Infinity General: Winter Wonderland Edition

>I'm surprised at how salty I still am about E/M vulnerability
Are you an Exrah?

I was. It's hard to be Exrah now.

It's hard to feel like I got anything more than my comeuppance though, after abusing Vector Ops and their smoke hopping relentlessly. I still really hope they return.

Reminder that all of this is in your FLGS now.

The only really balance arguments are about some PanO units being subpar (which is more about internal faction balance and design direction), FUCKING GHAZI and Post-Humans feeling undercosted. Everything else is usually some Eastern European houserules fucking things up.

Oh, and I almost forgot Securitate. Again.

>but most lists I have seen online have 4-5 rifle dudes
That is unusual. Fusiliers have pretty high BS, so it's common to give them a Missile Launcher, HMG or Multi Sniper Rifle, sometimes ML and HMG at once. Also Fusilier is the cheapest Hacker, though I guess Deva is a better hacker.
But yeah, that ML Fusi? He's fucking deadly.

There's also some Shas units that are truly terrible, but we've just accepted it at this point. Quite a few factions have units as subpar as PanO's too, they just don't complain about them that much.

Su Jian with NWI is a candidate for third place in the bullshit competition imo, though it's a fair distance behind the other two. And then there's Tohaa, which has so much weird garbage that it can be hard to figure out what's bullshit and what isn't.

this is what I have been told 1 is needed for Lt, one for FO, two are hackers , two should have heavy weapons of some sort like missle lanchuers or sniper guns. And two other with combi riflies are there to give orders.

In NeoTerra you're limited to 5 Fusiliers you know. Well, 5 + Bipandra, but she's kinda meh.
My usual comp is Lt, one normal as Lt decoy, FO/Paramedic, Hacker and ML.

That's a bit excessive for one list. In vanilla I usually don't have more than 3 fusiliers because you should putting that SWC to work on better things like Nisse. In NCA you bring 5, one of which is the ML and whatever else you want to fill out the link.

they told me that is what neo terra is using, but on the other hand I don't think anyone plays neo terra at the store, just knight orders and the shock army.

Are Tohaa good yet?

I've only really ran two kinds of fusilier links in NCA, keeping in mind AVA 5.
Barebones: just recently did this, link was ML, FO, Paramedic, LT, and combi (LT decoy).
All in: not so much these days but generally it goes something like ML, HMG, hacker, FO, Paramedic.

Well, first you need to learn the rules if you haven't already.
Second, go to Army Builder and choose PanO > NeoTerran Capitaline Army. You'll see what units are available to you and at what AVA. Some things may surprise you (like Bolts having AVA Total and Garuda Tacbots), but that is how that sectorial plays.

Hashashin Ayyar is somewhat undercosted too.

Neoterran Capitaline Army
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

GROUP 1 10
FUSILIER (Forward Observer, Deployable Repeater)
FUSILIER Hacker (Hacking Device)
FUSILIER Lieutenant
FUSILIER HMG
FUSILIER HMG
AQUILA HMG
SWISS GUARD Hacker (Assault Hacking Device)
MULEBOT (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse.
SIERRA DRONBOT HMG
LOCUST (Marksmanship L1) Marksman Rifle

GROUP 21
DEVA (Sensor) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 24)

6 SWC | 298 Points

Panocenian starter set, Fusilier SWC box, drone box and a Aquilion Guard

blister.

Orc as Swiss guard, nisse as locust

how about this>?

>2 fusi HMG

But, why?

I think you can go without the Hacker fusilier and the double HMG for the fusilier and get a shinier toy

Too many HMGs.

Pushing with Fusilier link is fine, but I'd replace the Aquila HMG with Hexa Sniper for range and the mean TO Camo. Also you want a Fugazi instead of Mulebot, you've probably just made a mistake here. Works well with Deva Sensor.

Also with the recent rule changes 11 Orders is a bit of a downside, as 10 Order groups are immune to having two Orders taken away if going first, so you want more than 1 order in the second group.

Fast link that can break face on the cheap?

So the nisse run as sniper hexa. The orc run as a swiss guard. But what do I do with the hmg aquilon now that I bought him. Also If I upgrade the locust to a hexa, and lose the aquilon I have a ton of points and no real model to run in the list. Maybe I could run the fusilier hacker as a locust, but I worry that people maybe confused by it.

