Why do people dislike him?

He didn't drop everything and rush straight to Terra like a normal person would have.

Worse, he's vanilla in a franchise known for its excitingly bizarre flavours. 40k is dumb as fuck and doesn't need some cunt trying to be sensible about things.

Success breeds jealousy

He's a retard. Fuck him

Im not knocking it aside from the fact we could instead be following the guys who are all about 3D popout books, or goosebump adventure books. Instead however we keep getting the stock standard books we all know are just average.

Juxtaposition. If everyone's special, no one is. You need a sensible (for the setting) core that makes all the weirdos even weirder. The pink haired girl with the nose ring stands out when she's not in a crowd of rainbow hair and piercings.

Is everything you do in life the most interesting thing? How boring does that get, when you have to constantly think of new ways to do things as not to fall into mediocrity?

They used to when Matt Ward was writing him.

Now he's eh pretty cool guy.

Yeah its much better instead to just be boring the whole time so as not to ever get sick of doing exciting things and having to come up with new ideas.

Go away Lorgar.
You were a loser pre-heresy and you're an even bigger loser now

He is pretty aight, just that Matt Ward ruined his legion fluff wise.

So you never do the same thing twice? Every day you wear new clothes, eat new foods, travel to new places, meet new people. You have no routines, no favorites you fall back on, nothing? I'm not saying "everything should be like Ultras" what I'm saying is that you need the old and familiar to make everything new and exciting stand out. And just because it's "boring" doesn't mean it's wrong. Chasing the new high constantly is what an addict does, and being an addict is not healthy, man.

Because dogmatic adherence to the book is even noted in universe as being a bad thing. As with anything in 40K, it’s gone to extremes, revealing the holes.

Where the fuck are you trying to take this metaphor user? Almost all of the Primarch had a theme? Guillimans theme was being the 'by the book' statesman. Somehow though you're amazed that people find that boring when its oversaturated in a setting that supposed to be about the most ridiculous and extreme examples of every other setting slammed together into one glorious mess? This is a legitimate reason for disliking Guilliman.

If he was quietly competent over in the corner he would get a lot less hate. As it is he's front and centre hiding the more interesting Primarchs behind him.

>dogmatic adherence

Which is why you don't do that, unless you're Leandros.

>Somehow though you're amazed that people find that boring when its oversaturated in a setting that supposed to be about the most ridiculous and extreme examples of every other setting slammed together into one glorious mess? This is a legitimate reason for disliking Guilliman.

And it's legitimately terrible of a reason. Rowbyte Gigaman is awesome in the way engineers are awesome. During the heyday of the Crusade, this guy doesn't gripe about how Father doesn't love him, or how Father didn't let him die, or how Father will turn into a husk leading the galaxy's worst tyranny that dwarfs any human goverment that wasn't the Imperium. He did his job and did it in the way so that the transistion was as painless as possible and its citizens become productive members of the Imperium.

>Somehow though you're amazed that people find that boring

Not at all, it's perfectly understandable. It's people who find it amazing that a boring statesman happens to be the most successful one over their poison huffing fire loving wolf fuckers. How many pink haired people with nose rings do you see in Fortune 500?

>Give your opinion on this
>YOUR OPINION IS WRONG
You ok there champ? Time for your meds I think.

I wasn't complaining about him being successful you might notice. Others were just as successful, Horus and the Lion for example. Yet if they were pushed as much as Guilliman they'd receive more hate in return, not that they dont get some already mind you.

What exactly is your gripe? I mean, in 40k fluff Guilliman is important since he did pen the Codex and reorganize the Imperium, his Ultras made a ton of the chapters of the 2nd founding and with one of the most stable gene-seeds, they continue to have more chapters than less fortunate chapters.

Horus turned traitor and is dead, so nobody's gonna sing his praises, and Lion got fucked by his own legion, since the Fallen and keeping it a secret made them into a very reclusive chapter.

>YOUR OPINION IS WRONG
Never said your opinion is wrong.

I said it was shit.

There's a difference.

Yes, that was the intent.

Guilliman's intentions did not ultimately match up to what the Imperium chose to practice.

>There's a difference.
The difference being youre a cock gobbling fanboi who instantly started ranting about why you like Guilliman instread of talking about my points.
>MUH ENGINEERS ARE AWESOME
>MUH DID HIS JOB
Whatever autismo.

