Could you help me come up with interesting and powerful (but not bullshit) abilities using HxH's Nen system?

>they need to willingly choose to take the card
Hunters are cautious and perceptive folk, nobody's going to just grab something covered in aura from a guy they're fighting, especially if he told them to.
>the ability lasts for some pre-determined time
Each arcana has it's own time-limit, and they all deactivate if he's unconscious, except the tower.
>beneficial cards
While some are useless is some scenarios, it wouldn't make sense for him to have designed some as detrimental to him. It works similar to Kite's technique; even if he SAYS "Tsk, bad spin" every time, there aren't ACTUALLY any bad spins on there.
It's the three-pronged hit of being random, needing to physically touch them with something, and removing the sneak attack option (something very important in HxH) by straight up telling them "Hey, these cards are gonna do something". It's supposed to be that if you get to the point that he could activate a hatsu, you're already pretty fucked.
I played around with the idea that people could choose specific cards if they'd seen them before, but then he could just have an ally pick a powerful one for him every time.

I know you have to have a lot of first hand experience with something to transmute your aura into it, but I was really surprised they never had a guy covered in burn scars transmute his aura into fire.
It seems like it writes itself.

That sort of "system" is probably better for diagnosing a character than actually building one from the ground up. If you wanted to play a HxH game I'd think the best way would be one of the superhero systems out there

Honestly I think it's way, way, way too overpowered from the way you describe it. For a start the only comparable abilities are Kite's which it completely outclasses, the Bomber's which it also completely outclasses and Chrollo's which isn't a good thing if you want your nen ability to not be broken.

While we don't know all nine of Kite's rolls we know that none of his weapons can give him an instant win scenario. We also know that he can force the roll to land on the baton when he knows he's going to die, however as far as we know the baton is useless as a weapon so that's just admitting defeat. Basically while Kite can force a "live another day" scenario, as far as we know he has nothing comparable to the Death or Hanged Man Tarot.

Not to mention he basically takes the Bomber's drawbacks and shits all over them. The Bomber had a moderately powerful ability that's a balanced by the fact that he had to explain the entire situation to his target, explain how to get out of the situation and had to physically touch his target in order to activate the explosion. Your guy does not have to tell his target shit other than the phrase "pick a card" and does have to physically be close to the intended target or endanger himself like the Bomber does when closing the gap. Add to that that instead on one human sized initiator the target has 22 cards telepathically flying at then from multiple angles to worry about.

Not to mention you didn't state if more than one card can or cannot activate at a time so potentially if this guy acts like batman and hides in the rafters, calls out "pick a card" and then bum rushes the target with 22 flying cards before they can say "NANI?!" all 22 hatsu could activate on one person who got caught off guard.

The main problem with this idea is that the seven examples you gave are comparable to "ultimate" moves of any other nen user, of which they'd only have one of, which would also be couple with a drawback.

continued

It feels like this would have to have some really serious restrictions to pull of some of those. Like, at least half the cards that can be picked benefit the chooser instead of the user.

>at least half
Why not just make it exactly half?
Any given card has a 50/50 chance of being "reversed", which makes it benefit the chooser rather than the user.

Take the Hanged Man for example.
>Hanged Man: creates a animate length of flying rope that ruthlessly hunts down the target, preventing the use of any nen while they are bound by it
Well that's similar to Knuckle's Ace move. But Knuckle has to physically hit his target to activate it, while Tarot guy can hide from some vantage point and oversee his telekinetic flying cards swarm the target thus providing an adequate distraction for the the rope it ensnare the target. Knuckle's ability then count's upwards until it hit's the quota. A quota based entirely on the target's own power. If the target has a massive reserve of nen then it takes a long time to hit the quota, thus the time limit compensates for the danger of the enemy. But nothing actually affects the target until the quota is reached so they have adequate time based on their prowess to retaliate. Hanged Man is instant. It get's you and game over. Sure you could theoretically cut it off or something, but without allies you're not doing that. There's 21 other cards and Tarot guy himself to stop you.

Strength is ridiculously overpowered compared to anything Enhancers have displayed. Death seems fine as is but again is a useful ability in a plethora of useful abilities, The Hermit is an instant win scenario against an individual, The Tower is way too grand for something that someone hasn't dedicated all their training to and likewise with the World & Moon, instant teleportation and COMPLETELY undetectable, those are endgame abilities.

