Have you tried not playing D&D?

It's your own fault for not having friends. We play Rules Cyclopedia as often as we go through other games, and no one minds.

I do have friends you fucks. They all have extremely different schedules and playing a game with them is nigh impossible.

>after many years of 3.5 and Pathfinder we try other systems
>AD&D was not what it's cracked up to be
>holy dogshit Palladium is a dumpster fire
>Savage Worlds is overly random and everyone ended up at hybrid caster/melee fighter
>ended up stabilizing on 5e

I think 5e's simplification may have gone too far in a few places but we're enjoying it.

>Interact with people socially.

>Holy shit, my players keep doing retarded stuff
>Have you tried not playing D&D
>You know, you're right, let me try a different system, let's go Runequest
>Players still do retarded shit
>Complain about it on Veeky Forums
>HAVE YOU TRIED NOT PLAYING D&D?

Rule one of Veeky Forums: You don't listen to Veeky Forums

Have you tried not coming to Veeky Forums for advice?

Not op but I have

Its bitching and moaning about how every system sucks even though they've only played 5e for like a year

This. The only goid thing on this board is the generals and even those are spotty

Have you tried finding better friends?

The problem with the "have you tried not playing D&D" is that people use it more often than not when playing a different system wouldn't solve anything.

Few problems discussed on this board can be solved just by switching systems, largely because at the end of the day, the system is actually only a small component to the game that's being run, and that switching systems just leads to a new veneer on the same old problems.

"Try X system" is not always bad advice, but it's not particularly helpful in a thread about problem players, or about story issues, or even alignment arguments, because even in the last case it's just a name (or a different name) for things you'll find in find in almost every other game. Even games "without" alignments still have degrees of morality to them or factions with codes of conduct, and most alignment arguments typically revolve around these two features of alignment.

Does D&D have flaws? Certainly, but most of these are remedied in far less time than it takes to learn a new system, and the idea that you should abandon a system just because something didn't work out is why we find a lot of people hopping through multiple systems hoping that a change of game will solve their problems.

Most of the whole problem with system discussion is that it's actually political in nature. Play X game or play Y game is a tactic to try to garner support for one game or dissuade people from playing another, and is largely dishonest in its lack of transparency. D&D becomes a target not because it's a bad game by any measure, but because it's popularity means people are less inclined to play other games.

As a person who has played his share of everything under the sun and now plays homebrews almost exclusively, I've really gotten tired of people claiming system superiority or inferiority when they're all just talking about the same inferior games just under different disguises.

If only they knew how amazing Duck in the Circle was.

>>Can't find GM

Entitled shit. Run a game yourself.

>D&D becomes a target not because it's a bad game by any measure, but because it's popularity means people are less inclined to play other games.
It's also the first game that newfags think of when they think TTRPGs, and consequently the first game that those newfags play and learn. D&D's awful memes (alignments, setting dependency, d20, etc.) are ingrained in the collective unconscious of most players regardless of the system they're currently playing.
The only way to make "Have you tried not playing D&D?" a practical question is to completely obliterate D&D's stranglehold on tabletop gaming. Odds are if more people started out with other systems (GURPS, Dark Heresy, Runequest, Maid RPG, anything other than D&D), at least half the stupid questions Veeky Forums gets wouldn't have to be asked.

>Already running two games
>Got tired of trying to find a GM for an obscure system and decided to run it anyway
>1 player has shown interest
Yeah, nah. Fuck off.

>Certainly, but most of these are remedied in far less time than it takes to learn a new system
Maybe if we're talking 4e, but in the time it takes to research the problems and possible fixes for 3.PF/5e (assuming you're not just "fixing" things in a haphazard way that exacerbates the problem), you can learn three new systems.

Why does D&D suck, according to Veeky Forums forced memes?

I taught two new players to play Savage Worlds in my last play session, took 1/2 hour to make characters and 1 hour 'obstacle course' to test out skills and they were on it.

Here's the kicker: I don't even know system that well, last i played was 2 session 5 years ago.

Unless you're going for something bizarre like CthulhuTech or something with spreadsheet-like character sheet, or you're playing with actual retards, new systems aren't a problem.

That's what I'm saying. So why are you quoting me?

Some people are indecisive.

The buttons are hard to click.

There is no need to be upset

Saying it sucks is such a ridiculous statement considering how vastly different each edition is. Now if you say "D&D 3.X sucks", then I'd agree with you.

The one universal constant between editions is that D&D is largely focused around dungeon crawling, and that's the one thing it does well. Problem is, because it's popular people try using it to run EVERYTHING under the fucking sun, homebrew the shit out of it, and basically end up with a horrid, slap-dash mess that leaves everyone feeling let-down.

Of course, people say "have you tried not playing D&D" regardless of context because they don't utilize critical thought, but that's neither here nor there.

