What must it feel like to be a thrallherd's thrall?

What must it feel like to be a thrallherd's thrall?

>Thrallherds send out a resonating psychic call, a call that urges those who may be actively or subconsciously seeking someone to guide them, control them, or lead them to come to the thrallherd.

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youtube.com/watch?v=dhYaX01NOfA
d20srd.org/srd/skills/diplomacy.htm
dnd.arkalseif.info/spells/book-of-exalted-deeds--52/sanctify-the-wicked--93/
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Feels weird until it doesn't.

"What's up with this dude, he's just...he's...what the fuck? Why did he ask me to hold this? Ought to anyhow, he asked nicely. Guess he's the boss now I think. Maybe I shouldn't think much. Yeah...that might be for the best."
I like to think its like that

"We are totally going to fuck at some point. I'm sure of it."

user. You know your Waifu user, right? You know how you love your waifu? How you'd do anything for her?

You fool. You already are a thrall.

youtube.com/watch?v=dhYaX01NOfA

I don't have a waifu tho!

>being a thrall is being a beta with Oneitis

That's what she wants you to think

My sexuality is too weird I'm afraid for waifus.

img related

Moar like this.

>Eventually, Cars stopped thinking

You know how there are chemical tripmines in the brain that make people affectionate/fall in love?

The Thrallheard is a Psion that figured out how to trigger those as a passive action, or rather, touch upon those who hace a slight hint of hopelessness and slave mentality going on already.

To be honest, it's one of the reasons Psions are always so scary- they're not in the wrong for using their powers on anyone because it's a superior means of communication, and thus is an act of advanced persuasion in a sense, barring the like of domination, which traps the mind and takes the body for the ride.

Mind-affecting spells/Psionics are more or less in the category of "incredibly dangerous if used in lesser situations and worked on imperceptibly over time to the motions of a well-analyzed subject, who would think the choices made for them are their own."

Thrall herding's got the similar workings of a charm spell, if you've ever read Dragonlance and seen how Raistlin worked it on that Gulley Dwarf, it makes you best friends, but for the sake of context, you've got to work in the blanks and the same applies for thrallherds.

You could say the difference between a bad a good person of mind-control is simply giving people a nice- reassuring honest lie to add to mix when you make them work for you- something they can accept- though once long-term control is issued, they've more or less gained Tomb of Nazarick level loyalty.

...

Wait... oh goddamn this is where my DM got the idea for my drow thrall before, or at least inspiration. Fuck.

Do potential thralls get a wisdom/charisma save to resist? What is it that separates potential thralls from other people?

>What is it that separates potential thralls from other people?

Mechanically, nothing. The class description tries to dodge the magical realminess of it, but if there's only one person in range when a Thrallherd calls out for a thrall, that person is 100% going to be a thrall. It really is just evil mind control.

What if there's 10 people around and there's only room for 4 thralls, house-rule wise, it makes sense to start with those who have the lowest wisdom or charisma right?

Like this.

Once called, the thrall's old sense of purpose is obliterated. They can't say why but they know now that only their master's commands are important, and there is no morality save what their master instructs. There's nothing to be proud of save doing the master's work; anything else is tertiary to existence at best. It doesn't really matter why the master wants things done, what matters is that the thrall was called. That in and of itself, in the bleach-burned mind of a thrall, is the entire justification for anything they do. No other explanation is required.

They only get one thrall, and the 'range' is anyone/thing that could arrive in 24 hours, including interplanar travelers at higher levels. There's no save because it's less of a dominate effect and more of someone out there is going to choose to follow, you just can't tell who until they arrive.

...

Incidentally, I love running thrallherds as a sort of environmental hazard type villain. i like the idea that some ancient human civilization from prehistory tried to cultivate the ability in its nobility to rule intrinsically over others, and in doing so caused the collapse of their empire. Now, hundreds of thousands of years later, the effects of their mental tampering occasionally resurface.

Thrallherds don't understand why what they're doing is wrong and their thralls can't understand. But they're still a dangerous menace that will completely upturn civilization again if not put to the sword.

Thralls feel most at peace when next to a thrallherd.

Thrallherding is purely non-chemical. telepaths affect people’s minds, and thralls are no different.

Here’s how I see it. Subconsciously humans are drawn to people who are like those in their childhood, kinda an imprint. They will forgo actually good choices to be with those who subconsciously connect with them.

Thrallherds expand their minds, and call people who would be subconsciously drawn to them already. The difference is that instead of having to talk with someone physically, they do so telepathically.

It’s not evil, merely efficient.

So objectively it's evil

K.

To explain it better when you become a thrallherd you send out a giant telepathic wave that sends years worth of social interaction out to those who can receive it.

The reason thralls feel like they are good friends with you, is because in a way they are. You are a stranger who has years worth of interaction with them.