Death is the only one I'd say is balanced. Assured death but you have a thirteen hour window in which to stop it. Everything else is either instant win or assured denial, no leeway whatsoever.

continued

In fact, the more I think about it, this guy is absolutely broken as fuck. Dude doesn't actually have any drawbacks by the way.
>It's supposed to be that if you get to the point that he could activate a hatsu, you're already pretty fucked.
It's easy (comparatively) for him to pull these off. Three words and they activate versus the Bomber's manual. the physical contact doesn't come from him personally and has 22 possible activators.
>Hey, these cards are gonna do something
Yeah but he isn't telling them what. Meanwhile people with far less broken abilities are forced to explain in depth
>cannot activate them without another Nen user.
Neither can Kurapika. In fact Kurapika has it worse. Kurapika can only use his nen around 9 individuals. Tarot Guy can do it around ANY nen user. All of Kurapika's comparable abilities require Kurapika to personally wrestle the target into submission with them. Tarot guy sends 22 flying cards to do it for him and then once their activated they run on autopilot.
>there aren't ACTUALLY any bad spins on there.
>he has no control over which result he gets
But they all do benefit him and unlike Kite they benefit him HUGELY. Kite fucking wishes he had the Hermit, Moon, Death, Strength and Hanged Man.
> it wouldn't make sense for him to have designed some as detrimental to him.
It wouldn't make sense for the Bomber to explain his entire method, but he has to. It wouldn't make sense for Knuckle to have the build up, but he has to. It wouldn't make sense for Kurapika to deny himself his powers unless in specific circumstances unless he had to, well he DOES have to. Tarot guy has at least a third of his cards being overwhelmingly better than anything that can be compared to them and he has no negative to counterbalance them? AND he's not pigeon-holed into a speciality? Remember even Kite's roulette revolved around specifically becoming hand-held weapons. Tarot's cards can do seemingly anything.

continued

If it was a 50/50 chance of being a detriment, there'd be no reason to us it, let alone have it be really hard to activate.

The thing is, he has two fundamental advantages: knowing the results any given result has, and being able to stop the 'dealing' at any time.

Even in a theoretically equal system (like always drawing cards in pairs, one benefiting each combatant), he still has an immediate idea of the matchup, and can deal more cards if it isn't favorable to him.

If he had to lay out all the cards beforehand (including 'in the deck'), and couldn't move them afterwards, that'd take care of the second benefit, but not the first.

Let's talk about Chrollo. Chrollo is a specialist and he's overpowered as hell. Chrollo has access to any number of nen abilities but he can only use one at time, yet can freely switch between them. As far as we know he doesn't personally have any downside other than having to collect these in the first place.

Your guy is discount Chrollo. Instead of potentially having any nen ability to choose from he has a pool of 22. Instead of freely choosing between them it's random. That's assuming only one Tarot can be active at a time, which again, you didn't actually state was the case.

But the discount part falters when we realise Tarot guy's seven examples (again, one third of his pool) are leagues ahead of any of the examples Chrollo has used. Maybe the stickers are comparable but the rest definitely aren't.

Tarot guy has better moves than the rest of the cast for even less drawbacks. It's completely broken.

Either severely gimp his best cards so that his strongest is comparable to Kite (remember he has fifteen more choices than Kite so that alone arguably makes him stronger). Do what these guys suggest and make every potentially a double edged sword. Or put severe limits on every ability like a one minute timer on everything but say Tower & Death. In all cases make it so that only one tarot can be active at a time. But either way he's still villain of the arc overpowered tier.

Last one

Chrollo's nen ability does have a flaw, though it also has an exception.
Stolen/borrowed nen abilities require the person he stole the power from to still be alive, with the exception of the human bomb power that became stronger once the original owner died.

Personally I'd do this:
He cannot activate them without another Nen user. Only one tarot may be active at a time unless a tarot states otherwise. Each one cannot reoccur until all 22 are activated. Once this happens the order "shuffles" and the random draw starts over again.
The Hermit: lasts five minutes. A new tarot can be drawn as soon as the hermit activates
Strength: increases either Tarot's or the target's (whichever is physically weaker) physical power by 10x for 10 minutes.
Hanged Man: dissipates as soon as it's removed.
>Death: 13 days rather than hours. Another Tarot can be drawn as soon as death activates
>The Tower: Teleports both the user and target to a tower without windows and one entrance. The only way out is if the user allows the gate to open. It is indestructible/immovable otherwise. The user is stuck in the tower for as long as the gate remains closed. The user cannot leave the tower without the target.
>The Moon: lasts 1 minute
>The World: One instant teleportation within a 100 mile radius.

Other tarot would be double edged like sharing pain or low key like being pointed in the right direction to something you want. If something is really strong, it should have a very small window to activate and no backsies.

tl;dr
It's completely fucking broken, worse than anything in the series and it's drawbacks aren't even real drawbacks.

Probably all of that is going to get ignored

Right, because that makes sense

Well when 50% of that is instant win/survival then you need a lot of drawbacks to compensate

I mean, going off the internal rules of the setting, the dude just plain wouldn't design the tarot system. If he did they'd all have to be low tier to all be useful. Getting to two separate instant nullification, the greatest enhancing known to man, the largest conjuring known, complete nullification of all senses, teleportation and straight up death, at most only one of which he should be capable of, he'd be anchored by the most ridiculous of drawbacks.

