Arguing about races

>arguing about races

It's classes that are important.

Why does one being important disqualify the other from being relevant? Everything you choose says something about your character and will influence who they are in the game.

While arguably true, we've argued the caster vs. martial thing to death already.

Back to Veeky Forums you go Marx, you are not an elf.

Class matters more to the individual, but race matters more to the setting, as it's by and large representative of what groups are and aren't present in "civilization" in the world.

That's a funny way of saying race-as-class is superior

The only argument that matters is darkvision vs bonus feat.

What about barbarian vs. ranger?
Or monk vs. ninja?
Or wizard vs. cleric?

This is actually entirely dependant on setting. It is entirely possible to have a setting where class matters far more than race.

But OP doesn't give a shit and just wants more /pol/ threads on Veeky Forums.

I think it's time to start a campaign on /qa/ to have them add a 'reason' listing on the report thing just so we can say "pol bait ion Veeky Forums".

Well, this thread could at least vaguely lead to something interesting. I've had to hide and report a good few others today that were way worse.

It also really puts paid to the fucking apologists who were going on about the /pol/ boogeyman a few months back.

>Arguing about races and classes.
Exaltations are what's important.

I am the OP. While the obvious Marx joke was intentional, I'm legitimately weirded out by how much Veeky Forums argues about character races when they only constitute a very small portion of the chatacter's ultimate identity. Race affects immediate appearance more than anything else, and that's literally a surface level consideration.

Race also says a lot about cultural background in a majority of settings, along with certain preconceptions about your character that they might live up to or subvert. Race, in many ways, establishes a great deal of what they are. Class, in turn, establishes what they do. But your choices of Who they are is what fundamentally defines them as a character. How you interpret all the disparate elements that make them up into a consistent character is, in the end, what really matters.

>races aren't important

Fucking SJWs amirite?

Race and culture are a part of your character and offer chances for spice and flavor, but the meat of the character is their class. The class is really the here and now, while the rest tends to be largely tied to the character's past and often requires a fair amount of effort to be made relevant.

Class contributes heavily to defining the character's cultural background as well, as well as their personal history. It's not just what they do, it's really who they are, and who they're going to be as far as most campaigns are concerned.

I'm going to multiclass into every class and no one can stop me

Too specific to a single game for most people's autism.

This nigga knows where it's at.

I'd entirely disagree with that. A class defines a characters capabilities, and it'll have some effect on how they're percieved. But who they are, and how you interpret various things isn't reliant on the class you chose.

Honestly, I'd say Class and Race are about equally important, and that neither is a definitive part of who your character is as a person, merely contributing elements.

It's like real life OP. Class matters a lot more then Race, but it does still effect you.

Some race class combos are simply more optimised.

If you get +1 or -1 to ability stat that's relevant that makes a relatively massive difference early on.

It's a difference that shrinks and you level but it's still a flat modifier. An elf wizard at level 24 have more intelligence than the Half Orc.

Your character's class largely determines their mechanical abilities, though there may be a bit of backstory to go with.
Race, however, affects both your character's mechanical abilities (if weakly) and their presence in the RP, and since there exist systems where race exists but class doesn't, you get much more threads about races in general than classes.

When you play, most thoughts and considerations are centered around class. Not entirely, but the overwhelming majority, including how you act and what makes you act.

Even what you eat is more dependant on class than race. There are those images that have circulated on thia board of rations by race, but rations by class would make more sense, with nature-oriented classes eating things like wild vegetables, wizards chowing on flavorless food bricks that they flavor with presditigitation, and thieves eating whatever the rest of the party is eating.

At this point I just have no idea what you're talking about. No group I have ever played with has treated Class as that important in terms of characterisation. Two different characters of the same race and class can still be extremely fucking different without that much effort.

>It's a difference that shrinks and you level

On that note, you know how "XP to level" inflation rates allow a level one character to play catch up with the rest of the party's level (well ideal not that it ever happens)

Is there any system that handles ability modifies in similar "levels", a background bonus at level one doesn't help you *at all* at level 20. Only get that far.

It's not clear what exactly you mean.

So what should we argue about then?
Should we just start arguing on whether hempen rope or silk rope is better?

Silk rope is always better, unless you're a sadist and like making her wrists and ankles itch like hell. and you sure as hell don't use shibari with anything but silk. Polyester has no give.

Races are classes.

I prefer hempen rope, because the only pussy I'm able to slay are various cat monsters.