Oh, you already have the Aquila?
Well then, I'd run Aquila as the main Face-breaker then, make Fusiliers a bit more defensive (ML instead of two HMGs) and probably run the ORC as ORC, whichever you like.
ORCs are not as good as Swiss or Aquilas, as they don't have their special toys, but they are still solid and are a lot cheaper. They're good as Plan B when your Guard inevitably goes down.

ok, thank you very much.

I'm actually going to play against a similar lineup tomorrow. Any obvious weaknesses?

Then you would just announce that you have TO hacker for fielding robots.

Down the Aquila and the list is helpless against smoke.
Of course "downing the Aquila" can be easier said than done. But a Naga can kill one with a Combi just by shooting him in the back if he overextends (happened to me).
Use the Camo guys in ways that forces the opponent to be in a Lose-Lose situation: shot at freely if declare Discover, loses ARO if delays it. That way even the Aquila will have to eat some free bullets.
Also nothing can fight in CC or in short range too effectively, which is common for PanO. Chain Rifles, flamethrowers and ninja-like units are their bane.

would a TR bot run as a tandem with the Aquilion make him a bit safer in the reaction phase?

Depends on many factors, but not really. TR bots are general area control, but aren't that durable, when pitted against stuff that has superior firepower/stacked modifiers. So either hide the Aquila or be okay with the fact that it might not survive the reactive phase. Mind you that if your opponent wastes a turn hunting single model you can very well still win the game.

My FLGS doesn't carry Infinity.

Nah, he hasn't gotten it from his distributor yet.

The fact that Symbiomates exist at all is an abomination. They simply shouldn't exist in the game system; Tohaa are the "no hard choices" faction and it shows.

Also the Sierra dronbot and the Mulebot come in different boxes. Sub the Mulebot for a Fugazi.

Well, one doesn't really need one in this day and age.

Coming from Ariadna and looking into Vanilla Haqq, mainly expanding from red veil, does this list seem playable? CwBgjAPgzCIdBSGUFhAdhQQjE8qQA2AVgRz1zUICYzSZS0AOYMsXKd1dws4FKP1TVqIPgE4E6dJOrjYZXjF5px2Tkg3t0TMlAH7uTWuRiUiKAAKgkNsKN1YbgsfZC7LloA

Eh, sure, but I'd change some units (Zhayedan and Tuareq, mainly) to something else and give Muttawiah some regular orders.

Took those two out, added a hafza lt and ghulam to group 1, and then added 3 naffutan to group 2. Does that seem any better?

Give it a try.

Those units you removed weren't neccessarily bad, but you list had enough glass cannons.

It's "Aquila". And sure, you can push them both with coordinated orders, then hide the Aquila or put it in Suppressive Fire and leave the TR bot to cover a lane. You can also give it Marksmanship with the Hacker.

artichoke commandos yes or no

>artichoke anything
No.

Tes

I got to actually use my USAriadna today
Foxtrot rangers seem really strong. If not in killing power, then in area denial. He managed to keep an Orc and a... regular dude, whatever they're called pinned down.
What would be a good place to expand from the army box? I got introduced to fire-teams tonight, and I think I want to buy a grunt box just to build up my fire-team.

I wonder how many people are REEEEEEEing over the fact Ariadna now has something tech, if that Blackjack exo is Ariadna

>being a filthy mon'keigh

>regular guy
Fusilier?

How important is it that I have a Ninja? I don't know anybody who wants to play Haqq, so I can't really split RV. Can I do without the Ninja and just buy the basic six-dude starter?

Yeah I think that's it.
Also is there no way to buy the rifle Foxtrots without buying the army box?

Iirc, if it has a beret, no mask, and isn't in power armor, it's Fusiliers.

PanO player here, but have some experience facing YJ and talking tactics with them. Tacbow is garbage, but the Tacbow Ninja is good if you want access to a Killer Hacker Device (even then it is still limited but very powerful in killing off other hackers and button-pushing). He might be nice to have but not completely necessary since Obiwabans tend to be better at infiltrating and fucking up your opponent's backlines.