Well, in the context of the story, there is an old man used nen-based suicide bombers to protect Meteor City from outside influence and reclaim citizens taken away from there.
Chrollo may be like this person's successor, or at least someone that respected Chrollo.
So his stolen ability became stronger rather than disappeared because perhaps the spirit of that guy allowed his nen power to remain with Chrollo rather than follow him in death.

So theft's require the original owner to be alive, gifts persist on after death.

Assuming gifting also removes the ability forever that makes complete sense. Balanced. Somewhat.

Wild Talents is the one you want if your focus is on complex interactions and such, but if you just want to get to playing and don't care too much about PCs having complex powers, Monsters and Other Childish Things is a better ORE game to use.

With Wild Talents you can have weird shit like ice spears that suck life from a target and then explode. With MaOCT you can stick to simpler stuff like Gon's techniques and have an easier learning curve for it.

I've clearly left some things out so let me explain further.
The telekinetic movement of the cards has a very short range, he can't move them if they're further than a couple feet away. He CAN throw them, or leave them around places to act as traps, but that leaves him less of them to use as a shield.
Also no, multiple hatsu cannot be active at once. Any of the cards activating dispels the rest of the cards until the cooldown for that arcana is up. Defeating the person that picked that card lowers that cooldown, but doesn't necessarily remove it completely, and some of the stronger arcana take hours to cooldown, leaving him defenseless. Bringing into play the important factor that the simple obstacle of having two opponents puts him at a huge disadvantage, as most of his arcana are single target.
They feel comparable to other "ultimate" moves because they're meant to be, and yes others only have one but that is a good thing. Nen battles are a game of strategy where the winner is usually determined before the first attack. Other users know exactly what they're working with and can plan for it, he's going in almost as blind as his enemy and has to just run with what he gets, or die.

Here is my take on a more balanced Tarot/Major Arcana based Nen user. They are a more specialized support nen user who helps allies with random temporary power ups. They revolve around changing/boosting other's nen powers.
>Specialist
>Requires a physical deck of tarot cards. If they lose their deck they will need to replace it.
>The nen user cannot draw cards or choose which card another person draws.
>Most of the cards are net positives, but a few are negative.
>The nen user temporarily gives the card drawer a chunk of their total nen until the effect ends.
>Most cards change or enhance the nen ability of the person drawing the card.
Instead of inventing really outlandish powers, my idea is for the powers to be more basic while still having decent flexibility.
>Strength: change the card drawer into an Enhancer type for X amount of time, or improve the ability of an enhancer type.
I'm not sure which tarot would work best for Transmutation, Conjuration, Manipulation or Emission, but there should be a card for each of the 5 major types.
>The World: grants extra powerful En to the card drawer.
Other cards would boost the other core nen abilities like hatsu and gyo.
>The Tower: forces card drawer to enter a state of forced zetsu and/or causes the Nen master to absorb all of the nen of the card drawer
While this card seems like a huge drawback, it actually lets the Nen user to deal more cards with the extra absorbed nen.

>Hanged Man
as I've explained now, there are not 21 other cards to deal with alongside hanged man, just the rope and the user, and like Knuckle, he has to hit his opponent to activate it, he just has to hit them with a card. While it does fly and hunt you down, it's not impossible for a hunter to continually evade it.
>Strength
Here I'm just outright disagreeing, 100x is not out of that range of possibillits for enhancers using conditional hatsu. We saw what Gon did with conditional enhancment, and while the conditions are much less that what he used, 100x is laughable compared to the result he got. Meanwhile there's people like Uvogin who straight up screamed a guy to death, and he doesn't have any conditions, or a time limit.
>The tower
Admitadly, the tower needs work. I'm trying to have them all match the aracana's themes but it's not easy. It is meant to be one of the most powerful of his hatsu though.
>The Hermit is an instant win scenario against an individual
Unless they're an emitter.
>world and moon are end game abillities
They're meant to be, though even they have situations in which they're useless.

Wouldn't an emitter be especially terrible because they'd trigger the cards with their attacks?

How did he get any of those abilities? There's no way in hell he practised with 22 different powers at random to the point where as many as seven are that powerful. Remember they need to train themselves to be proficient with their abilities

Chrollo's powers is bar none the best power in HxH, but the Tarot power is much closer to Kite's, but Kite can use a power whenever he wants, he's not reliant on hitting an enemy with something first. You say he has more choices that Kite but he doesn't, neither of them have any choices, they only have possibilities, and having more random possibilities is worse than less, as it gives you less of a chance to get the most useful one.
Well... Kite does have one choice, the wand, and that's more powerful than any of the arcanas.
>he's still villain of the arc overpowered tier.
Make no mistake, he's definitely meant to be a high level character.

>he's going in almost as blind as his enemy and has to just run with what he gets, or die.
This isn't a problem if the worst case scenario for him is "If I get death I have to run away and hide" because everything else is instant either an instant win scenario or completely prevents a loss.

