Traveller General: Free Traders Do It Where It's Needed Edition

>Maybe, maybe not.

You didn't note the use of the word "directly" in the sentence you quoted, did you?

3rd party content effects table top play at one remove because it very rarely provides RULES FOR PLAY. Do you understand now?

>nitpicking my nitpick

Okay.

The best way to shut down pedantic spergs is to "out sperg" them. When someone like you picks nits for no other purpose than picking nits, they need to be immediately hammered on their horseshit whether it's on an image board or, more importantly, during play at the table top.

Think of this as both refereeing advice from a old grognard and a general dope slap.

Whatever, dude, I was just pointing out a downside that you left out. I'm not interested in your weird autistic dick waving contest.

>It's change for change's sake, and a dirty cash grab what with the licensing changes,
Standard Mongoose tactics, it should be noted.

>Standard Mongoose tactics, it should be noted.

Too true sadly.

>want to run Traveller but I've spent hundreds of hours in SWRPG in the last few months so Star Wars is all I can think of plot-wise

>>Star Wars is all I can think of plot-wise

Have no fears user. There's plenty of help available in that regard.

Look in the BITS folder of the Archive. There's a book called 101 Plots. (Check out the others in the 101 series too.)

A kind user in the last threads shared this plot generator link: random-generator.com
/index.php?title=Traveller_Mission_Generator

The Patron tables in MGT1 are also useful.

Those are pretty good, but IMO not quite as good as 76 Patrons in Classic.

Sure. 76 Patrons was one of the documents that glued the setting in place back then, in ways most games never achieve.

The Location Crafter
sendspace.com/file/60x1zf

someone mentioned this in a previous thread

H2WAMTDS
sendspace.com/file/r1guwn

maybe the wrecks and ruins tables will inspire some salvage plots

Hulks and Horrors Basic Black Edition
www10.zippyshare.com/v/NhIS0TZ2/file.html

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K'kree bfto in the background.

Branching off of this, for shitposting sake, which version is best?

Cepheus Engine for the open source memes and that "filed the serial numbers off" feel

MGT2E for that sweet, sweet cash grab, and the authentic feel of 'taking money for no reason'

GURPS for them fine-ass splatbooks!

Haven't checked that one out completely but between MGT1 and MGT2 I prefer 1.

As well they should be

Cepheus Engine is basically just an MGT1 clone that allows third party folks to keep publishing, like a Traveller version of OSRIC..

OSRIC?

What's the IC?

Old School Reference Index and Compendium, it was basically AD&D with the serial numbers filed off, which allowed people to start publishing new AD&D 1e adventures whether WotC liked it or not.
It spawned the OSR movement, and is the reason OSR is a euphemism for "old D&D," a fact which actually irritates a few spergs who want it to include other old games.

>publishing new AD&D 1e adventures
Why? What is the point

meant for

Tell me about the weird things you do with the Droyne anons, I'll start. IMTU the droyne's spoken language acts as a psionic amplifier of sorts

anyone? at all?

>Tell me about the weird things you do with the Droyne anons

I've played with Droyne language too. I figured the language presented in the Classic AM is actually a pidgin. Droyne worlds and settlements are widely scattered and contact between them is said to be infrequent so I couldn't see how a true "lingua franca" could be maintained among all Droyne. Instead, whatever language the Ancient-era Droyne used changed over time with different locations and castes developing first different dialects and then entirely different tongues.

Also, due to telepathy and empathy, any Droyne language has words which act as only as place holders while the real information is shared psionically.

I have certain Droyne equipment over a certain TL having a psionic "user ID" of sorts built in keyed only to work for specific individuals, Droyne-only, or both. A laser carbine would be "keyed" to the warrior it was issued to and the facility computer will ignore all commands not issued by Droyne.

Unlikely that a SJW could write something useful.

Most of these Ponyfinder kids should probably go with Liftoff instead of Cepheus.

i didn't inquire about the author's ideology.

i just like it for all the random tables.

because (random tables)

Pay up, you cheapskate. He's donating the proceeds to the Lambda Legal Defense Fund.

Man-Hating Dykes need your money.

then they'll just have to hate men without my meager contribution

>i just like it for all the random tables.

I'll crib random tables from ANY source.

Some people didn't like the later editions -- they are very different in how they play, and if you liked old TSR-era D&D you were kinda out of luck when it came to new content because WotC wouldn't authorize any new licensed content for old editions -- no way they wanted those old things competing with the new edition they were pushing.
When the OSRIC guys figured out a legal way around this, it opened up a whole range of possibilities for these old editions, and created the community focused around them that's now known as the OSR movement.

>they are very different in how they play

Quoted for truth.

I find it incomprehensible that found it incomprehensible that people would want content for their preferred rules set.

