/bgg/ Board Game General - itching to play it edition

> California biker gang tv show game
> €uropean

Couldn't be less true if it had cheeseburgers.

Seriously dude it's a worker placement VP game.

>every euro is trading in the med

He's either never played it or just shitposting

Anyone have opinions on Imperial v Imperial 2030?

Is teraforming mars that good? I am thinking of getting.

>What's the one game you don't get to play often enough but truly love /bgg/?
seems like all of them.. but mainly shadows over camelot and chaos in the old world

/bgg/ hates it and it was offered heavily discounted on CSI only a few weeks after release.

How do we treat the co-op games players, /bgg/? Obviously these people are sick and retarded, but should we regard them with pity or contempt and disgust?

>just want to have social interaction with no bully
>called sick and retarded
Show me where the Co-op King touched you, user...

It's likely a minority of players that want to play coops, so just refuse to play, offer something else, and eventually people will move over to your side once they realize only one or 2 guys at the table truly enjoy that shit. Just make people aware that they don't HAVE to play coops and that you could give them something better. The problem is coop players refuse to play anything else so they drag the whole group down with them. Pull back.

Don't read too much into Stronghold games being heavily discounted, they jack up the pricing on purpose above what they intend to sell them for so the discount looks bigger

Just another reason to avoid the game imo.

>las vegas, puerto rico, broom service
Why do my favorite games in my collection all come in the same size box?

I really enjoyed it, but it was my first time playing. According to the yak shaving committee here it's boring the third or fourth time when you see it's all window dressing hiding the fact that at its core it's just hurr durr best random card draw wins ameritrash.

>. According to the yak shaving committee here it's boring the third or fourth time when you see it's all window dressing hiding the fact that at its core it's just hurr durr best random card draw wins ameritrash.
This is also our problem with Inis and Blood Rage.

Also you shear yak, you don't shave them.

Forbidden island
Forbidden desert
Forbidden stars
Pandemic
Flash point

co-op games are shit

Forbidden Love is damn good though, especially for a co-op.

Yeah personally I'd avoid it for the fact the production on it was shit, but just saying you shouldn't look at the pricing they do on games. Some are clearly priced decently (Survive, Not Alone, Diamonds) but then they've got others you can tell they tacked an extra $10 on just to make it look better in a discounted Amazon/CSI/MM cart or when they "discount" at cons (Stronghold, Sola Fide, Pursuit of Happiness).

As for the box issue; because manufacturers only use a few sizes of box + valley insert because it's cheaper than paying a packaging team to design one specifically for you?

>Forbidden island
>Forbidden desert
>Forbidden stars
>Forbidden love
Did you see the Origins preview of Forbidden Fruit? Looks damn good for a 1vAll

Coops are shit.

No they aren't.

You're right. Coops are good.
Co-ops are shit.

>second-hand copy of Container arrives today
>BGG market description only mentioned brown stains on the bottom of boards, I'm okay with this because I'm not going to be seeing that side
>there's coffee stains on the face-up sides
is there a way to clean this shit properly, or am I just fucked? at least this copy was about $100 cheaper than any other copy I could have picked up where I'd get destroyed by currency conversion and the hidden cost of shipping

it's been too long since I've been on the receiving end so I'm okay with it

haven't played Imperial 2030, but from what I know the main difference between both is the map in Imperial is a lot more claustrophobic with neutral areas, so there will be a lot more competition for area control which I personally prefer. you'll generally see comparisons about how Imperial 2030 has the Swiss bank mechanic while Imperial doesn't, but that only applies to the first edition of Imperial. current printings of Imperial have the Swiss bank

I'm the kind of person who veers towards pity rather than disgust, but I'm a natural optimist. I'm hopeful that I can give them the drive and motivation to take off their adult diapers by throwing Merchants & Marauders in their face and getting a good idea of what playstyle they prefer. then I'll bring something in more savage (like Chicago Express or Neuroshima Hex) and burn their diapers while doing so

>take someone from co ops to Chicago Express
>from co ops to a game where it seems like there could be mutually beneficial plays but punishes them more brutally than they ever imagined for trying to play that way

When a child misbehaves, you punish them. This is taking their childish coop traits and forcing them out of their bad habits. It's a perfect suggestion to burn coops out of your game group.

