Kings of War / Mantic Games General

3rd edition was released 5 years ago.

Nah, can't see it for a couple more years.

One of my gripes about Mantic is the whole dependence on kickstarters thing. I get that they're a great way of raising initial capital, but it does make some of their ranges feel a bit of a pump-and-dump job, with the player base only consisting of backers who got huge boxes of the stuff and never seemingly developing.

Makes a lot of their games feel transient, like unless you're in the Mantic bubble to me Warpath had the softest re-release ever when they should have been banging all the drums about it.

I've never been one for pre-ordering or crowdfunding or whatever though. And a lot of this could be said about many of these new start up companies. I kind of prefer my miniature suppliers as old bloke cottage industries with shit websites, not these blogposting fuckboys who want to sell you real-world DLC.

I'm hoping for KoM but they already have Basileans so I find that doubtful. That's the weird thing with KoM.

The faction with perhaps the most support and simultaneously the least. Model wise almost any human model from any company company is fair game giving you near-dizzying variety, yet I'll doubt they get any significant support from Mantic ever beyond keep them updated and balance.

Which is fair enough since they don't sell KoM models, but it just seems like it's in this weird middle ground I'm not familiar with.

Elves seems reasonable for the sixth faction. Trident Realms as wel would be solid.

Are they going to do any other Kickstarters other than Vanguard or have they anymore planned for the future?

Also, is Dreadball 2e still in limbo or is it going to be released at any point soon (beta does not count)?

I agree, by keeping doing kickstarters the backers get all the plastic they need in one hit, hurting the retailers and the long run growth of the game.

They need to stop it asap or to make deals with the retailers and limiting the amount of content accessible on kickstaters.

Yeah, I think for KoW and Warpath especially, I'd maybe just focus the kickstarter on the £20 rulebook, then maybe throw in a couple of limited miniatures and a way to get an Army box cheaper than regularly or something. Short-term that doesn't make business sense though.

Not a fan of the proliferation of KSs in traditional gaming overall. I get using them if you're casting miniatures in your shed and have a new Blood Bowl team or Ninja Gang to sell, but want to see if it's worth it.

I just think for the amount of good projects completed that wouldn't have happened otherwise; there's too many big companies basically passing on the risk to people who should just be their customers, and too many eager design types with no business acumen that want to make a quick buck and worry about fulfilling orders on "80s franchise nostalgia game mk.56" later.

They won't do more kickstarters for new kings of war ranges would they?

I don't think there's anything that needs fixing. It's not like with Warhammer that was perpetually broken in some way.

Dang, those are good.

Maybe something with the lists.
Undeads are winning a lot more tourneaments than the others, aren't they?

Mechanically, is Warpath actually a good game? I know that Kings of War is made by based Alessio and is pretty tightly designed, but I haven't heard a lot about Warpath in comparison.

I think that's mostly because Undead are over represented in number of players, probably because the models are so good.

Nah goblins are the tournament kings. And in my area is Rohrdia, evil dowrfs and the herd.

3 editor is going to probably focus more in terrains, probably doing a balance similar to historical toward terrain. Also they may going to fix palanca as at the moment is a underwhelming special rule.

Tried firefight some weeks ago and I was sold on it. Its a fun game with interesting rules and lot of decision making.

I faced some space dowrfs and they are true space marines, Def 5, resilience 2 and shield 3. Basically on cover I was hitting on 5+, they nulify each succesful hit up to 3 times with their shield and I had no AP. But what was cool is the supression rule basically I could Blaze Away, hitting on 6 but each succesful hit gave them 1 supression token, los erige their shield, mobility, shooting and prepare them for the heavy guns. Lot if fun.

>I kind of prefer my miniature suppliers as old bloke cottage industries with shit websites, not these blogposting fuckboys who want to sell you real-world DLC.
Seconds that. Kickstarter is not my thing.

I guess they could slap all the extra rules into a big fat book?

It's this, really.
Their undead are great and some can stomach the Dwarfs or Orcs, but god damn if the Elves and Humans aren't terrible. And most people are still married to the "Game + Company's Models" idea

It still baffels me that people can't separate setting/rules from minis. It has to be autism or something.

People generally take the easier choice as a consumer. Especially people coming from a GW background.

I guess part of it is the official GW store policies conditioning people into a certain train of thought?

So, horde armies at the moment then?

Kinda, goblins are special in the sense that you have cheap hordes that allows you to unlock some big hitters like giants or mincer.

The deal is that hordes is good against a elite focus list, but if they have the right amount of shaft the hordes start to struggle as they can't get the sweet flanks. Its all about knowing the local meta and make a list that had just the right unit to cover your weakness.

