Previous Thread: A thread for discussing the 'Star Trek' franchise and its various tabletop adaptations.
Possible topics include Modiphius' new rpg 'Star Trek Adventures', WizKids miniatures game 'Star Trek: Attack Wing', and Gale Force Nine's board game 'Star Trek: Ascendancy', as well as the previous rpgs produced by FASA, Last Unicorn Games and Decipher, the Starfleet Battles Universe, and the Star Trek universe in general.
Reminder that "logic" is simply using factual information to reach a conclusion unaffected by emotion or other unreal factors, and therefore Vulcans will disagree wildly with each other based on what information they have and how much they value said information, like any other species.
Aaron Baker
Vulcan Logic is simply, by your and my estimation, the name Vulcans give to their own self-interested impulses. You could replace "Logic" with "Id" and the effect would nearly always be the same.
Jose Perez
This. As a bonus, Vulcans still have emotions, and can feel strongly about something even if they make great pains to suppress it. For example, the question of unification:
>Romulans are our kin >they are as capable of rationality as we are >therefore we should reunite with them and set aside old grudges for the sake of peace
On the other hand:
>Romulans are our kin >however, they are duplicitous and irrational >therefore they cannot be trusted, and attempts at reunification are doomed to failure
Maybe, if Id were a real thing and not made up hogwash from the turn of the last century.
Hunter Wood
>Maybe, if Id were a real thing and not made up hogwash from the turn of the last century. That's why I'm saying it's stupid. The way Vulcan logic is applied is often purely in self-service. i.e. Chulak killing randos because "logic demands it" to and Vorrik trying to justify rape as logical. The problem isn't inherently with a society that upholds logical reasoning, but with writers applying the word logic to every Vulcan action like a bumper sticker.
Angel Reed
Vulcan logic only looks stupid from the outside.
The pointless rituals and odd nonsensical behaviors for them is extremely logical.
Each and every one of them is a ticking time bomb of murder and rape held in check by a code of behavior and funny little rituals. Do the rituals themselves make sense? Nope, not very.
Does the reason for doing them make sense? Yes. Because time and again we have seen what happens when they stop.
Austin Parker
Chulak was mentally ill. Vulcans are great at suppressing emotion, but ill equipped to process it when they find that they cannot deal with it. His "solution" to dealing with it was to kill other people.
Vorrik... Vorrik was on VOY, and this is the same show that had Seven squatting on tables, eating raw meat because apparently, that's what the Klingon possessing her wanted to do. Y'know, act like an animal instead of as a glorious bastard.
Bad writing is just bad writing. Mostly Vulcans make sense. They find their strong passions troubling, and have tried to impose a sort of peace through rationality on their culture. It occasionally requires outlets (such as the silly rituals and strange hats). It's not perfect because they're not perfect, and it doesn't remove the biological factor that made them irrational warmongers in the first place.
Good writers take that into account. Bad writers go with "rape is logical" rather than "pon farr is making me insane and may kill me".
Easton Perry
I have no problem with their whole religious shtick, its everything else I have an issue with. >We make art >why >we design out ships to be aesthetically pleaseing >why >we intentionally hated a group of people in our society for centuries cause they did stuff the rest of couldn't >why
David White
Even that is questionable, under absolute(inherently subjective) logic. The Romulans seems to have done away with the ritualism of Vulcan identity without becoming rape/murder monsters. We know from numerous interaction that they are merely people operating within an incredibly oppressive regime. Would it not be logical to suggest that the Romulans have created a more enduring society with a more stable emotional baseline? Would it not then be logical to assert that the Romulan solution whatever it was, is superior and preferable to the emotional suppression of Vulcans?
Benjamin Rodriguez
In 'Prime Factors' Tuvok justifies stealing a way home by telling Janeway
>You made it clear that your highest goal was to get the crew home. But in this instance, your standards would not let you violate Sikarian law. Someone had to spare you the ethical dilemma.
To which she replies
>You can use logic to justify almost anything. That's its power and its flaw. From now on, bring your logic to me.
>Because time and again we have seen what happens when they stop.
And I like what I see.
Carson Smith
ROmulans have channelld their rape+murder boner in another direction.
Them vs Us mentality turned up to 11 + all of the paranoia.
Carter Reyes
would be pretty cool, but CBS and friends seem more interested in pushing the overall poorly designed Discovery stuff. Like literally all the money went into making things flashy, their writers are terribly and their designs aren't even cohesive. Only part of the discovery set that's salvagable is the boots.
