world with countries that have both a human pop and a significant non human pop, but both are integrated and intertwined in different ways and to varying sucess, such as having a human king but the humans adopting the non human races religion. Interbreeding is in some countries common, with the possible offspring being either fully one or the other, or possibly having traits from both parents, such as a minotaur human pairing, the offspring may look totally normal aside from having cow like pupils, or a minotaur looking just like one but having the human parents eye and hair color. I like the possiblities of wide genetic varience.
Ryder Morales
>have fun satisfying the gyrosphinx user >gyrosphinx
I'm getting dizzy just thinking about it!
Caleb Roberts
wouldn't the population harmonize after a while, tho?
Brody Foster
Dwarves are pretty much the same species as regular humans. That's why they can have offspring.
Henry Bell
I subscribe to male-only dwarves with cloacas.
Carter Evans
>wouldn't the population harmonize after a while, tho? yes and no, just because they are intertwined doesnt mean that there are not a lot of racial same pairings, plus if you have a human and elf pairing for example, if the child is a mix, but marries and human, and its offspring marries a human, and that happens for a few generations the descendent will be a human with maybe a few percentage points worth of elven influence, but it wont show in any way. Plus I'm assuming there may be a wide genetic diversity amongst the non humans themselves, like a human sized minotaur/holstaur or whatever who displays holstein like qualities, while another is a towering ankole watusi esque one. And of course you can have outside human and non human immigration to varying degrees, from open frontiers borders to island isolationist nations affecting racial and genetic traits
Austin Lee
In standard dnd they cant. In dark sun theyre sterile
Chase Peterson
Eros
Camden Hernandez
Perhaps sort of god of reveling, lust, passions and whatnot.
Blake Baker
>D&D tends to either just ignore the idea altogether, or portray it as something dangerous, perverse and evil. More like it is in no way relevant to adventuring when there are no resultant offspring
Daniel Hall
Isn't Half-Dwarves a thing in Eberron?
Aasimar and Tieflings are pretty much the result of humans screwing celestial or infernal beings way far back in their bloodline
Blake Lopez
>still in a minority even in a D&D world more for me then
Jason Gomez
Dragonlance and Kingdoms of Kalamar, actually. Eberron did have consensually conceived as the default for half-orcs and a very large, self-sustaining population of half-elves born as a result of aristocratic ambitions that backfired, though.
Ah? We have a true afficianado of xenophilia here, do we?
Liam Foster
>Ah? We have a true afficianado of xenophilia here, do we? mmmaaayyybbbeeeee
Charles Reed
I like it. Not!Greek city states, each lead by descendants of satyr, or centaur, or harpy, wondering what to do against the Bastet empress from not!Egypt, threatening full scale war. At the same time, a new kingdom rises from north, with its royalty having wings and the king a hovering halo.
Noah Rodriguez
>Producing on purpose >It's a fluke that happens to certain eggs =Dragonborn >Or is done through a ritual involving their blood= half dragon
Easton Morris
Eh, that feels more like the kind of deity this would be tied to, not the deity proper.
Plus, I mean more mechanical stuff; name, symbol, beliefs, etc. I've never designed a god before.
Jace Cruz
...
Samuel Davis
He's talking about rubbing nasties with monster girls and sphinxes not cousin fuckers who don't know about toilets.
Tyler Harris
>Dwarves are pretty much the same species as regular humans. five editions of D&D no half-dwarf race
Julian Barnes
A goddess who would have many faces whose symbol would be a fasces tied with a silken red string to represent peace through carnal devotion. The face you would see if you met her is the face of your lover and her emissaries act as matchmakers with bardlike powers, wearing masks marked with her symbol.
Jonathan Smith
Actually, we had muls (grimdark half-dwarves, but still half-dwarves) in 2e and 3, Krynnish half-dwarves in at least 3e, Kingdoms of Kalamar half-dwarves in 3.0, and non-grimdark muls in 4e.
Ooh! That's a great idea; thank you so much!
Cameron Ward
neat idea
Owen Rivera
>And yet, weirdly, in D&D, it tends to be seen as the most taboo. Aside from half-elves & half-orcs, who're mostly viewed as grandfathered in from Tolkien, D&D tends to either just ignore the idea altogether, or portray it as something dangerous, perverse and evil. >tieflings >aasimar >dragonborn >genasi >sorcerers Maybe try talking about shit you actually know something about?