Donating to faggots is actually an improvement. He was donating to terrorists.

Because the God-Emperor is rayciss, or something.

“The worst loneliness is not to be comfortable with yourself”

>donating to terrorists

Getting back on track...

... how do folks handle the Ine Givar in their games?

“Never put off till tomorrow what you can do the day after tomorrow.”

No, I understand 3rd edition on was a radical paradigm shift, but from what I understand, 2e was '1e, but a bit cleaner' unless my sources were lying to me

Sort of, but sort of not. Ask the OSR thread about it some time.

>Pay up, you cheapskate. He's donating the proceeds to the Lambda Legal Defense Fund.
>Man-Hating Dykes need your money.
These threads used to be so cheerful and comfy, how come it's nothing but bitterness and bitching these days?

>Sort of, but sort of not.

That's a good summary. My old fantasy group often thought that 2e was when the game definitely began sliding down the slippery slope instead of merely tiptoeing along the edge. As that screen cap explained, a LOT of what people learned to hate in 3e really had it's start in 2e.

The big shift towards over-the-top heroic play was another aspect we came to dislike.

How would I know? I'm a Heretic.

Just wait a few minutes. That canonista fuckwit will show up and tell you how to think.

“Never argue with a fool. Onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.”

i dunno.

just been having an optimal surreal day mixing rocket man pics with Twain quotes.

don't know how posting a book just for its random tables was so problematic

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>That canonista fuckwit will show up and tell you how to think.

Guess what, Skippy? I AM the canonista fuckwit and I asked the question because I'm interested in how other referee's handle the Ine Givar. It's an interesting topic and should spark some interesting ideas.

So, how do you handle the Ine Givar?

I suppose we should first determine whether they actually exist.

I've never given it much thought, but with the Consulate falling apart because of the Empress Wave, perhaps I should.

>contrarian view incoming
As horrible as Mongoose as a company may be, I have to say that the changes to 1e are, for the most part, better:
- combining electronics-related skills under a single skill gets rid of the space-luddites issue of 1e where plenty of Travellers didn't know how comms and computers on their own ship worked.
- clarification of background skills and getting rid of homeworld requirements removes the planet of hats problem
- (mostly) fluffy changes in core and CSC 2e and getting rid of the Robots supplement removes the most egregious offenses that, combined with the above 2 points, makes Traveller feel a little bit less like it's perpetually stuck in the 1970s.
- Although buying a second book for HG is shitty, you had to do the same thing with 1e; 1e HG had a variety of different rules to core 1e, so you were referencing two books anyway.

Moreover, 2e HG incorporates a lot more material than 1e HG, including components from the various Aliens and Merchant supplements, and a new chapter for non-3I stuff.

- HG2e proportional-based maths have some wonkiness, but the idea is far, far superior to 1e's restrictive hull/drive combinations.

- 2e Vehicles handbook is quite good; as much as I enjoyed making 1e vehicles, they're far too much work to even make slightly optimal. Moreover, since Vehicles are much better linked to character-scale AND starship-scale in this edition, you don't have any weird 50x modifiers as in 1e Mercenaries.

tl;dr: 2e High Guard and Vehicle Handbook are pretty good additions, especially for people that want to use the ruleset for non-3I settings.

file related. Old stuff, but it's material, I suppose, which is probably better than just arguing constantly?

>how do folks handle the Ine Givar in their games?
Rarely.

The most extensive coverage of the Ine Givar described them as even more fractured than the usual cell-structured anti-establishment terrorists. With that out available, every encounter, or *suspected* encounter, can be different.

For fun, you can treat resistance movements like the Ine Givar like they have a D&D style alignment, except that for these groups the two axes are "Focused - Scattered" and "Competent - Incompetent". Hilarity then ensues.

Ok, it looks like they did actually exist during the Fifth Frontier War. The Zhodani player has "Ine Givar" guerilla units that he can employ.

But do they still exist in 1116 or 1248?

I haven't had them show up, but I would run them as a clusterfuck of the originals, copycats, false flag ops, faked false flag ops, originals pretending to be copycats, and people from all sides milking their existence for whatever they can.
You know, like any terrorist movement.

>I suppose we should first determine whether they actually exist.

That's a good start.

In the FFW boardgame, the Zho player gets to place several Ine Givar counters in 3I territory, so I've always assumed that something called "Ine Givar" exists. What I've never assumed is what is the other stuff implied in the various TNS items mentioning Ine Givar.

IMTU, there is a somewhat pro-Zho, somewhat anti-3I organization operating in the Marches called Ine Givar. That organization isn't the only pro-Zho or anti-3I in the Marches however.