Ian Cox
Debatable. Would that same state not apply to American/Soviet sentiment from the 60's onwards? If not earlier? In the episode "Defector" we see a Romulan who's values reflect an interest in protecting the home and family he loves. He hates the Federation, so much so that once the trap has been sprung he opts to commit suicide rather than availing his enemies of his knowledge, but he was still willing to cooperate with them to save his people from a war he deemed unjust. We see further evidence of this very compassionate Romulan temperament from Spocks-dad(Rihan Edition) and Archer's Admiral Buddy(Rihan Edition). I think it unfair to paint the Romulans as inherently paranoid when we know from our own history that it is all to easy to find yourself under the thumb of a police state,, contrary to your own values.
Andrew Moore
forgot muh uniform
Christopher Russell
Art is a cultural expression and since Vulcans can feel things, however suppressed, it makes sense that those feelings would be expressed through art. Vulcan adoption of Surak's particular brand of logic wouldn't suddenly make the Vulcans lose their sense of aesthetics. As far as the idiotic "we hate mind melders" (I assume that's what you're talking about, but it could also be the exodus of the Romulans) thing, that's on ENT. They were trying to create a situation where the Vulcans were divided about some things in their culture, and that's what the writers went for I guess. I've said it before, but it bears repeating that it doesn't make much sense that Surak's mind melding abilities would just be forgotten over time.
As for the Romulans... their solution was paranoia and treachery. This is a culture that has zero problems with killing civilian targets (as evidenced by the attack on the colony that the Enterprise-C defended to her destruction, as well as the colony Worf was living on as a child), murdering superiors to get ahead politically, and is a police state that manages to make the Cardassians blush. Whether that's a result of their biology getting the better of them or just how the political regime turned out after the exodus from Vulcan, we don't really know.
It's actually a shame how little we know about the Romulans and what makes them tick. They might have pon farr for all we know. They might not. It's never been talked about.
Luis Ramirez
It's possible that the Romulans bred out their super emotions over time (possibly losing their mindmeld psychic powers with them)
Tyler Russell
>not having a 90%+ one species crew with token aliens to meet your diversity quota
If the humans can do it why can't other species
Jackson Wright
>They might have pon farr for all we know. They might not. It's never been talked about. Given what we've seen of the promiscuity of Romulans, i believe it would be fair to claim they don't experience pon farr. The pon farr seems to be a Surakian invention, and seeing as Romulan's reject everything about Surak's teachings, I can't see them embracing it.
Bentley Turner
>you will never go on away mission with your Andorian bestie and Vulcan CO that's preachy but ultimately a good person >you will never form a bond through exploration that transcends race and family with your crewmates
Why even continue being a corporeal lifeform?
Grayson Martin
I don't think it has to do with Surakian teachings. In TOS, it's spelled out pretty clearly that it's a biological urge, and if it isn't fulfilled, Spock will die. Vulcans don't like to discuss it because it's an embarrassing breach of their self control, a biological betrayal if you will.
It's still entirely possible that Romulans don't experience it, but if they don't, there should be a reason. They've only been separated from Vulcans for 3,000 years. I do hasten to add that there are other "Vulcanian" species in the galaxy, and it's possible that the Romulans are mixed.
There's some evidence that there was a starfaring proto-Vulcan culture as well.
You know what’s funny? That bullshit the Discovery showrunner said about “adding depth to the Klingons because they’ve always been villains” more or less would be an accurate statement if instead of “Klingons” he said “Romulans”. Close to everything we know about Romulans pretty much paints them as villains ruled by villainous traits, almost without exception. The times they work with others are limited to situations where it’s clearly in their own immediate self-interest to do so, and even then they’re paranoid and suspicious.
Xavier Gray
The Romulans have been criminally underused, and yeah, the STD showrunner's bullshit would apply to them more than it would the Klingons who we've seen as antagonists and protagonists. We know more about Klingon religious beliefs and history than we do about nearly any other species except the Vulcans maybe.
But, how can we expect the guys in charge of STD to have waded through all that dated 60s-90s space opera.