Typical PanO, ignoring CC even when it's one of the most powerful parts of the unit. Oniwaban is for hunting, Ninjas are for ambushing. That hidden deployment allows them to sit and wait near a chokepoint before jumping out and shanking/hacking anything valuable the opponent tries to send through. It's even got the side effect of setting up mindgames for the future if you do it enough, they'll be suspicious of likely ambush spots even when you don't bring a Ninja.
Tacbow is garbage, but that's fine. Ninjas shouldn't be shooting their guns anyway.

>Ignoring CC

That is because it is garbage most of the time. Due to a) being order hungry and b) Unreliable as shit. That said, you do use it when you sneak up on my Nisse sniper and that will cause problems and the scenario you mention is where CC tends to actually be good.

Honestly I am more afraid of Oniwaban because of Superior Infiltrate and the ability to get in the back ranks and take out my reaction pieces (though Black Friar is definitely an option, but even then it is still going to lose to Obiwaban in melee a majority of the time).

It's not order hungry when you do it in ARO and tie up a Swiss Guard for the rest of the game. It's only really order hungry when you don't have a delivery system, and Ninjas have the best delivery system of allowing the enemy to come to them.

What would be a good tohaa list (300 points) for someone starting the game? Or would Tohaa just not be good to start with?

Yeah, Grunt box is key. You may even want to double up, in case you wanted to use multiple Snipers in a link and multiple infiltrator Grunts without proxying.
And it's fine to use any non-rifle Foxtrot as Rifle, so get the shotgun girl. And there's also the Intel Spec-Ops. Soon there's going to be a Grunt-looking one new sculpt for him.

Aside from that you may want a Hardcase to support your Foxtrots and a Marauder box, to get benefits of Haris. But after you've decided what your Core is going to be, you can go anywhere. USARF has very few units, but they're all very good units.

>have a sensor
>triangulate fire the fucker into oblivion with zero risk

It's rare to find the exclusive models individually on ebay so it's a better idea to buy RV and sell the Haqq part rather than just buying the YJ starter, in case you ever change your mind and want to try out the Ninja.

Only option is to start both Haqq and YJ then.

That's a decent potential counter, though hardly zero risk if the Ninja is engaged with something valuable like a Swiss hacker. I'd gladly sacrifice a Ninja's life to make a completely unopposed attack on one of those. And if it isn't engaged or I'd like to keep it alive, dodging still has a pretty decent success rate against most trifire platforms. We're working with BS8/9 here in most cases, even at burst 3 against no cover it isn't exactly the strongest stuff.

>though hardly zero risk if the Ninja is engaged with something valuable like a Swiss hacker
That's the beauty of Triangulated Fire: it actually is.
When you use it, all mods are ignored, including the -6 for shooting into CC *and* you don't risk hitting your own guy.

Also, the Ninja can't Dodge when it's target of Triangulated Fire if it's in CC. CC models have their LoF limited to CC.

Ah yeah, then it's a great potential counter. However the fact that it's based around a specific skill that requires LoF means that it by no means stops the tactic from being useful, it just forces you to keep it in mind. Make the positioning awkward enough and that fat sensorbot isn't going to help at all.

Well, obviously. No hard counter is valuable if it's not present. Just don't engage with engage, as the opponent can then place the model in most visible location. Remember, that cover, range, saturation zones or visibility zones (bar zero visibility and eclipse, ofc) aren't an issue with triangulated fire. I regularly field Acontecimento regular with sensor and have managed to snipe CC ninjas with that. And Neoterra has Devas as an sensor option.

Anyone here got experience with the Rodok models? If so, can their arms be switched around between models? Especially the missile guy's left arm and the left arm on either the the one with the two shotties or the knife one.

The ML Rodok is from a separate blister as opposed to the rest of them, which are the standard two body types box deal. So it'll take some work most likely.

>If so, can their arms be switched around between models?
Yup. But what you probably want is another boarding shotty with a regular wingpack to be a doctor.
>Especially the missile guy's
I don't see why not. His body is just the regular one and his arms have the same pegs. You may need to file them down a lil but that's a big whatever.

Just like the regular one*

Just buy the big box, it's good value and IIRC all the stuff in there is useful. You might add a Gao-Rael to have some MSV support.