I would say that's still super evil. You're nullifying any chance they have at another life by forcibly downloading an attachment to you into their brain. All the friendships and relationships they had or could have had are now null before the overwhelming one you've forced onto them. Whoever they could have been or would have been, whatever their aspirations were, they're all gone now.

Nothing says they have to give up all their attachments.

It’s simply that you are now the friend they have spent the most time with.

>TFW no one heeds the call

Where is this originally from? The art-style is very familiar.

>Whoever they could have been or would have been, whatever their aspirations were, they're all gone now.
Meaningless. For all you know their aspersions were reprehensible, or impossible, or they'd change their mind for some other reason regardless, or they'd ruin someone else's life as a side effect of chasing their dream. There's a million maybes and could'ves out there and you're a fool for trying to bank a moral judgment on them.

Because you've forced them to be attached to you.

Indeed, there's a million maybes and by thralling them you reduce those to one - one that was never their decision. Pure evil.

No less evil than having a good diplomacy skill.

If anything having access to a powerful psion really boosts the 30+ 1st level dudes and dudettes lives.

Far more evil. Diplomacy is convincing people of something.

With the thrall call, everything else in your life instantly just becomes secondary to serving the thrallherd. It's evil mind control.

And?

Thrallherds only effect a small group of people, diplomacy is a mundane mind control that effects anyone with an intelligence score.

>Thrallherds only effect a small group of people

Wrong. If there's one person in range of a thrallherd's call they'll always get thrall'd.

>diplomacy is a mundane mind control

Diplomacy isn't mind control at all. Whether diplomacy even works in a situation is up to DM discretion, because it's just the ability to persuade.

So you are saying that being able to make a balor a fanatical ally with a standard action in no way removes his freedom of choice?

I'm saying that Diplomacy as a skill doesn't work like that. It's fully within the DM's power to say that said Balor is simply not open to diplomatic dialogue. Only bad players and DMs treat Diplomacy as the ability to cast Charm Person at will. Diplomacy only works in certain situations, because it is explicitly not mind control.

Meanwhile, the thrall call is a psychic compulsion that overrides a person's priorities by force and makes them unquestioningly loyal to the caller.

Yea yea yea, GM oversight fixes everything.

It’s not like the rules explicitly say I can make a hostile enemy into a fanatical ally with a standard action with a DC 60 check.

Oh wait.

d20srd.org/srd/skills/diplomacy.htm

>Only bad players use the tool as its described in the skill text
I bet you think Diplomacy involves talking too.

Diplomacy is still not mind control. It is the art of argumentation. The mechanics are an abstraction of the character making a convincing enough argument that they change someone's mind on a certain matter.

Thrallherd mechanics are not an abstraction. The call explicitly guts another being's free will and makes them completely loyal to the caller. It doesn't make them an ally, in makes them a slave.

Thrallherds are evil.

No they aren’t.

I can be lawful good and be a thrallherd.

Your homebrew means nothing.

If you are lawful good your alignment must change when you become a thrallherd, as you are engaging in slavery, and slavery is evil. It doesn't really matter what the class description says - thralling someone enslaves them and by core D&D rules slavery is evil.

It’s not slavery, they willingly choose to follow you.

Charm person similarly effects people and it has no [evil] tag.

>A thread about (mind)slaves turns sexual
I should've known yet I'm disappointed.

According to the rules, they don't willingly choose.

Charm Person is temporary and doesn't cause permanent damage to a creature's psyche. When the spell ends they know they've been charmed. Charm Person can be used in non-evil ways or evil ways, making its alignment dependent on the actions performed via it, Thrallherd calling enslaves permanently and is therefore always evil.

Would they willingly choose to follow if the thrallheard were not using psychic spells on them?

Then it's slavery. Thrallherds are evil.

I stopped paying attention years ago - is the Mignolaverse still going strong? Or did it at least get a decent ending? I mean, the apocalypse was clearly already starting, so I figure things got really bad at some point, but I have no idea if he had plans or was just winging it.

Explicitly by the rules thrallherd doesn’t require you to be evil, nor does it cause them to change alignment.

Thralls willingly get up and walk to you, they act more as employees than slaves working for your approval.

You claim that removing free will is bad, however sancify the wicked is explicitly good and forceably changes a creatures alignment.
dnd.arkalseif.info/spells/book-of-exalted-deeds--52/sanctify-the-wicked--93/

Is prison the same thing as slavery in your mind?

It’s not the same, however sanctify the wicked explicitly forces a creature to become good.

They have no choice, however the spell is [good]

That isn't how the description reads to me.

>The soul reflects on past evils and slowly finds within itself a spark of goodness.

That's pretty different than mind control

>Explicitly by the rules thrallherd doesn’t require you to be evil, nor does it cause them to change alignment.