Levi Young
>Adding depths to Klingons They are now cannibalistic space lizards with broken teeth
Cameron Rodriguez
Just had an interesting thought about pon farr. What if it's really about population control? Vulcan as we know it is hardly arable. I'm comfortable assuming it became like this partially as a result of their global thermonuclear war. With the land having very little agricultural potential there would be a hard limit on the size of the Vulcan population before you'd have problems like famine, and eventually war. Pon farr was thus instituted as a method of population control. Couples could only produce one child every 7 years keeping population growth in check. The enforced gap also makes it so that births come steadily during a Vulcan woman's lifetime rather than all being clustered in one point. This helps smooth out the population distribution and prevents something like a 'baby boom' from occurring. It was simply a 'logical' way of keeping the population steady in the face of scarce resources.
The fun thing about biology is that in the 24th century it can be modified. The Federation has strict bans on genetic engineering but we don't really know that anyone else does. It's possible (though unlikely DESU) that Romulans are a designer species. Hell, maybe they even added the forehead ridges deliberately between Undiscovered Country and TNG in order to differentiate themselves from Vulcans.
Is it bad that I want to see a society like the one depicted in Eclipse Phase in Star Trek now?
I'm really glad they didn't use Romulans though because I'm 100% sure they've have fucked it up and then I'd be really pissed because I actually like Romulans. They should have just made a new alien race and left the established ones alone.
Hunter Torres
They couldn't have used Romulans, no one knew what they looked like until that one TOS episode
Jason Evans
I somehow doubt that would have stopped the Discovery writers.
Camden Ross
>pon farr as population control
It's possible. I don't think Vulcans have the same bias against genetic engineering that humans do. It's implied in ENT that Vulcan/human children would need some form of genetic engineering just to be viable, so Spock may be genetically engineered to some extent.
>Romulan genetic engineering
Also possible.
>transhumanism in Trek
Eh. Trek seems to take the idea that transhumanism is bad and runs with it. Most examples of transhumanism are painted in a bad light (Khan, the "broken" genetically engineered group Bashir worked with, the Borth, etc.).
I'd also be pissed if they had used the Romulans because they'd have bungled it. Like they're now bungling the Klingons.
It didn't stop them from featuring them in ENT. I'm willing to bet that if STD's writers had chosen to go with the Romulans, then we'd be bitching about "Balance of Terror" and still being told "STFU nerds".
Can we all just agree that Vulcans, Romulans, and their cousins are cool? 'Cause I really do think we're pretty much all on the same page.
Isaac Walker
>Can we all just agree that Vulcans, Romulans, and their cousins are cool? 'Cause I really do think we're pretty much all on the same page. Oh, of course, I love the notion of a species that has already spread itself to the stars before reforming and fracturing. What we're arguing about is purely the minutia of how and why they do what they do. Most of it is conjecture until it's shown on screen.
Jason Watson
>Eh. Trek seems to take the idea that transhumanism is bad and runs with it. Most examples of transhumanism are painted in a bad light (Khan, the "broken" genetically engineered group Bashir worked with, the Borth, etc.).
Borth? Anyway, I was envisioning a more nuanced take than before and preferably with a non-Federation species. I think there are some really interesting explorations of what it means to be a person without painting one side as obviously right or wrong, or necessarily inducing a change in the Federation's stance on the matter.
Jose Flores
>Borth? Probably some funny autocorrect glitch about Borg.
Leo Fisher
I don't see the arguing as a bad thing. I like arguing about Trek on /stg/.
>borth
Looks like I'm peppering my posts with more typos than usual. Should be "Borg".
Trek could use a little more examination into transhuman ideas. The Binars would be an interesting example - and the Vulcan notion of the katra has all kinds of fun, potentially out there applications.
Can you imagine, for the sake of discussion, a Vulcan who decides to clone himself and transfer his katra to many clones, who then gather at some appointed time in the future and update a receptical of some kind with their individual experiences that they have had, which they then share among themselves and go out to repeat the process?
Or say, a Vulcan who is a form of psychic vampire, draining the katra from others and/or stealing their bodies to keep from being discovered and to live as long as possible.
I don't recall any species off the top of my head (aside from the Founders) who are essentially biowizards, but it would be a neat thing to explore. I wouldn't want a repeat of the Vong though. Never liked them. I'm thinking more like the Yilane from Harry Harrison's Eden series.
Adam Hall
>It's implied in ENT that Vulcan/human children would need some form of genetic engineering just to be viable, so Spock may be genetically engineered to some extent. That's explicit in the TOS writer's guide and the novelization of "Journey to Babel". Not Alpha, but close enough for pretty much everyone. Even Ford and Fontana agreed on that one.
Although Saavik and Spock's kid might have had some weird moments if they hadn't cut the "I'm preggers" line from STIV. Son of Vulcan nobility, quarter Romulan, quarter Human, half-Vulcan, all mess. You want an example for your Unification propaganda? Whoooo doggies. Spock Unified the SHIT out of that pussy.