Gabriel Diaz
Newfags out Know your Mul
Josiah Harris
So, morbidly curious here now: are there any anons out there who weren't furious and offended by the Dragon article suggesting you could work mul into a non-Dark Sun setting by A: making them a drow experiment in breeding superior slaves that got out of hand, and B: making them fertile?
Justin Edwards
>Can we discuss setting aspects or plot ideas that portray xenophilia in a more positive light, especially without needing to go into overt magical realmism? not sure if dumb or trolling
Easton Peterson
>Does it have to be, though? Can we discuss setting aspects or plot ideas that portray xenophilia in a more positive light, especially without needing to go into overt magical realmism? Honestly? I assume that stance is really only true outside the major cities/trade routes where people will almost never meet someone not of their species
In the cities/trade hubs things would be much more cosmopolitan and while not the norm, xenophilia wouldn't cause anyone to bat an eye unless it was something VERY strange
Yeah, in a setting like D&D I could easily buy royal blood/divine right being due to having some ancestor who probably looked like some sort of divine being to people at one time
Hell, a lot of old stories about kings had them have magical abilities, maybe they actually have spell like abilities cause their great aunt was a goddess?
Ryan Wilson
>anthropomorphic weak
Lucas Adams
if you had a non anthropomorphic one to share it would be most appreciated
Connor Long
I don't think I really have anything blue board friendly, and my taste is probably shit in other ways anyway.
Juan Perez
>and my taste is probably shit in other ways anyway. it dont matter, we all /d/enerates
Luke Edwards
Beyond Human hybrids, I've never understood why there have never been official half-Orc half-Elves.
If A and B can reproduce, and A and C can reproduce, B and C should be compatible, right?
Kayden Collins
In fact, Kingdoms of Kalamar for 3rd edition actually agreed with you; they did up elf-orcs called "Tel-amhothlans", although mechanically they were nothing majorly impressive:
+2 Dexterity, -2 Intelligence, -2 Charisma Medium Base Speed 30 feet Low-Light Vision Orc Blood: Treat as an Orc for all racial effects keying off of race +1 racial bonus on saves against Enchantment school spells and spell-like abilities +1 racial bonus on Listen, Spot and Search checks Favored Class: Fighter
No, the artwork here's not official, but hey, it looks like a very harmonious blend of elf & orc, don't it?
Xavier Collins
I may just be a /d/eviant, but I always figured that there's actually a lot of drow male on female orc sexing going on in the Underdark. Orc women are, by classic D&D lore anyway, naturally submissive, and drow males... well, they may not like the looks too much, but better a plump, big-breasted greenskin with tusks than a drow female who might just kill & eat you for lulz after the act, right?
Not saying I have a bit of writing planned about clandestine tender drow-orc relationships, because I know that sort of filth ain't welcome here.
Christopher Long
Ring species are a thing, where by some happenstance populations have diverged enough that A and C can't reproduce, but not enough to keep A and B and B and C from reproducing
Joshua Collins
I've learned something today. Thank you.
Julian Stewart
naturally submissive orc women?
Pretty much all people get submissive if you beat them enough. Drow use orc slave labor, but honestly, I don't think that male elves have quite the "do anything for pussy" level of retardation that humans have, so its less of a societal problem for them.
After the first century of adulthood, sex just becomes kinda boring, especially when you're male.
Joshua Hernandez
>naturally submissive orc women? What book was hat in again?
Evan Thomas
They're just prettier Half-Orcs.
Julian Evans
Wouldn't this require both orcs and elves to have descended from humans? I guess it is reasonable, but Tolkien orcs at least are descended from Elves who are entirely unrelated to humans, though still produce hybrids.
Luis Rogers
Not really, just all three having a common ancestor Hell orcs could be the first race and humans diverged off of them and elves diverged off of humanity
Tyler Rogers
Classic AD&D lore; in orc society, the males rule the roost, so the women are basically slaves. Actually, I think maybe they're a little better off than drow males are in terms of being the subordinate sex - male orcs don't tend to kill female orcs just for pleasure the way that drow females do their menfolk.
Very true, but really, we all know the reason half-elves and half-orcs are a thing and elf/orcs or half-dwarves aren't is because of the Tolkien clause.
Juan Turner
It must be hard adventuring with a fucked up knee
Asher Cox
Yeah, everybody comments on that aspect of the picture. I don't know who the artist is - I got the pic off of an orc thread on Veeky Forums weeks ago - and I don't know why they fucked it up. I just wish anons would shut up about it.
