Is it better to kill off one of your players when they do something monumentally stupid or headstrong which would...

only if you snitch you lil bitch

I don't generally make a habit of killing my players off, or disfiguring them for that matter. The chairs are hard enough to fill as it is.

Generally in my games the first time you would die you have the option of surviving maimed instead if you'd like. An impediment, but a relatively minor one. The second time it's dying or retiring maimed in such a way where they can't be expected to ever adventure again.
And in all cases there's open discussion about just what happens to them. If you choose death you've got license to go out with at least a bit of a bang.

Of course, if it's something monumentally stupid or something unarguably catastrophic you'll probably just be dead. Haven't had a situation like that yet, but I also haven't ran a game for assholes since high school and that was before I started doing this particular wrinkle.

Depends on the situation. If the player has a death wish and is actively making terrible decisions then yes of course the King's royal guard are going to pile onto him and kill him for murdering the Princess. At that point the only thing that can save him are the dice and his own wits.

Now if he did something heroically stupid that ended up saving the entire party from a massive Dragon by jumping off of a tower and using his own spiky armored body as an improvised projectile to give the Dragon a concussion then he should be rewarded with fudged numbers so he just barely lives.

if your players are assholes, like begets like.

if not, i try to follow my own general rule. thematics > dice. in cases of death, whatever feels like the most thematic option should usually happen. in cases where either killing or maiming has little difference thematically, let the dice decide. if you use maiming as a punishment for poor decisions, make sure you dont let anyone forget that they're maimed. make the gaping hole that was once an eye ache now and then. make the player that lost 3 fingers drop his spoon during breakfast.

depends on context

sometimes vengeance is swift and brutal
other times humiliation is enough

Players: "Finally, we've reached the dragons inner lair!"
GM: "Yeah, you have now witnessed the might of the mighty wyrm. It seems to be sleeping, by the occasional puffs of smoke emanating from its nose in time with a bass rumble that shakes the floor. Your mission for the king is complete. If you'll all give sneak checks, at a bonus since it's sleeping so heavily, you can exit out-"
Player:. "Aw fuck no. I haven't made it to third level by being a pussy. Come on guys, let's get up close.
Party follows.
Player: "K, am I near the dragon?"
GM:. ...sure. why?
Player: "I'm poking it in the snout with my sword, and when it wakes up I'm telling it to leave the kingdom before it gets hurt."
GM:"..."
Player: "Oh yes. And to leave the treasure when it goes. "

5 minutes later

Players: "Why are you such a killer GM? You aren't fair. That dragon was way past our CR range. You suck as a GM."

>permanent disfigurement/penalty instead?
I'll take character death instead, thank you very much.

Have you set the tone properly?
Do they understand the situation?
What are they trying to do, be a faggot or just enjoy the world you've set forth?

If anyone is acting shitty it's probably the GM's fault, so I'd say you should work on yourself

The DM is kind of a dick in that situation for blindsiding a squishy member of the party, with something like that that could kill him in two hits, AFTER a combat encounter.

It doesn't feel like it was important to the narrative for a fucking Owlbear to wander into and back out of the game just to Leo DiCaprio your gnome.

Perfect example of the GM being a retard.
>new players who are trying to have fun
>they don't understand the obvious shit that their characters in the game world would know
>"Hmmm should I inform them about the situation so they can make an informed choice?"
>"Nah, I'll just kill them and act like they should've known how magic creatures in a fantasy world operate then go on Veeky Forums to act smug"

Cool story bro. What was the party going to do if they fucked up their stealth on the way out?

kill the players, save the characters, thats always been the rule m8.

Yeah, because nobody knows what a fucking dragon is.

If you're playing a new school "narrative" game, don't kill the NO MATTER WHAT they do.
if you're playing an old school game, kill them the moment they fuck up.

It was probably a random roll.

>all dragons act 100% identical
You're an even shittier GM than I guessed

...

Name one setting where poking a dragon with a sword and telling it to give you it's treasure and fuck off wouldn't end with a fight. It'd be understandable if the party wanted to steal some treasure and woke the bastard up, but they went up and stuck a sword in his nose.