Colton Morales
Well, there's a big nail in the "Ash is Voq" theory; they're confirmed to be played by completely different actors. twitter.com/RealJavidIqbal
Henry Green
...
Huh.
Henry Campbell
What a compelling and really real person.
James Moore
I'm convinced. My new theory is that Lorca is Ash from the future.
Noah Davis
I need a list of humerous episodes, across all the trek series. I'm trying to convince a close friend to give star trek a chance and I Know she's easily won over by situational humour.
Sebastian Gonzalez
"The Trouble with Tribbles" is king.
Jonathan Long
Trials and Tribble-ations was really funny, but I'm not sure it would be funny to someone who wasn't in on the joke. I'd say ToS is probably your best bet for funny episodes, but I'm not well versed in the series to point any out.
Sebastian Hughes
Catspaw if you want something so bad it's funny
Easton Price
Basically any TAS episode. Especially that one with Spock summoning Satan.
Wyatt Stewart
Isn't it a little disingenuous to sell someone on Trek with the joke episodes when the vast majority of the shows aren't like that?
Leo Perry
I got her into SG1 the same way. I guess she finds it easier to bond with characters once she already likes them.
Mason Roberts
Yeah, but SG1 was constantly funny, right down to its core. Star Trek isn't really the same I feel.
Xavier Brown
May as well give it a shot anyway. If it ends up not working then I've lost very little.
Nicholas Perry
TOS, Trouble with Tribbles is classic funny one it even has serious plot going on but it is repeatedly buried (in once scene literally) under fluffy little balls of joy that are Tribbles.
And then show him the DS9, Trials and Tribble-ations that looks on the previous episode from the viewpoint of accidental time travellers with more Tribbles and Sisko going all fanboy glee at meeting his hero Kirk.
TNG: I would say Ménage à Troi just for the scene where Picard has to do love poem towards Lwaxana Troi.
Qpid, it's really funny take on Robin hood and to see how Merry Man Worf really is.
DS9: Almost all of the episodes dealing with Ferengis tend to be rather funny, just avoid Profit and Lace.
Doctor Bashir, I presume, it more of serious tone holostory but some of the scenes in it are really funny, Sisko and Kira are really memorable ones as is the way Bashir deals with O'Brians assasin character.
Voyager: Bride of Chaotica! is really funny oneshot holostory
Jace Bell
Tinker Tenor Doctor Spy has both funny and heartwarming.
Josiah Young
And crap I got wrong one Doctor Bashir I presume is more serious story Our Man Bashir is the one where DS9 crew get stuck on holodeck spy novel.
Gavin Wilson
A Fistful of Datas from TNG is quite humorous.
Nicholas Howard
>Because time and again we have seen what happens when they stop.
Most of the Vulcans aboard the Vahklas (ENT "Fusion") seemed like decent people, with only Tolaris standing out as an asshole rapist. But the Vahklas' captain, Tavin, seems fine, and the only thing Kov did wrong in the episode was a social faux pas ("Ah! You mean sex!"), not turn into a murder-rape monster.
Jace Davis
TOS' "A Piece of the Action" ("The One With The Gangster Planet") is hilarious, and my favorite Star Trek episode ever.
Jonathan Howard
You know that picture should be posted daily to the STD threads in /tv/ for the just how seriously everything in that series is taken.
Chase Rivera
Oh god, I've never been to the /tv/ threads. Are they actually saying STD is good over there?
Noah Gutierrez
Don't ever wonder about /tv/. That way madness lies.
Alexander Richardson
a lot of people new to trek think its good. Somehow. Despite being poorly written, and frankly garish in design.
But /tv/ has a long history of being absurdly contrarian. If its bad, they think its good.
Alexander Mitchell
I think they despise as much as we do, they are just memeing.
Gabriel Barnes
The federation makes no sense.
Benjamin Hernandez
It's Trek. The longer you look at it the less sense it makes.
Michael Reed
What did it do this time?
Hunter Murphy
Eliminated money.
Nathaniel Wilson
I personally believe what they did was change its name into something like "Federation labor awards" which they can use in government owned stores where they are sold bread in one store, butter in the other and milk in the third store.
Josiah Richardson
That ones easy to deal with if you just assume they have non-market based rationing (as is alluded to several times in the shows).
Michael Campbell
DS9 Episode "In the Cards" addresses this very well.