>What exactly is your gripe?
I stated my gripe, justified it and explained how it would simmer down if Guillimans posterboy-ness slowed down here Because as you say Guilliman did all those things, whilst some Primarchs literally have nothing written about them other than Iron Hands. My example about Horus was that whoever the posterboy is is going to get hate for 'outshining' the others no matter who they are. In Guillimans case its perhaps worse because he is so 'vanilla'.

I agree. Russ should be the poster boy. You sure as shit can't get more special than him and his boys.

He's not Sanguinius

This is the biggest moving of goalposts I've ever seen

wut?

He's boring, like most Primarchs. The loylist are either too moral or mary sues (Him, Vulkan, Russ, Sanguinius,Dorn) and the traitors just evil for no reason (or overally comical evil) or have no motive to be evil (Horus, Curze, Alpharius, Fulgim, Angron)

The only Primarchs with some character really are The Lion, Khan, Corax, Magnus, Lorgor (actually tempted to say he is pretty classical villian who twiddles his mushtache but at least he has some developed character and reason why he fell to Chaos other than "a sword told me to!" or "I had a dream that I knew was a lie, confirmed was a lie by Magnus but did it anyway lol")

This. Lion and Magnus are the only developed Primarchs I'd say. Shame their books usually suck too - looking at you Crimson King and Descent of Angels.

>my dad > your dad: the thread

He is well written positive character with flaws, only cancer TTS fag hate him.

Let's be honest here, the Codex Astartes is the only reason the Imperium hasn't won all it's wars millennia ago. The Imperium has the resources to make many more Space Marines and millions of strike teams of supergods is more useful to the Imperium than a large army of mooks. The PDF are suppose to be the mooks who hold the line long enough for the Space Marines to show up, not the Guard. The Guard should be the support unit for the Marines, like it was doing the Great Crusade.

The entire "logic" behind crippling the Marines is that they're too much of a risk but the only reason that the Horus Heresy happened is because Marines are brainwashed into follow their Primarch no matter what. One or two groups of Marines may fall every now and again but without Primarchs there is no threat of a mass rebellion like the Heresy.

There are no Space Marines on Veeky Forums.

Space Marines would pretty much replace humanity without a limit on how much of themselves they can create.

>The PDF are suppose to be the mooks who hold the line long enough for the Space Marines to show up, not the Guard.

How exactly does the Guard arrive at the scene faster than Marines?

>without Primarchs there is no threat of a mass rebellion like the Heresy

You telling me there has not been a single defection of space marines since the Horus Heresy?

Does the codex actually tell you you can only have 1000 marine chapters?

Good.
>How exactly does the Guard arrive at the scene faster than Marines?
Because there are a lot of Guards and only a thousand chapters of Marines. There are literally not enough Marines to patrol 1% of the Imperium.
>You telling me there has not been a single defection of space marines since the Horus Heresy?
Read the entire sentence.
>One or two groups of Marines may fall every now and again but without Primarchs there is no threat of a mass rebellion like the Heresy.

The Codex just split the legions into chapters, it didn't put an upper limit on the number of chapters just the number of marines in a chapter.

Best man Rogal and The Pain Glove

Nah. That's just around the number still alive.

He's the most white bread of the Primarchs. It's hard to compete with "literal angel with anger issues" and "murderous pit fighter" when you had a pretty okay childhood and upbringing.

Indeed there are not, brother.

People have hated them since 2nd edition. It's nothing to do with Ward.
>Muh poster boys
That's the actual reason.

>Because there are a lot of Guards and only a thousand chapters of Marines. There are literally not enough Marines to patrol 1% of the Imperium.

And those space marines have their own ships, logistics and command structure. They're on their way the moment the call comes in. Guard regiment has to be assembled and supplied by the Munitorum, get a transport and escort from the Navy, any necessary detachments need to be added, like commissars, Admech support, etc. If they don't have the proper equipment or vehicles, those need to be added. It takes a while to muster a regiment, even if it's already trained.

>One or two groups of Marines may fall every now and again but without Primarchs there is no threat of a mass rebellion like the Heresy.

So the only reason Marines have fallen in small numbers is not that they've been split into small groups, but because there's no primarchs? Pure coincidence it's usually chapter sized groups of Marines?

