/5eg/ - Fifth Edition General

Heavy armor is gonna get cucked AGAIN by no-life wizards come xgte
>already get stealth disadvantage and 1455GP more expensive armor for a measly 1AC
>now won't even be able to enjoy that AC
Enjoy having 9AC during ambushes and shit, martials

Which is the best out of druidcraft, prestidigitation and thaumaturgy?

What?

...

There'll be new rules with penalties for sleeping and medium and heavy armor. Light armor, as always, is unscathed.

>Already have my predetermined best spells
>See what other people suggest
>'WHY AREN'T THEY PICKING THE SPELL I LIKE?'
What was the point in looking in the first place?

>Enjoy having 9AC during ambushes and shit, martials
Heavy armour rest rules?
Yeah, all the more reason to fucking burn XGE

>most of the time it's too risky to fuck with unless it was a situation you could just talk someone out of.
You can use it to get things (not just people) to do things they wouldn't otherwise do. It just has to sound reasonable, which is perfectly vague enough to be abused depending on your DM. Supplement it with a few deception/persuasion/intimidation checks before hand to set up anything you want to demand as "reasonable" and go to town.
>Cloud of daggers seems like a great synergy ability. Cast it, 3d4 automatic. They move. Have someone push them back in, they take another 3d4. Their turn comes around, another 3d4. Do it with a warlock with repelling blast or something.
This is the kind of crap I'm talking about. It has too many moving parts to be useful. Why would your ally push them when they could just make an attack, probably doing more damage? It's concentration too, so you use up your concentration instead of something actually useful like a debuff or utility. It's also dependent on the terrain. Unless it's a narrow corridor ( in which case why aren't the enemies just temporarily retreating to avoid the CLOUD OF FUCKING DAGGERS HOLY SHIT ) they can just...go around and now they can't be pushed into the cloud of daggers you used a spell slot on. I look at cloud of daggers and I see an inferior magic missle: 4d4 damage.
Maybe I just hate damage spells.

Druidcraft can tell you the weather tomorrow and make you smell nice

Prestiditation can clean you and dry you off

Thaumaturgy makes you real loud

Presidigiation is best in my opinion

Outside of flavour stuff it's mainly a question of whether you want the power to light and snuff out fires at will (druidcraft and prestigitation) or cause windows and doors to open and shut at a distance (thaumaturgy). Those are the most substantial effects.

They're all decent for trickery but prestigitation is probably best at that, while thaumaturgy is better at impressing people with a show of power, and druidcraft is less showy but lets you predict the weather.

just ignore the rules

>You can use it to get things (not just people) to do things they wouldn't otherwise do. It just has to sound reasonable, which is perfectly vague enough to be abused depending on your DM. Supplement it with a few deception/persuasion/intimidation checks before hand to set up anything you want to demand as "reasonable" and go to town.
The problem is that, unless I'm remembering this wrong, they'll sooner or later work out that you tried to manipulate them magically whether you succeed or not. I don't think it specifies, but I imagine a lot of DMs would have it work that way considering you're saying things to them and using magic and it should be possible to tell. I should probably double check with my DM.
>This is the kind of crap I'm talking about. It has too many moving parts to be useful. Why would your ally push them when they could just make an attack, probably doing more damage?
Battlemaster's pushing attack is just an additional effect and additional damage on top of an attack.
Warlock's repelling blast comes with damage as long as they have the invocation, there's no reason they wouldn't use it.
Many other push spells such as thunderwave also deal damage, and you can cast thunderwave yourself.
Then, it's not hard for anyone, even yourself to simply attempt a grapple, it'd help if they had athletics proficiency or something though. Then there's no issue with holding them in the place, and an easy 6d4 damage is way better than most normal attacks.

Someone further explain for the forge cleric the artisan's blessing on creating simple items? I feel retarded trying to wrap my head around it.

I can create simple and martial weapons or even a full suit of armor but it cant be worth more than 100gold? Or I can use the metal from simple or martial weapons to create other stuff?

Could I make a suite of plate armor this way?

Whip user battle master is fun.

>This is the kind of crap I'm talking about. It has too many moving parts to be useful. Why would your ally push them when they could just make an attack, probably doing more damage?
yes, why would they, except, you know, monks, fighters, and warlocks, all of which are capable of pushing someone during an attack.