> I'd rather shit my diapers and burn stuff while laughing like a maniac than learn to communicate in a civil manner with fellow human beings.
Whew, the autism is strong in this one even by Veeky Forums standards.

Jokes on you for buying a used copy instead of making your own for five bucks.

Is it really that easy to make container?

Unless you're dying to own big boats made from dental enamel, all you need are
- enough cubes in five colors (or bits of colored paper)
- poker chips (or monopoly money)
- 6 sheets of paper for the island and player mats
- 5 things to serve as boats (such as cardboard rectangles)
- 10 cards or markers to indicate loans.
- 5 scoring cards, which are preferably indistinguishable on the back side but can easily be hidden under the player board if not.

If there's one trait that is completely insufferable when playing regular games with coop "gamers" is fuckin king making and and a "I don't really care about winning" attitude. If you don't beat this out of them, they'll never play real games.

nothing like some good whiplash and seeing who can recover from the trauma and who needs to be sent to the dungeon crawler/modern Euro containment zone

you do realise there's different writing styles between the user you're directly responding to and myself, right?

true, though the blind bidding is hard to do with poker chips unless I made player boards to cover their money. the ships have a nice chunky weight to them that I like a lot, however

Oh, and some extra cubes in the same colors for the machines and some generic bits for the warehouses.

>you do realise there's different writing styles between the user you're directly responding to and myself, right?
Not really, all you autist subhuman dweebs look same to me.

>look the same
The retards finally learned to see through the internet, eh?

Sorry I don't call all my friends over to watch me solve a solo puzzle. I'm sure every time you do it, it's a riveting good time.

> not recognizing racist memes
Wow, when I called you autistic I really wasn't exaggerating, was I?

Let's get real for a second now. You don't have any friends.

>implying

I'm not implying, I know.

>Implying I didn't literally just get online from having had 4 friends over for game night

>I know everything about everyone
>calling other people autistic

Please stop. You don't have any friends. (No, the people who just endured and humored you for a few hours aren't your friends, and not even really "buddies".)

Yes, user, being able to pick up obvious social clues is what non-autistic neurotypicals are naturally good at.

it's sad when you can pick out the co-op players, in that they have a severe alpha player syndrome that urges them into moving your pieces after you've done a turn that affects them to your benefit and telling you to do something else instead

repeatedly having to reset your turn

while you just sit there with a smile and gently tell them "no" until they concede and realise that they do not have the power to influence my decision making in any way

you have been doing a good job at containing your power level for the past few threads, though I guess your brain fluids had to leak out eventually. I commend you for making an effort, though!

Played it a few times and IMO it has its problems. If you like euros and you like the theme you'll probably like it that said.
Visually it look like a 90s era simulation (computer) game. The art is mismatched and it's heavy on the symbolics.
The pieces are fiddly as fuck. Breathe heavily and everything misaligns and your player mat. If somebody bumps the table you might as well restart the game.
The game is tactical not strategic. If you play the standard game without drafting the there's a very low possibility that the cards you'll get will combo properly with your factions special ability. I've had games when the player that gets bonuses for the earth symbol didn't get any card with it, or a player that gets bonus too to titan got only two cards with titan symbol late in the game (and someone had a technology card that gave him the same bonus WITHOUT nerfing him at the start of the game).
If you play with the drafting variant it's actually WORSE because you'll get hate drafted a lot.
The good - the theme works, the factions look and play differently (though you might cry a lot when you get raped by luck), there's a lot of possibilities and the rounds go by pretty quickly even in a 5 player game.

>not autistic
>can't resist throwing a hissy fit on an anonymous khazar oxford dictionary amending forum

>constantly having to attach an image to every shitpost

Yes user, he's the autistic one alright.

