Is Darth Vader weaker or stronger than Anakin?

>Well we know that going to the Dark Side doesn't mean you are stronger by default.
The implication here is that Darth Vader is attuned to the dark side than Anakin, but I'd argue that is false.

The dark side is attuned to anger, fear, anxiety and actions that assuage those emotions, and in that regard Anakin is far more in the dark side than Darth Vader, who is far more calm and collected (outside of occasionally being exasperated by an underling).

You can appear to be calm and collected while not even being remotely calm and collected.

The dude chopped off his son's hand. He's got anger issues.

Lol are you stupid? Didn't you see the movie? Darth Vader killed Luke's father, Anakin.

To be fair, the object of Anakin's love was pretty worthless, and the only way to save her had nothing to do with her. The object of Darth Vader's love was rather capable, and until the final moment of truth the only way to save him lay within himself.

Also questionable employee discipline practices. Anakin wore his negative emotions on his sleeve because he wasn't used to them and, until the end, actively tried to avoid them. Darth Vader seemed relatively emotionless most of the time because he'd been stewing in negative emotions long enough to consider them a form of meditation.

From a certain point of view.

Anakin’s anger was the type of person who flipped out when his buttons are pressed and is super sorry about it later because he knows he’s got unresolved issues.
Vader is that guy who’s normal every single day at work and then because he hates everyone and everything in his life he goes home and beats his wife bloody as a way to vent and stay in control while at work.

Imperial officers are the abused housewife in this metaphor.

>he'd been stewing in negative emotions long enough to consider them a form of meditation.

Exactly, Anakin actively tried and failed to get rid/mange his negative emotions.

Darth Vader has simply accepted those negative emotions and lets them fuel his actions.

Through this, Vader is more in tune with the Dark Side.

What do you tell an Imperial Officer with two black eyes?

Much weaker, fewer body parts means fewer Midochlorians.

Vader was more powerful. Anakin went full dark side at the end but it didn't quite "click" with him until post-transformation. One of the books showed it well. I think it was "Darth Vader: Rise of The Dark Lord" or something along those lines. Too lazy to look it up.

Nah, Midochlorians are actually concentrated and produced in the brain and then spread throughout the body evenly based on the the brain's production.

Weaker. He lost a lot of blood when he was maimed, which means he lost a ton of midichlorians.

>You have failed me for the last time.

He is weaker for he has nothing.

Lucky to be alive?

"Thank God he didn't just choke you to death like Steve"

Nothing, you already told him twice.

You got me laughing like a fucking idiot.

Be happy you ain't been choked yet.

I thought midochlorians didn't produce the force, just were attracted to those strong in it.

As clumsy as he is stupid.

...

Both are true, the number of midochlorians are just correlated with a strong link to the Force, but the Force is part of life and becoming a cyborg made him weaker.

>Darth Vader has simply accepted those negative emotions and lets them fuel his actions.
Not at all. He doesn't act on his hatred and anger at all, except at the end of RotJ, when he kills the Emperor.

>Much weaker, fewer body parts means fewer Midochlorians.
Midochlorians are nothing compared to the power of the Force.

I'm not a huge Star Wars geek, but I think the brief stretch of time between Anakin being christened "Darth Vader" and when he gets rekt by Obi-Wan on Mustafar was the peak of his power, but he was also unrefined. He was more of a threat after he got the suit and spent 20-ish years acting as the Emperor's enforcer.

That said, I do know that anger and pain are supposed to be Dark Side boosters and Vader had plenty of anger and pain following killing his wife (and, as far as he knows, unborn child) and suffering such awful wounds at Obi-Wan's hands. So I guess missing all his limbs takes a toll on his connection to the Force or something.

Vader killed Anakin, so he must be stronger

There is really no way to prove whether or not Anakin was stronger once he took to the Dark Side simply because he was killing helpless non-jedi targets.