Initially yes, but if The Hermit is active the cards are gone
The same way anyone practices nen techniques that have conditions for use that they can't fulfill themselves.

Chrollo having a potentially higher ceiling doesn't really matter if your guy is show to outright make all of his demonstrated abilities irrelevant.

If your guy went head to head with Chrollo, Chrollo would lose

Probably, depending on which arcana he'd draw.
But that's only because Chrollo would intentionally let him activate an arcana so he could see it in action so he could steal it.
If Chrollo wanted him dead, he'd never get off his hatsu.
And that's still assuming Chrollo's alone.

>Hanged Man
That's better
>Strength
Gon's conditional enhancement was I lose my powers and severely mangle my body as soon as this is finished. You're comparing that to "oh I may not get the one I want, boo hoo!" Completely different classes. Gon gave everything up to get that one time power boost, your guy is loses nothing.
>Uvogin
Seemed like the embodiment of enhancement. Remind me where he coupled this with teleportation and conjuring?
>The Hermit
Four out of five is still broken. Besides it wouldn't even be all emitters. Not all emitters would have the range or speed to fire at a guy who knows about this flaw and to do it from a floating in the air position with no footing
>They're meant to be, though even they have situations in which they're useless.
Which are what exactly? These are bar none the most powerful of the list.
World allows you to relocate at will to any vantage or position you wish. It's genuinely the Teleports behind you "psh, nothin' personal kid" power. Moon on the other hand is THE most broken instant win ability. You said COMPLETELY UNDETECTABLE. This allows you to escape or ambush perfectly. If they can't see, smell, hear, touch or taste you then they can't stop you from doing anything. If you get moon, you've won. They can't stop you from ambushing them, you can cut their throat/decapitate/dismember/strangle/blind them whatever and they can't even detect you're doing it until you've done it. Feeling your hands around their neck is detecting you, which they can't do, so their throat would just feel swollen, then close and they don't know why.

Moon is the downright most broken one there

>The same way anyone practices nen techniques that have conditions for use that they can't fulfill themselves.
Such as? Everything shown, even greed island seems like it was built upon something. Don't get me wrong, Greed Island makes no sense, but it at leas could of started small scale and be built up to an island.

The only things that are really beyond practice are the examples where the Nen user makes a vow to exchange their life. But when they do that they already know the fundamentals of what they're gaining. It's based off what they're already capable of, just magnified. They understand they're exchanging everything in return for a huge one-time-only multiplication. Hell even Chrollo's ability could be theoretically figured out by practice. But this guy isn't giving up anything to do 22 things better than any master of one of those things. It's bullshit special snowflake shit

Right, Gon spent a lot more for that power, but it was way WAY beyond 100x.
>Remind me where he coupled this with teleportation and conjuring?
Tarot guy can't use teleportation or conjuring either when Strength is drawn.
>Which are what exactly?
If he draws the World and they can also teleport or just move fast enough to get out of his En before he can take them down, there's nothing he can do. He can go out after them but he'd be fighting them with just Ko and Ken while they're at full power.
The Moon is useless against anyone too tough to hurt with raw power alone, such as the stronger chimera ants, and he is still left vulnerable to AoE attacks

I don't understand. If you can tell just how overpowered your idea is, why aren't you toning it down accordingly? Do you actually just want to have an overpowered character?

>Moon
Chrollo literally can't do anything
>World
Chrollo won't even comprehend instant until the deed is over and done with. Chrollo loses.
>Tower
This all depends on the rules of the tower but this infinite floor labyrinth will potentially kill or force the surrender of anyone.
>Hermit
Chrollo can't even change nen abilities when this one activates. He'd lose the book/whatever he were to gain if he tried. He can't come into contact with anything new. This is most likely a loss since the majority of his stolen abilities would be rendered useless by this and he can't switch to a more suitable one.
>Strength
Gee I guess he could win this one. Or he could really underestimate what 100x the average nen user's strength is. That's if he even knows. Remember Tarot guy isn't telling anyone what the individual cards do even when activated. He just says three words and that's that.
>Hanged man
Chrollo would most likely avoid this one.
>Death
Chrollo would also most likely not lose to this.

>And that's still assuming Chrollo's alone.
That's assuming Tarot guy, whom you've mentioned has allies, is alone

This guy IS broken. You do realise he'd beat Meruem on 3/7 of these abilities no contest and could conceivably out last Meruem with two more. That should NEVER be the case.

I mean it's a cool idea and all, but you made him way too powerful with next to no drawback. You'd be gimping this guy on GM fiat and just never allowing him to roll certain abilities unless he were to specifically use them for their non combat use. The Tarots could never be left in the hands of a player. It's the ultimate DMPC/Villain that must be overcome through plot

If you actually want to be able to pretend this character isn't just bullshit at least turn one of the cards into a real weakness.

>The Fool
If this card is touched by another person's aura first, all 22 cards disappear forever.