>Has your character ever had an apprentice?
No but he is somewhat soft-hearted for a barbarian and if he finds the right angry young person to give guidance to he probably will. Also won't likely have it in him to tell them to fuck off so any apprentice, good or bad, will be taught.

.. Continuing.
Also otherwise you can use it in a doorway, you can upcast it for more damage. If you're in a narrow corridor, you put it in the middle of the group of enemies so that they can't retreat or advance without everyone in there taking some of the damage.
And, whoops, it was 4d4 instead of 3d4, fuck me. So it's 8d4 versus a regular attack if you want to grapple an enemy into it.

It definitely has a lot of moving parts but that's what's fun about it, it synergies and encourages team co-operation and encourages the martials to do something other than attacking while also reminding the martials that they can grapple better than the wizard.

Also, it's worth noting that druidcraft and thaumaturgy have better range (30ft) than prestigitation (10ft), so druidcraft is technically better in terms of starting or snuffing fires, which in my opinion is the most useful effect.

Is the mystic not shitty yet?

I wish I could ignore XGE
but many people won't

I can't see much reason why you couldn't make a full suit of plate armor out of several separate usages of it, as long as you had the gold for materials and the 20 hours to go piece by piece. That's up to your DM though. On a whole, it's mainly useful for basic weapons, basic heavy armor, shields, and tools, specifically in the cases where running back to the town blacksmith isn't as good of an option.

Okay. And are these new rules additions to the core/basic rules, or are they optional variant rules, such as with Honor or Plot Points?

DM sold me a slave when I was looking for hireling. 10 gold worth.

So remind me what are our confirmed Greater Steed options?

>core/basic rules, or are they optional
Optional.

Don't even try to come with smug rethorics you fucking faggot. Many GMs will gladly use it without a second thought.

Dire wolf
Rhino
Pegasus
Griffin
Peryton
Saber-toothed tiger

I thought so.

Okay. Many DMs will gladly use the stuff in Volo's Guide or SCAG as well, or the Elemental spells, or...

So wht's the issue?

>they'll sooner or later work out that you tried to manipulate them magically whether you succeed or not.
Because Charm Person says "they know you used magic on them" and Suggestion having the "it must sound reasonable" on top of the lack of that specification I disagree.
And
>>For example, you might suggest that a knight give her warhorse to the first beggar she meets
implies a very vague definition of "reasonable"
>Battlemaster's pushing attack is just an additional effect and additional damage on top of an attack.
Requires the Battlemaster taking pushing attack over more generally useful options to syngerize with your spell. That's a LOT of resources going into making a spell effective.
>Warlock's repelling blast comes with damage as long as they have the invocation, there's no reason they wouldn't use it.
Same as above. There are more generally useful invocation.
>Many other push spells such as thunderwave also deal damage, and you can cast thunderwave yourself.
You want the wizard to be in melee range with a sub-par spell just to make another sub-par spell less useless?
See above
>Also otherwise you can use it in a doorway
Somewhat situational for a spell that you have to prepare ahead of time.
> it synergies and encourages team co-operation
When cooperation is less effective than just acting independently with the most effective tactics why would you do that?

In Temples, Churches, and Cathedrals do you guys usually have someone who can cure wounds or poisons/diseases?

Also is this common in your locations that worship?

@56215710
The issue is those are ok.

>So wht's the issue?
these "optional rules" are nerfing the weakest classes in the game

I'd like to see the specifics on this if possible, as in the actual reading of the rule

Also, does anyone have a scan of Xanthar's up yet? I've seen people on Reddit with pictures of the book.

You could just Not dump dex and carry a shield

I don't see why priests shouldn't gave a couple cleric levels

No armor resting just is asking for a bad time.
>I don't understand what's the problem, it's a medium encounter, guys!
>I have 9 AC and the monster successfully surprised us and my party members don't have enough passive Perception to wake up.

But user, these rules aren't nerfing monks.