Bentley Ortiz
>AD&D lore Ah, that explains it, got in during 3E, still I massively prefer my female orcs to not be submissive
I actually like the idea that orc culture is built on the idea that letting someone have power over you is a borderline sin
Cameron James
Just full raider philosophy. Anything you can break between your hands is worthless, victims deserve everything they can't stop.
Jackson Myers
Orc genes are dominant and all their hybrids just stat as half orcs
John Stewart
I thought orc x elf = human No?
Mason Powell
No. Where do you people get this from?
Aiden Taylor
Depends on the setting.
Tolkien Orc ancestors were enslaved, tortured and corrupted Elves
Logan Sullivan
Half-Fiends and (chromatic) Half-Dragons are some of the most devastating problems you can have on a material plane. They grow like mortals and half overwhelming inclinations towards evil. Half-Celestials are much nicer, but they are rare, Celestials will not take mortals by force like the evil races and they struggle to fall in romance with ephemeral mortalkind.
As for other races? Most of them are simply not compatible, or lethal to mate with.
Mason Baker
Tolkien had like a half dozen proposed orc origins. That particular one he didn't really care for. Unfortunately he died before settling on one, but that is the one that caught on.
Sebastian Sanders
Personally, I prefer to let most halfbreed races have their own unique culture, rather than just being "stuck between two worlds". That might make sense in the right circumstances, but if the race isn't just a series of flukes and once-loffs, you'd expect them to define themselves a bit better.
I mean, with some semblance of orcish fertility, you'd expect half-orcs to quickly expand enough to found their own settlements, right?
Any anons out there agree with this?
Connor Murphy
>Any anons out there agree with this? i can, id prefer they either are just part of the main culture or have their own if there are any number of them
Jackson Williams
Wasnt Tolkin after being more like typical myth and lore, so there are different tales about one subject. Like every race or clan could have different tales. That why several characters or gods have multiple names. Because different authors, language or various characters mixed together. Just like real myths.
Benjamin Lee
In DnD/Forgotten Realms it is probablöy due to the enmity between Corellon and Grumsh. If your "Creator-Gods" hate each other, so do their People (for the most part) and you probably wouldn't want your Races to interbreed. Then again, the complete book of Elves said something about Elves being able to die whenever they want to, so I guess Rape-Chilödren would be out of the Quest anyways?
Aiden Fisher
The Forgotten Realms agrees. Back in the old days it used to talk about the proliferation of half-breeds being a natural result of two groups living near each other long enough, and how as a result you have lands of just mixed blooded people. TSR didn't much care for that though.
Greenwood has spoken before about elf-orc hybrids in the realms being a very rare thing but being possible.
Aaron Young
A drow experiment? Why not make then an illithid experiment, theyve literally bred several races into existence like that.
Bentley Wright
-2 int -2 Cha but +2 dex? That makes no sense. Elves have the same str as humans.
Granted I think half orcs (half human) should be +2 str/con, -2 int/wis
Nathan Scott
I always thought half orcs were mules or their progeny simply bred true for whatever the race of the partner was
James Gonzalez
Yeah, Kingdoms of Kalamar had some interesting ideas - like half-githyanki and true-breeding half-dwarves & half-gnomes - but, mechanically, they were bloody awful designers.
Actually, how would anons rank this as an attempt at making a 5e equivalent to the race?
Tel-Amhothlan Ability Score Modifiers: +1 Dexterity, +1 Strength Size: Medium Speed: 30 feet Vision: Darkvision 60 feet Relentless Endurance: When you are reduced to 0 hit points, but not killed outright, you can instead choose to be reduced to 1 hit point instead. After using this trait, you cannot use it again until you complete a long rest. Fey Ancestry: You have Advantage on saving throws against being Charmed and are Immune to Magical Sleep effects. Keen Senses: You have Proficiency in the Perception skill. Muddied Heritage: Tel-Amhothlans are chaotic breed and can favor either orcish or elvish aspects of their lineage. Choose the Orcish Brutality, Elvish Grace or Fae Magic subrace options.
Orcish Brutality: Ability Score Modifier: +1 Constitution Savage Attacks: When you score a critical hit with a melee weapon attack, you increase the damage inflicted by +1 dice. Powerful Build: You are treated as being one size category larger to determine your capacity to Push, Pull, Drag, Lift and Carry.
Elvish Grace: Ability Score Modifier: +1 Dexterity Fleet-Footed: Your base walking speed increases to 35 feet. Natural Athlete: You have Proficiency in the Athletics skill.