>Such as?
Exactly. Like a lot n HxH he didn't have a real way to train it before putting it into practice, but the idea is he's a fortune teller, and was simply very familiar with the arcana themselves and how they effect fate and the world around him.

user, this is nonsense. This motherfucker would need a seven page backstory to justify this kind of power, and by token of that would never be allowed in a game. If anything the fact that he already places some kind of belief in the power of the cards would make negotiating for a stronger nen ability MUCH harder while using them. There's a reason Kite's ability is a dumb fucking clown, and it's not because he likes clowns.

>Right, Gon spent a lot more for that power
And Tarot guy isn't spending anything. You keep dancing over this, but the point remains, he's haxxing everything without an adequate explanation
>but it was way WAY beyond 100x.
Was it? I debate this. At his normal enhancement Gon can cut limbs off and punch through nen coated bodies. 100x that and he would be leaving craters in mountainsides. 100 is a huge multiplication. I think you're overestimating this hugely.
>Tarot guy can't use teleportation or conjuring either when Strength is drawn.
See this would hold up for Chrollo. Chrollo is just taking someone else's achievements and using them himself. He doesn't generate the training necessary to do those feats, he takes the fruits of someone else labour. If Tarot guy was doing the same thing and trapping the powers in 22 themed cards then that excuse would be applicable. But you've said twice now that this is specifically his natural ability. Well unless he's the son of Zeus it's too fucking bullshit. It makes no sense whatsoever. Less when you handwave it as him not even having to cultivate these gains.
>If he draws the World and they can also teleport or just move fast enough to get out of his En before he can take them down
Here's the problem with that: World's teleportation is instant. If they're not out of the en before it sets they're done for.
>The Moon is useless against anyone too tough to hurt with raw power alone, such as the stronger chimera ants, and he is still left vulnerable to AoE attacks
The AoE he just needs to avoid, once he's move out of the initial area they're far less able to hit him, they can't detect him. And again he can still blind or suffocate without reproach. COMPLETE is a very strong word.

>Such as?
>Exactly.
That doesn't answer anything. Explain properly.

Like I said, this is meant to a highpower character. Roughly on par with "faster than instant" Killua, or "Oh my rubber nen" Hisoka, or "I literally can't be killed" Kite.
>Moon
He could probably teleport him away,he didn't need to see the last person he used it on.
>World
I feel like you're really underestimating Chrollo
>Tower
Tower as written defeats him yes, but tower needs reworking
>Hermit
Hermit beats him yes, this is the a situation where he draws exactly the card he needs to defeat this specific opponent
>Strength
It's not gonna help him again the book
>Hanged man
Almost definitely he'd avoid it
>Death
Drawing Death again Chrollo would be a definite loss for tarot.

>you've mentioned has allies
I didn't exactly, but that's not up to me.
>unless he were to specifically use them for their non combat use
What? What non-combat use?
>The Tarots could never be left in the hands of a player
That's the idea. You don't get to choose.

He's a fortune teller, not a gambler, he's not gonna risk becoming powerless every time he starts a fight to the death.

He's not a fortune teller, he's the most powerful person in the fucking world. He'd fuck Netero in the ass if the old man were still alive, because any nen ability could trigger a card. This kind of power is ridiculous.

If youi were actually pushing the random/fortune-telling part of the power, you'd drop the stupid "22 powers in one" bullshit and just make the cards shuffle themselves, draw thmselves, and then generate an effect based on an array that the user is not allowed to predict. That's a real negotiated power, not this bullshit snowflake OC who ignores every rule.

>Chrollo's powers is bar none the best power in HxH, but the Tarot power is much closer to Kite's
The Tarots power, even at seven is clearly WAY beyond Conjuration and firmly into Super Special Bullshit Specialisation category. You may have modelled it on Kite but you went WAY to far. Kite summons one of nine hand weapons at random. HAND WEAPONS. Tarot rewrites the laws of physics and draws from any category. The only connection to kite is that it's chosen at random.

Tarot is just Chrollo's book. But the book is already filled and it's on a roulette. The tarot has non of the consistency Kite's does. Tarot is fucking god. He's just the god of rolling dice

>At his normal enhancement Gon can cut limbs off
Gon is not at his normal amount of strength when he uses enhancement.
>See this would hold up for Chrollo.
But Chrollo CAN teleport and conjure while when he uses another power, he can pick and choose any of the powers he has, he just has to turn one off to use another one, he doesn't get locked to a random one. The cards are like getting a different weapon everyday, the book as like having a whole arsenal, but only one hand.
>If they're not out of the en before it sets they're done for.
Appearing next to someone instantly doesn't mean you kill them instantly. Hell with Killua around, hitting someone's brain instantly doesn't even mean you kill them.
> he can still blind or suffocate without reproach
You wouldn't feel his hand on you mouth, but you'd realize you weren't breathing.
>That doesn't answer anything. Explain properly.
I'm saying no, it does not have a good explanation, similar to several characters from the source material.