Certainly he had more body automony and therefore agency to enjoy life and make choices. The Darth Vader suit is like trading your character's dick so he gets a strength & AC bonus.
Meanwhile Luke beats him in a lightsaber duel, so probably Anakin was more combat adaptable while Vader simply endures it through some sort of pain mantra.

I also hear his Vader suit is a fancy oldman walker with life alert and designed poorly and with low funding to irritate Anakin and keep him miserable and spiteful

Pretty sure he had to fight other Jedi knights during the attack on the temple. Surely it wasn't JUST younglings.

And there was also the Obi-Wan duel.

Weaker. Bionics weaken your connection to the force.

This.

Which of the two was the better friend?

Nonsense.

Is this shadowrun?

Don't go lying to people on the internet user, not cool. Darth Vader was explicitly stated to have killed Luke's father, who is Anakin.

This also proves Darth Vader is the stronger one

>chops his son's hand off
>chokes officers left and right
>doesn't act on his hatred and anger

who would win in a fight. Sidious or Papatine?

Clearly Sidious.

winning post

also, i think being made into an 8-foot tall super strong tireless cyborg machine whose anger was turned from uncontrollable red hot rage into icy cold purpose was pretty good icing on the cake

Force is basically an universal lifeforce, droids don't have any force sensibility and being mutilated reduces your power. (Especially if you are forced to make the Force acts through metal limbs to use a lightsaber)

But that's canonically wrong.

He's weaker, but think of it this way.

Darth Vader is in constant pain. Every second of every moment of the day, he's in agony. He's a quadurable amputee, and he's moving in a shell of his own body.

That's probably why Vader acts the way he does. He must be pissed-off as hell, every second of the day. It's like being surrounded by idiots who just won't shut up - After a while, all you think is "Fuck that guy" and "Fuck this guy in particular."

Anakin was stronger with the force, stronger in body, but very unwise and impatient. Anakin's youthful foolishness makes him weaker than his Darth Vader self, but Anakin would be stronger than Darth if he had Darth's lifetime of experience. It's sorta like how your IQ starts going down after about year 22 or so, but being older gives you more knowledge, experience and wisdom that more than compensate for the decrease smarts.

How So? Ww talking how much can they bench? Cause all of Darth's robo limbs make him pretty beastly. Yeah, his bck and shoulders might cry if h pushes... but they're already crying all the damn time what with the no skin and all. Or the nerves are just dead at this point. or his armor has pain supressant functions... or he kils the pain with the force.

Using the Force to choke a bitch? it has to go to Little Orphan Annie there. Droids can't use the force, because they're not alive. There's a whole lot of Darth that isn't alive anymore. Now, it's true that size matters not and all that maters is your way of thinking... but do you really think the EMPEROR is going to further Darth Vader's force training THAT much? At best... at BEST they're even. And I say, even if I'm actually wrong about his cyber limbs mucking his force powers up, he's still let his Force control atrophy because

When we're talking sabre fu it's Darth by lightyears. The only other thing Darth Vader obsessed over more than his saber skill was healing his burnt ass and getting out of that armor. And we all know how good the Dark Side is at Healing, don't we folks? Vader would lock himself in a room with DOZENS of the very best battle droids, max dificulty and set to KILL with lightsabres of their own for a light spar.

Thin about it? He gets his damn arm chopped off by Dooku, second best swordsman in the glaxy (at lesat, Dooku and Yoda are the only ones who ever beat Mace Windu in formal sabre duels that Jedi used to test their skills) Then he gets his ass kicked by Kenobi. All the force shit they fling at each other and it comes down to a simple swing of a lightsabre. laser sword fights took his arms and legs from him. He was determined never to loose another one.

obviously weaker, he had to have a fancy woodoo-hide polished suit with life support functions on 24/7
having a weaker physical form does not actually grant you stronger powers with the force

Maybe I'm just retarded but I always thought Vader looked to be the significantly better swordsman not because of flipply spinny moves but the lack of them.