>getting triggered by images on an imageboard
I can't imagine being this insecure. I'm guessing you also feel the need to mention frogs when you see one? Try to resist.

You forgot to say "U mad"

2/10 best I can do.

I await your next image attached shitpost like the inexorable dumbass you are.

>U mad
back to wow cerca 2009

There's a warzone thread right now on BGG where a brave guy had the guts to say all these recent games that are playable solo are all just glorified puzzle games.

boardgamegeek.com/thread/1878432/rising-trend-games-player-counts-starting-1

Alot of the people who play them got butthurt because someone had the balls to point out they were basically autistic

Why does every single bgg thread lately turn into a shitshow? Trolling and insulting and baiting and annoying.

Ayy fuck you buddy, I'm having a great time with Arkham Horror

Yup, that's pretty much what you can expect from the general population on BGG.

Half of them should be taken out back and straight up shot for being so much genetic dead-ends. I bet they're fucking liberals.

None of them are anything, these aren't the kind of people who form any real political opinion.

I kinda like "multiplayer solitaire" games, but you never need more than two or three, and for me that's Mage Knight (in most scenarios) and Scythe. How these people can own and play these plus Gloomhaven, TM, etc. is beyond me.
Actually, they probably never play Mage Knight.

>What's the one game you don't get to play often enough but truly love /bgg/?
Shadows of Brimstone I guess, too much shit, cannot carry it anywhere. And the language barrier hinders the experience for my friends. (frenchfag here) So I mostly play it solo, which takes the right kind of mood.
>Is it something you own or do you have to go to a friend's/meetup to play?
Own it. I own most of my group's games.
>Most important, when you can't play that game you really love, what's the methadone for your withdrawl?
Dungeon Saga I guess. Doesnt quite fit the bill, but it's something. I was hoping Dark Souls would be a better replacement but that game is fucking terrible. Need to get rid of it ASAP.

Skimmed through it a bit and it seems most of that discussion is aimed at euros with solo-rules, but what do you think of games like GMT's COIN series or Labyrinth, or their purely solo games like Navajo Wars and Comanchería, or the WW2 submarine games?

>they were basically autistic
I won't lie I'm actually kind of interested in Mr. President on GMT's P500.

Ginkgopolis is my friends absolute favorite game; we borrowed it from a friend who's in Alaska now, and the damn things's OOP for years and $120 minimum. Does anyone have one they don't mind selling for less?

He's an idiot and he's wrong.

A "puzzle" is a game where if you solve it once, then you automatically know how to solve it every time.

None of the recent solo-playable games are puzzles.

(Anything by Rosenberg plays great solo and isn't a puzzle, for example.)

I believe your 'definition' is wrong and therefore the conclusion you came to based on this is also wrong.

We should create a new definition of "puzzle" for these threads, "a game with an optimum play heuristic which doesn't include the actions of other players." In this definition a game where you always do what gets you the most points and hate-drafting, blocking, etc. is always a less good option would be a puzzle, and a game where there are scenarios in which the best play is to hate-draft or block wouldn't be. As an example, Scythe is a puzzle because the best play is basically to sit on your peninsula and maybe get a couple other hexes, where Agricola isn't because sometimes you'll take a space just to make sure other players have to beg or can't buy an oven or something, and sometimes you'll see that the player on your left is trying for a certain strategy and have to change yours to accommodate.

Or we could just reeee at things we don't like without trying to understand what the other party is trying to communicate.

Aside from that being a very iffy definition of puzzles, it pretty much fits solo Agricola. Sure, you might need a few games at the beginning due to the changing order of actions and different handcards, but if you can't solve at least the basic 50 points condition every time after you learned how to play it, you might have an intellectual disability.

>he doesn't know good coop games
Lurk more
>he doesn't know how to find good coop people
Get a life
It's probably the hardest subgenre to really enjoy and thus the most patrician. Get fucked peasant.

Even if they're not exactly a "puzzle", all these solo games can be distilled down to rolling a die and to get the correct number/s. Roll enough times, and you'll eventually win. That's what these solo games basically are. Just the lonely autists rolling a die over and over until they hit the winning number, then thinking they've actually achieved anything.