>Year of our Lord 2017
>Using class based systems

Look we all have that one guy he thinks a halfing barbarian is good idea (which it actually is in 5e if you remember to use lucky but not so in previous edition)

As soon as the novelty wears off all you're left with a crappy build understanding why is the Frodo Baggins Conan crossover failed.

Some combos simply aren't that optimised. There's a reason people don't add milk to green tea, or buy orange favoured toothpaste.

It's good to think outside the box but sometimes what's outside the box is full of sharks and spiders

It may be a difference in experiences, but the groups I play with tend to rely on actions to define their characters, in a "show-not-tell fashion," and that makes class tip the scales heavily in prominence.

An elf wizard has more in common with a human wizard than an elf barbarian. They might even have more in common with a human wizard than an elf sorcerer or cleric, because while elves share things like lifespan and a taste for leaf-motifs, wizards share an understanding of the importance of study and intelligence, a taste for robes, and the inevitable temptation of turning into a lich, albeit at drastically different ages.

I'm not saying class is the end-all-be-all, but it's definitely the most important consideration when making and playing a character. Race often even comes as an afterthought after selecting a class.

>not chains

That just sounds really weird to me. In my experience, two characters being of the class in no way implies they'll necessarily have more in common. They might, but the same capabilities can still arise from a huge number of different sources, and people can have conflicting ideas about what those capabilities are or how they can be used. That very similar groups conflict more than very different ones is a phenomena very often seen, after all.

I agree that actions can define a character just as much as words, but the actions your character can take are only somewhat influenced by their choice of class, and even then it only defines what they have access to, not how they use them.

Orc Power!

Conqueror the Humans!
Stomp the Dwarves!
breed[\spoiler] the Elves!
Forget the Halflings even exist!

But orange toothpaste is great, and I add butter to green tea.

Orange juice and toothpaste is a terrible combo though, but that's because of a specific chemical reaction.

Some sort of diminishing returns so starting bonuses and feats are eventually replaced with the level advancement.

Think of it this way. If you jog every morning before morning, and then went to do an intensive eight week Bootcamp training you're probably going to start off better than the other guys there who didn't. But you're still gonna be roughly at the same level of fitness at the end of it. If they all get +10 to Con you're not gonna get +12 because you had a +2 at the start. but it doesn't stack.

Basically the opposite of 3.5 (have your level 20 character planned out at level one) approach.

3.5 does already represent what you're saying though, the +2 is a smaller portion of the overall, and (although this is even more true with 4e) the things you pick at the beginning are weaker so they matter less later.

Why aren't elves genocidal nazi's in every scneario?

Why don't they topple governments by existing in human lands. They live forever and can become the 1% by working an entry level job and waiting.

Seriously the immortality makes them entre a whole new realm of existance other races wouldn't under stand. that would make them smug and superior. hop skip and a jump from genocide

>Why aren't elves genocidal nazi's in every scneario?
Because that would get boring and stale REALLY quick.

Yeah but you still have a 10% increase. The difference is diminished as your level but it never equalise.

A couple of points will still regularly means if you succeed or fail any given check.

>10%
In the stat. But most of the things it's used for (skills, and depending on the stat could be attack rolls or HP or something) scale with level in other ways. The percent increase still exists, but it gets much smaller in practice.

Sounds like ELF talk to me, boy!

That is true but still to an extent. You do get less of a benefit as you go on, but still had a numerical benefit. Especially when they bring in the concept of bounded accuracy. You're stuck to the D20 order of magnitude.

Compare that the way XP scales where you only actually get the benefits when you level and the order of magnitude of that increases massively. Starting out with more does become irrelevant. You've gone from 10 XP making the difference to 10,000.

Of course I'm not saying that actually should do that. It would be a pain to implement. But could have the ability score effective your modilfer less past 20 or something.

>You do get less of a benefit as you go on, but still had a numerical benefit.
That's literally how "diminishing returns" works.

You're not actually getting diminishing returns though, you're just getting *relative* diminishing returns.

A +2 is still a +2 just as much at level one as it is level 20. (or a +1 if we are just talking about moden ability score modifies) it's an constant incremental bonus which affects your probability at any given task from start to finish.

Previous editions didn't actually do the every even number past 10 is a +1 however. The score in each stat effected it's modilfer and derived stat at totally different value and rates to each other.

A +4 in Str could mean going from having no damage bonus at all to a +4.

Was going to post this desu senpai

Fun is most important.

Races are much more of a political statement, which is what Veeky Forums wants to argue about these days.