This is a case of supplement rules contradicting core rules. As thralls are slaves, thrallherds must be treated as slavers. In a contradiction between core rules and supplement rules, core rules have precedence. Therefore thrallherds are evil. At least, a thrallherd who utilizes their powers is evil.

>Thralls willingly get up

No, they are psychically compelled to get up and walk to you.

>they act more as employees than slaves working for your approval

They are compelled to do whatever you say by the connection created by the calling, making them slaves.

>You claim that removing free will is bad, however sancify the wicked is explicitly good and forceably changes a creatures alignment

Sanctify the Wicked imprisons a creature and gives them time to reflect on their actions, that's all.

Except they actually have no choice.

Despite whatever they choose they have to become good, no matter what.

you've been looking for some thing or some one your whole life even if you won't aware of it

and now you've found it, and you'll do anything to keep that feeling

Let’s put it this way, there is no difference between a man using mindrape to force a creature to be good, and using sanctify the wicked to force a creature to be good.

When a bard casts inspire courage on a character, that character brainwashed to ignore fear, or do they get an opportunity to do better? Spells can be done for the target and not to the target.

Granted you could play sanctify the wicked as a spell that hypnotizes a character to stop being evil. That would be up to your DM.

Yep inspire courage is mind effecting.

Can’t play bards, they force people to do something they wouldn’t normally do. Removing free will.

Slavery is pretty explicitly evil, some would argue to the point of being the equivalent of murder.

That's pretty dumb, user.

There's no MECHANICAL difference. However, the spell is quite clear about what's happening.

Thrallherding makes it quite clear that the effected individuals are robbed of their ability to deny the will of the caller.

Except mindrape doesn’t take forever.

This just in folks! Evil and Good do the same things, evil just does them better.

They both
>torture
>kill
>mind control
>remove choice
>etc

Except evil does all those things more efficiently.

Once again true neutral shows it’s ugly head as the best alignment.

True neutral people don’t have to convert or kill creatures of other alignments.

They can use both [good] and [evil] spells.

They look out for their friends and family, and hold normal relationships.

True neutral, a path to a better future.

She was probably getting off describing how obedient your little drow is while following your orders.

Thrallherd is basically the best class.

You basically weaponize your mind and people.

Honestly, this comes across as a strained and unconvincing attempt to argue that thrallherds are non-coercive.

This seems particularly silly, like arguing that stealing someone’s wallet isn’t wrong because you might be stealing from a drug dealer.

And eventually we reach this, which is very stupid. If we agree that those things are not categorically evil, then the distinction between good and evil lies with the circumstances and motives surrounding them; efficiency doesn’t enter into it.

N-no! My waifu would never...! It’s not mind control, I just love her with all my heart!

No those things are categorically evil, being good and evil means that you cannot see the other party exist.

As a good person you have to remove evil. As an evil person you have to remove good.

Whereas neutral people can live and let live, only stopping people who attack them or their close friends. It’s d&d horseshoe theory.

...

Very similar to how it feels being a submissive in a good BDSM relationship.

You don't just simply "trust" your Master. You absolutely KNOW your Master has the best intentions in mind. Even if he makes you do things you don't really like at the moment, those very things will make you a better person in the long run. And in turn you love and cherish your Master to the end of the earth and beyond, because you know you belong to your Master, now and forever.

>Honestly, this comes across as a strained and unconvincing attempt to argue that thrallherds are non-coercive.
Thralls are "those who may be actively or subconsciously seeking someone to guide them, control them, or lead them" and thrallherds can be non-evil and even good-aligned.

What's with that orc's fivehead? Is he the real thrallheard, using a magical-looking woman as a decoy?

Exactly, it's not an enchantment, it's putting out an empathic Help Wanted that crosses planar boundaries and someone, somewhere, will decide that you're the one they want to work for.

Yeah, while they're not necessarily evil a telepath thrallherd with the inclination could be a pretty horrifying villain and or tyrant. They could implant thralls in positions of power to control whole countries from the shadows. With true mind swap they can need not fear death by old age and can even take over the bodies of important people from kings and princesses to prophets and rich merchants. They just get smarter over time and can always swap out for a physically superior body or to escape and bide their time till their enemies let down their guard or pass away and their descendants forget the threat. It wouldn't be unthinkable for them to secretly turn their enemies to their side and purposes either. That's not even counting all sorts of bullshit with mind seed if they're of a persuasion to be cooperative with copies.

On the other side they could be a great force for good, think shit like gurren lagan or any of numerous other anime protagonists or kotor/kotor 2 main characters, especially if they focus their abilities on buffing and supporting their thralls. The prerequisites for a thrallherd don't actually require much telepathy specialization so diversifying power profile is an attractive option. The class gives knowledge of charm powers if not already known anyway, from a certain perspective it almost seems like telepath specialists gain the least from the class.

