/STG/ - Star Trek General

And he'll never be tried because sometimes a war crime is justifiable.
I don't think DS9 ever would have happened today.

Of course not. All the nuance has gone out of television. You couldn't have a relatable antagonist or a morally complex protagonist. Because the number-monkeys say that it won't screen well with stay at home moms and that's a growth sector. So instead we'll just turn the protag into a moral absolutist, incapable of knowingly doing wrong and make sure that the enemy uses big, evil looking ships. Because why the fuck would you want to explore a conflict where the "bag guys" might just be people?

It really is a pity with modern film making. Most of we have now a days is drunken shaky cam and scenes so dark we can't see fuck all. It's quite depressing.

Either scenes are so shaky or so dark that we cant see a thing or they go so bright they havelensflares all over the place.

>He doesn't like cpt. Gabriel "moustache-twirlin" Lorca

For one the game is not very mechanically complex and is also narrative focused, rather than simulation focused. As a result the difference between ships of the same size is small stat and trait differences. Secondly almost none of the non-federation ships that exist are statted at all.

>Secondly almost none of the non-federation ships that exist are statted at all.
If there are only rules for Federation players that makes sense, non-Feddie ships basically exist as plot devices.

Speaking of a different STA...

The game doesn't provide any materials for playing as non-federation crews at all.

Why do that in your core book when you can sell that in separate splatbooks?

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Haven't tried it. Is it any good?

not really

What are it's flaws?

Excessive downtime and lack of meaningful decisions. I'd go further into it but it's 5 am here, ask /bgg/ they're give you a more in-depth criticism.

how OP are the new T6 ships in STO, would a T5 be able to hold up on the new stuff?

if I was going to buy a new ship, is it a waste to get a T5

You can buy an upgrade token for $5 that puts a t5 ship almost on par with a t6. What are you looking at buying?

Everything except PvP and elite PvE is easy enough that you can do it all with completely free shit. You can't min-max without T6 but "OP" is relative.

The thing T6 ships have over T5 ships is a single console slot and a starship mastery skill/grind with a starship trait at the very end of that grind.

Every tier 5-U ship (made with a ship upgrade token) gets itself an extra console slot and a similar mastery grind but without a ship trait at the very end.

sto.gamepedia.com/Starship_Mastery

sto.gamepedia.com/Starship_traits

In an earlier thread i mentioned that by owning a zen store variant of a ship gives you a discount on its fleet variant.

There is one exception to this rule and that exception is the Command assault cruiser T6.
Since it's a promotional ship you get by buying the sovereign model of the attack wing board game, it wont grant the same sorta fleet ship module discount other zen store ships give you.

Otherwise it is very similar to the other zen store ships in the way that it is an unlock, so once you have it you can grab it for your other characters as well (so long as they can fly federation ships that is).

>The thing T6 ships have over T5 ships is a single console slot and a starship mastery skill/grind with a starship trait at the very end of that grind.

Also innate shield and HP values. Non-upgraded T5's have level 50 stats. Still, it's not gamebreaking.

a Kumari class, probably the Kumari or the Khyzon

Or you could save some zen/money and get the triple pack for the prize of two ships.

Anyone have another link for the main rules? the first one has been DCMA'ed

Why buy one when you can buy three for double the price!

They were good ships in their time and I don't foresee T6 versions ever getting made so it should be a good purchase. I still recommend getting an upgrade token, either with zen or on the exchange for credits.

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For console set i suppose.

T5s can survive doing PvE (both missions and queues) just fine. There will also be a "free" T6 here in December during the winter event, if you want to wait, but there's no guarantee it'll suit your playstyle.

Cryptic has its Ferengi heart in the right place. Still, if you don't buy the packs, you'll end up spending more in the long run.

I'm not saying you should do it, but there is an upside. You get one of the ships "for free", you get its console, and you get the customization options. Maybe for a ship like the Kumari, you'll only want the one, but if you eventually decide to have Romulan or Klingon characters, the cross faction packs (especially the battlecruiser pack) starts to look real attractive.

Why did this make me so uncomfortable?

I just wanted Geordi to run out of the holodeck and refuse to talk to her ever again. Or stick a phaser in his mouth set to maximum.