>>Can't find a GM/enough players to play

With not playing d&d we mean not playing d&d PERIOD.

You are assuming we meant something more.

If you are stranded at the sea, you wont drink sea water. Thats a rule. If you dont have other things to drink, you will still follow the rule

>d&d is created and get famous
>its the first rpg so (since its famous) you have all those extreme amount of rpg players with different point of view of how a rpg should be, playing the exact same rpg
>after some amount of time playing some players discover some stuff they think are flaws, while discover some rules they think are really awesome
>because they have very different views on what a rpg should be (despise playing the exact same rpg), what some guy think is a good idea wont be considered a good idea by the other player, what some consider a shitty idea will be considered a good idea by other rpg
>new system is made based at this enviroment, and create a mess of a rpg system.
>many of those players quickly jump into the new system, expecting fixed to what they think are flaws
>because the players have very different opinions on what rpg should be (despise playing the same exact system), what is a flaw to some is a fix to another, and what is a fix to another is a flaw to someone. So the system CAN'T be fixed.
>all those extreme amount of players quickly jumping to this new system, bring new (to rpg) players to the new d&d system
>this make the game have an extreme amount of rpg players with different point of view of how a rpg should be, playing the exact same rpg
>because they have very different views on what a rpg should be (despise playing the exact same rpg), what some guy think is a good idea wont be considered a good idea by the other player, what some consider a shitty idea will be considered a good idea by other rpg
>new system is made based at this enviroment, and create a mess of a rpg system. No one knows what the system/d&d is suposed to be, because it was created based on a mess.
>the story continue ad infinitum

>when playing a different system wouldn't solve anything.

Its not playing about different system, its not playing d&d. There is a difference

>play wfrp
>everyone plays an backstabbing asshole because "it's a grim setting"
>all my effort to make camradery is in vain

Granted this is mostly the group fault but they are standard holier than thou types as soon as D&D or other high fantasy is mentioned.

WFRP is the primary system in my country and it generally breeds these kinda players:
>that dude with an enormous beard who always plays the most grandiose characters and punctuates the beginning of every sentence with a "HAH!"
>that dude whose entire hair migrated to his chin and who plays a dwarf or a very conservative human and his favourite brand of roleplaying is "pfuh! I bet it's the bloody elves who did this!" whether it is because he rolled low or the beer at the inn is weaksauce
>that towering man wearing a black shirt with a hilariously funny roleplaying meme like "I love RPG - Raping, Pillaging and Garroting", except you can't see it because of his facial hair, and he insists on hamming it up FOR ULRICCCCC
>and the aforementioned dude who thinks playing idealistic characters is for babies and not true and real roleplaying, which he knows because he never tainted himself with the scrubby casual D&D in his 27 years of roleplaying, and his outwardly noble knight cheats at cards and rapes village wenches that fall for his rugged looks
>all run by a DM who makes it certain not a single NPC will like you for any arbitrary reason because it's gritty

>all run by a DM who makes it certain not a single NPC will like you for any arbitrary reason because it's gritty
Oh yeah, also WFRP is the perfect system for killer GMs who want to blow the fastest through your Fate Points (and leave your character painfully humiliated as a result of using one; a character once ended up castrated by falling off a cliff, Aragorn-style, and slicing himself on a sharp rock) and those GMs that are like
>you bring Lord Wulfric the much coveted gem
>ask for a reward
>he says "hah! begone with me, PEASANTSSSSS"
>his guard surrounds you and aims pikes at you

Never ever got a straight up "reward" for doing something in this fucking system.

Then what's Rule One?

>I'm a 600 year old elf ranger who has an epic backstory and aeons of gritty experience under my belt
>I start as a retard who can barely fight a mouse, I have no realistic advantages or skills

>I'm a halfling fighter, just 15 years old
>I can dominate and overpower half-orcs in a wrestling match because fuck logic, my stats happen to be higher

>I learned how to do impossible magic feats because I kicked enough dogs this week

Every part of its lore is a disgrace to fantasy.
Every system and mechanic is retarded.
Everything is half-baked, gay, and meaningless ego stroking for the autistic inbreds of the 1970's who had no clue how the world works.

BUT IT'S OKAY BECAUSE
>RULE ZERO
>If anything isn't good, it must be the DM's fault for not home brewing and twisting the system enough!!

Not to mention that every roll is just bullshit that you retroactively have to make up retarded logic to explain.

>Uhhhh even though you're a 15 year old halfling, the orc uhhhhhhh... slipped on some beer and so you succeeded in your grapple

>Uhhhhh kicking dogs... Ummm... Caused a sense of enlightenment to... Like, fuck it, RULE ZERO

>>I'm a 600 year old elf ranger who has an epic backstory
Poorly written characters not fitting the premise will be pain to see in every system.