Why expend the energy to do 50 backflips and make a flurry of blows when you could instead parry->killing blow and only move your arm about one foot? There's no reason to rely on acrobatics when you have skill out the ass at dueling.

It's like the anime trope where the MC does his bullshit drawn out super move but the antagonist no-sells it because "hes 2 stronk/skilled/willful/whatever".

Fun fact: Christopher Lee didn't do any of the that wirefu crap not because he was too old, but because he loved the shit out of fencing irl.

Stronger

Anakin can do that 'skip frames to run at 300 MPH because Lucas can't direct' thing they did in TPM.
Vader only walks like a blind man in a hot plastic suit, and later new-EU requires him to fucking use the force to walk.

There's one of the post prequel novels where Vader's internal momologue bitches about how his armor and Frankenstein's monster movements gimp his saber skillz.

>Maybe I'm just retarded but I always thought Vader looked to be the significantly better swordsman not because of flipply spinny moves but the lack of them.
>Why expend the energy to do 50 backflips and make a flurry of blows when you could instead parry->killing blow and only move your arm about one foot? There's no reason to rely on acrobatics when you have skill out the ass at dueling.

Thats because in the original trilogy they had real fucking fencing instructors teaching the actors how to have real fucking swordfights. Then for the prequels the production values went up and suddenly there's trampolines and wire fu everywhere.

>Maybe I'm just retarded but I always thought Vader looked to be the significantly better swordsman not because of flipply spinny moves but the lack of them.

That's how they play him in Rebels. He's a juggernaut because he's that efficient in his movements, everything is perfectly timed and calculated. Not an iota of wasted action.

Sheev would wipe the floor with both

I haven't seen Rebels but his appearance in Rogue One gave a similar impression.

>Is Darth Vader weaker or stronger than Anakin?
Both, depending on your certain point of view. He can be overpowering as Vader because he cuts loose and uses the Force in ways Jedi forbid. There is very little restraint and subtlety in Vader once he's off his leash.

But at the same time he's a slave to his own dark ambitions, and also a rather more literal bitch to Sidious. It's only once Anakin reasserts himself that he finally shows enough strength to chuck his bad boss down a reactor vent.

So basically to the Jedi Anakin showed his true strength when he resisted the darkness within himself. To them Vader is a seeming paradox that exposes the lie of the Dark Side. He can be an overpowering badass on the battlefield and yet for all his brutal mastery of the Force he's still a slave to his own passions amped up to self-destructive levels.

You get some of this kind of dynamic in Episode III. When Yoda fought Sidious the self-declared Emperor was unleashing his fuel brutality in the form of his signature lightning, however he is seen to visibly panic when Yoda repels it and the energy coalesces into a giant ball between them. In that scene Yoda is demonstrating the power of literally resisting the Dark Side. Yoda's ability to defend with the Force was ultimately stronger than the Emperor's ability to attack, though when the energy exploded Yoda still caught the worst of it since he fell a lot further and had to quit the fight. There was no way he could really finish the job anyway given their established timeline. Honestly it's a lot more dramatic and subtle when Luke spoils the Emperor's day by just saying no. He certainly couldn't defend himself against the lightning, honestly it will probably be for the best he never learns Yoda could defend against that shit and never bothered to teach him the technique, but at least it exposes that for all the Emperor's power and scheming he just cannot get everything he wants. He failed.

Vader is goddamn frightening in that scene, though I find it spoiled if you imagine Prequel, or better yet, The Clone Wars Anakin in that scene.

"No, Anakin, you're just showboating. Jesus, dude, did you have to slam the guy's face into the ceiling before slashing his ass? What would Yoda say?"

Yeah, on a macro level so much of what he's doing is unnecessary and it gives the rebels the opportunity to hand off the Death Star plans to someone who isn't about to be slaughtered, but each individual action is precise, calculated, efficient, and brutal. Each rebel is dealt with swiftly and efficiently, but since his objective was "retrieve the plans" and not "slaughter whoever is in front of you" he could have just yanked the one with the plans towards him with the Force.