IMTU, the "Ine Givar" label gets applied indiscriminately to ANY organization - terrorist or not - which can be perceived as anti-3I much like how any leftist or reformist movement in the 3rd world during the Cold War was labeled "communist" whether it was actually communist or not.

I like all of these and they're much like how I handle them. There's the actual Ine Givar, a lot of people claiming to be "Ine Givar" for various reasons, and even more people being labeled "Ine Givar" for even more reasons.

Nice design. Thanks.

So I thought using examples might be illustrative regarding some 1e vs 2e differences. Let's say that I want to make something like an exoskeleton power armor; bulkier than battle dress, but somewhat lighter than a tank. In 1e, you may get something like this:

Note that due to how the rules worked in 1e, you could stretch the definitions of how the various drive types work by hybridizing them. As you can see, there's some easy, if tedious math involved, particularly if you want to fit nice things in AND keep the whole thing light enough that its ground pressure doesn't puncture the floor (sidenote: Traveller concrete isn't as tough as real world concrete).

In 2e, you might have something like this. Do ignore the TL difference, they were designed quite differently. But as you can see, there's quite a bit of a difference. For the most part, this reduction in math is a boon, given that the there is more focus on player-visible adjustments, rather than finagling M^3 calculations behind the scenes.

Also, this 'heavy powered armor' is a pretty good way for relatively lower TL worlds to get their hands on battle-dress-esque survivability and firepower at a low price and TL. Also it can boost up to ~200 kph and jump 20m obstacles, and is otherwise immune to non-PGMP/FGMP totting Travellers, so it can be a good deterrent against players that think they can bully low-TL frontier colonies into submission.

Thanks for both. Nice to see some "gearhead" stuff here!

I just skimmed over the rules. Looks like there were ten battalions of guerrillas. The rules seem to imply that they're all Ine Givar. If that's the case, then there were at least 5,000 of them.

Obviously, they were more than a Joe psyop or Imperial false flag, so who were they?

I know user was trying to be funny with his axes, but they're actually a useful construct. Are they an effective fighting force, or are they shoebombers?c

>I know user was trying to be funny with his axes, but they're actually a useful construct.
Trying to be funny, yes, but also attempting to convey the gist of the older article.

That's probably the best way to handle them. I never paid much attention to them. I had assumed they were just some guys who were trying to look more important than they actually were. Maybe the Joes were funding a couple of malcontents on a dozen worlds. Maybe the Imps fell for it, or maybe they were just using them as an excuse for rounding up dissidents.

But, if they were able to field 5,000 troops during the FFW, there might be a little more to it.

Seems like most posters are thinking along the same lines. Some of them are real, some are wannabes, and both governments are using them for their own reasons

There's actually quite a bit of useful information here amidst all the foolishness.

>problematic

wow just wow

it's 2017

i can't even

>There's actually quite a bit of useful information here amidst all the foolishness.

There hasn't been *that* much foolishness in the last 3 or 4 generals. Some great Archive updates, a few more dot maps, plenty of new random tables to scope out, and the collaborative effort on a doc helping new player choose a version and why.

Not too much of the usual whining by the usual suspects about "grogs" or "canonistas" we saw earlier in the year, most likely because as been around for a month or so. There was someone whose fees-fees got hurt last thread about mecha when a couple people explained why they aren't realistic despite being also told he should use them if he wants to because he doesn't need to explain or justify them to anyone but himself.

The generals have been lots of fun lately with quite a bit of sharing.

I wonder if it was the same guy who wanted a railgun?

>despite being also told he should use them if he wants to because he doesn't need to explain or justify them to anyone but himself.

Now to be fair to the other guy, Mr. "Canonista" has a bad habit of opening up with a broad, sweeping statement that if it doesn't always come right out and say it, at least strongly implies "you should never do this." He only falls back to "it's your game, I never said don't do it" when he gets called on it.

See last thread where he answered a question on how you would roleplay a Droyne with:

>One wouldn't.
>If you think you can roleplay an alien, you either delusional or lying to yourself.
>If you think you can roleplay an alien species which uses psionics to determine employment castes and trigger the physical/mental changes needed for those castes, you're really delusional or really lying to yourself.

Which is pretty fucking clear about how you should not do it. Then later he's all:

>If you want to roleplay the Droyne read the materials and give it a go. Whatever you do will be "good" enough for you.

Which is still sneeringly dismissive of the idea, but now adds the disclaimer layer of "it's your table, do what you want."

I would imagine he's unaware he does this shit, but it's pretty annoying to see him do it every time some newbie comes in here with a question about something.

nope

and i wasn't even slightly hurt because the questions about ground pressure and logical engineering were brought up, either

sorry, thought the whole little rocket man meme pointed out the obvious underlying humor of the post

and using "problematic" was just a +1 jargon roll

Railgun user here, glad to see that there is still the pre-shool level of arguing i going on as pointed out.

wikihow.com/Argue
Even with pictures.