It's more war trombone/mincer heavy lists with wizards and hordes used to unlock the rest.

Undead are a big seller.
Their models were loads better adn cheaper when Vampire Counts were a thing.

Also a boatload of cheap undead is a must for fantasy GMs.

At least that's why I bought my first army.

Pretty sure he meant the actual EoD minis. Those are GW TK.

Novrmber December kickstarter delivery target iirc, updated last week

So tactical armies like Trident Realms are bad against horde armies like Goblins?

Not necesarely, Trident Realm has probably the best anvil on the game, but against hordes you have lot of options.

River guards are going to be your to go flankers, with flying, throwing weapons, ensnare, vicious, pathfinder and you can even give them crushing strength 1.

Nokken is a great harasser, with vanguard and breath attack.

Tidal Swarm, your own cheap horde of height 0 (so you can shoot from behind them), ensnare and 30 attacks as a horde.

Trident Realm has lot of tools to fight different armies, a good solid faction overal.

I really like the heavy industrial look to the Ska- Veer-Myn units in Warpath.

It is a nice look. Better than rags.

Or it could be people who buy them because they're cheap or want to support Mantic.

So just how wildly out of date due to eratta is the Dead zone 2nd edition rulebook?

Quite a few tweaks... need that final version to come out soon.

>who want to sell you real-world DLC.

Sometimes, people forget you can resell physical things.

I would never buy an army just to support a hobby company just because I like them. I have enough minis in my backlog to paint. If they're pleasing to my eye I will however buy their products.

Vanguard campaign teaser is just out.

manticblog.com/2017/10/26/kings-war-vanguard-playing-campaign/

Maybe slightly too busy looking with those big magical bolts, but yeah, would make for a fine not-count-vampire character.

I believe that there is sadly some truth to be found in this.
One of my friends once genuinely believed that using non-GW spray paint on his space marines could melt them. Yes, MELT them.
I had to show him, by buying a black spraycan from a local drugstore and by undercoating my own miniatures with it, that this would not happen (and that, yes, he could stop being retarded as an excuse for only buying overpriced paints straight from his local GW).

Never underestimate some people's stupidity.

I bought some Ironwatch and canons from them. I like their looks, and wanted to support mantic even though I sadly can't find the time to game, or even to simply partake in the hobby lately.

Oh man. I have a serious boner for narrative gameplay and campaigns. I am glad that Mantic is focusing on it rather than making it more of a one off skirmish game.

I'm pretty sure I have seen this story before on Veeky Forums.

Might have been me.

Anyone know of bitz that would work to basically make my own Skulks, ideally with orky arms holding black-powder handguns? I do love the skulk models, but it's basically the only thing I'll be buying for orcs that ends up being expensive-ish. And in this case, expensive-ish is actually me being entitled about $2 for a mini. Bows'll work, but I would love some Empire-style handguns.

Fuck yes, everything about that gets me hyped. And Alpha Rules tomorrow? Holy shit.

so, if they are using Kickstarter, that means they have more stuff than just rules, right?

I'm hoping they'll use this campaign to release a lot of new models also usable in regular Kow.

It sounds like they intend for them to be usable in KoW and Dungeon Saga.

Absolutely. Between KoW, Dungeon Saga, and Vanguard, you're going to see a lot of interplay between miniatures. Also, consider how much they've been posting art of Nightstalkers, an army with zero models that are all but confirmed they'll be getting a warband out of this.

They have already said that they are going to be putting out some plastic and resin miniatures to complement the game. They are supposed to be more dynamically posed in order to suit a skirmish game, but are supposed to all be compatible with Kings of War as well. I am betting that said miniatures will match up to the art that they have been posting. The best part is that with so many companies putting out generic fantasy miniatures, it should be easy to cobble together a warband out of anything.

So, I like Tau in W40k. In such I am a scummy ranged only freak.

What is the closest in KOW or WP?

in KoW elves.
in WP asterian probably.

Fuck me, I love Asterians. They're everything I love about Necrons, Tau, and Eldar, wrapped up in the fluffy bundle of 12-years space elves guzzling Mountain Dew and shitting on humans in their VR CoD battlesuits.

Sorry, forgot to say no knife eared bastards. Got to have some standards.

Next closest armies?

No knife-ear bastards here, beep boop. At least planetside, boop.

Yeah, unlike 40k Warpath seems to understand that guns are actually good for killing stuff and thus basically everyone is good at the shooting thing.

Few models are knife ears as they mostly use robots. But the other shooty army is the GCPS, basically normal marines/imperial guard.

