What are your thoughts on roboute guilliman?

Does he have too much armor(plot)?

cool model and the rules are pretty fun but i dont like what these huge special characters are doing to the game. it seems like most people bring these guys instead of making their own commanders and making my own commander was something i always liked about warhammer.

He actually gets shat on quite a bit, but still pulls through in the end. So yeah he has plot armor but what do you expect, they didn't bring him back just to die or lose all the time. Still less plot armor than Tau. People who bitch about him are either people sick of him on the tabletop, ward memeing newfags, or ultrasmurf haters who would love to see him die again and removed from the setting. I.e. None of their whining matters. The setting has way bigger problems

Shouldn't have come back. None of the primarchs should.
The primarchs should've stayed as near mythological beings

>The setting has way bigger problems
Pretty much everything by now

This, it's like if the BEAST became an ork unit. These individuals were described as forces of nature. Putting them on the table where they get mobbed by conscripts and chipped to death or killed by mass las cannon fire really cheapens the legacy.

Forget plot armour, he has too much actual armour
Personally don't think anything that strong and influential should be allowed a 3++

he should be 600 points

Would still be auto-take.

3++ would be fine if he wasn't able to hide behind troops like a bitch.

>like the god of tacticians

I can relate to him as autistic as that sounds. I really enjoy reading about him even though I'm not much for genre fiction. I like his discipline and organisation. It encouraged me to read more about Ultramar and related things.

3++ is fine on smaller shit that doesn't have many wounds or is low enough in toughness you don't need SERIOUS firepower to force enough saves to overwhelm it, but at T6 with 9 wounds (9+D6 if you count what he gets from the rez) on something that NEEDS to be killed quickly, straight-up negating 2/3 of all hurt coming at you is enormous
If you ask me, nothing bigger than T5 should be able to have a better invuln than 4+. Still strong, but a coin-flip is nowhere as reliable.

I like that he isn't like other primarchs that he's always right or winning in some way. In Dark Imperium Fulgrim really makes a fool of him and slices his throat. He knows his limits, he's not the best fighter of the primarchs and is more of a statesman than anything else; a true ruler.

In Dark Imperium, he is basically an over worked dad who is trying to hold the Imperium (a rapidly sinking ship) afloat with duct tape and staples (because that's all there is left). He has a bunch of kids, some quiet and hard working (astartes) while others are cunning assholes (imperial governors) who cause more trouble than they're worth, and others are just annoying but good hearted little kids (the ecclesiarchy).

Now imagine this Single Dad coming home from work to find that his house his on fire and there is shit everywhere because his kids couldn't do anything about it.

So the Single Dad goes to his Single Dad (from now on referred to as Single Grandad) to get some advice and maybe some emotional support, but the Grandad reveals that he never loved him, or any of his kids, and only sees him as a tool.

Now our struggling hero goes back to his house to find that his really dirty and sick brother is trying to rub aids all over his house. Meanwhile the smallest and most annoying child (the ecclesiarchy) won't shut the fuck up about how the Emperor was a God, and how Guilliman is a half God and we should all worship them.

Guilliman, now wearing a stained wife-beater and a permenant 5'oclock shadow, and his hair is greying (ok, this part is actually confirmed in the books) has to kick his disgusting brother out while making sure his kids don't fuck shit up.


TL;DR: Being Guilliman is suffering.

Have you actually played against him? His T/W/Sv aren't the problem, it's the fact that you aren't allowed to target him with guns unless you basically kill his entire army.

INCREASING his wound total would go a long way towards balancing him, because for a character having less than 10 wounds is significantly better than having anything below the high teens.

Agreed. As time goes on 40K is losing more and more of its mystery and wonder. Everything has to be explained in detail and every character that was once just mentioned in fluff text has to be given a novel or three and maybe a model. I want the days of 3rd edition back.

He has as much plot armor as a Primarch should have desu.
I like guilliman, I like the way he's portrayed as sometimes being a complete fagot. I like that he's not Great at everything, instead just being well rounded but beaten by specialists. I like how his biggest flaws are being uncreative and having an ever-growing pole lodged firmly up his arse.
I also like how when he first comes back, he's disgusted by what the Imperium has become, then proceeds to get shit done.
I dig the whole Dark Imperium, even if I have to headcanon stuff every once in a while to get them to make sense.
On the tabletop...As much as I love seeing a primarch tearing it up in 40k, and I do love it, I wish he wasn't a thing. I dunno it just kind of cheapens the game for me. Your dudes don't matter its the big hero that matters.

Also, that model needs to wear a paper bag over its head.

The kit also has a helmet, and the he display model is painted like ass

He looks way better with a fucking helmet on.

>tfw nidfag
>tfw my army is still not very well explained
At least we've got that going for us

What's the deal with the Codex? The Black Templars secretly break the limit. The Space Wolves openly defy it. Guilliman comes back and creates a not legion, legion in Ultramar. What's the point of keeping a chapter under one thousand? Only suckers follow nonsensical rules that nobody enforces.

>Swarmlord loses to Calgar
>an even bigger Calgar arrives in the form of Guilliman
>Hive Mind decides they need a series of 18 super Swarmlords to fight back
>half of them go rogue and rebel against the Hive Mind

WARHAMMER 41,000: THE HIVE HERESY

He says, after 10,000 years of changes and hindsight.

Sw still are just around 2k. Before Magnus came playing. Turns out attrition and being unable to recruit from a barely inhabited deathworld( which is now gone) do bad things.

He has too much armor trim; it makes him look like a CSM model.

Yup

^Yep

What are you talking about? That is OBVIOUSLY a picture of Alpharius.

This

I'd play it, if it meant new models for us.

i never knew 40k lore would be so improved by casting it all as a white trash domestic dispute straight outta cops

>tyranid rebels join the Imperium and humans to form an unholy coalition with the genestealer cults as new ambassadors
>rippers get little tanks and Carnifexes get gravis armor.
Bugmarines soon lads. Courtesy of Cawl.

His gf is hot

If you want to get properly oldfag about it, the primarchs should have stayed as 'ordinary' space marines that were venerated by their chapter as legendary heroes, instead of the obnoxious dragonball z power level shit we ended up with.

>The setting has way bigger problems
Not an argument.

>rippers get little tanks

This should not sound as cute as I think.

The armour is OTT and the face looks weird at least in the default painting. They should have made it look like more the Forge World Guilliman at least either in terms of proportions or overdecoration.

Chaos Primarchs didn't die off after the heresy, a few were out and about before the Dark Imperium.

RT is not better just for having been RT. The character of the Legions being so different doesn't make sense if they don't have different paternal culture and genes.

They wanted to sell minis so their players could build their own chapters

Agreed. It takes a lot of the creativity out of the game. When someone takes Bobby G in like a 2000 pts game it's just silly. He wouldn't get out of bed for a less than 5000 game imo.

Yup. Daemon princes hiding behind pox walkers makes no fucking sense.

>>I kind of like the Guilliman storyline

>>Get to the point where Cypher shows up and rescues him

Well fuck this.

As far as the model goes, its completely over-designed. Same problem a lot of the new models have really.