In legends the suit is often described as making him weaker as his body was less man, and he was less in tune with the force as a result. Canon sources describe the suit as making him stronger through the agony it inflicts in him, which he uses to fuel his connection to the dark side.

In short: depends on the author.

I don't think I'd call it efficient. That would have been using his TK to push all the Rebels in the back wall, crushed against the bulkhead. He was needlessly showing off. Hell, try watching the scene with this playing:

youtube.com/watch?v=c71RCAyLS1M

This isn't to say Vader was actually fucking up, per se. Sure he did screw up his mission by accident, but that was a display of pure Sithing. He was reveling in his hate and anger and instilling fear in the rebels, however short lived.

I believe its along the line of the fact that on Mustafar Anakin is top tier of his power, but Obi Wan is the perfect counter to that power due to his fighting style. Basically Obi Wan was the only one that could defeat him at the time, which would make Vader getting wrecked by luke even worse

There's an interview with George Lucas where he talks about Vader being weaker because of everything he'd lost and how pre-Mustafar he could have become stronger than the Emperor but after his injuries he'd never rise to that level. I don't feel like bothering to google it, though. It's from Rolling Stones, circa...2005, I think?

Not just being a lazy piece of shit, my view on George is that he changes his mind, a lot, over time so who knows if it was still his view even before he sold Star Wars. At least after the sale they give no indications of Vader as anything other than a pure powerhouse. The Lords of the Sith novel has some interesting psychology from Vader's perspective, his views on Yoda's teachings, and how he feels they were holding him back as his hate, anger, and even the pain of his mutilated body fuel his powers. Also an interesting bit, Vader apparently only feels the pain when his suit is unsealed. When he's fully integrated he feels complete, as if his cybernetics are a true part of him, but even when he doesn't feel the pain of his wounds he's still aware of them enough that he doesn't lose his rage. Kind of edgy, but that's Sith for you.

If the sith were not drowning in edge, it would just feel wrong

Oh what the hell, here's the interview. Thinking about it Lucas probably didn't change his view only because ultimately in the story he has Sidious wanting to trade Vader in for a newer model.

rollingstone.com/movies/news/george-lucas-and-the-cult-of-darth-vader-20050602

>You got it. And when he finds out Luke is his son, his first impulse is to figure out a way of getting him to join him to kill the Emperor. That's what Siths do! He tries it with anybody he thinks might be more powerful, which is what the Emperor was looking for in the first place: somebody who would be more powerful than he was and could help him rule the universe. But Obi-Wan screwed that up by cutting off his arms and legs and burning him up. From then on, he wasn't as strong as the Emperor – he was like Darth Maul or Count Dooku. He wasn't what he was supposed to become. But the son could become that.

That's what, for me, made Darth Maul's return worthwhile. Such a screwy thing having him live and even survive almost into ANH, but you get a real sense of the tragedy of the Sith. His life could have been so much better if he'd just managed to stop being a giant bag of backstabbing dicks. At best he might have found a kind of home for himself, started a new life and found peace, but, no, he grows old on his bitterness and broken destiny and remains alone. Even if he wanted revenge he could have worked with the Rebellion, let them use his knowledge about the Emperor's true nature and powers. He could have been invaluable and possibly helped them achieve victory.

His path cost him his brother, the Nightsisters (okay, that was mostly Talzin's fault), and every chance for something approaching normalcy. Once you become the Dark Side's bitch forever will it dominate the ass you actually no longer have because your dark path got it lopped off. Maybe partly to blame since he was raised as a Sith since being abducted by Sidious as a child.

The saddest part is how his ambitions seem to shrink and shrink too, he's so desperate to just win for once that he's willing to settle for the suggestion that someone he hates will loose.