Geordi made a mistake, and he got found out. And then he resolved it by being an dult and talking about it and explaining why he did it, but also admitting he was wrong. Refusing to talk to her ever again would have potentially gotten him a reprimand (depending on how Starfleet/the Federation views creating holograms of living persons without their consent), and lost him a potential friend.

Sticking a phaser in his mouth solves everything, but also inconveniences Picard and everyone else on the Enterprise, and Dr. Brahms being understandably angry with him isn't so big a deal that Geordi should resort to that rather permanent measure. It's not like he got captured and then inadvertently revealed sensitive information to the enemy twice.

Because it is uncomfortable. It's like if your waifu visited you and found your waifu shrine or your pile of creepy anime sex pillows. Then to rub it in, you find out she's married to Chad.

Because before O'Brien Must Suffer was the rule, Geordie Must Suffer was the order of things, because he is reasonably identifiable with due to being just a huge nerd who is really likeable most of the time. He's really not intimidating like other characters either so that helps.

>you'll end up spending more in the long run.

This is only true if you were going to eventually get all 3 anyway. If you were only going to get 1 and decide to get all 3 because it's a 'deal' then you've effectively given Cryptic money for nothing. Cross faction bundles are ok, but I really don't like when they do the tac/sci/eng variant bundles because you're basically paying $60 for one ship. not that I don't buy these packs, because I am weak. At least this time the miracle worker ships are fugly and I don't have to worry about it.

My guess is that the Trek writers are just exceedingly salty at engineers irl and go on to perform their payback in the show.

Is this the most perfect ship design in the franchise?

>warship but not overtly menacing
>bridge location not overly obvious like with the saucer ships
>nacelles actually protected instead of leaving grills completely exposed
>enough firepower to take on much larger capital ships
>ablative armor as a secondary defense instead of relying entirely on shields
>no excess windows serving as rampant structural weaknesses

Wish Trek took more design risks like this instead of always sticking with the saucer-stardrive-pylon template.

All they'd need to do is retrofit the bigger ships with ablative armor, take out the windows, and start using battle bridges instead of main bridges and most of the Defiant's "advantages" go away. So, no. Plus the Defiant looks like ass, with that dong hanging out in front.

The schnoz just needs to be moved aftwards so that its base is up against the circular structure in the middle of the ship, and scaled so that the deflector is flush with the saucer rim.

> depending on how Starfleet/the Federation views creating holograms of living persons without their consen

When Troi complained to Riker about Barclay doing the same, she got told to shut it because LolNoRegs.

I like the Defiant more than I dislike it, but there are things I dislike.

>bottom phaser cannons are strapped onto the hull like an afterthought while the upper ones are integrated to the ship
>the nose isn't integrated well enough with the rest of the ship and looks like it's going to fall right off (I know the beta canon reason and don't care DESU)
>The hull where the torpedo launchers are looks like it's designed to detach to reveal something inside, yet it doesn't.
>There are 'windows' on the Defiant, but they're in a nonsensical location on the bottom of the hull
>Why did the ship steal the Millennium Falcon's hyperdrive generators?

what even is the dong on the front for? it reminds me of Concords movable nose.

Personally I like the Nova/Sovereign/Intrepid/Prometheus style designs, where they're pointier and don't have a neck to them

>all they need to do is make other ships into defiants and the defiant advantages go away

Brilliant, dipshit.

It's biggest advantage is its size and maneuverability. So no.

The deflector nose is meant to be used as a last ditch missile.

Every Engineer has been suffering ever since Scotty. And even he got a suffering episode in TNG.

It's a shitty ship and only gets a pass because it's a protagonist ship. Bigger ships can mount bigger reactors, putting out more firepower. And they don't run the risk of ripping themselves apart.

The Defiant's main asset was its cloaking device, and after pic related, she's just an upgunned runabout who needs to be supported by bigger ships.

They should have kept the T'Rul around.
Guarding the cloaking device, providing a different point of view, shenanigans with Quark involving an embassy and some ale...

>don't have a neck to them
This is why I unironically like Cryptic's T5 Star Cruiser design. It really does seem like the kind of thing Starfleet would end up designing around the turn of the 25th century based on what we saw from the classes you listed.

>I know the beta canon reason and don't care

So the D'Deridex, being twice as large, is twice as powerful as a Galaxy class? Got it.

>Warp Core Breach Edition
Clearly that intrepid must have visited the subspace compression anomaly from One little ship.

