Is it Evil to force Evil to fight Evil?

Is it Evil to force Evil to fight Evil?

Yes.
Doesn't matter though, do it anyway.

It would be if evil isn't aware of his evil way. Also the evil fighting the other evil may not be aware of the evilness of the adversary, so evil^evil. Moreover if yo're aware of collaterals of your scheming that wod be even more evil, so (evil^evil)^evil...

No it's not Evil to force Evil to fight Evil, although it might be evil to USE Evil to fight Evil.

According to Jesus it is.

Kinda? It's the moral bullshit territory where you choose the option that would get the least people killed. The rest will sort itself out.

Two wrongs don't make right.
But two rights make airplane.

Yes, the protagonist of Shadow of War is basically on the path towards falling to evil.

This is also why Shadow of War also works as a great allegory for CIA's covert war against the soviet union during the afghan-russian war via support for the mujahedeen.

Like, Shadow of Even More Shadowy Wars is gonna be the main protagonist dealing with the vast network of highly trained uruk-hai you've now created all over mordor whose agents are gonna fly a plane into the Two Towers.

the problem is when you've got magical elf powers that allow you to basically wipe out entire armies surgically.

And even when you need to do larger scale damage, you can mind control powerful non-sentient creatures like drakes or dire wargs.

How evil would you consider Talion in the end? Seems he'd reject the really nasty shit Elf Ghost wanted to do.

To be fair Celembrimbor wanted to go back to being really dead at the end of the first game and told Talion it was tike for them to go

Then Talion said "Would you be okay with not trying to stop Sauron for reals?"

Then they both said let's make a new ring

I was expected Celembrimbor's hate and rage to bleed into Talion a bit more but I think that only showed when "they" were unified As the "Bright Lord"

No. Force isn't evil when used for good, despite what you've heard.

In LotR it very much is. Tolkien was an anarchist, if you didn't know.

You mean like in enforced gladiatorial combat to death or something of that nature? Yes that's evil user.
To dupe one evil in to fighting another evil where the evil aggressor ultimately has free choice whether or not to attack, probably not.
To force a free willed being to fight another where they get no say in the matter is bordering on if not evil, but then on the other hand you've got factors like conscription to consider.
It entirely depends on intent and circumstances, it depends on what you mean by force to fight, do you mean literally or figuratively. Your question requires specifics to obtain a specific answer.

That's nonsense to use force to bend one to your will is not a good act, it may be a neutral act it may be an evil but one can't make the claim using force is inherently part of doing good. Goodness is very much rapt in the ideal of the ends do not justify the means.

Yeah but it's all relative and very situation-dependent. Magically forcing petty criminals like shoplifters to fight and die horribly against monsters they have no chance of beating is pretty blatantly evil but making two monsters fight each-other to keep them occupied and from slaughtering innocents is pretty acceptable in most views.
Basically violating free will is evil but depending on the view the ends can justify the means.

Individual world and personal morality systems may vary; gygax counted slavery as capital G Good given the right circumstance.

That reminds me of a lewd fantasy I had last night/this morning. Basically I work for some great kingdom as a low ranking military officer, but I get ambushed by an enemy mercenary who more or less makes me her slave. I'm dragged through an alley where some righteous monk girl intervenes and starts laying a beating on the evil mercenary chick. Even though the monk girl is clearly stronger and winning, the mercenary cheats by throwing pocket sand in her eyes and fighting dirty. After subdueing and tying up the monk girl, she forces me to mouthrape her.

Does this make the mercenary chick a lesbian? If I'm unwilling, the monk girl is unwilling but the mercenary chick clearly wants to watch me mouthrape the monk girl which one of us three is getting cucked and by whom? Your answers will determine whether fighting evil with evil is evil or not.

>d&d alignments
Any type of behavior can be justified under any alignment.

Kill yourself.

t. every tyrant and villain trying to justify their actions

?????
????
???
??
?

She's heterosexual or bisexual since she's getting off to a man interacting with a woman sexually.

No one is getting cucked is this situation unless you or the monk had a significant other.

Both of you were raped, how ever.

Only a little

Fucking what

>That reminds me of a lewd fantasy I
I cant stop laughing long enough to Finish reading this

These kind of bait threads are designed in the hope that one poster disagrees with another in the hope that an alignment argument devolves into flaming.
Ultimate foil to this kind of ruse: Be specific.

