Try to make a puzzle for a D&D session

>Try to make a puzzle for a D&D session
>Either it's stooped in my own logic which the players may have a hard time understanding OR someone gets a hairbrained notion and winds up goading them all to follow his lead on it and coming to the wrong conclusion
>I have no way of checking the validity of this puzzle since if I run it by them I basically spoil it anyway and negate the point
>If I do the whole "oh just follow THEIR logic on it" then I remove any challenge in the puzzle and create an always-win scenerio

Is there a way to actually use puzzles in D&D?

How to create a good puzzle:

Start with very simple logic. A, then B. Maybe even B, then C if you're feeling frisky. Treat it like a report. This, if given by itself, should be incredibly obvious.

Then make it a mystery by adding a bunch of other information that is unrelated.

Then make it solvable by adding in extra hints to what is important and what's not. You cannot be too obvious here.

And that's it! Adjust # of unrelated info/hints as appropriate for your play group. Just always remember to keep the core of it incredibly simple.

That seems like a good theory. Can you provide an example?

I have a friend who works for a company that puts together "murder mystery" events for money, and this is the exact process they used to create mysteries unless otherwise specified by the customer.

If you're looking for ways to come up with ideas, it's literally the same as any other brainstorming you might do.

Puzzles are bad. They grind the game to a halt and require the players to spend a long time doing something that isn't fun, usually don't make sense in-universe, require player skill rather than character skill, and often require players to read the DM's mind. Just don't use them.

>Puzzles are bad

>puzzles are bad
You are Jon.

Only point you're proving is that they're popular with people who want to think they're smarter than they really are.

had the DM screw my character only once with a puzzle
we found a magic book that they just said was evil (nevermind that one of our mages can cast identify infinitely & just tell us, evil's enough apparently)
my barbarian thought that it's a trapped book, therefor reading sets it off. I wanted to poke it with my spear to just open it & use a craft check to try & paint what he saw
next thing I know, my character's banished from existence for just the poking & a troll takes my place
they immediately abandon my character because they were afraid of another troll coming

almost immediately afterwards, they were stuck in one of those closing wall rooms from movies & they couldn't solve the riddle to get it to stop. I actually guessed it & the DM confirmed when I whispered to him, but he took pity on them & had an NPC show up & get them out of this mess

I was kinda pissed, though. I lose my first character with bitchin stat rolls without even a will save while they get out of death just because the DM didn't want to party wipe

Puzzles
If you do nothing, bad thing happens and the plot continues.
Get it wrong, bad thing happens and the plot continues. Probably more severe than above, or incurs a cost in addition to bad thing.
Get it right, pass along unhindered. Possibly rewarded.

The trick is that the plot moves forward, no matter what you do. If they come up with a solution you think should solve the dilemma, let it work, even if you hadn't though of it.

Something you need to realize, about how human brains work: When they're having a hard time with a puzzle of a problem people like to go back to the beginning, and work their way forwards from there. There normally wouldn't be anything wrong with this, BUT, people are fucking *awful* at telling what the beginning of the puzzle is, and most of the time they go back to where their own line of thinking started.

You need to try to overcome this, by making sure the goal of the puzzle, and it's components are clear, before you start throwing in red herrings and clues, like said, and adjusting based on group.

What is also super useful on a meta level, especially if you have the issue you described of one player taking the helm, is before you introduce the puzzle, simply tell the players they're not allowed to say *anything* for one minute after you describe the puzzle, just use that time to think about it themselves. This will give each of them a chance to come up with their own idea of "the beginning", instead of one player blurting out "Clearly the scepter is the key!" Or something, and getting everyone "stuck" on the same idea. Then it's just a matter of making sure everyone can contribute their thoughts relatively equally.

Why are you asking in relation to DnD? It makes no fucking sense to restrict a topic this broad to that shitty game.

D&D is a static point of reference, different games handle meta knowledge in different manners. It's a general topic, but knowing the specific is hardly bad in asking a question.