They've also got one of my favorite vehicles for Warpath, which also deploys their robots ala the the Multi-Troop Transports of battle droids in Star Wars. Racks on the back of the vehicle hold folding up drones which detach and drop into the battlefield while the Chroma lays down supporting fire.

Yeah, that guy in the middle...

And I see Mantic remain committed to upholding their unremarkably mediocre standard of sculpts.

Okay, then instead run Ten'ur Go as your HQ, and use Black Talons as your Command sources. Nothing's forcing you to take an Overseer or Kalyshi.

I asked this a few threads ago, what are these "toy armies" I've seen mentions of?

I mean, I can imagine it's T-Rexes stuck on to the correct sized unit base, but I've never seen one. Any links to threads or tournament reports?

In the previous thread I talked about using sugar for basing and making ground, these are the results of doing that shit.

Isn't perfect, and more hassle than buying stuffs, but it can do look good. I need to do highligths on the grass and then add other type of foliage.

Won't lie user, that sounds like a truly terrible idea. Why not go to a hardware store and ask if you can scoop up the sawdust from their woodcutting department. Mix it up with paint and water, tah dah

I'm incredible lazy and this work.

Sugar?

Unless you super seal it, that's going to get ganky.

Just get a bag of children's sandpit sand.

Then don't use that model?

Problem solved.

...

Anyone got a deadzone pdf?

I have never played a game yet, but it seems sweet and a I a ton of minis. Here is the question though does this army suck? If so how do I make it not shit.

...

Seconding this. I've got a hard copy, and even though I bought it for a good price used, it's still essentially worthless considering how much has changed.

Check here for more Undead info:
mantic.club/forum/kings-of-war/undead

Deadzone books, all of them:
mediafire.com/folder/woayb5yb9fke1/deadzone

Add it to the next OP.

Thanks

Looks like a solid list to me. Some recommendations I would make is that: zombie hordes and legions go really well with hammer of measured force, its a magic item that make you always wound on a 4+ regardless of modifiers. Ghouls are tricky as a regiment, because they don't really gain that many extra attacks and their Nerve is still low as a regiment which mean that any wound could be their end; but on the other hand they don't need to be pushed around which mean they are quite independant; personally I prefer them as troop because you are paying way less for a good amount of extra attacks on the flanks, you could have them behind the zombie horde and move them to the sides, still looking at the enemy unit infront of the zombie horde and let the zombie horde charge with a surge, if that unit is still in play next turn and you played your positioning well, you could move the ghouls to a flank charge easily and they cost nothing as a troop so losing one means nothing.

And I would say your list has a good amount of surge, so it looks quite good. Its gonna be all about how you use it.

Oh yeah I forgot, lighting bolt is gonna do almost nothing in the game, probably on the final turns, because most of the time your necromancers are going to be puching your units with surge and once the units get into combat you are going to be unable to use lightning bolt. My advise is to change it for bane chant or if you are playing CoK rules, Soul Drain.

Thanks!

Got these with last years crazy box. While not painted or assembled they should give you some idea of what they're like.

Oh, nice. Thanks.

Any enforcer players out there know if the ajax has deadzone rules? I don't see them in the rulebook or the infestation expansion.

Man, I've got hundreds of dollars of Warpath that're sliding off of my backlog onto my table to finally get handled. And now, the trouble of coming up with schemes I like. I'm thinking Asterians in black with glowing blue highlights, GCPS as Doomguy, Marauders as inverted Doomguy (Red with Green instead of Green with Red), and Plague as sickly white skin and green fatigues on the 3rd Gens and zombies, probably with either bloody Khornish or pustulant Nurgle highlights. Want the Plague to build off of the GCPS since it'll be a botched black site lab of that Corporation that's been infected.

It's in Nexus Psi if I remember.

Just get plastic rod and make blunderbusses. Any human scale gun will looks pretty weedy in an orcs hands. Alternatively if you can get your hands on them the guns from the Irondrake sprue might work.

Weedy would actually be somewhat preferred. I mean, these are cowardly skulks we're talkin' about who've looted human handguns.

Are the herd the next plastic army for KoW I saw some renders on Facebook and was confused.

I could see them getting that mystery slot in Vanguard.

Only toy unit I've seen was a stampede made of miniature toy dinosaurs, repainted.

It looked awesome

As long as you can clearly see what the unit is that's fine with me.

VANGUARD ALPHA RULES

GRAB 'EM WHILE THEY'RE HOT

dropbox.com/s/ewhudffg0qrtvpg/VANGUARD - ALPHA RULES OCT 27.zip?dl=0

Crap, already? I'm still at work, can't view them now...

>uses equipment cards instead of WYSIWYG
This I like. A lot.