I'm thinking of allowing players to have more freedom in what their casting stat is. I think it'd basically break down like this:

Bards, Warlocks: Cha or Int
Clerics, Paladins: Cha or Wis
Rangers: Int or Wis
Wizards, Eldritch Knights, Arcane Tricksters: Int only
Druids: Wis only
Sorcerers: Cha only

Would this break anything significantly? I realize if I allow multiclassing with it, it might make some class combinations more viable than they were before, but even then, would it break the game terribly?

Or other classes with alternate ac calculations

Apprentice isnt the word I would use to describe it. I like the Noble Variant for Knight so i frequently have a squire which I am teaching. We even had one of the other players take him over as a character one game when his current character died.

He built a Fighter and I got a new squire from my homeland's nobility, having successfully taught the last squire. It was pretty fun.

It does literally nothing to the monk. What are you talking about?
Why do fighter mains have such a victim mentality?

>one action to put on a shield
DEX-fag already killed an enemy and is gonna act before you again because higher initiative

>Party dumping Dex and Wisdom
>Wondering why you're having a problem with ambushes

It isn't the armor, I'll say that much

>Has your character ever had an apprentice?
He was about to be assigned one, but then the Holy Empress declared him a heretic so he had to escape the country.

This is D&D not Dragon Quest or whatever shitty jrpg you like.

>>Warlock's repelling blast comes with damage as long as they have the invocation, there's no reason they wouldn't use it.
>Same as above. There are more generally useful invocation.
Confirmed to be retarded. One of the most useful things a ranged character can take is an ability that prevents their target from engaging.

>weakest classes
>plural
>clearly he can only be speaking of one single class

Would it affect other class features that work with those stats?

It's probably only a problem for fighters, paladins, and clerics. With the exception of some dumb shit.

Paladins and clerics are both really good.

>Party member is better than me in a very specific situation
boo fucking hoo

Because Paladin is just a better Fighter.

Basically everyone I know houserules it as bonus action along with switching weapons. 5e straight up tells you to change things you don't like about it.

Well, Paladins are still damn good and they are a heavy armour class.

Probably yes, unless it would make no sense for a certain feature to work with the alternative stat.

That's a thing in JRPGs because it was a regular temple service in D&D first.
Often, but not always. I might roll for it if it's a small enough town.

>same damage
>better saves
>better skills
>can dump STR and invest point in other stats to make a better rounded character, reverse isn't true
>cheap armor
>better ranged option
The only way STR can be relevant is GWM PAM Sentinel meme and even then why aren't you just SS CBE instead? STR fags lose again.

So no? Not in your universe?

>Already gets stealth disadvantage.

Oh no, you poor diddums. The armour that allows you to dump dexterity and is worn mostly by classes without stealth proficiency makes them less good at stealth. There is basically no class that wears heavy armour and cares about that disadvantage.

Pitching into this: they are good but not because STR is a good stat.
DEX is already retard-tier good, so I dee no reason to kick STR-based characters in the nuts like that.

Doesn't excuse them from releasing shitty rules. "Do our work for us" isn't good policy.

>cheap armor

But also worse armour. Heavy Armour outclasses light armour in the AC it can provide.

>reading this threads sour grapes tirade not two days after someone had the same shitfit in the opposite direction about Strength-based martials
Like poetry.

It's fine, just sprint up to the DEXfag, grapple him, and throw him off a cliff

>Confirmed to be retarded.
Says the retard who things MORE DAMAGE and AUGMENT DAMAGE are good uses of limited class resources.
Unless your games are nothing but white room battles those are shitty unfun deceisions. What do you even do outside of combat? Probably stand around like a retard asking the group "can we just fight this guy?" because it's all you can do. Meanwhile with suggestion or charm person I can make enemies into allies on top of the out of combat utility.

Are you stupid or what? The whole discussion is that this whooping 1 extra AC won't even be used sometimes due to night battles

>streght iz bad guiz pic decks!