It's physically painful to watch you scramble to justify this arbitrary bullshit. Fucking DnD-drones, you are the worst thing about this hobby.

...

I like to make problems, not solutions. then wait till they come up with a good idea, and that now "is" the solution

for example
>"you're locked in a room with a length of rope, bucket of yacks milk and a BEAR"
I feed the bear the milk, then use the rope to ride it to safety
>"great idea, roll me some dice"

good roll = bear bro and you are hitting the streets
bad roll = the enraged bear gores you and smashes down the wall, your out, but man fuck that bear
the point, the only thing you shouldn't do with puzzles.
Is demand a specific answer.

all the happens is you get annoyed with your idiot players.
the players get annoyed that this fuckn DM woun't let them play
and no one has any fun.


>autism speaks

You can flip the script with this
If you have a high int character or knowledge cleric at your table you give the party a puzzle that's absurdly difficult and convoluted.
Then when the head scratching begins and the players are nearly ready to give up you tell them
>Maybe [wizard/knowledge god] knows something you don't
Of course if the wizard is asking "have i seen something like this before?" You just skip that step and let them roll a check
If you don't let your players roll int checks to (help) solve puzzles you're part of the problem
>Inb4 don't play a character smarter than yourself
Nobody who would be accurately statted with 20 int would want to play dnd anyway

Suffer in silence then you pedantic faggot.

The fuck D&D even has to do with this?

so critical thinking is arbitrary and all that matters in your game is RNG?

seems pretty boring user

On the main story I never use puzzles to block the story.
Puzzles are a bonus or a way around a penalty.

ie. there is a puzzle on the door. by solving the puzzle you maintain stealth, or unlock the room without damage from a trap, or get access to a shortcut (skipping over some rough encounters), or a buff that you normally wouldn't get, or skip a penalty/hex you get for breaking down the door.
BUT
Breaking down the door is still a valid option. You just give up whatever bonus or accept whatever penalty. This way the story keeps going on we never get stuck in a room and the players hate the game.
That said. Sidequest get FUCKING HARD PUZZLES. Optional treasure rooms. Chests not linked directly to the story. Random dungeons. Those you have to work for. And can come back to again (or retry later) when you solved the puzzle.

You're doing the wrong kind of puzzles. Or rather, you're doing RIDDLES. Something artificial with only a single answer and a binary success.

How you need to think of your puzzles is more like OBSTACLES. Something that is physical in the game world, and impedes your players' progress, but does not have a SINGLE set solution. That is not possible with a binary "word magic" riddle.

When it exists as mechanical devices (even with Indiana Jones logic) or even as magical devices that behave according to some rules, players are allowed a lot more creativity in getting past it using the different tools they have.

Example: maybe there's a room with lots of different paths, some of which are trapped to spring down a cage on top of the players. There is a single "correct" path, probably, but the players will have to use their cleverness to find that path. But also, because metal cages are a physical thing, maybe they'll bend the bars with their strength? Maybe they'll dodge out when the cage falls using their agility? Maybe they'll teleport or turn into gas using their wizardry? Maybe they'll turn into a snake using their druidism?

But then instead of allowing them to take all the time they want to use these tools, you add complication and tension by introducing enemies into the mix. Not strong ones, but guess what? These enemies are incorporeal and can move through the cages no problem. Now your party might be divided.

So there are an infinite amount of solutions, but some will drain the group's RESOURCES (health/spells) more than others.

>Is there a way to actually use puzzles in D&D?
Buy one and hand it to your players. Start a timer. If they can't solve it in five minutes, say they solve it with a skill check, but don't get an extra reward. If they do, give them some bonus experience or a potion or a piece of treasure.

I do this and it works great. I despise puzzles. My players (some at least) love them. I buy it, never even try to solve it, hand it to them, they get super excited and unlock some metal linked bars or open a little box, and they get a prize. If they fail, the game goes on after a few minutes and the people who weren't interested, including me, just view it as a bathroom break.