Might be a bit of a learning curve (enjoy reading about fireteams) but this guy is right,good box just grab it and you're mostly good. I say mostly because the Gao is good and Rasails are kinda nice as well. But the Makauls Symbiomons are pretty much mandatory and everything else or a combination thereof (asides from the ectros) are usually found in almost any list.

Eh, some work with the file or minor greenstuffing would be fine, as long as it works to some degree. My fear is mostly that the arms on the ML guy would be part of the mini, since it's a seperate kit.
>But what you probably want is another boarding shotty with a regular wingpack to be a doctor.
Yeah, that's actually sort of my issue with them. If I bring them as a core link I'd take HMG, ML, Hacker and combi-filler, obviously, but the second combi guy would then be superfluous while I'd need a second BSG for the paramedic.
I know it's stupid, but I *loathe* proxying, so that's right out. My thought was that having the guy with the light shotties take the knife arm and make him the paramedic, put the other shotgun on the ML guy and give the empty hand to the combi guy. It's hardly ideal, but what can you do...

Contact cho about it and buy a extra hacker and combi guy switch the arms around. It's probably what I'll end up doing and I already have a extra 2 shotty guy on top of that.

>tfw you end up with 10 Rodoks
Super jumps for days.

>tfw you end up with 10 Rodoks
Don't remind me, that's how I got 6 Noctifers.

It's a hard lot being aliyums in this dang old galaxy I tell you what.

>Aristeia has plastic minis
>Have to pay almost double to get metals
WHY

Maybe cho konnit's splits?

>Aristeia! models are gorgeous
>have no rules in Infinity proper
Kill me now.

I've been hyped for Aristeia for ages; Infinity died a death in my locale and I'm having to sell my YJ/Ariadna because I can't justify having that much stuff sitting unused. I saw Aristeia as a way of having some decent CB models that I can get out for a game with whoever whenever, but this is just demotivating

Okay cool. What are some good weapons to put in a fire team?
Like, would rifle rifle rifle HMG sniper rifle be a good choice?
Also how are the Blackjacks? makes me want them so bad, they look hella cool.

For Grunts, the most common fireteam I've seen is a purely defensive one with 2-3 sniper rifles (I'd encourage proxying for them) and the rest of the link filled out with either flamethrowers and rifles. Often it's best to give the riflemen either the FO or paramedic skill so that they become specialists.

Putting an HMG in there can good if you want to be more aggressive with your link, and the sniper can back it up as an ARO piece. In an aggressive link I'd definitely go for at least one specialist and one flamethrower, since the former can give the team versatility and the latter is extremely useful for fending off short range attackers.

Blackjacks are solid. The AP HMG is a slow but tough attack piece, but the real star is the T2 sniper. A very hardy defensive unit with weapons for all ranges (never underestimate an SMG in suppressive fire), and can even see use on the active turn if you want to outrange somebody with the sniper rifle.

I would recommend desperados too, cheap smoke bikes with chain rifles and burst 5 assault pistols are no joke.

New FAQ is being proofread, I heard. Have some wacky stuff.

You can still use some as mercs, Lunah Mushashi and Massacre already have rules and I'm gonna use them as such.

>almost
I don't know your prices, but here the upgrade costs more than the standard game, just to get a fancy box, duplicate minis in metal and some shitty postcards.

Buy the starter? :^)

Seriously tho, buy the other ones and give them rifles.

Different base size.

Not that user, but would it be shitty of me to proxy the snipers with the starter rifle Grunts and just leave out and not use the actual sniper model, just for consistency's sake?

I'd be fine with it, but I'm pretty lax about that kind of stuff. You'd have to ask the people you're actually going to play with.

Aristeia has plastic minis with which it looked very low detailed and basically melted in comparson to the metal minis they're releasing alongside it

Nope, the metal ones are on standard CB 25mms. And I'm gonna rebase mine the same way, the shittily glued slot looks cheap af.

>posting an edit

Beyond the Red Veil, good with new Hassassins starter, or not?

If you're okay ending up with a bunch of gooks and Tarik MANsuri, sure.

Depends where you buy from. In the UK most retailers have it at £45/£80 if I'm not mistaken