Yeah, not really sure what happened. The dangers of phoneposting, I suppose.

>comparing two different empire's ships
>one of whom is massively more technologically advanced
>based solely on size
>taking a statement completely out of context

Yep. Sure showed me user. Putting words in my mouth like that. Next time you should use the Voth in your example.

It looks better upsidedown

>looking up something star trek related on google
>this comes up
>realize it never came to fruition
>TFW no 3d printed 12" star trek ships

That's the Nomad, right? It's certainly one of the earlier designs of Cryptic's that I liked. As you say, it seems like a natural evolution of Starfleets pivot towards sleeker, more streamlined ships.

Explain to me how bigger reactors equals more power. Honestly, I'm not that familiar with how matter-antimater reactors work on a starship (I only took basic physics in college).

Emissary with Sentinel nacelles. Nomad is the skin that comes with the fleet version. It's much better looking than pic related.

I don't know what they were thinking with the Miracle shit. The stardrive section should never be that massive compared to the saucer.

They look like two cruisers hit an anomaly and were merged together into one and Starfleet was just like 'Eh, this is fine'.

Jesus that thing is hideous. What the fuck, Cryptic.

They looked kind of shit up close. Also 12 inches is way too big, 6-8 is plenty. That cruiser looks nice though I admit.

They probably stopped it from happening when they realized that folks might make some impossible abominations where nacellas are floating separate from the ship (possible to pull off with some Akira variants or so i have heard).

That would at least fit with the Miracle Worker motif. There was a calamitous collision and both engineering teams just shrugged it off and started reconnecting eps conduits and turbolifts.

Nah, the company they partnered with went under.

That would actually be better than the design we got. At least a collision suggests we'd get two saucers, which would probably help balance out what's otherwise a really dopey looking ship.

First off, there's a bunch of shit in Trek that doesn't make any sense. In general, Trek takes a very non-scientific "bigger is better" approach to things. But if you want to completely ruin Trek, here:

>projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/antimatterfuel.php
>projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/fusionfuel.php
>projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/spacegunexotic.php

In Trek, ships use both antimatter reactors and fusion reactors, and it isn't clear exactly how they're getting power out of the things. The fusion reactors are also called impulse reactors, and are a component of the impulse drive system (basically, the impulse engines are fusion torches or something like it). The antimatter reactor powers the warp/subspace field which lowers the ships effective mass via negative space wedgie.

But, in general, the gripes against the Defiant fall into the same category as gripes against space fighters. Some of which doesn't apply to Trek due to space magic. Smaller ships can't dodge energy weapons, but in Trek and Star Wars, they can because energy weapons don't act like real world ones would.

>projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/fighter.php

Whether or not you like the way the Defiant looks, every piece of tech on the Defiant could be better used on something bigger and more capable of shrugging off damage. Its maneuverability shouldn't even be a factor with computers doing most of the targeting, and 90% of all engagements happening within a light minute or two of the participants.

But again, this is Hollywood, where space magic is king. And even with that caveat, pic related makes the Defiant obsolete.

>projecthro
>applying to Trek at all
Subspace is a thing, normal space-time goes out the window.
I also love the argument autists like them always pull out that depend on infinite sensors with infinite resolution looking at the entire sky all at once with infinite processing power.

Not the guy you're replaying to, but wasn't the Prometheus made after the Dominion War? It would just make sense that it is better than Sisko's Pimp Hand.

>Wish Trek took more design risks like this instead of always sticking with the saucer-stardrive-pylon template.
Steamrunner, Saber, "Half-saucer"/Intrepid-type, Emmette-type (AKA the Federation Warbird), fully half of the new Feddie ships from Discovery (including finally canonizing the "Anton"-style).. I mean, it's not like they haven't started to deviate.

>every piece of tech on the Defiant could be better used on something bigger and more capable of shrugging off damage.

This isn't actually true in real life so I'm not sure why it should be true in Trek. Distributing firepower among a larger number of targets adds redundancy and allows for a more granular distribution of resources. The point of the Defiant isn't to be the equal of a larger ship in a smaller package, it's to be a more efficient ship in a smaller, more numerous package.

Emmette concept sketches from Eaves. You only see part of her ass, very briefly, in the title sequences.