First of all, if they don't speak draconic the GM fucked up by allowing them to attempt it. Secondly, a smart GM would ask for a perception check, then use it to inform them about the reasons why it's an impossibility of success. Thirdly, Intimidate is a proper game mechanic, and there is a roll that needs to happen. Fourthly, the dragon may be so bemused at the attempt that it simply laughs and does something to display his power, love burst his wings and blow then out of the cave, hurting but not killing them

...you know, NOT being a retard who aches for a chance to be "old school hardcore new game++ dark souls le epic XD I can't wait to tell Veeky Forums I ruined new player's fun"

*like burst

>First of all, if they don't speak draconic the GM fucked up by allowing them to attempt it.
Dragons speak Common.
> Secondly, a smart GM would ask for a perception check, then use it to inform them about the reasons why it's an impossibility of success.
Perception has absolutely nothing to do with figuring out what your chances of success are.
>Thirdly, Intimidate is a proper game mechanic, and there is a roll that needs to happen.
When the likelihood of something occurring are so little as to be basically zero, no roll should be asked for.
> Fourthly, the dragon may be so bemused at the attempt that it simply laughs and does something to display his power, love burst his wings and blow then out of the cave, hurting but not killing them
Yeah, because that's what dragons are known for doing.

No. You're just a contrarian retard. Poking a dragon in the nose with a sword is an act of aggression whether you speak the language or not. The dragon was woken up by some strutting asshole with a weapon in its own lair, why the fuck would it pursue non-violence?

You honestly sound like the kind of retard who does this shit then complains when your dumb ass gets slapped down for it. Fuck off.

Only the last point is not completely retarded.

Not that user but a non-retarded player wouldn't be stupid enough to think that would be an even vaguely good idea.

If the DM told them it would be impossible they'd chimp out about him railroading them, as would you most likely.

I suppose you subscribe to the "the GM is basically a pleasure device for the players and exists for no other reason than to jerk them off and tell them how amazing they are" school of GMing. I guess the GM should've just automatically let them succeed without a roll because only a monster of a GM would dare hesitate to give the players exactly what they want.

>b-b-but muh adolescent power trip...!!
I know you're autistic, but some day when you're an adult free from your faggot mentality, with correct priorities, you may realize that you can teach your new players lessons and make the world interesting at the same time. That's what good GM do.

It was clear from the story that the shitty failed DM gave that the players literally did not even understand that dragons are scary, correct? So there is a 100% guarantee he is a shit GM if he cannot successfully communicate this to his players.

They didn't understand the situation and therefore WOULD NOT have done it if they had been informed... which their characters would have been. So you just punished the players instead of doing your job.

Funny for you to talk about adolescent power trips when that's exactly how I would define the player's action in this circumstance.

You're just a fucking moron, dude. Seriously, reevaluate yourself. Are you STILL arguing against the DM in this situation because you truly believe you're right? Or are you just desperate to not be wrong?

Because, me? I'm done with this discussion. I've made my points and said my piece. If you want to take me refusing to humor you any further as you "winning" the argument, you can go ahead, but honestly I just can't waste anymore of my time on your bullshit whining.

I'm not responsible for teaching people things they should have learned from childrens' books. Even if I am, character death is one hell of a way to learn. Pain retains.

I'm a GM. I'm not a babysitter. My job is to tell a story, not to coddle grown-ass men into learning shit they should already know.

>I'm going to play Imagination with toddlers
>They try to do something interesting in order to have fun, even though it's not realistic
>"Your face is half smashed in by the Orc hammer, after which he ties you up and rapes you for an hour. When he finally ejaculates, it's inside your skull wound. Your body goes into shock and you die painfully on the floor"
>Toddlers are confused and angry and tell him he's a shitty person
>"Heh heh heh can't wait to tell the boys on Veeky Forums about how stupid my players were today"

(You)

Whatever the logical consequences are.

There's a lot of things to consider here. Your players don't know everything you do, and solutions that may seem simple may not occur to them at all. Especially if you eg capture them or imprison them - for all the players know they'll get executed in a minute so they need to take the first opportunity they get to escape.
Tell them what's going to happen. The prison guard says they'll be slaughtered in a week in front of all the princes. But an hour later a cleaner walks in and humms a song of freedom used by the rogue's guild, or their food is aligned in a way that the diviner can interpret.

Permanent penalties are horrible. Each time you gain one, your character will suck more and more, and those people whose characters either avoid injuries or actually die are in a better position than you.