Don't tell me I'm the only one who unironically needs a convoluted narrative to get off here. I thought I was in good company.

Considering I'm not a woman nor a retard, no I don't.

>Be specific.

Oh they hate it when you do this.

It makes me so fucking hard.

Yes, because at the end of the day you're not actually removing any Evil. You're taking part in it. Possibly even multiplying it, as it makes more sides that are Evil than before.

Nope.

In fact, it's seen as a necessity in Japan and China. Only very powerful evil can defeat evil. Without evil, you cannot defeat evil. It shows up int heir philosophies and myths again and again.

Becoming evil to destroy evil is evil.
Forcing evil to engulf itself is neutral if you are ignorant of it, good if you support it, bad if you caused it.

nah, that's pretty common among older participants of Veeky Forums.

The Merc is violating the Monk via the Thrall, you. Like actual instances of rape, it's most likely about power for the Merc rather than sexual gratification, the Thrall's being a tool rather than a goal.

That sounds awesome

and no rights let you ride in an airplane

In D&D: no. It's hella fuckin' Chaotic though, like that is wildly into Chaos. Like condemned-to-Limbo tier Chaos.
So any Chaotic Good, Chaotic Neutral, or Chaotic Evil could do it.
Everyone else gets their alignment dragged towards Chaos.

You forfeit your right to be treated well by the Good when you’re Evil. Murder is wrong, but we still clear out Orc and Goblin villages and loot them.

How is it even evil? In this context anyways, you're forcing mindless Orcs to fight Orcs that would otherwise be out raping and pillaging innocent people.

oh, they're totally not mindless.
They have aspirations, goals, fears, and all that. Making them run away in fright and their infighting over goals are literally mechanics.

I mean, yes, you should be mindtaking them, but mindtaking is pretty damn evil no matter who you do it to.

I'm with you man, but I also need a convoluted analytical commentary to a convoluted narrative to get off here, and I'm not smart enough to supply one. Sorry.

D&D has the blood war though, which is condoned by even some lawful good powers.

Starting the Blood War was an act of Law, but Asmodeus and his warrior angels didn't start Evil, they just very quickly became Evil.

>The Merc is violating the Monk via the Thrall
So does that make her gay or what?

Nothing against convoluted narratives to jack off too, but moral dillemas are a bonerkill

>being this spooked

No, it is a pragmatic strategy to let two evils duke it out and then clean up later. Case in point.

>mfw at this point I actually want to get with the monk girl because she's pure and kind
>mfw I have no idea how to make that work out after having (involuntarily) mouthraped her
>mfw too autistic to "retcon" my fantasy
Send help.

Did you not read the rest of the post? It's most likely about power, not about sexual gratification for the Merc.

It seems more evil to rally a bunch of good guys to do it when there's some alternative.

>forcing
There you go

Then again, what does "mindless" even mean in this context. Is it really forcing if they're incapable of forming independent wills?

oh, they totally have independent wills. Did you play the game at all?

Wasn't it confirmed that Shadow of War was the last game in the series though? I thought they weren't doing anything else with it.

Depends on the definition of evil, if it is comic tier pure evil kind of evil, then it's not evil to force evil to fight evil, if it's subjective and it's only relative to certain group even if it is the majority, then it is evil.
It also depends on the context, killing a murderer is not evil, killing a person who will be a murderer falls in the gray zone, threatening the family of said murderer to force him to murder bad guys will certainly be evil, planting a bomb in his body and manipulate him can be evil, but doing it where there is no other way wouldn't be evil.
In short, to "force" evil you need to commit something evil yourself, the real question would be is it evil or necessary evil?

I want a Shadow of Warhammer.

Honestly, I feel like the Shadow of MordWar games would've been a lot more enjoyable if they hadn't have been set in the Tolkien universe, but instead had been their own world and story that could've been built up in the games. That way, the game wouldn't have to have slowed itself and been shackled to trying to rewrite LotR lore just to suit it, and people who would've otherwise enjoyed it would now be able to due to not needing to get upset over how lore-unfriendly it is

>This is also why Shadow of War also works as a great allegory for CIA's covert war against the soviet union during the afghan-russian war via support for the mujahedeen.
Wait, so would that make Bruz the Al-Qaida expy?