You still can't quite understand, can you?

I don't know what has happened over the last few decades or so, but honest opinions are now somehow perceived as personal attacks.

If someone comes in asking about roleplaying the Droyne or some other alien, for example, they're going to get my honest opinion of the idea: You can't do it and if you think can roleplay an alien you're deluded and/or lying to yourself. They're going to get that honest opinion because any honest question deserves an honest answer.

They're also going to be reminded that my opinion need not mean anything to them because that's being honest too.

When you ask for an opinion do you want an honest answer? Or do you want some mealy mouthed head pats? Remember, we've a character limit here, platitudes and sugar coating take up precious space.

I actually liked that darpas research was pointed out, led me to Cassie.
youtube.com/watch?v=Is4JZqhAy-M

And BigDog
youtube.com/watch?v=xqMVg5ixhd0

Now you're just pretending like there's no middle ground between your "honest opinion" and some sort of hypothetical "mealy-mouthed headpats."

How about framing your opinion as an opinion, instead of barging in, presenting your opinion as if it were a fact, and lacing it with personal judgments like "you're lying to yourself" and "you're delusional?" Lots of people somehow manage to do that every single day, and it doesn't take them two thousand plus characters per post to do so, either.

You could just as easily have said something like:

>I don't think you can. The Droyne are just too alien. We're talking about a species that uses psionics to determine employment castes and trigger the physical/mental changes needed for those castes.
>But if you want to try, read the materials and give it a go. It'll be far from perfect, but it might be good enough for your table.

Same opinion, only framed in a regular, conversational tone, and roughly the same number of characters, too.

>Now you're just pretending

Quit pretending that sugar coating is necessary here. It's Veeky Forums for fuck's sake.

Different user here. Have you ever heard that saying that just because you can, doesen't mean you should?

Why can't this place be civilized? Veeky Forums is already one of the tamer places Traveller general being one of the tamest examples. Please don't try to change that just because you don't care.

>Why do people keep taking my posts so personal?
>All I did was state my opinion that you're delusional!

I'm surprised to see someone get to be your age and still be so clueless.
Quit hiding behind cheap excuses like "it's just my opinion" or "it's Veeky Forums." Neither expressing your opinion, nor being on Veeky Forums makes it necessary to be a dick for no reason. The rest of the thread manages to post without doing so all the time.

>There hasn't been *that* much foolishness in the last 3 or 4 generals.
And yet you had to sling shit and restart it all. Thanks user. I had almost forgotten where I was for a moment.

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So, setting aside the tale of Fedora and Friends, does anybody know a good site for deck plans? It seems like there ought to be one.

Mongoose's practice of drowning us in (frequently average or worse) deckplans has taken the wind out of many amateur deckplan efforts, and the web has churned some of the older efforts under. Check the galleries at CotI and the issue archives at Freelance Traveller.

Actually there could be a LOT more than 5000 of them. In FFW the actual strength of the guerrilla counter ultimately depends on the population of the world it is placed on. The combat value of a counter is equal to 10% of the number of defence battalions that start on the world it is placed on.
So, as the example says on page 17, a guerrilla counter placed on Efate would have a strength of 100 battalions!

So like, 50,000 Ine Givar guerrillas might show up? That's pretty impressive for a guerrilla group. Though I guess maybe not so impressive on a high population planet.

Aye, there are millions if not billions on some high population planets, 50,000 is a comparative drop in the bucket

So what? Run your Star-Wars plots. I can see two ways of doing it off the top of my head.

First is to set it in Zhodani space and you already have the Jedi council running the show. What is known as Psionics to the Iperium is the Force to the Zhodani. You even have a neighboring empire who want to see all force users wiped out, and are known to use force blocking abilities and technology.

Or if you want to keep it in the Imperium you replace all refrences to the Force with Psionics. The Jedi are a secret Psionic Society working directly for the Imperium and Sith become Zhodani.

It's your world, if you (and your group obviously) want to merge starwars into traveler then you play your game the way you want to play it, and fuck anyone who tries and tell you otherwise.

Use the Zann Consortium, storytime for the general if you want

They have a unified language because they are culturaly habitual preservationists. It is only a tiny proportion of their population (sports) who have any degree of inventiveness or drive to innovate.
Other than the sports they adapt only as required, changing language is not required so does not happen.

You also have to remember that many of them have also only recently (last 5 thousand years or so) regained the ability to cast. This was due to interventions from surviving ancients, who, supprise supprise, taught them pure Dryonne to go with their casting ritulas.

user, this is Veeky Forums. It's always storytime here, and any man who would say otherwise is not my nigga.

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