He has more focus and does more with the Force than Ani ever could. But lore(if it counts since its in EU books that are no loner canon) says he lost a huge amount of his potential strength when he lost so much of his organic tissue and all the Medichlorians... Ugh, whatever I like Vader more anyway.

As someone who hasn't seen Rebels but knows what happens to Maul there, I think it says a lot about what the Dark Side does to you that he ultimately went after Obi-Wan rather than Sidious.

Anakin is awash in anger. Vader has filled himself with hatred. Vader is stronger in the Dark Side.

>droids can't use the force

Do you dare doubt the might of Skippy?

wut

Fuck that canon-raping garbage.

Skippy knows all, user.

Also there's totally a girl yoda.

Now now, we don't know that for certain. Only the puppeteer with his hand up Yaddle's backside knows for sure.

WELL...
From my opinion Vader is stronger for a couple of reasons. 1st reason is that all of the Jedi were dead, and for some weird reason, the sith seem to get stronger if they are able to dominate the force when less people use it.

That's why the rule of 2 is so potent. The less chefs in the kitchen, the stronger the soup.

Second Reason, is vader has tempered his rage into a constant. Anakin "used" to be a good boy, but it wasn't like he was living in the force. He had a girlfriend, went on adventures, and was a kid. The force for him was a cool trick. Anakin would be like how we are. He was passionate about the force because it fundamentally was >cool.

Vader is a full sith. That philosophy, that religion, is about constantly living in your emotions and passions, and then ruling them.

A dark side adept has goals and ambitions and lives in situations, but is overcome by the wave of power that is the dark side. A sith is fueled to move by his passions and ambitions. They eat, drink and breathe the dark side. It's not some neat trick that gives them more power than usual Jedi techniques, it's what they live in.

Would Vader have been more powerful in his own body? Only with the Sith mind. But it was his pain that pushed him into that calm, it was his despair that pushed him there.
Before that, he was still advancing on the high ground.

Vader hates on a whole different frequency/phase.
And it makes him calm, and quiet and potent as fuck.

Nice proofs faggot.

>When first post is, in fact, the best post

When Anakin first got gibbed on Mustafaar, Siddeious had him put in a shitty suite with inhibited reactions, uncomfortable functionality and the whole thing was designed to punish Vader for ruining his potential so thoroughly; he was planning on having a proper apprentice, and wound up with someone/thing that scarcely qualified as a servitor with how badly damaged he was after that fight.

So, Vader gets a torture suit to keep him alive. Being in constant agony and having to work past the inhibitions built into it does miracles for his connection to the dark side. Constantly in pain, drawing on the force to get by, and his new HQ overlooking the lava fields where he'd been ruined, Vader's diminished talents are augmented several times over.

Over the years, Palpatine figures it's time to test/kill/replace his "Apprentice". Several dead assassination attempts later, Vader prooves that he is Still formidable, able, and deadlier than literally anyone else the Emperor has on his payroll. The offer to make Vader a proper suit that will function properly, improve his strength and work as a full biomechanical extension of himself is made.

Vader refuses.

The suffering of his situation sharpened his connection to the dark side, gave him something he could always draw on for more power, kept him alive and made his presence inspire fear and awe even if his reputation didn't precede him.

The emperor is pissed, thinking Vader is refusing to become what is demanded of him, but eventually there's a measure of understanding in that Darth Vader is none the less still peerless as a Dark Lord of the Sith.

Anakin could have been powerful, but never shows the kind of dedication needed to succeed in doing so. The circumstances that made Vader left him with no choice but the path to power.

Maybe Anakin would have been stronger if he'd developed his talents effectively, or lasted into venerable years as a Jedi, but when E3 Anakin is compared to E4 Vader, Vader reigns.

If it helps, Vader isn't capable of love. Vader is Anakin's emotions twisted by the Dark Side. His love becomes greed, his loyalty becomes betrayal, his compassion becomes domination. Yoda tried to warm him about letting people of his attachments for this very reason. Love isn't bad, but it is nevertheless dangerous to a Jedi. All their emotions can be which is why they stress calm, being at peace.