>>I'm a halfling fighter ... I can dominate and overpower half-orcs
This is actually feature. PCs are heroes in heroic story. Overpowering foes twice your size is part of the genre.

>I learned how to do impossible magic feats because I kicked enough dogs this week
Not true, unless only things that your DM gives EXP for is fighting and killing. Which is not how it should work.

Hence, a retarded system for retards like yourself. I think we've confirmed the problem

IDK about forced memes, because I don't care, and in most discussions about why D&D sucks I notice most people attacking D&D are attacking really pointless details.
I still dislike D&D tho, but my gripes with it are more general than usual ramblings

1. It doesn't do fantasy well. It doesn't do fantasy at all, desu, jut capeshit masquerading as fantasy. Fantasy subgenre spawned by D&D is just awful.
2. The above is not confined to the system itself, but t did spread infectiously, becoming the most mainstream subgenre of fantasy, thus poisoning the whole genre permanently. I'm not a big fan of GRRM and GOT but i am extremely thankful for it's existence and popularity, and turning this tide of le colorful capeshit magitech minnesota-renaissance-fair tier shittery overusing tolkien's races in a way thet would make tolkien himself die of cringe if he wasn't already dead.
3. Crunch heaviness that, saying bluntly, wastes everyone's time both in game and prepwork, without any return
4. D&D is primarily a game and not a medium for telling interactive stories. That makes much of it's elements, designed from gamist perspective as gameplay elements, grind unpleasantly against narrative. From linear and swingy dice distributions, through bad abstractions to out of place numbers, it just makes everything look fake and in need of heavy handwaving to make basic sense as a story. Combat is particulary irksome, as it doesn't visualize easily as a cinematic, dramatic fight - instead seeming like fucking vidya.
5. People are saying that D&D is good because it offers lot of options and customization, but this is so far from truth as could be. Yes, there are plenty of elements that you can choose, but those are mostly unimportant, mechanical stuff or cringy snowflaky shit. Meanwhile, a plethora of character concepts - simple and valid concepts, often lifted from classical fantasy - cannot be competently realized in D&D because they don't fit coarse bricks system is made of.

>d20 has an absosmurfly terrible spread. Spreads should be slanted toward mid-range numbers
>there's simultaneously too many options (feats, spells etc.) to not be clutter and too little options not to feel restrictive
>massive focus on combat, almost no social/utility mechanics
>really weird design choices. Say you want to play a coward. A natural choice would be to lower your will, as that would make you more prone to being frightened. But to do that you must lower wisdom, which lowers your perception as well, which doesn't really make any sense. Being a coward shouldn't blind me. I don't see why paladins need to be socially-proficient, either, and so on and so on
>can't do anything beside its own setting
>customization is difficult to balance against already existing spells/feats/whatever since it was not created with it in mind
I mean, face it. Yeah, it's your first system, it's my first system, it's everyone's first system (occasionally the only system), but it has critical flaws.

It's really only good as a primitive loot-based dungeon crawler.

...That's what it was designed for. Then it got stretched into everything else without fixing the limitations and structure.

I wouldn't even run a D&D game except as a mindless dungeon crawl with a boss at the end

I've never personally considered dnd to be actually good for dungeon crawls beyond 3rd edition. Whenever I gave it a go it just seemed to be really ham-handed mechanics that encouraged you to install random nonsense into every orifice of a room so your players would have to spam search until they found the literal instant death some madman just chucked into their castle/temple/city designs. They really more seemed to branch off into having proper heroic fantasies with characters that weren't going to go into horrible slaughter caves, but they didn't change the game enough to accomodate for that in 3.x. 5e has made steps in the right direction but in contrast it feels like it's designed to "do everything" but the moment players start to stretch at the thin limitations of certain features you have to start bullshitting things. On the one hand 3.x had a frustrating amount of detail on things such as crafting and you'd have players spending half a session reading out of the book. On the other 5e has a tool system, but nothing that says what those tools mean. It's a strange world we live in.

Have you tried not responding to bait?

...

>decide to stop playing d&d
>can't find a enough players/a GM to do it
>make my own fucking group and learn the rules because I'm not a whiny bitch-ass motherfucker who expects everything to be done for them
>now have a GURPS group
Wow, so fucking difficult. I'm going to assume the only reason why you haven't killed yourself yet is because you're waiting for someone to do that for you as well.

dwdw

You listened to Veeky Forums when the solution is to stop coming here and letting 45 year old embittered grognards with bone deep autism poison your mind

What do you do, my good sir?

>want to play Fantasy Craft or homebrew
>no friends

The advice is to not play d&d.

When you are playing no system, this mean you are not playing d&d

you dont drink poison just because you cant find water to drink