/HHG/ Horus Heresy General

He did nothing wrong.

In all seriousness, why isn't Konrad Curze more loved? I can understand if you don't agree with his methods, but his a much deeper primarch than many other much more famous primarchs.
What does Dorn, Alpharius or Sanguinius have have that he doesn't?

Not dying to a mortal assassin to prove a point to someone who wasn't there to witness it.

He did plenty of things wrong. Half the appeal of 'Sevatar' is the Batman/Nightwing and/or RedHood dynamic they have going w/ Sevatar calling him out on his shit.

Currently reading the HH series, just got to flight of the Eistenstein. Anyone else feel it was really rushed and hamfisted the way they made Grulgor hate Garro instantly, and within 3 or 4 chapters agree to kill him based on Typhon hinting at something happening?

I mean shit, it took all of the culmination of three books of tension to set the Mournival against each other, which felt great and very realistic based on differing motivations

Yeah, I wasn't a big fan of that book. There are some great ones up ahead, but also some stinkers and some, like Flight of the Eisenstein, that have their moments among a sea of okayness.

Sevatar is actually a more interesting character than Curze for me. While a complete psychopath, Sevatar is fairly level-headed as well as a very competent field commander. He's very much analogous to Kharn. The competent right hand man that actually kinda runs things because boss man is losing it.

I don't know if it's because I'm a closet goth or if it's ADB's writing but the Night Lords are probably one of the more fascinating legions.

An interesting, sympathetic, human personality that doesn't reek of;

>WHILE YOU ENGAGED IN SOCIAL ACTIVITIES, I STUDIED THE BLADE!
>WHILE YOU PURSUED FEMALES, I STUDIED JUSTICE!
>WHILE YOU PURSUED A HEALTHY LIFESTYLE AND RESPONSIBILITIES I SCREAMED INCOHERENTLY AT DEAD BODIES I SKINNED ABOUT LOTION!

Scratchbuild one? Convert from a model tank or toy tank?

I hope this is what Dark Mechanicum is like

miniaturescenery.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2&products_id=129

I would hope the Dark Mechanicum are a little more creative than
>bro, lets build a giant robotic octopus

>Reductor Medusa

I usually think stuff like that is stupid but I'm digging the mechanism for those tentacles. Very ingenious and well thought out. Most two-bit hacks would've just gone with the comic book smooth mechanical segmented tentacles.

T minus 8th edition ?

If T=1, then yes.

That whole logic was pretty fucking dumb anyway
>Ha the emperor uses assassins, that's just as bad as flaying thousands of people alive

I didn't even finished it because the book seemed completely garbage.

The Emperor sanctioned flayings though.
The 8th Legion was a cruel legion since before meeting their primarch.

>countless warcrimes and atrocities
>nothing

Wow still nothing new on FW site.

>Warcrime
>In 40k
If it was a thing, the Emperor would be the greatest war criminal of history

The notion of war crime is quite modern. Throughout most of human history, genocide was considered a valid, if inefficient, military strategy for a variety of reasons.

Only our (quite modern as in the last 400 years) have aspects of war been criminalized, usually with recourse by the victor only.

It always boils down to who wins.

But it wasn't the emperor flaying people that vindicated him in his eyes it was his assassination. If Curze was captured and executed in a horrible way his quote might make sense but just being assassinated it doesn't really make much sense.

3 Years

This. At the same time I still added it to my favourites for later consideration for conversion, the tentacles look interesting and could be need in creating an abeyant or just a fuckhuge magos.

The emperor allowed Curze to punish the wicked and corrupt, then the Emperor punished Curze for doing what was his job.
That was the vindication.

I agree that his death didn't mattered much though. He was depressed as fuck and he was more or less insane at time, in his head his death would have meaning

Night Haunter: “There was no other way.”

Sevatar: “No? What other ways did you try?”

Night Haunter: “Sevatar…”

Sevatar: “Answer me, father. What politics of peace did you teach? What scientific and social illumination did you bring to this society? In your quest for a human utopia, what other ways did you try beyond eating the flesh of stray dogs and skinning people alive?”

Night Haunter: “It. Was. The. Only. Way.”

Sevatar: “The only way to do what? The only way to bring a population to heel? How then did the other primarchs manage it? How has world upon world managed it, without resorting to butchering children and broadcasting their screams across the planetary vox-net?”

Night Haunter: “Their world were never as… as serene as mine was.”

Sevatar: “And the serenity of yours died the second your back was turned. So tell me again how you succeeded. Tell me again how this all worked perfectly.”

Night Haunter: “You overstep your bounds, First Captain.”

Sevatar: “How can you lie to me like this? How can you lie to yourself? I stand here, inside your mind, witnessing a theatre of your own memories. Your way is the Eighth Legion way, now. But it has never been the only way. Just the easiest way.”