You know, more importantly than anything, who the fuck cares if the game you like is technically a puzzle ?
A lot of people tend to attach definitions in a derisive way to some games, like people who will tell you that Telestrations is not a game, it's an activity.

I cant say I really give a fuck. I'm having a good larf with my friends, it's one of the few party games I actually enjoy.

>but what do you think of games like GMT's COIN series or Labyrinth, or their purely solo games like Navajo Wars and Comanchería, or the WW2 submarine games?
I really wouldn't know. I just wanted to point out the thread for you guys. Since you ask sincerely about the games you mentioned, I don't want to spout an opinion since I know almost nothing about them.

>I bet they're fucking liberals.
A lot of the vocal ones are and will outright keep arguing with you using every single mental gymnastics trick in the book to "win" a thread. The rest will passive-aggressively thumb those persons' replies because they automatically go with the "progressive" stance.

this has been an almost constantly recurring theme, what makes it different now?

>hardest to enjoy
well of course, when all you're doing is playing against the game and not against other people it's hard to find any kind of enjoyment if it doesn't have a heavy push-your-luck element

thumbed

>We should create a new definition of "puzzle" for these threads, "a game with an optimum play heuristic which doesn't include the actions of other players."
No, wrong. According to this definition, any perfect information game with a zero-sum outcome is a "puzzle".

AlphaGo recently beat the best human Go champions exactly by optimizing a play heuristic that doesn't include the actions of other players.

If your definition of "puzzle" allows redefining of Go and chess as "puzzles" then you're doing something wrong.

I know what you mean, though, and in principle you're right. (What you really mean is that games with a nonzero-sum evaluation function are more interesting than games where every move results in some zero-sum outcome.)

Speaking of GMT, I nearly always only hear mention of their COIN series. Which of their games outside of that series are good or do you like?

The best board game is chess. Prove me wrong. You can't!

>Aside from that being a very iffy definition of puzzles, it pretty much fits solo Agricola. Sure, you might need a few games at the beginning due to the changing order of actions and different handcards, but if you can't solve at least the basic 50 points condition every time after you learned how to play it, you might have an intellectual disability.
Well, I must be an intellectually disabled retard then, because getting 50 points in solo Agricola is hard as balls. Certainly I can't reach this goal every time I play. You sure you're getting the rules right? There's an assload of variability in Agricola that will bite you in the ass very hard.

True shitposting and trolling have always been present, but the quality of discussion has delved to frogposting memespeak lately.

Twilight Struggle (and like games)
Dominant Species

Chess is okay, but its "optimal" metagame of memorizing a book of moves is bullshit.

>I know what you mean, though, and in principle you're right. (What you really mean is that games with a nonzero-sum evaluation function are more interesting than games where every move results in some zero-sum outcome.)
Thanks dude, what are these terms from, game theory?

These plus Dominant Species and Talon, minus Genesis (it's getting the boot moment I need the space).
Heard good things about Successors but I'm not about to pay $120 for it.

Oh, and Churchill is apparently very good but I've never played it.

Yes, but I'm likely using them loosely like a retard.

In any case, what I mean is: every move in Go either adds points to an opponent's score or removes points from an opponent's score.

This means that for a computer AI player it actually doesn't matter at all what the human opponent does. All you need is a database of optimal moves, and then the AI always plays as if the human opponent is perfect. (In the case if the human opponent isn't perfect then he's going to lose anyways, so you really don't care about this case.)