Joshua Thompson
Could you remind me what they did there?
Ethan Roberts
Basically Jake wants to buy Sisko a baseball card but since he has no money he basically forces Nog to try and buy it for him. It has a good conversation about how Jake can't really describe their own "non currency" system.
Christopher Jackson
That would require willingly going to /tv/, which is not something I want to do.
A braver soul than I is welcome to, though.
Elijah Gray
So they just make a joke of it?
Lincoln Lee
Yeah, they're not addressing it but they are lampooning it. Elsewhere in DS9 and Voyager you hear about the use of various forms of rations which I think is the real answer to distributing scarce resources in the Federation.
Connor Robinson
Money is irrelevant when there are replicators to make whatever you want, enough colony planets that anyone can have a mansion on a pristine landscape if they want, and enough mining planets to make the above possible without issues. It only breaks down when dealing with non-Federation cultures when there isn't an agreed transaction system in place.
Connor King
Counterpoint: services jobs still have scarcity since the federation doesn't make extensive use of robots.
How are services paid for? How are non replicatable goods paid for? How is energy which is required for the replicators to run paid for?
Wyatt Cruz
None of those are relevant when it comes to the everyday person doing their job and therefore are likely regulated by government bureaucracy. Yes, the Federation is effectively state socialism and you can comment on how it's unrealistic that such a widespread bureaucracy can function with massive efficiency issues, but It Just Does.
Adrian Lewis
Remember the fundamental rule of society;
There's no such thing as a free lunch
Xavier Long
How does the federation get people to be doctors or plumbers though? If the answer is compulsion, doesn't that take away from the optimistic message of the show?
Dominic Flores
Well remember what the country doctor McKoy said in first star trek movie? "I was drafted!"
Andrew Davis
The idea is that people ultimately choose careers they want. Doctors are people who want to be doctors. Plumbers (or the 24th century equivalent) are either people who legitimately like working with their hands (those people exist in real life!) or are doing a maintenance job as part of career progression to eventually get a higher position in a relevant career. For example, it might be mandated to work a trade before becoming an engineer in that trade, under the logic that it's easier to design a thing if you already have hands-on experience with how those things work. You could consider it apprenticeships on a mass scale. It's like Starfleet how ensigns scrub power conduits and do other maintenance before they can eventually work their way up to being chief engineers.
Of course that's just headcanon but so is this entire conversation.
Owen Baker
That's dark. So the principal enlightenment that humanity underwent that enables federation society.
That enlightened ideal is that freedom is overrated?
Noah James
The Federation doesn't have to force anyone to do anything. Some people actually like being plumbers, and certainly there's an appeal to being a doctor and helping people.
Xavier Foster
I agree with your idea that people do what they want. The problem with your analysis is that you assume people will want to do the jobs they want at the right ratio for society.
That isn't the case today. We have nursing shortages, stem teacher shortages, etc. All under a system with financial rewards for doing harder work. If you remove the rewards, the problem gets worse.
Logan Myers
If you think late-stage capitalism is in any way, shape or form efficient then you're just as delusional as the people who think present-day communism will work.
At any rate, the society of the Federation is not the same as the society of present-day Earth, both in culture and tech level. The Federation has no problem using artificial means to fill in the gaps provided they're non-sentient. You don't need someone to run a school when you can just program a holodeck to do it, people teach because they want to teach and 24th century tech fills in any gaps. Again, author fiat is acknowledged in that it's never acknowledged how this stuff works, just that it does and there's no problems outside of emergency situations.
Adam Morales
I think late stage capitalism is inefficient because of government enforced oligarchy. It seems odd to me that adding more government would make it more efficient, when that hasn't been the case ever.
To supplement your point, Federation culture is fundamentally unlike ours in that people are much more self-motivated and driven to self-improvement. It is normal for people to have many hobbies, enjoy their job, and want to learn and improve. This is just how things *are* in the Federation, for whatever reason.
Thomas Gutierrez
If Feddies are fighting for the greater good, then where are all the Federation suicide bombers? >inb4 photon torpedos guidance system is a redshirt Well no wonder they were able to use one as a casket for Spock at the end of the wrath of Khan.
Landon Martin
McCoy wasn't drafted into Starfleet to begin with, he was reactivated (using "a little known, and seldom used, reserve activation clause") because Kirk wanted to get the band back together. And he obviously liked it well enough because he stayed in Starfleet long enough to be an Admiral.