Take inspiration from this CYOA's pages 3 and 4

...

See you're refusing to acknowledge what the problem is. Once again you're completely blanking on why he has such natural power that completely breaks every rule

I can tell you for certain, that never at any point in time, would he ever be able to get Chairman Netero to activate one of his cards.
>You may have modelled it on Kite
I didn't actually, i just wanted a Hatsu based on the arcanas, but that was two many powers to give someone so I had to make it random, and I wanted to incorporate cards themselves, so I made the cards the whole technique and the arcanas are just the finishing move.

Why does Alluka?

>Could you help me come up with interesting and powerful (but not bullshit) abilities using HxH's Nen system?
>50 posts later

Looks like the answer is pretty clearly “no”.

The mechanics of Nen are about as consistent and sensible as magic in Harry Potter. It’s the kind of vague bullshit that works for media targeting teenagers, but quickly falls apart if you look too close.

Alluka is a nen-prodigy. We can't actually see into her head to see why her nen considers her behavior to be a valid negotiation for the power it gives her.

>Moon
>He could probably teleport him away,he didn't need to see the last person he used it on.
Maybe, but Tarot guy would have to be a fucking idiot to not take immediate advantage of his opponent not being able to comprehend him
>World
>I feel like you're really underestimating Chrollo
I think you don't understand the finality of the word "instantaneous". If it was hyperbolic now is the time to fess up. I'm only playing off the rules you set for the guy.
>Strength
>It's not gonna help him again the book
Alright. We've reached a point where it's obvious you don't understand scale. The average untrained male punches at 100lbs of pressure. The average trained male will punch anywhere between 500lbs at flyweight to 1,300lbs at super heavyweight. Kicks do more force with Gold medallist reaching over a ton of force. Multiply those by 100x and you skip over Dragonball and hit Dragonball Z levels of fists equating explosions. You made the multiplication too high for Chrollo to survive the general vicinity. Tarot could punch the ground a Chrollo is taken out.

>What? What non-combat use?
I was referring to escaping. Or the Tower just being an effective block.

>That's the idea. You don't get to choose.
You asked us if it was broken. The answer is an undeniable yes. If he's to be dealt with outside of combat then you don't need to talk about balance. But do bear in mind everyone will be saying how crazy it is you just made a god of gambling.

Ways it could be more balanced:
He's permanently prevented from using any other kind of nen. With the cards aside, he's exactly as weak and fragile as a normal human

Once a card has been picked, he needs to explain what it does for the effect to trigger

I like 's suggestion and think it fits well, though I'd add that that the restriction preventing him from using any other nen stays active in this place. If he wants a strong ability, he needs something big to be at stake. It's not like this kind of restriction would be anything particularly new either, Cheetu is the first that comes to mind.

As for a few of the cards themselves, here's how they could be toned down
Strength: the boost only applies when specifically used in pursuit of or on that target. He can attack stuff that gets in the way, but can't go out of his way to use it on anything he doesn't need to
Hanged Man: The duration is based on the strength of who it's used on, with stronger opponents getting out of it faster. Think of it as having a limited capacity of sorts.
The Tower: They're both trapped there until one of them is dead. He's nenless but has knowledge of the tower and traps, the opponent has all their abilities
The Moon: seems balanced if he has no other abilities
The World: seems gimmicky, maybe have the en be focused on the target and move with them?

>God of gambling
Apparently he isn't a gambler, didn't you read ? None of the cards are going to have actual negative effects.

You said
>I'm saying no, it does not have a good explanation, similar to several characters from the source material.
Alluka is not several characters. Alluka is one character (two realistically). And even Alluka is not as peculiar as the Tarot God of Chance. She has drawbacks and can't actually use her power her self. No agency. Tarot has no drawbacks beyond a sense of disappointment that he got the atom bomb instead of the nuclear bomb

Oh no. He's totally balanced! His feefees get overcome with disappointment when he rolls wrong so it's totally okay to be the most powerful entity in existence!

>But Chrollo CAN teleport and conjure while when he uses another power, he can pick and choose any of the powers he has, he just has to turn one off to use another one, he doesn't get locked to a random one. The cards are like getting a different weapon everyday, the book as like having a whole arsenal, but only one hand.
So? Chrollo has an arsenal at his disposal that he must chose wisely. He only has one hand. Sure each weapon is quite useful and Chrollo overall is overpowered, 5/7 rolls Tarot kills him. 6 if he can escape after realising he rolled death

Tarot is disgustingly broken

>but not bullshit
O

Yeah that leaves out the one we've all been talking about

What are some interesting drawbacks to take on in exchange for more powerful abilities? I think that's the really interesting stuff Nen has going for it.