Death can be okay, especially if there's weird ways to revive them. They died fighting the necromancer, but his archenemy, a fey, has been observing them and after the battle she revives one of the players - with some side effects or with a task she gives them.

I'm sure the players were okay with such a loss.
Hopefully there were some good stories to tell.

Watch out, asking a Veeky Forums GM to do anything except lazily kill off a character because he has no ideas means you're entitled

Jesus you are just the worst.

Actually what he described would be more like
>okay you're in the middle of this orc warcamp, you see twelve tents all full of sleeping orcs. There's over 100 orcs in here. You got the gem of tyrants, and your goal here is complete. When you get the gem back to the king, the orcs will be a threat no longer. What do you do?
"Uh lol, they have trumpets right? I grab a trumpet to wake them all up and tell them to fuck right off to the badlands mate."
>The orcs all emerge from their tents with weapons in hand, charging towards you.
"What? I repeat myself. Those cunts should go back to the badlands."
>The orcs swarm you and begin cutting you down.
"Fuck, time to fight back."
>After the struggle you are all slaughtered, but you take down a dozen orcs.
"What the hell DM, why did you put us against 100 orcs?"

>> Fourthly, the dragon may be so bemused at the attempt that it simply laughs and does something to display his power, love burst his wings and blow then out of the cave, hurting but not killing them
>Yeah, because that's what dragons are known for doing.
To be fair, that's EXACTLY what several types of metallic dragons would do.

Come on, killing people is not lazy. It actually requires a lot of effort. I need to consider if they die by the dragon's fire, or get swallowed whole. Hmm. I like vore, so let's use the second option. I'll describe them slowly getting disolved too. Maybe she poops them out after a week. Eventually they'll fertilize the dirt and flowers will bloom. What a lovely story.

If I feel my GM is coddling me I immediately lose all interest in the game.

Yeah this is a good point, too. I once played in a game where, whenever we were close to going down, the DM would introduce a new npc to save us and give us a new job.

Could be justified though. If the party was attacking the owlbear then it makes sense that the animal would leave the incapacitated enemy alone and focus on the ones that were full strength, they are more dangerous.

This.
I have TPKed off random encounters. Don't be afaid to kill pcs its part of the game and many people enjoy challange. If i play in a game where i know the dm wont kill anyone i will abuse the shit out of it. Now don't tpk every game but death is needed here and there.

I'm a player, and if the GM warned me about every possible consequence whenever I did something then that would be a really shit game. Then my character would effectively be prescient.

Are you still this assblasted? I'm starting to think that you're, if not THE player who died in this situation, A player who died in a situation like this.

Nothing else makes sense for you to be so stubbornly fucking stubbornly driven toward being an obnoxious little cunt about this very specific incidence.

It is a dragon, dragons fuck shit up, you would have to be a brain dead retard to even think about fucking up a dragon

It depends:
Was the player being random and epic? Yes, kill them.
Were they just trying to be bold for fun's sake? Deal lots of damage and maybe cause disfigurement, but let them survive
If the player doesn't get the message that risk-taking like that isn't wise, then kill them next time or if you think that's too much, warn them directly after the session that they totally will die if they keep doing that.

But he isn't playing with toddlers, he is playing with grown ass men. That's the point. They should not act like toddlers.

Run, you dingus. Have you never ran from a dragon before?

Yeah, I had a GM that would have monsters 'back off' for some reason if a TPK looked likely, and they never ever finished off a downed player (which some enemies SHOULD do, like zombies, they aren't smart enough to prioritize targets).

When it dawned on me what he was doing I felt that the game lost all meaning. Why am I even rolling these dice? Every fight just became a mechanical 'target closest enemy->roll->roll->roll->target next etc' because there was no real danger.

>I'm not responsible for teaching people things they should have learned from childrens' books.
No, but you are responsible for communicating what kind of story are you going to run.

>character death is one hell of a way to learn.
Maybe, but the lesson might just as well be:
Don't care about character you play, because he's gonna die anyway
DnD is stupid

>My job is to tell a story
Your jobs is not ONLY that and it is not only YOUR job. Players have input as well.
If not, why include them?

Also, story about being eaten by dragon is probably not a good one.

>not to coddle grown-ass men into learning shit they should already know.
Sorry, my parents never told me how to behave in presence of dragons. Might have something to do with them not living in my country.

Also, if you're telling story without them realizing what kind of story it is (such is, one where dragons are really dangerous), you are shit storyteller.