The Defiant is ugly and obsolete, was my point. Jacking off to that piece of shit usually boils down to "muh cloak", "muh cannons", and "muh wolfpacks" (the latter of which we never see and is entirely headcanon).

You mean the sensors that allow the Excelsior to view in real time what's happening on Praxis? Or are you bitching about stealth in space, which requires none of the things you're talking about in order to defeat?

What part of subspace renders energy weapons capable of missing starships at less than light minute ranges?

What part of subspace says "hang everything guys, SUBSPACE" as an actual defense against criticism? Seriously, look at how much we know about the thing:

>memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Subspace

And even with that, it's still an ugly POS, which the Prometheus can conveniently replace.

>it's still an ugly POS
We're going to disagree about this so I'm not going to argue about it.
>conveniently replace
It will be replaced eventually anyway so I've no real problem with it being phased out of service relatively quickly (but not before the rest of the Mirandas, Excelsiors, Oberths, and anything else pre TNG we still saw in action).
>the Prometheus
Fucking disgusting. MVAM should be considered a one off thing that was considered a failure if for no other reason than to save me from ever having to see it again.

I'd rather suffer MVAM than have to look at that goddamn hockey puck with a penis stuck on the front.

This.

Prometheus is gimmick-ship. Looks cool, if it didn't split it'd be nice. But that 3-way split is just... typical Voyager.

>And even with that, it's still an ugly POS, which the Prometheus can conveniently replace.
Alright, let’s get it out there already: you’re upset that the ship design you like more is always going to be less famous and massively more obscure simply because it wasn’t featured in a show.
In comingdecades mostly nobody will watch Star Trek shows but people into old cheesy 90’s sci-fi, that’s a given.
But when they do they will associate the Defiant as the primary Federation-style “warship” simply because it’s on TV and was called so on-screen by several characters, whereas the Prometheus will grow more and more obscure as it is slowly forgotten to even greater degree then the Defiant or Galaxy-class ships as pop culture leaves it all behind.

It know it hurts, but it’s best to deal with it now.

>simply because it wasn’t featured in a show.
Featured PROMINENTLY, excuse me.

>You mean the sensors that allow the Excelsior to view in real time what's happening on Praxis?
They actually didn't. It pulled one still image of Praxis 30 seconds after sending for one, and the image they got was basically pointing a really high-tech FTL telescope at a known, still location. Absolutely not something that can be used in real time to deal with an enemy vessel.

Not arguing with anything else, just that one point.

I actually dislike both the Defiant and Prometheus, but having to choose between them aesthetically, I would pick the Prometheus. And before someone puts any other words in my mouth, DS9 is my favorite among the various Trek shows. I just dislike the way the Defiant looks, and also dislike how much wank it gets from fans.

None of this hurts me. I argue on /stg/ all the time because I like arguing with my fellow /stg/ fags.

If their long range sensors are that good, their up close battle sensors are probably better, but we can let it stand.

I mean, long range sensors and battle-time sensors are completely different things. It's like saying someone has amazing telescopes, so their LADAR must also be amazing. Doesn't actually follow.

Of course, this being the Federation, them having good tech is always the safe bet.

I assumed that was to make it look sort-of-Romulany, like the beak of the D'deridex, given that the last developmental stages were a little colabaratory to get it a cloak.

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Its last development stage was mothballing it, actually. Sisko requested the Defiant, they christened it, and he brought it back to DS9 so O'Brien could make the mess of a ship actually work. The cloaking device was an agreement between the RSE and the UFP, and, until they forgot about it, there was a Romulan officer in charge of the cloak.

In no way was the Defiant a joint project. The dong on the front (which some nicely call a schnozz) comes from a rejected Maquis fighter design. It's on the MA page for the Defiant class. It also has the dong.

Here. I'll just post it.

There was also this idea. Got dumped for being >too< small, but it was supposed to be a claoking runabout for scout work early on.

That concept eventually got dusted off for the Aerie-class.

I'm seeing zero resemblance here....

>we want the star wars audience
The Maquis ripping off the Rebel Alliance aesthetic would actually be pretty cool imo.

Concept, not model.

I'm so glad they went with a compact starship rather than an oversized runabout.

But then, I like compact fighty ships. Or just ships dedicated to a particular task and doing it well, like the Nova class. Or even the Oberth. Or bird of prey.

Omg that is seriously just a little chibi Defiant. Even the weird little pylons

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