As for an actual power, I think I'd play a character who can use nen for super sleuthing, basically expanding their aura to get information from his surroundings, including stuff like geiger counter numbers, wind speed, dust patterns and such. The drawbacks would be giving up his hearing, and also a Sherlock Holmes reference in that he has to avoid learning unrelated skills/information.

You could probably just get the same effect with a conjured object without the drawbacks.

>I can tell you for certain, that never at any point in time, would he ever be able to get Chairman Netero to activate one of his cards.
Bullshit
>At Hunter Association
>Walking around
>See Chairman Netero
>Hear he's quite strong
>PICK A CARD!
>He looks at me
>He's bemused
>I'm holding a hand of cards
>Gee I hope I get Strength so I can impress him
>Or Moon to surprise him
>Maybe it'll be Hermit
>I hope he has a sense of humour
>Oh god I hope it's not Tower
>He draws
>I FEEL IT
>IT'S
>He looks at the card
>Still bemused
>He holds it up
>DEATH
>Shit, bad draw
>"So are you going to tell my fortune then?"
>Err.....
>There's no way I'm telling him he thirteen hours to live
>My haxx as shit powers don't dictate shit
>I am not telling him anything
>As far as I know I can't turn it off anyway
>He's still looking at me
>Still bemused
>This is awkward
>I just killed Netero
>He doesn't even know
>Fuck
>This truly is fanfiction tier

Manipulation
He manipulates his senses to heighten them. But distraction cause disorientation and headaches. Thus he reduces his own hear to prevent unwanted surprises. Loss of focus while "in the zone" causes a sense of unease. Focus is important to him when heightened

I don't want to play a conjurer. They're overrated and frankly broken

>I don't want to play a conjurer. They're overrated and frankly broken
>Kurapika's master continously tells him they're pointless because all the stuff you can summon are better quality when forged
>Fastforward to Kite conjuring a brand new body for himself that somehow gets born inside the Queen Chimera Ant who didn't eat him and births him/her as a human baby and I still don't get any of that

Perhaps the heightened senses are constant so in order to dull himself and blockout the unease he takes drugs and binges when not working

The problem is thw author got rid of the limitation on making magic shit. When first introduced, that type of nen seems like it's about making stuff on the fly, but in practice, because all the characters have a mainstay gimmick, it turns into "I summon my magic item that does shit from all the other disciplines"

>can't actually use her power her self.
What a coincidence, neither can he.

>He's permanently prevented from using any other kind of nen.
This is pretty much a death sentence, as i means he can't use Gyo.
>Once a card has been picked, he needs to explain what it does for the effect to trigger
This is something I can work with, make him closer to the bomber. I think I' also going to add that he has to explain that touching the cards with aura activates them.
>Strength
Eh, it's already one of the like, 3 that are not already single target.
>hanged man
That sound fine to me
>The tower
That could work, but i'd change it to hatsu-less, as he's still dead if he can't use Gyo
>The moon
He wouldn't.
>The world
They're supposed to be gimmick, and having the En move takes away it's only downside.

>If it was hyperbolic now is the time to fess up.
It's instant transmission rules. The translocation itself is instant, but you still have to take the moment for the thought process of deciding where to go.
>Multiply those by 100x and you skip over Dragonball and hit Dragonball Z levels of fists equating explosions.
Very early DBZ maybe. You're not gonna create an explosion hitting the ground with 100,000 lbs of force. You'll make a little crater, sure, but I thinks that's reasonable for something that's supposed to be a near-guaranteed win.
>You asked us if it was broken
Yes I did, and appreciate all the thought people are giving it, and I'm taking these notes into consideration. But most people aren't focusing on the card part, which is the main part of the technique, they're focusing on the arcana part, which is meant to be the final move portion of the technique.
The idea is that while he doesn't have any fancy attacks or techniques, you have to fight him without touching these cards, that's the fight. If you touch one, you're already in a "activated my trap card" scenario and have pretty much already lost, but it's "left up to fate", represented by the result being random. At this point you're chances of winning are supposed to be very low, but there's always a chance you'll draw an arcan that's useless against you.

>What a coincidence, neither can he.
Bullshit. He's then one using 3 of them

It's almost impossible not to activate the cards. He says three words and that's that really. If he's not an adept fighter then he'll sneak them onto you or trick you into touching them. Given how such power is easier to activate then Gon' Ja-Jan-Ken it's not as if it'll be difficult to activate them. A fight is assured really.

Alluka's ability can't be used selfishly. She's literally forced to grant the wishes of other people.

That's not a coincidence at all. He's actively using the Moon, World and Strength cards directly. More over you seem to conveniently forget that you stated that HE is the one that telepathically controls the cards. He's choosing when to use the ability and at whom to target. Alluka doesn't have any of this freedom. She can't choose when to use the wishes, whom for and she can't choose the outcome. She isn't any more than a vessel. Meanwhile Tarot is an active agent with a gambling mechanic.