>on top of the lack of that specification I disagree.
But it still has a material component which means you'll need to use either a focus or a suspicious item as well as trying to make the suggestion to them. If it's something you could have possibly persuaded the guy anyway, persuasion is a lot easier to use than a spell with a DC. You can hit as high as a DC of 30 from even quite early levels (Bards/rogues), though not quite so reliably. Otherwise, you can deceive an enemy if you need to lie.
>Pushing attack isn't useful otherwise, repelling blast isn't
No, it is.
>Wizard in melee range
They can walk away again after.
>Somewhat situational for a spell that you have to prepare ahead of time.
Considering other level 2 spell damage options suck and wizards can have a lot of unprepared ritual spells, it's not too massive a dedication.
>When cooperation is less effective than just acting independently with the most effective tactics why would you do that?
Cooperation is far more effective with this. The damage is automatic, the damage hits twice if you push an enemy back into the effect and there are many ally effects that take very little commitment to use, all you need is the warlock to take repelling blast (they should have it anyway), the battlemaster to take the pushing manoeuvre, the monk to stun the enemy that's currently in the cloud of daggers, the grappler to grapple the guy, etc. Unless the rest of your team are too braindead to understand shit, it works.

Do you not have rotating watches? Not even all night battles will deny it. That +1 AC will also matter a lot during the rest of the day, as with bounded accuracy that +1 rather matters.

I'd let sorcerers cast off constitution

>wanna be strong guy
>have to dump dex because can't be good at everything
>time to infiltrate comes
>rogue, ranger and wizard are there having fun while you twiddle your fingers
>a-at least I have 1 extra AC, r-right?
>gets fire-breathed to dust while DEX guy geta out just sporting a tan

Why are strfags so insufferable? You never see melee dex fighters complaining about either no two-handed options or two weapon fighting not being great. strfags just seem to complain about everything

>sorcerers cast off Con
I'm so healthy that I'm able to cast spells

>he doesn't know about group stealth checks
you dumb fuck

To clarify pushing attack and repelling blast -
They are important.
Pushing someone automatically breaks any grapples they're using.
Pushing someone can put someone outside of attack range, thus meaning they waste their next turn.
Pushing someone can drop them off a cliff.
Pushing someone can push them into hazards.
Pushing someone can keep them away from something important such as a lever.
Pushing someone can put them back behind a door that a teammate might then shut.
Pushing someone can put them in a great position for an AoE spell.
Pushing someone can take them out of cover or make them easier to hit for the rest of the party by putting them out of position.
Pushing someone repeatedly with repelling blast can make sure they can never reach melee in time.

It's good to have someone on the team who can relocate enemies.

>LITERALLY shitting out spells

>can just escape grapples with acrobatics
lol@u

Do you also bitch about not being able to roll Arcana very well?

Why do WotC hate Strength so much?

Because they aren't Fighters of the Coast

Repelling Blast is an invocation, you know what isn't an invocation? suggestion and charm person, so it's a false equivalency. By taking repelling blast, I am not restricting myself from taking either of those spells. So yes, you are indeed retarded.

Wow, you sure showed me

Most DMs don't and think it's funny anyways when the walking tin can trips and alerts the entire enemy fortress to the stealthy party

You forgot to mention initiative

Higher initiative effectively increases your average everything output in combat

It's a small multiplier, but it may as well multiply everything

1/4 chance ambush will be on your watch doesn't solves all problems
+1AC doesn't hold up versus the disadvantages already posted and the opportunity cost of being worse at all those DEX saves

So it's bad because you have a bad GM?

We were level 5 or 6, a party of four, investigating someone's farm animals going missing, the usual quest hook.
We found a spooky forest, found nothing, and retreated outside to rest for the night.
No armor resting.
>None of you notice the invisible barlgura using three attacks on an unconscious party member, btw this is a medium encounter guys, he has three attacks and only misses on a 5 or lower because you aren't in armor.
Fuck that, no armor resting is just a DM "Gotcha" meme.
Now imagine that combined with the "You need passive Perception 15 to wake up to noise" rule also in the same book.

After playing stick of truth, I kinda want it not gonna lie

>two-handed options
One point to STR. Gotta have something, right?
>dual-wielding
It's as bad with STR as it is with DEX, what's your point here?

Surprise is determined for each player, so a guy with 30 passive perception won't be surprised but the rest of the party will still be surprised.

Are you saying we need every single player in the party to have ridiculously high perception now furthering its 'god skill' status?

>All strength martials must now take alert to make up for their lower initiative and to not get surprised
>When all strength martials aside from barbarogues already need feats

They don't complain because they're the ones with all the benefits and being given even more benefits now.

Does the DEX fag has better Arcana checks? He doesn't, so no.

This desu