>The irony of Kurze not being honest about himself.

Oh yes so deep I too am intelligent nihilistic and have a wicked sense of humor
No the Emperor punished Curze for being a treasonous little shit

Holy shit why is Sevatar so fucking based?

All first captain equivalent characters are better than their Primarchs. Thats just a fact.

>the Emperor punished Curze for doing what was his job
No, he punished him for rebelling.

>Eidolon
>Better than Fulgrim

>Abbadon
>Better than Horus

Maybe try liking primarchs that aren't shit.

Except Raldoron, who has no personality.

Yeah actually I hate Abaddon. Still Lokens a bro.

If he was a nihilist he wouldn't have tried to teach a lesson to the Emperor with his death

I mean before the Heresy. When he was censored and become almost a renegate

Wasn't Raldoron angry and bellicose? I always got the idea that Raldoron and Azkaellon were sort of like opposites of the Blood Angels' nature, Raldoron was the aggressive berserker half and Azkaellon represented the noble and civilized part.

Either way its not like Sanguinius has any real personality.

New rulebook coming next month, confirmed on warhammer's stream on twitch

>the rear of the primaris tank woooo
>Red Scorpions Leviathan and commanders
>30k Wolf terminators "next few months"
>t shirts
>30K "7.1" rulebook next month 200 pages lots about it next week looks pretty
>giant bolter haha us forge worlds huh
We're halfway in now.

Is it a crime if you're not convicted of anything?

Kharn and Sevatar? Absolutely.

The rest? Ehhhh.

This. Curze overstepped his bounds. He conquered through massacre only. If all of the world's his armies encountered refused to fall into the imperial fold, then maybe his means might have been justified, but just as many worlds became part of the imperium through diplomacy, trade agreements, or their own will (you don't know if you don't ask). How often do you think the night lords entered into diplomacy, or even asked if a new world wanted in? Probably none.

Hence the censure.

Raldoron and Corswain have zero personality compared to their primarchs. But you are right about Kharn, Ahriman, Sevatar, and Siggy

Just curious if anyone knows. Isn't Corswain pronounced "Corsen"?

Because most BL authors made him a full psycho sadistic mass-murderer from the beginning instead of a hardcore vigilante with noble intentions slowly losing his sanity and moral compass.

Earlier depictions of Curze (Lord of the Night, The Dark King) were quite balanced and ambiguous. He had a philosophy, a (twisted) sense of justice and duty and everything needed for a cool "potentially good guy fucked up by fate" story.

But now he just sounds like a hypocritical retard flawed from birth and suffering some serious inferiority complex. Seriously, Vulkan Lives was the worst depiction of pre-Heresy Curze I could have imagine, it ruined everything great about Curze.
>Considers himself as a necessary evil --> Enjoys being "useful evil". Is a total sadistic asshole but assumes nobody will mess with him as long as he gets the job done.
>Thinks his brothers are pussies who can't overcome their fucking morality in order to achieve greater things --> Knows he is shitty and wants everybody to be as shitty as him.

TL;DR : Curze was and should have remained a moraly ambiguous character broken by despair and fate instead of an obviously evil bastard pretending he once was a good guy while doing nothing to prove his point.

Dude, the Emperor have always used the 8th Legion's cruelty agains't his enemies. See the Saragorn Enclave of Terra
If anything, it's the Emperor's fault. He created legion/primarch of murderous psychos and then punished them for doing what they were made to do

>there are people in the studio who have painted Adeptus Titanicus models, Community guy saw a pic and thought they were full size--"next year"
>updates for the FW indexes eventually
>at least two primarch models in 2018
>Fires of Cyraxus 2018
>AOS stuff 2018
>no plans for Renegades and Heretics currently
>"a lots happens next year" *pained face*
>more pained faces
>house vyronii decals next year
>chaos war mammoth possibly next year
LOSING WILL TO LIVE

I mean, It's not necessarily Corswain's fault he has no personality. He's only showed up... twice? in the HH novels, and one of those was a short story.

Why Corswain and not Luther?

He banters well.

>at least two primarch models in 2018
Sanguinius and Khan? Or Dorn?

Just bring back the OOP transfer sheets, please!

>Curze was and should have remained a moraly ambiguous character broken by despair and fate instead of an obviously evil bastard pretending he once was a good guy while doing nothing to prove his point.
Pretty much everything from the HH is absolutely shit. Instead of demigod beings that most players believed the primarchs were, the writers decided to make them like a bunch of retarded manchildren.
Even Horus that was supposed to be the greatest of all primarchs is depicted as a low IQ guy with daddy issues that will trust in the guy that constantly lies to him.

