Do you guys allow freedom in your games?

Sure. One of my best games got derailed by a player starting a religion to worship the guy who taught him to be a pyrokineticist as if he were a god of fire, with the PC as the high priest of said religion, and he even started a 'city' out in the wilderness.

What this essentially turned into was the guy using his psychic powers to perform 'miracles', and a lot of recruitment. The most noteworthy time of which involved, after being locked up in prison during a failed infiltration of a fort, a very long conversation with the guard and a bunch of rolls that basically broke down into

"You must really like guarding prisoners, huh?"
"Oh, not really? This isn't what you want to be doing with your life? That's interesting. What would you rather be doing?"
"Weaving? That sounds swell. And your dad was a weaver? Why didn't you go into the family business?"
"That's sad to hear. Times are tough. Listen, just between you and me, I know a town where you could make a KILLING as a weaver..."

It took two days, but that same guard ended up being instrumental to their breakout. They even realized that they got separated during the chaos and WENT BACK for him to make sure he made it to the pyro's cult city and got his shop like was promised.

Well yes, because you're asking from a position of assuming that we are railroading at all. The implication is that you already think poorly of us and that doesn't bode well for the conversation.

Instead, ask something along the lines of "how flexible are your plots?" or "how much agency do player characters have in your games?". These allow for a wide range of answers but state no assumptions about those you're talking to.

Considering that’s practically a class feature in AD&D, yeah I allow it.

If you can focus on the 'main quest' AND your personal quest without taking reign on the campaign, that's the best option for everyone. Some of the most interesting personal quests end up becoming the real main quest in the end.

I hope your cult works out, user.

FREEDOM

I personally judge intensely stupid as something suicidal that would most like end the campaign suddenly in a really unsatisfying way or something that doesn't make sense by the setting and genre conventions the group agreed upon before starting a campaign.

Like the cult scenario is fine. Ideally if it was introduced early on the in the campaign and the party was down I'd work with that. It's a solid enough setup for a campaign and gives me enough hooks and potential challenges to keep going.

Intensely stupid would be like if a PC died and he wanted to play actual Goku for his next PC.

First, there's the obvious question about what kind of character idea you've got that might want to start a cult, given that the rest of the party is good or neutral and may not want to play along. But hey, maybe it's more of a Dionysian "Let's get drunk off our asses in the name of our god" cult.

Then there's the question of whether or not the campaign is going to be set primarily in one location, or likely to involve so much travelling that the PCs won't have a ton of downtime around other people.

You say that but you are playing a ROLEplaying game. Your characters are there to play a ROLE.

If their role is cult-leader then let them do that.

Write a book if you want a specific story.

So user tell me about this sinister cult your attempting to foster as your 1st level character despite your non existent political / underworld connections and possessing as you do a king's ransom of 5 silver pieces? I'm very willing to listen.

Read the post again user, I wouldn't say they couldn't, just that it might not be conducive to the story, and they'd have to make it happen instead of depending on me to drop it in their lap.

>You say that but you are playing a ROLEplaying game. Your characters are there to play a ROLE.
>Write a book if you want a specific story.
Books with their specific stories also have roles user. Theater productions have roles too, and the actors tend not to make them up on the spot.

>This campaign is set in a setting where non-humans are somewhat rarer, and non-humanoids aren't known to exist in the 'known world'.
"Can I play a thri kreen?"
>Didn't you just hear what I said?
"If I can't play whatever I want, you should just write a book instead!"

Of course your character has to fit the setting, however a cult leader basically fixes anything.

Plus players build their own roles, unless you are an even more railroady GM then I thought.

>Of course your character has to fit the setting, however a cult leader basically fixes anything.
But that's not what your previous post said at all, not even a slight implication that reasonable exclusion is acceptable. I'm not opposed to the idea of a player making a cult leader, but if it just doesn't make any sense and I say no, that doesn't mean I'm railroading.

Lol I've got this impression now of him going round putting up notices inviting townsfolk to his secret cult meeting in the witching hour at the old crypt.....Afterwards there will be light refreshments and other appetizers served ;-)

If you want a cult so bad why don't you write a book about it

Yes. If you fluff it and go about it in a way that makes sense with your character or the setting's political situation I'll love you, if not I'll tolerate you.

youtube.com/watch?v=YBXzkDGpIho

Just make a movie instead, waaaaay easier.

So just on the off chance this ne'er-do well who also happens to be in prison isn't bullshitting simply to wheedle his way out, the guardsman not only throws away his livelihood BUT ALSO instigates a prison break for the slightest chance of weaving baskets in Brigadoon? Yup makes perfect sense.

As long as it fits the tone of the game.
Hell, I just started a cult in my Exalt game last week.