>What must it feel like to be a thrallherd's thrall?
Perfect and pure. He just makes everything...make sense. His voice is the most relaxing thing. Just hearing it makes everything better. When he's not there, maybe you'll get mad at him sometimes, but, when you're face-to-face again, you just can't manage to stay upset. He's there, everything's warm, and it doesn't matter anymore.

He's the only thing that matters. Slowly, you stop being able to care about other things because none of them make you happy. Not like he does. You just want to do whatever he wants you to. You always want to be there, to be available for him. You try to understand what he doesn't like, what will upset him, but you don't always get it right. But he forgives you because he is your wonderful master. You love him so much.

Eventually, the things you do that have nothing to do with him, you're still doing FOR him. Maybe you have a career, that you keep working at because having money and resources will make you more useful to him. Or one of a billion different reasons. Everything is dedicated to him. You worship him, really. You give thanks every day that he lets you be near him, and you feel ashamed at thoughts that he might disapprove of.

It really is the most wonderful feeling in the world. And nothing can fill the void left behind when it ends.

How do you survive the end of a BDSM relationship? My master decided he didn't want me anymore two months ago, and I still can't fight the urge to be around him. I ended up paying for the travel for him to see his new girlfriend over Thanksgiving because it means I'll get to see him on the way.

>Do potential thralls get a wisdom/charisma save to resist?
No because there's nothing to save against and it likewise can't be dispelled or anything like that, they just choose to answer the call from some yearning in them hidden or not.
I'd probably rule that getting new followers/thralls can be paused if trapped in a antimagic zone/dead magic zone though assuming psionics/magic transparency since the calling psychic signal could be blocked.

>but if there's only one person in range when a Thrallherd calls out for a thrall, that person is 100% going to be a thrall.
You're pulling that out of your ass to justify being buttmad about some d&d class because you associate it with some strawman of a player that you've probably never met.

It's entirely up to the dm to supply and decide on followers/thralls and a thrallherd in the party requires cooperative players and dm just like leadership does since it's just leadership with a coat of psionic paint. Since they're npcs it's also up to the gm to actually play the thralls.
You have to create some asspull thought experiment scenario to make sure a thrallherd is
completely isolated from all existence within any distance possibly traversable in 24 hours besides one other person for your bullshit logic to even apply and there still isn't anything that says the dm has to make them a follower/thrall, they'll just say congrats you broke d&d's fragile shitty rules or have reality ignore your counter-measures and a follower somehow shows up before asking if you'll let everyone can get back to the actual game now.

Remember that this is the stupidity that is d&d we're talking about. High level diplomacy can drive people into a supernatural fanatical state where they'll ignore danger and die for you.
If you want some strawman of poor innocent loved ones abandoned and sick with worry then they probably wont care whether you indoctrinated them with magic or not!-magic or good ol manipulation.

Quality

>dm oversight fixes diplomacy mind control but it's not allowed to fix my asspull scenario to purposefully make someone a follower based on leap of an interpretation of a guideline for dms to deliver new followers
wew really makes you think

Yeah sure, I mean it's not like the game has classes that actually restrict your choice of alignment and clearly and explicitly state such in the rules even for stuff as mundane as assassins.. or surely they just had this as the one exception where it's a little tricky and the class forces you to be evil but doesn't say it anywhere...
What is it about this class that triggers absolute brainlets?
The thrallherd sends out a psychic call that some choose to answer, it's not a compulsion. Are message spells evil if they convince someone to follow you? Never mind bards and others that use magic to aid "diplomacy".

>This is a case of supplement rules contradicting core rules.
They have errata for that shit. The followers and thralls are not described as slaves, the call is not described as compulsion, your autistic headcanon is not the golden rule above all others, never mind all manner of other cases like summoning where beings follow commands yet you don't get triggered and cry slavery.

>Slavery is pretty explicitly evil
Not in gygaxian d&d morality.

>Thrallherding makes it quite clear that the effected individuals are robbed of their ability to deny
No, you are pulling that out of your ass and substituting headcanon for the actual description. They choose to follow the thrallherd's commands
>inb4 if they wont disobey it's the same as if they can't
But only for thrallherd's right? Not diplomacy, then the logic stops.

I'd honestly suggest seeing a professional about this. He's seriously taking advantage of you there and there's no shame in asking for help.

It's definitely unhealthy but it kinda sounded like they paid for travel due to the opportunity to see them again. Sure the guy is taking advantage of the free travel but it's kinda seems less in the line of him demanding user pay and more something like when a guy offers a ride or something to a girl they want to spend time with and the girl accepts even if they don't wanna be around the guy, it's using each-other. Though of course it's hard to judge from so little on an anonymous message board anyway it doesn't matter too much with the relationship is ending.