>Wasn't Raldoron angry and bellicose?
>Raldoron was the aggressive berserker half and Azkaellon represented the noble and civilized part.
What Blood Angel books are you reading? Raldoron is calm as fuck and really bland and unsure of things, he is first captain for understanding the basic troops so well and having a great morale effect, he fights with a boltgun and a power sword for god's sake. Azkaellon is a bit of a hot head and a dick but there's nothing outstanding about him.

Are you thinking of Amit, the flesh tearer? He is an angry berzerker.

Alpharius and Dorn.

Disappointment/10

Damn. Alpharius is the worse primarch ever.
Nobody cares about this retard

Because Luther isn't a first captain equivalent. He may have been at one point but he's been relegated pretty hard.

Yeah, Raldoran's rubbish. Amit & Azkaellon are the interesting pair. I think of them as the honorary first captains, like Kharn is for the World Eaters.

...

Sounds like a Welsh name to me (Arthurian knights and all this stuff), so I would pronounce the "w".

Alpharius and Omegon. That way they can release two kits with the exact same model.

I care...

He was censured for being unstable, he wasnt censured for eating children and skinning people but because he was too unstable for imperial command and his fellow primarchs.

How'd one equip Salamanders Destroyers?

Go read Fear to Tread. Not a great book but the bits with Sang and Horus give him a pretty stong characterization.

With friendship, love and flamers.

Seeing as you cant legally take them, I wouldn't equip them with anything

Disdain of the Dark Age. Sallies can't use destroyers...

Bolt pistol, chainsword and use them as Assault Marines?

Not in the primary detachment.

Fine. Inferno pistols and melta bombs? The +1 strength hand flamers, and inferno pistol options sound cool, but it's not worth giving up rad missiles for it.

Maybe 1 rad missile and 1 hand flamer? Use rad phage with what is now effectively a flamer to go after high wound targets?

Assault marines do the sallie pistol upgrades better imo, and cheaper.

It's basically a variant of Rousseau's "men are born good but society corrupted them" where "the society" can be replaced by "what the Emperor wants you to do".

Most primarchs are described as fighting for some greater cause during their younth, Curze filled this need the only way Nostramo taught him : being the apex predator and killing the bad guys. The thing is, the primarchs personal experiences and personalities didn't necessarily fit daddy's plans exactly.

And that's okay. That's litteraly what Chaos is supposed to be : the opposite of order. Primarchs were "corrupted" not because of some warp-induced mind cancer, but because the Emperor could not complete their education and make them reliable, previsible tools. Instead they become god-like figures among humans, reshaping the very fate of their homeworld, and were told by Emp to be the pinnacle of Mankind. Seriously, who can pretend to safely control guys like them ? Everything was set up for a fucking Greek tragedy of galactic proportions, too bad BL turned the hubris into "MUH DADDY IS BAD !" and "MUH RANDOM ELDRITCH ARTEFACT/COUNSELLOR TOLD ME TO DO THINGS"

The same goes for Curze. Asking a half-psychotic vigilante struggling with his own morality to become a weapon of conquest -
AFTER GIVING HIM CONGRATS for his job on Nostramo (!!!) - was fucking stupid to begin with. It wasn't "punishing the bad guys" anymore, just "killing those fuckers I don't even know so daddy can have his Imperium. Well, it probably won't prevent him from killing me, but who knows...".

No surprise the guy went totally batshit insane after losing his focus.

Eh, rad missiles are pretty expensive and with suspensor webbing have an underwhelming range. You might be better off using them as assault squads with rad grenades using inferno pistols and flamers to soften them up before the attack.

Honestly World Eaters can pull off destroyer assault squads fairly well, since when combined with chainaxes they are wounding marines on a 2+. Overall though destroyers are just a crap unit, they anything they can do some other unit can do better for cheaper while being more survivable and their only real use is fluff or modeling, in which case the issue becomes "how cheap can I make these while still scratching my fluff or modeling itch?"

>Primarchs were "corrupted" not because of some warp-induced mind cancer
Fulgrim and Horus were.

Black Library HH series was a mistake.

This. It's too Schizophrenic. I'd prefer it to the be the life's work of a single author than a decade and a bits worth of many many authors.

My mistake user, I was actually thinking about what happened in the Warp during the scattering of the primarchs.

twin Primarchs in battle pose pls, take my money FW

...

>life's work of a single author
The Black Books were...

>paint topknot black
>paint hair ginger

I loved the fluff in those books. Bligh could make something feel like a battle rather than two blobs of dudes in armor punching each other.

Hopefully he was able to get most of the fluff done for book 8 before he passed away.

What's French's track record on Bangels and Dangels?

No clue. He's a wallfag from what I hear. Is it confirmed he's the new fluff writer?

>crest is attached to the armor
>beard is attached to chin

>Sev
yes
>Kharn
yes
>Sigismund
yes

Don't really see it with the rest of them

This fur looks hideous. Hope it is because of the picture quality.

I'd still get it, idgaf