Vader's first reaction to learning about his son was pure Sith. How do I use this kid to become more powerful and defeat the Emperor so I can take over? Luke's complete rejection of Vader complete with near committing suicide seems to shake Vader to his core. This rejection seems to be what starts to rekindle Anakin's spirit within Vader. You can see the look on Piett's face after the Falcon escapes how he expected to be choked to death like every other officer who failed Vader in ESB.

The Prequels are about Vader growing within Anakin and slowly gaining more and more influence on over him. The OT is about Anakin growing stronger within Vader and slowly gaining more and more influence over him. It culminates in both breaking free and asserting themselves.

This is pure Lucas pottery.

>Before that, he was still advancing on the high ground

Quite the opposite, I believe

As Darth Vader, his every action is that of anger and hatred

It is his default setting, until Luke arrives into the picture and speaks to him as a father

Anakin has to use a lot of the force just to power his suit which is basically life support

Pretty sure darth vader is the only sith who can use the force without an associated movement, but he only had to learn how because loosing his limbs crippled his body and by extension his force abilities. He's powerful, but only because hes a master of his ciecumstances. Anakin is in his prime, his power is just what he can naturally achieve and is therefore much more powerful

Tldr
Olympic fencer with a butter knife versus top 1000 fencer with an actual sword

That would be the case if the prequels showed us more than a glimpse of an Anakin that wasn't a brooding teenager. We go from episode 1 where he was some kid straight to episode 2 and all the development of a good Jedi was supposed to have taken place between there. Then in 2 we're given the increasingly disgruntled Anakin who's frustrated with his master and starts complaining about him at the earliest opportunity, then goes full genocide, throws himself at enemies with ridiculous and even stupid passion and looses and arm because "pottery", and gives right into his attachment to Padme. Nobody even considered not sending him, the angsty lust filled, barely post-pubescent boy on a romantic getaway alone with his crush to space venice though, so apparently nobody paid enough attention to him to see the obvious, so it's little surprise he turned out the way he did. Whatever the case I never felt like I saw the Anakin that Ben reminisced about so fondly. We go from podracing child, to localized genocide of savages, to "from my point of view the younglings are evil".

>and looses and arm because "pottery"
The most frustrating part about that was that the scene where Luke lost his hand against Vader was already echoed in RotJ when Vader lost his hand to Luke.

Only part of that book I liked was the chapter where Vader explained he’s made of substandard parts that make him really shitty at everything and he suffers from claustrophobic panic attacks.

wingletblackbird.tumblr.com/post/166960359793/a-nurturing-environment

Relevant to this thread: Anakin’s development from a child-psych type of view

Dont forget about the beeping

I love the explanation in rogue one for why Vader is so mad at the beginning of New Hope.
>we don’t have the plans, were on a diplomatic mission
>I literally saw your buddy hand the plans off to you right before I chopped him in half, do you think I’m stupid

Alright. There's been a lot of answers here, but not very many accurate ones.

Anakin, pre-Mustafar, according to George, had the potential to be twices as powerful as Sidious.

Post-Mustafar, George said he will only be able to max out at 80% of Sidious' strength.

Darth Vader was stronger in the Force but with a lower ceiling on his power (which honestly by all accounts I'd say probably he never reached) than Anakin, who although weaker had a much higher ceiling.

Him becoming Darth Vader, the suit-wearing monster we all know, gave him resolve and purpose that he lacked as Anakin.

Vader does not use the Force to power his suit. That's literally never been a thing. The closest you'll come to that is in the last arc of Darth Vader (2015), when his suit is shut down by a remote trigger from the guy who created it, and Vader kept moving out of sheer will.

Dude, just because someone kills someone else doesn't make that person more powerful. It just means that the person who got killed was vulnerable to the person who killed him.

I mean, would YOU say that Luke Skywalker is more powerful than the Death Star?