No, because your charisma and wisdom stat is shit and is incapable of attracting any followers

Will you be willing to compromise to make that character goal mesh with the overarching narrative, or are you going to be a tool and demand that your character ignore everything to pursue his own goals?

Will you tailor your character to fit in with the rest of the party and maintain a co-operative dynamic for character interaction, or are you going to make a lone wolf character who doesn't play well with others?

Are you going to create a backstory that properly justifies and explains this character goal in an interesting narrative fashion that allows for some DM intrigue and further expansion, or is it just going to be a random thing that you thought sounded cool when you arrived at the session?

If yes to all, then sure, I can't see why not. I've seen character goals far less reasonable than starting a cult.

You're unironically replying in support of an imaginary strawman

You stupid motherfucker, jesus christ

My strawman isn't imaginary. In my cult, we believe that he's very real!

>Like if I was a player and wanted to make a cult would you let me?
I had a player ACCIDENTALLY start a cult from really lucky rolls and not being a DICK to children.

he started by batting fish from a river with his staff for the children on the bank.

then he learned the art of boat dancing

and convinced a wise old goat to accompany him

I've got two campaigns going right now. One set in Faerun where I'm mostly just going off books. In that situation I'd let you. We've gone off script so many times that it's almost par for the course. The other campaign is far more focused so I probably wouldn't let you there. For the most part I'm letting the players do what they want, but I've explained that there is an end-game and I'm guiding them towards it.

Sure. If you try really hard, you might even be able to get three whole members.

Of course, two of those members are homeless drifters who are just there for the free beds and outfits, but worshippers are worshippers.

I'd be happy if my players actually took the initiative and tried to make an impact on the setting.

>All right, so several of the town's homeless arrive since you promised food. A local teenage edgelord wearing a set of drapes as a cloak also shows up. What do you do?

Depends on system.

If it fits, yeah. I wouldn't let someone do it off hand, but I do remember one game where this sort of happened. The DM allowed it because we did it between outings while we went back to town, and it only came up once in the main story.

We (Me and a wizard) started a group out of the remains of a bandit pack. We convinced them to help the community, and justified the creation basically under the guise of "social reform." Really we just wanted more sway over the local politics and figured our own independent force of slightly trained idiots would do.
Things took a turn however after the wizard got a little too touchy with some artifacts in a dungeon and began to believe he was directly talking to the god of death. After becoming this newfound prophet, he started slowly changing our group. The uniform became a dedicated robe instead of cloak on top of your clothes, Meetings started happening later, and more and more often there were meetings I wasn't a part of. This all came to a head when we were fighting the Second in command.
Basically, The wizard snapped. The OOC reason was this was our last game together, as he had to move out of country, so the DM knew what was gonna happen, and IC we had all suspected it, It made for a good betrayal.
Basically he murders the boss with his macguffin death god totem, and starts monologuing about how wonderful it is to be dead, and how we should all join him in it as brothers. A good fight ensues, we kill him, badda bing badda boom we beat the BBEG. (Also my example of a good party betrayal, there's more to it that makes it alright.)

next session starts us off on a new adventure, as our "social movement" has gone full cult, burning down our starting town and performing rituals to summon our friend back as a true undead.
And that's how I unknowingly contributed to the creation of our go-to villainous organization. even in games now, "The night sky" sweeps over the land and stirs up shit.

>Do you guys allow freedom in your games?
No, all players are absolute puppets whom do as ordered when ordered. There is no exception.
If someone rolls a die it lands where I fucking tell it to land or it fucking finds another god damn game.

Depends on the setting. And other players.

If it doesn't conflict with the tone of the game, sure.

Like, I won't allow you to play a character who is secretly a member of the Kolat or a bloodspeaker when the rest of the players are genuine jade magistrates, because that's not the kind of game I'm looking to run. Easy as that.

No brian, founding a cult is not covered by your freedom to play as you will. It's 100% because you need everyone else to know you're a satanist like the black fingernails and upside down cross necklace didn't give it away.

Now you can play the game everyone showed up for, or you can try to selfishly make the game about you somewhere fucking else.

You can be part of a cult, you could be making one on the side.

But if its a dungeon crawl kind of game, you better expect to be dungeon crawling and not hanging out in a village converting the villagers.

Well it certainly rests on whether or not the opportunity exists and whether or not you choose to put in the effort.

I'm currently running Demon the Descent, so starting and improving cults is part and parcel to the game experience. But you still have to tell me how you were going to build this cult, then play through scenes involving you reaching your goal. Same thing if you wanted to start a cult in Black Crusade or any other game really. In DtD your cult will be dormant or temporary unless you invest experiences in it, but in Black Crusade you might earn experience just for starting a cult.