You're just being disingenuous now

As I said all the way back at the beginning Your guy does not have to tell his target shit other than the phrase "pick a card" and does have to physically be close to the intended target or endanger himself like the Bomber does when closing the gap. Add to that that instead on one human sized initiator the target has 22 cards telepathically flying at then from multiple angles to worry about.

>It's supposed to be that if you get to the point that he could activate a hatsu, you're already pretty fucked.
It's easy (comparatively) for him to pull these off. Three words and they activate versus the Bomber's manual. the physical contact doesn't come from him personally and has 22 possible activators.

We went over this. It's far too easy to activate. Three words. No par for the course explanation. 22 flying manoeuvrable objects and one man who can spend his time avoiding being hit by you while attacking you with the cards. From 22 angles. He's broken from the very beginning

Saying "Pick a card" is what conjures them, he can't just slip them in your pocket without you noticing. And I decided earlier I'm gonna have him also have to explain that they're activated by aura before he can use them.
Now, against normal people, they'd be impossible to avoid, but in a world with people like "move faster than I can think" Killua, "Instant automatic katana slash" Nobunga, and "Sonic boom by punching" Netero, it's a strong, but not unbeatable technique.

>"move faster than I can think"
I feel like I need to something point out. People don't actually think fast. They react without thinking. The do without thinking. They don't think particularly fast.

>Your guy does not have to tell his target shit other than the phrase "pick a card" and does have to physically be close to the intended target or endanger himself like the Bomber does when closing the gap. Add to that that instead on one human sized initiator the target has 22 cards telepathically flying at then from multiple angles to worry about.
Again, all of that is wrong, as I've said already.

Netero is an emitter.

None of this was wrong when it was said. Don't cherry pick

To be fair, Enhancers could probably do that too

It's been a while, how would conjuration work with something like a bow and arrow? Is there an appreciable difference between firing your nen via emission, vs creating a gun a crossbow and firing bolts created from nen?

Looking at the table, it seems like since it's close to transmutation and manipulation that they could have some degree of synergy though.
Conjure + Transmutation = Ropes that change material based on what ever touches them. Try to cut them off? Ropes turn to metal. Try to burn them off? Ropes start to burn/change to a substance that can't be burnt.
Conjuration + Manipulation = A whistle that gives anybody who hears it a headache. (or just golems/minions maybe?)
Etc. etc.

Without getting creative or making huge contracts to get things on the level of the vacuum or something, it seems like conjuration's "baseline" should be a kind of shitty Shirou/batman, it turns into how fast you can make complex constructs, and the user's ability to multi-task. I don't think it's reasonable for a conjurer to go full Gil-"summon a swarm of swords that shoot at you"-gamesh, but creating shields/armour/swords just as fast as they can be broken or creating a grenade hidden behind your shield while in a fight so you can use it as a surprise, seems like the "traditional" growth path for what a conjurer could have been.

He can use the CARDS, yes. But until someone else activates them, that's all they are.

How would you properly scale high risk-high reward abilities in your game? We know giving your life for your nen is the highest, but whats before that?

Cards he is actively chasing people with. His situation is NOTHING like Allukas. You were wrong to compare them

But it was when you just repeated it.

And everything else you ignored? You're cherry picking

Going blind afterwords would probably give you a damn strong boost.
all I was saying was both their origin of how they learned there powers are poorly explained.

Here you said
>can't actually use her power her self.
>What a coincidence, neither can he.

We're only trying to help. You asked us if we thought Tarot was broken. When you make a clear mistake, we'll point it out. Why lie? There's no need to cover anything up. We're just trying to help

Hmm, okay. Let's go over the rest
>It's easy (comparatively) for him to pull these off. Three words and they activate versus the Bomber's manual.
This is wrong
>the physical contact doesn't come from him personally and has 22 possible activators.
Yes, but they're either very close to him or stationary.
>We went over this. It's far too easy to activate. Three words. No par for the course explanation.
This is wrong
> 22 flying manoeuvrable objects and one man who can spend his time avoiding being hit by you while attacking you with the cards. From 22 angles. He's broken from the very beginning
This is solved by staying more that a meter away from him.

You're right, you're right. People just really seem to be getting the impression he can use the arcanas whenever he wants.

>This is wrong
Again it was right at the time. And you only changed it a couple posts before I repeated myself.
>the physical contact doesn't come from him personally and has 22 possible activators.
Yes, but they're either very close to him or stationary.
While flying through the air.
>This is wrong
Again, you've changed this since. At the time I wrote that line I hadn't read the post where you changed it.
>This is solved by staying more that a meter away from him.
You've never mentioned his max range was only a meter before. You only mentioned "nearby"

I do feel he has ridiculously few drawbacks for next to no cost. At worst it seems to merely be inconvenience.

Not to mention he has huge power, however unruly, for no sacrifice beyond having to use his brain to set up the relatively simple conditions

Putting it bluntly, it's a mary sue situation. The guy needs a drawback suiting at least some of his huge potential