This isn't really true in something like Agricola, where you can screw an opponent over and end up winning even by playing "incorrectly".

oh right, browsing boards like /g/ has turned ignoring and filtering out memeposting into a skill. /bgg/ is ridiculously civil compared to the MTG Modern general for an in-board example, even with our disparate tastes in games

you're on the right track with the Go example, though the usage of negative-sum, zero-sum and positive-sum varies depending on the game. a negative-sum example is likely to happen in wargames, where you destroyed an opponent's unit but you had to lose two of your units that individually had the same value as the unit you destroyed in order to achieve that goal. a zero-sum example is trading one type of resource to obtain another, and a positive-sum experience would be you spending one type of resource for you and someone else to gain the same amount of another type of resource, even though you're competing against each other and not aiming for a shared victory

Thanks for the recommendations.
Out of these I'm most likely to get Twilight Struggle or Labyrinth (simply because of availability and price where I live)
May I ask what's wrong with Genesis?

Fair enough.

>I don't want to spout an opinion since I know almost nothing about them.
Great excuse to give one of the COIN games a try then, though to be honest I'd recommend them at full player counts rather than solo!

Dominant Species
Triumph & Tragedy (Designer working on pacific theater with option to link with this!)
Pax Baltica

And some (non-COIN) games I want to try, and also are generally considered good (afaik):

Paths of Glory
Churchill (I have played this actually, but I'm not convinced after only one play)
Pericles
Labyrinth
Combat Commander: Europe
Here I Stand / Virgin Queen
Thunder Alley (card-driven NASCAR board game wut???)
Commands & Colors (no idea which iteration is best)
Space Empires 4x
Time of Crisis (I REALLY want to try this)
Empire of the Sun
Next War series

Those last two would require me being tutored by some benevolent proper hex-and-counter nerd though.

>Heard good things about Successors but I'm not about to pay $120 for it.
Really want this to be reprinted as well.

>May I ask what's wrong with Genesis?
It's a bog-fucking-standard "send troops to this place to take it over to get resources to make more troops" kinda game with little in the way of complexity or variability.
No one ever mentions it for a reason.

New idea: game cycles between four phases, Dawn, Day, Dusk, and Night.
Given the topic of our conversation you can guess what they represent.

>It's probably the hardest subgenre to really enjoy and thus the most patrician
What kind of logic is this? Masturbating with sandpaper is really hard to enjoy, guess we should all do this to be patricians?

Gamers who are down for whatever and willing to enjoy most games on their own merits >>> Ameritrash Gamers = Eurogamers > Normies > Eurogamer autists who screech about dice > Co-op gamers > Eurogamer autists who screech about conflict/interaction > Kickstarter > Autists who spend all their time screeching about Kickstarter > Frogposters.

This is the undeniable chain of being. Obligate co-op gamers dwell in a pitiable realm, penned in by their fear of bruised feelings. But those at the top of the chain will give a co-op a fair shake like any other game.

Why are modern boardgames so obsessed with randomization? Every game these days has random set-up, modular boards, player count scaling, 20000000000000000000000 expansions, optional rules etc. What the fuck happened to just designing a good, balanced core game? Chess doesn't fuck around, picrelated doesn't fuck around and it's great, why can't everyone be like this?

Because without randomization you end up faggots who memorize books of moves being lauded as champions.

Fischer random chess is the best kind of chess, pretty much everyone agrees.

>Obligate co-op gamers dwell in a pitiable realm, penned in by their fear of bruised feelings
Go play some Pandemic on Legendary and then tell me that co-op gamers have a fear of "bruised feelings".

>Fischer random chess is the best kind of chess
Nobody except Bobby thought that. Standardized set-ups are great because they allow long-term planning and let the player think of new strategies even outside the game. When shit's random every time, it's hard to develop your own style, or understand where you misplayed. It's also hard to find the 'definitive' way to play, my butt was fucking obliterated when I visited a Carcassonne tournament only to find out that preliminaries will be played in a 4-player format to save up the time

Getting thrashed by a game is a far different experience than being thrashed by your friend. If someone is unwilling to play anything but co-ops, bruised feelings is probably what they're afraid of.

No i don't agree but I'm not afraid or upset by losing.

Sadly I always end up buying CoOp games and even though I almost never enjoy them. I just much prefer outwitting or being outwitted by an opponent.

I like solo games sure and sometimes I'll play CoOp games as a solo exercise and that's fun but if I wanted a coop experience I'd just get an RPG on the go.