Xavier Bennett
Remember that humanity in Star Trek isn't our humanity. It lives on the far side of two nuclear wars and decades of post-atomic horrors. Humans in Roddenberry's future are supposed to be fundamentally *better* than people today.
Asher Mitchell
The same show that coined "Logic Extemists" Why do I get the feeling that's what feminists will start calling people who beat them in arguments.
Christian Cooper
McCoy the "country doctor" shows up looking like he just left a 70's disco. Country doctor my ass, he's a damn party animal.
Ryder Robinson
In the absence of government intervention, the oligarchy enforces itself via wealth accumulation. The perfect free market does not exist, never has, and never will, and historically the periods of time with the best standard of living throughout the population are the ones with heavy taxation on the wealthy and worker-friendly laws. And, of course, a convenient outside body to exploit. The Federation supposedly gets around that by removing the need for money period, and by having a high enough tech level that those being exploited for resources are just their own tech and uninhabitable planets and moons to be strip-mined. The least well-off resident of Earth probably has a better standard of living than today's billionaires. Hurray for fiction.
The funny thing with this clip is that we are repeatedly shown examples of Starfleet personnel with money (namely off the top of my head, O'Brien, Bashir, Riker and Nog himself when he joins). It's not that humanity as a whole doesn't need money, it's that Jake is a lazy unemployed military brat who relies on his dad and best friend for handouts when he could easily get an actual civilian job somewhere on the station and pay for shit himself.
Josiah Johnson
Then Rick and morty's hive mind unity seems more plausible to me.
Kayden Carter
>Jake is a lazy unemployed military brat who relies on his dad and best friend for handouts Man, fuck Jake. He was easily the third or fourth worst thing about DS9.
Gabriel Myers
>That isn't the case today. We have nursing shortages, stem teacher shortages, etc
Can't speak for nursing but the teacher shortage doesn't have anything to do very much with financial rewards from the teachers that I have spoken to. In good old Untidied Kingdom the one biggest deterrent to going into teaching is this collection of genetic defects:
Holy fuck the financial saving that could be had by culling this pond scum, the increase in quality, the reduced deterrent and the lowering of stress. Never has a collection of failed teachers and non-teaching desk jockies ever had a hold on the system of teaching. The majority of their "people" consist of "people" who couldn't make it as teachers, "people" who couldn't survive the stress as teachers with the Gestapo/OFSTED handing over them or professional clip-board ninjas with ambition to be the next Joseph Goebbels.
But given that we can see the Japanese Hate Ghost given a school to run as a fucking hobby on DS9 of all places despite no qualifications or prior experience why even question anything.
Not even going into the careers and lives that can be ruined with a simple accusation and no proof and in spite of an innocent verdict. Can you imagine what shit would be like in the UFP? With mind violating betazoids, deltan/orion hyper-sluts and the UFP's attitudes of guilty until proven innocent?
Jaxson Garcia
Star Trek was never supposed to be realistic. Ever. It was an optimistic, idealistic, look at the future that was supposed to be a goal to work towards, not a Real Life simulation.
Luke Bell
You know how long it takes a beard like that to grow? That man has been partying for at least a month non-stop.
Bentley Baker
Picard's pretty explicit about the 'no money' thing in First Contact too. Of course, it could just be that in Starfleet you don't have a salary but all living expenses are covered too. Honestly it's not fleshed out enough and I think a future exploration of the subject could end up going in a number of ways from full on socialism to a capitalistic society where people's basic needs are fulfilled by the state.
The whole thing about "we're so enlightened that we don't need currency!" thing is so far fetched that I would at least back away from it a little bit.
Wyatt Brooks
But if it's something that recuires humanity to stop being human then i will reject this future.
David Bennett
Why does giving up money mean we're not human anymore? Money has caused so much awfulness in society that if we could realistically give it up, I'd be on that in a heartbeat.
Logan Adams
The fact that you think it's inhuman is a reflection of your own pessimism, not historical fact.
Josiah Kelly
Humanity hasn't stopped being human, it's just that humans of Trek's time have generally started making better life choices.
Again, it's idealistic and optimistic. Not realistic.
Jaxon Gutierrez
Remember that one TNG episode where some aliens are auctioning off a "stable wormhole" and the Federation shows up asking for it for literally nothing?
Xavier Lee
As I recall what the Federation showed up offering was to make the planet a Federation member and fix its problems - infrastructure, development, material supplies, resources, etc.
As opposed to the Ferengi, who were just offering bars of gold.