Now as to what you can actually do with said cult depends entirely on how much work you loading onto me. DtD and Black Crusade would be easy to measure as the former already has formal rules and the latter would likely include horde NPCs- easy for me to track and manage in both counts.

Now say we played D&D or Pathfinder in an unfortunate lapse of reason on my part. Your cult will probably be a bunch of monster stats I lazily decided would fit, and I'd only put the effort into it if you used them for anything other than off screen action (e.g. "You lot, go steal that book from the shrine for me while my friends and I go pillage another tomb").

This is all a moot point if there really is no reason or opportunity for you to start a cult. Say you're on a sea-going adventure and you decide right then and there you want to start a cult. Sailors are a superstitious lot as it is, but good luck trying to generate the rapport and atmosphere of secret mysticism required to convince them to initiate. I mean, you could, but it won't be easy at all.

Yeah, I would. I'd rather run a soap opera where the characters have their own motivations and goals that shape the story than a pseudo-epic where the players are forced on a tour through my world and narrative.

If I knew you weren't going to railroad everything with snowflake or magical realm bullshit, sure.

If the party was cool with it beforehand, sure.

These two things come before any practical considerations and I am sure these two things would prevent 90% of players from doing it.

Does it make sense for the characters and context, and is it conducive to mutual fun for all involved?

If so, go for it. Otherwise, don't.

I guess I would. How good you'd be at it would depend on such things as your class, your knowledge(religion) and your charisma. The nature of your cult would probably also be aligned to your alignment. If you're good aligned, your cult would probably be a cult in the old Roman sense, which is pretty much a group dedicated exclusively to a single deity within the pantheon. If you're evil, it becomes more of a Kool-Aid cult.

I'm of the belief that as a character gets so ridiculously strong he towers over most ordinary mortals, he naturally collects some sort of following for himself.

Depends
>i make a cult
no
>hey mr npc come meet us in the catacombs at midnight to acquire enlightenment etc etc
yes

i force you to actually go through the steps that you think will end up in a cult

Why do you think people join cults in real world? It's a combination of a charismatic personality and hating your life.

So why the PCs are not able to replicate what the other, succesful cults in your setting have achieved?

See If you wajt a cult, all the power to you, but I won't be providing you with any guidance on how to make it. If you just say "My character starts recruiting for my cult", you're going to get a crappy result.
And that's ignoring that the specifics of the cult are important too. Who are they worshipping?

Since when is an upside down cross a Satanist symbol? Is that what people actually think these days?

Since the goddamn 60's you dip.

I only DM'd a few sessions so the forever DM could play a wee bit but so long as it made sense in context and character i let them complete freedom.

As per the cult, as you've probably guessed as of now, if it makes sense in-story then yes, i'd let you.

And the inverted cross has been a symbol of St. Peter since... well, since St. Peter was crucified upside down, really.

Kind of a weirdly lazy thing for satanists to do. It'd be like American rebels flying the U.S. flag upside down, even though that's just a military distress signal.

Kek.

I'd let you try but given that I like encouraging my group to travel the setting, the church authority is quite secure, and cults require a lot of personnel attention directed towards a small group of typically sedentary people to succeed , you're probably gonna fail. Worst case you're gonna get executed for heresy

*bump*

Retard only cult is game master

As long as the player remembers that the focus of the game is not going to be about the cult their character has made, that's fine. I generally don't mind players coming up with slightly off-the-wall shit, providing that they've got a track record of playing well with the group.

If you're That Guy who doesn't get the idea that it's a group activity where every character will get their moments in the spotlight, then you don't get your cult.

Yes. The last 3 games I DM'd I told players they can do whatever they want but they better be prepared to work for it.

The problem is they don't want to work for it.

It's not "my" game. It's our game. So feel free, but be warned - you have to follow through, I'm not picking up your half-baked ideas.

Depends wildly on the game in question. If your character happens to want to join a cult that appears though, you get all of the consequences that come with that, and if that means you disconnect from the party entirely then I'm going to have you roll up a new character that can take their place.

However, given that players and GM should be in good communication, this shouldn't be a lolrandom choice that takes anyone totally by surprise or causes problems. Either your GM maybe accounted for this based on your discussions about plans for your character, or perhaps they considered the possibility and can accommodate.

We had a player showing his character get interested in the culture we were trying to take down. Our characters ended up shaming his out of the idea of joining, it's great.

It depends on if the other players are cool with it. If everyone is on board then it's kosher, if it's just a grab to keep GM's attention on you then it's not.

I know this is bait, but I'm pointing out why this is dumb for any dumb people:

In a DICE ROLLING game, you can't automatically roll any dice you want. Try rolling a d4 in d100 call of cthulhu at your table for every roll.