Communication is key, user, but it needs two people willing to cooperate.

Why the fuck did you reply? Was he not blatant enough?

>Sorry, my parents never told me how to behave in presence of dragons.
Sounds like you had shitty parents, user.

Are you really going to keep arguing for this? You're a guy arguing that shit tastes good and the rest of the room is just looking at you funny, ta this point.

Is there any story ever where dragons are not really dangerous? Do we need to establish in the story that fire is hot, that you drown in water, that zombies aren't philosophers, etc?

Dragons in stories are usually defeated by heroes. Players usually expect to play heroes.

Why are you all still taking this bait

Are these stories usually two sentences long, as in 'Dragon showed up, random schlub took up a sword and killed the pussy ass bitch', or do the heroes need to go on an epic joutney to kill it?

Just know that you are frankly stupid.

Found relevant link:

"...This Good-story bias could be quite powerful. When was the last time you saw a movie about humankind suddenly going extinct ...? While this scenario may be much more probable than a scenario in which human heroes successfully repel an invasion of monsters or robot warriors, it wouldn’t be much fun to watch. So we don’t see many stories of that kind. If we are not careful, we can be mislead into believing that the boring scenario is too farfetched to be worth taking seriously..."
nickbostrom.com/existential/risks.html

>one of your players

That aside, I usually play it out dice in the open. Stupid getting lucky sometimes is fine as long as you don't pull punches.

Agreed unless the players are still learning the ropes and don't understand basic threat assessment. You can softball things for new players that simultaneously warn them and teach them.

Good thing nobody is suggesting that then.

OMG dude so epic you killed off some new players trying to have fun and learn how to play D&D lelelelel epic high five!!!1

You realize you're the only retard in the story, right? That's why you came to Veeky Forums to skew the story in a way that covered up your ineptitude as a DM.

Luckily we are talking about roleplaying, not watching a movie or reading a book.

Some of my fondest role-playing memories are times when a session ended in a TPK.

I have severe difficulties picturing the person who would think that a dragon was not a very serious threat, if even possible to defeat. Literally HOW can you think that? Are these people fresh-off-the-boat Chinese farmers who does not know anything about western culture or fantasy in general?

>fresh-off-the-boat Chinese farmers
Nah, even those guys know about dragons.

Other media form the way we think to a great extent. Also, TTRPG and other media have differences, but also similarities.

Not saying TPK can't be enjoyable.

I understand that autism is a serious condition, but please try to imagine a normal human trying to have fun

Oh I agree, it sounds like the story is complete bullshit in fact. Who could possibly provoke a dragon and expect to get away with it? The only logical answers: a) toddlers, b) total neophyte outsiders just trying out RPG's for the first time, c) mentally handicapped people who are trying to enjoy their afternoon. There are no other possibilities, except that the whole story is a lie (which is probably the reality).

Therefore, what is a GM to do with such people he has voluntarily agreed to play a game with? As a GM myself, I would have the dragon laugh at them and blow them out of the cave, humiliate them a little and give them a future enemy to slay when they get powerful enough. You know, because I'm not an autistic lazy piece of shit like the guy who told the story.

>Fighter: I'm going to sneak into the goblin cave through the secret passage.
>Then I'm going to run all the way back to the entrance while alerting all the goblins.
>Me: OK, you're in. This is a horrible idea, are you sure???
>Fighter: Yes
>Goblins proceed to rush to the entrance and swarm the players
>Bard instakilled, Paladin is down, Fighter and Other-Fighter run away
>Goblins finish off the Paladin

I decided to retcon the dead PCs back to life since they're newbies and it was the Fighter's fault. They were captured and managed to escape.

Then, in town, the Fighter tried to set part of the inn on fire, to hinder some thugs they'd picked a fight with. I decided against burning down the whole place.

Next time the Fighter fucks up I am MURDERING his character in the most violent way possible. He's already played before, he has no excuse.

Some people are just in a mood to fight. He's just throwing shit around at 6 in the morning.

I think the saddest part of it is that this is how he builds character.

You should ALWAYS kill your PC's as a DM. The first line of any campaign should be "A wizard casts Power Word: Double Kill at 12th level, anyone with a finite amount of HP dies."

>trying to have fun and learn how to play D&D
They were third level. By this point they knew how to play D&D.