SHIT TIER
>Class-based systems

GOOD TIER
>Point-based systems

MASTER TIER
>Archetype-based systems

ASCENDED TIER
>Narrative games that eschew the traditional paradigm of one character per player

But you choose race first, and certain races are better suited to certain classes.
Enjoy your dwarf sorcerer and tiefling barbarian

I think it's mostly because it's a lot easier to ask the question "how does [race] fit into the world" as opposed to "how does [class] fit into the world", particularly because the latter involves a lot of distinction between power scales of PCs and NPCs depending on system. Assuming D&D then PC's have classes, while NPCs and other characters have "statblocks".
While an interesting discussion, the argument very quickly deteriorates when people feel the need to separate "wizard" as a player to "magic user" as an NPC and the distinction therefore in the world in their roles (if there are any) beyond "Wizard" is a PC class, so it gains strength faster than NPCs in order to level up. NPCs only get stronger as the plot demands.
An interesting question to ask would probably be to all the GMs "when do you use player classes for an NPC or monster?" just to get an idea of why most people do it.

Begone free former, back to the forums with thee

if you play anything other than a human or elf im going to assume youre going to play a female character and try to insert your fetish into the game

You're a retard then
>durr fantasy roleplaying where I can be what I want
>better pick the most human like classes!

>56056765
>human like classes

If you are a combat oriented mongrel that may be.
Play a jew in 1940's germany and see how it goes.

t. plays furrys or traps

>what are dwarves?
>what are gnomes?
>what are half-orcs?

Its both.

Why do you need 20 versions of elves with 10 special snowflake abilities each

Why do you need 20 versions of wizards with 10 special snowflake abilities each

Why can't you just get your handful of racial gimmicks and your base class which you can build in millions of different ways and be happy.

Its an RPG not a wargame.

Almost none of those exists as a class in any game I play. In fact most games I play don't have classes, but the fighter vs caster dicotomy still exists.

I can't hear you over the sound of my awesome Forge-made games

>everyone knows not to trust an elf
>trusts a rogue

I swear you fucking retards do this all the time.

>>everyone knows not to trust an elf
What setting and system?

>Arguing about either of them

It's pic related you should do

>you're left with a crappy build
Oh look, it's the "muh min-maxing" argument, steeming from playing poorly designed game that either you abuse, or is unplayable.

That image is a pointless piece of shit, as are you.

If it's something that doesn't really affect your character mechanically, you might as well just treat it as flavor text, which begs the question, why are you arguing over flavortext?

Thanks for the (you)

Race plays a bigger role in a roleplay aspect. If you play a drow no one gives a fuck that you are a ranger or rouge.

>Using a longsword
>When you could be part of the greatsword master race

>you're just getting *relative* diminishing returns.
AKA diminishing returns.

>SHIT TIER
>>Class-based systems
>MASTER TIER
>>Class-based systems with a coat of paint
Cool story famalam.

I wish more games had prominent classes with a certain aesthetic associated with them.

something like Earthdawn or Final fantasy tactics.
Classes that are iconoc and you KNOW when you look at a guy what class he is.
In earthdawn classes are mythical callings and not just a character archetype.

I hate this newfangled idea of classless characters. I love a strong class theme.

That beeing said youre a faggot, classes and races are both important for different reasons.

SHIT TIER
>Narrative based "games"

AWFULL TiER
>Point buy

GOOD TIER
>Class based System

GOD TIER
>Classes, Races and Alignments are super restrictive and tied into the fluff

Is Ribbon still in hell?

>I have no taste and I must post

She got out a long time ago.

But she was there like twice

People play things other than human fighter? How do you get all the feats you need then?

Touching Marcille's hair while she sleeps!

I like the "career tree" format that sort of of a hybrid of Class and point.

Where being a wizard or fighter sort of more just your actually day job or background. You'll get some related bonuses and skills as you go on, and changing from one to the other is a perfectly valid choice.

It offer a nice balance between structure and customisation, and feels a lot more organic then simply buying abilities or leaving in them.

change from to the other

Let's pour some kerosene on this:
Prestige Classes, which are best and why?

>mah (((porkey))) wants racial conflict
>muh class warfare
Back to leftypol

Presdigitation can flavor things?

The best are functionally weak but mechanically interesting and flavorful prestige classes players would never pick but DMs want to use for NPCs.

Stuff like the Planeshifter, Cancer Mage, or Candle Caster, and not stuff like Deepwood Sniper or Frenzied Berserker.