In a CARD game, try playing an UNO Draw 4 in a blackjack.

In a ROLE- playing game, no one is lesser if they don't let you play a literal god/ king / magical girl / snake in a wheelchair in a game where that's not what they're looking for.

Just because something is about a thing, doesn't mean you can use that thing however you want with no regard for how other people feel. These are social constructs, free to be socially enforced by people with the means and lack of autism necessary to do so. In this case, whatever DM made you butthurt.

>* only applies if your name is L. Ron Hubbard...

>lazy satanists

It's a symbol of martyrdom.
This has nothing to do with Satan. Satan doesn't have a symbol.

So long as it doesn't take away from the rest of the groups enjoyment, sure why the fuck not?

Sure. Then I would invariably drop the guards on you and execute your character, but hey, you're allowed to undertake that action.

Why, exactly? For daring to leave your railroad tracks?

For being a cult.

>It's a symbol of martyrdom.
>This has nothing to do with Satan. Satan doesn't have a symbol.
As the creator of six, count em, SIX (6) metal album rock music record album covers, (some of which may even have been used) and therefore an expert witness, I can tell you with the utmost authority that you, sir, are wrong, sir. You LOSE. You get NOTHING.

What is the mark of the beast or 666? Alex

Alex?

ALEX!?!?!

ANSWER ME ALEX

two of my players made a cult for a school assignment, it was really well put together and detailed so we jokingly made one of their characters follow it strictly, going so far as to threaten people who eat eel (the holy animal) right in the street. it's gone so far that they found the main chapter of the cult under a large city and as a DM i love it. i love player participation as long as they don't fuck with the story

I invite them in, I welcome each one of them in turn 'Welcome to my dark cathedral of invidious intent' (my black cowl/robe looks much more impressive than edgelord's drapes and I'll probably grow a goatee just to look extra sinister) throwing in bits of made up Latin, y'know 'Diabolique incarnam excelsior blah, blah, blah' reading from an old cracked leather bound book disguised to look antiquated (which is actually a handbook of country crafts) I try to impress my newly gathered congregation of my dread majesty. Are they buying my act?

Too much too soon to be credible, cult inauguration is generally a long haul confidence trick in the real world. Compounded by circumstances not being optimal, he hardly inspires confidence or respectability wheedling his indoctrination plot from a prison cell.

>But something like this sounds like a good way to derail the entire plot and making the campaign all about your own character, which I would definitely smack down hard. I probably wouldn't tell you you can't do this unless you get really stupid with it, but there are plenty of in-universe ways to make a cult "fail" if necessary.
How would you do this? I know players who would just take that as a challenge to keep finding other ways to do it. Or that whatever method to stop them needs to be used would be so obviously GM fiat that it hurts immersion.

As much as logic and you skill could attain.

You aren't going to make a major religion, but you might make a few followers is you have good charisma and roll properly. If it keeps going on in a long campaign it might grow larger and you might have more influence.

Yes but then you'd have to deal with your fucking cult.

My stance on this kind of thing is
>Does it fit the tone/setting/party motivations/premise?
>Will it force me to focus on you to the detriment of other PCs?
If it's alright with me just give me a session to prepare and you'll get your sideplot. Proactive players are good, and "I'm starting a cult" is a potential treasure trove of plot hooks.

Definitely in a game like Adventurer Conqueror King, where you're expected to build up followers and rule a domain.

In a my highschool superhero game, no. That's not the focus of the game. You could certainly try to build a clique and get them to do cult-y things, but a proper cult will be beyond your reach.

In most other games however, your general mission is to fight evil and protect good and wholesome stuff through heroics, not to grow a cult in your backyard. We'd have agreed to the premise of the game before playing.

You can try it, but I will not dumb things down to enable it. I won't artificially hinder it either. It suceeds or fails depending entirely on your own actions and resources.

>b-b-b-but muh no-blocking
Find another GM if you don't like my kind of game.

No, not ingame. Shit's very basic, very linear, Diablo-world-needs-saving deal, and any time not spent on that is kinda a bummer (especially if at the table, out of the 5 of us, only two are speaking and figuring how the cult works and whatever). Very little downtime in my games, it's usually action, action, action, and usually everybody shines.
So, ingame, there's not much freedom because your guys are usually under constant pressure or very clear quests that need doing. The rails are there, and you're riding the bullet train.

But out of game yeah we can work it out, we can insert the cult right in and have your PC be a member, or master of the cult if the campaign's PCs are already powerful enough to be capable of having cults (eg. the fighter's already got his keep and man-at-arms followers). Out of game, anyone wanna add shit to my bland setting can.

Sure, don't expect it to get that much attention unless the other players are into it though,

The players are supposed to win, user.