I feel like the upset part is more of an autism thing and people being unable to categorize but at the same time I don't see how this could work as a thing without people yelling "REEEEE TOLKIEN RIP OFF REEE"

That hasn't stopped the countless other Tolkien rip-offs.

I mean the concept itself is rooted Directly in Tolkien vs something inspired by it

Here's a question for you:

Is it Good to make Good fight Good?

Thats objectively evl if it's forced

...

Just stop with the autism and accept the games are some fun playable fan fiction.

Well, sure, but what would have made them even more enjoyable is if they would have been good games.

Hi r*ddit

most PC's are characters that are just willing to commit evil acts for the greater good or see the bigger picture.
I like that type of character though it can cause trouble in a good party if they discover your shit.

Everybody stop saying the word evil, I'm starting to not even recognize it anymore

>fly a plane into the Two Towers.
Jet fuel can't melt magic beams.

Shadow of War on Terror, please and thank you.

No, fuck evil.

throwing innocents under the bus to get revenge
>evil
fighting dirty with someone whose committed atrocities
>not evil
had just about enough of this lazy writing false equivalence bullshit.

Is brainwashing evil people to make them confess their crimes a good or evil act?

I mean, when you think about it (and I'm only just onto the boat so I haven't finished the game yet, I might be proven wrong) the Thieves actually FIX people's brains. The bad guys are all bad people, but mostly they're bad people because they have fixations or obsessive desires that prevent them from seeing the world the way it truly is, thus causing them to treat other people like objects. In a way, Joker and co. are just super hardcore psychotherapists.

>In a way, Joker and co. are just super hardcore psychotherapists.
Literally, in the case ofbest girl's palace.

But Tae doesn't have a palace

America fucked up by supporting jihadists

Is this the latest trolley problem?
Pull the switch to run over someone's arms or don't pull it to run over five other pairs of arms and the first pair's lower body?

And three rights make a left.

That's why I didn't say second best girl, user.

>then clean up later.

Except you stopped cleaning up midway because some lazy fat British bastard decided it was good enough.

Not remotely. If you can get the bad guys to kill each, Good wins. This is the reason for all the proxy wars in the Middle East: No matter who dies, the world is better off.

>This is the reason for all the proxy wars in the Middle East
I thought it was related to the US trying to secure the Saudi-Arabia/Jordan/Israel oil pipeline and its monopoly on oil in the region by ensuring there's such disorder in the region that any alternative pipelines can either never be built or are destroyed before completion, as well as protection of the petrodollar (both Saddam and Ghadaffi wanted to trade oil in other currencies than dollars. I think Ghadaffi wanted to trade in euros and Saddam in yuan or something?).

Blood War. That's it.

Bad goy, silence. Its because we are fighting evil terrorists who hate our freedom.

Celeb was super annoying

Celebrimbor was a piece of shit. He quietly waited for Talion, his wife and children to be killed to then help him. He also betrayed Talion after all they went through.

Talion was annoying. He was too emotional and too attached to bullshit.

I also dont know why people feared Celebrimbor going into power that much. Its not like he had too much of a dark agenda outside ending Sauron and using orcs for it.

Oh my sides, your version of WWII is so fantastical Lewis Carroll would turn green with envy.

>t. beady anglo

Dude
Tolkien fucking elves
They are all massive dicks and probably will kill their own brothers just for stupid oaths

>outside ending Sauron
He wanted to brainwash Sauron and use his power to become the overlord of all Middle-Earth...at least that was what the spider tits said.

Don't blame Tolkien for them butchering poor Celebrimbor.

He lived and died a good man. He shouldn't have become a wraith. He shouldn't have done some ring bullshit because he was the guy who figured out that bad juju was at work with that. He shouldn't have GET THE PALANTIR TALION

Is it evil to force evil to hang out with me because I'm to awkward for ranger friends?

Now I wish Shadow of Mordor/War was about going around and branding Skaven or Dark Elves or Orcs in the Warhammer world.

Maxim #29: The enemy of my enemy is my enemy's enemy. Nothing more. Nothing less. If the tools will fight each other on sight, ain't nothing wrong with arranging a meetup.