Fae Magic: Ability Score Modifier: +1 Charisma Mystic Talent: You can cast one Wizard cantrip of your choice. Charisma is your casting ability score when casting the cantrips provided by this trait. At the DM's permission, at character creation, you can trade this racial feature for Drow Magic (PHB pg24); this choice cannot be undone later.
Benjamin Howard
He also mentioned the existence of dwelves, too. I've actually tried to stat those up for 5e. Not sure how well they work.
Because illithids are kind of cliche, and because it's actually not that out of character for drow - chitines are traditionally a drow experiment gone wrong.
David Reed
>Half-breed culture No such thing exists.
Samuel Bennett
Eberron's half-elves disagree with you there.
Liam Lopez
Half-breeds will usually try to stick with whatever culture one of their parents belongs, even if the pure-bloods despise them
Jacob Flores
This is my kind of thread.
Hudson Clark
I bet nobody remembers this race from the days of Mystara:
N'djatwa Heirs to an ancient union between unusually civilized ogre tribes and the degenerate elven civilisation that made use of them as mercenaries, n’djatwa are an uncanny breed possessing the forms of elves, but with the frames of ogres, combining might and magic with the vices of both their progenitors.
Ability Score Modifiers: +2 Intelligence, +1 Strength Size: Medium Speed: 30 feet Vision: Darkvision 60 feet Fey Ancestry: You have Advantage on saving throws against the Charmed effect and are Immune to Magical Sleep effects. Powerful Build: You are treated as one size category larger to determine your capacity to Carry, Drag, Lift, Pull, and Push. Crushing Fists: Your unarmed strikes do 1d4 + Str modifier bludgeoning damage instead of the normal damage. If you have the Martial Arts class feature, you use the higher possible damage dice. Keen Senses: You have Proficiency in Perception. Elven Magic: You know one Cantrip of your choice from either the Druid spell list or the Wizard spell list. Intelligence is your spellcasting ability score for it.
Nolan Cook
Hispanics.
Mason Mitchell
Literally Hispanics.
Jason Johnson
Oh hey is this a general now?
Xavier Walker
>Can we discuss setting aspects or plot ideas that portray xenophilia in a more positive light Why would I want to turn my game into racemixing propaganda?
William Cook
...Why do you ask? How would that even work?
Hudson Gray
You tell me, since you keep making this thread
Thomas Allen
I have literally never seen this thread before user
Levi Gonzalez
hispanics
Robert Green
Sometimes I think that the most simple way to defuse the magical realm bomb is to make monstergirls (and monsterboys) absurdly common. Like, at every corner of the street, really; not particulary attractive either. And of course people do fuck with other species.
Leo Gonzalez
>weirdly, in D&D, it tends to be seen as the most taboo Has D&D changed that much? I my day it had half-X galore, where X has been just about every combination of human, dragon, celestial, infernal, and planar icons conceivable, along with the more diluted variants of X-touched than you could shake a reasonable stick at.
While the lack of touched and half breeds outside certain categories was odd, I certainly wouldn't say D&D treated the idea as taboo.
>how would you actually design the "details" of a god whose portfolio is basically xenophilia and hybrid races?
They never act directly but pull lots of strings behind the scenes; all statues of the deity has its hands/equivalents perpetually rubbing together; it goes by many titles but its True Name is never to be said aloud except by its highest priests, and so is often used by its enemies as a sign of disrespect.
Hunter Reyes
It took me opening that pic several times to realize what's going on
Cooper Campbell
It's an ok fetish IRL because it's impossible. If other sentient races were real we'd probably threat it like we do bestiality. Specially because we have archeological evidence that we raped neanderthal out of existance.
Luke James
But that evidence shows we successfully bred with them. The fact we even did it to such a degree would suggest it was quite a bit more popular than bestiality
Jaxson Moore
The problem with bestiality is that animals can't consent. If elves or dwarves existed, fucking one wouldn't even raise an eyebrow.
Likewise with neanderthals, they were perfectly intelligent so there's no reason necessarily to believe that we raped them out of existence. I mean it's likely, but it's entirely genuinely possible that a lot of it -- maybe even most of it, we don't know -- was consentual. If there were still neanderthals, and they were as intelligent as humans and capable of meaningful communication with humans, they would be entirely capable of consent, so sex with neanderthals wouldn't have the same inherent wrongness as bestiality.