I like him, at least in the context of the Gathering Storm and the new fluff, for a lot of reasons. Of the loyalist Primarchs who could have returned, he's the leastest of warriors. He's also one who knows better than to make sweeping corrections to what he sees as wrong with the Imperium, seeing major mertis in places he also sees problems. Honestly, no other Primarch would have worked? No other Primarch would have been that cautious in laying down the law and making sweeping changes while the Imperium was already vulnerable, OR, alternatively, fucking off with their respective chapter and that being that. Big Daddy Salamander might have worked, but I think personally that the dramatic irony of the guy who wants to be a statesman being the guy who has to stand up and fight is too good to pass up.

>Rowboat never forced his ideas on anyone!
>What about the codex and splitting of legions which many were opposed to
>But that was a good idea!

Yeah, certainly no loyal battle brothers here. By the way, what's up with these fallen guys huh?

I'd assume so because Guilliman was specifically worried about someone controlling a majority number of marines again like Horus

Yes, that's why he split them into autonomous chapters of ~1000 men. He didn't put a limit on the number of these chapters because no-one commanded more than 1 of them in anyway, so no more than a handful of chapters could revolt simultaneously regardless of the total number of chapters.

The biggest fuck up to date was the Badab war were one chapter went rogue and called in a few millenia worth of favours from what was stated to be an influential chapter, and got a whole 3 other chapters to go with them.

So, if I pushed the idea that you should totally do hard drugs, it's so great, and Jimmy there pushed the idea that you should get good education and a job, we'd be equally bad people?

Poster boy and a traitor

It was good book according to the creator of that book.
It's funny how the most hardcore loyalists were agains't it

Implying you wouldn't betray Imperium for Yvraine.

Who, DAngles?

Yes, the entire Imperium as we know it, is just humoring Guilliman.

>Gets worried about someone controlling a legion
>Decided to control the entire Imperium, including all astartes.
Really makes me think

>Fulgrim said he is only man holding Imperium together
>Felt sorry for killing him
The absolute state of Dorn and Russ fags.

He really doesn't deserve the hate he gets considering that while other primarchs may care about the imperium as much, if not more, than he does, he's the only one with the actually organizational capacity and follow through to do anything about it. Sure you have people who criticize the Codex Astartes but it's not as if anyone else suggested anything better. When Emps died and shit got fucked up he was the dude who put all his shit aside and stepped up and tried to present a unified goal and organizational model for the Imperium while all the other primarchs were chimping out.

Yes. Russ, Lion and Dorn.

>Caring about what Fulgrim say

Typical plebian reaction: to hate what they don't understand.

>Sure you have people who criticize the Codex Astartes but it's not as if anyone else suggested anything better
Letting the legions intact? Remember when Dorn thought that the legions should keep existing because the traitors could attack again? Well, if Guilliman didn't fucked it, the chaos legions would have dissapeared a long time ago

>without Primarchs there is no threat of a mass rebellion like the Heresy
Hoo boy, you might want to read up on the Badab War, the Cursed Founding, the 13th Founding...

To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand Guilliman and the Codex Astartes. The logic is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of theoretical physics most of the reasoning will go over a typical reader’s head. There’s also Guilliman’s nihilistic outlook, which is deftly woven into his characterisation- his personal philosophy draws heavily from Ciceronian literature, for instance. The ultramarine fans understand this stuff; they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depths of these dialectics, to realise that they’re not just correct- they say something deep about LIFE. As a consequence people who dislike Guilliman truly ARE idiots- of course they wouldn’t appreciate, for instance, the brilliance in the ultramarines' existential warcry “Courage and Honor,” which itself is a cryptic reference to Turgenev’s Russian epic Fathers and Sons. I’m smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion as GW's genius wit unfolds itself. What fools.. how I pity them.

And yes, by the way, i DO have a Roboute Guilliman tattoo. And no, you cannot see it. It’s for the ladies’ eyes only- and even then they have to demonstrate that they’re within 5 IQ points of my own (preferably lower) beforehand.

Nowhere near the size of a real legion

No, Dorn, you can't build a wall around the Eye and make Abaddon pay for it.

Go back to 1d4chan.

His copypasta is a few months old, it's about a decade too young to be on 1d4chan.

"Le Ultramarines Matt Ward maymay" originated from it.

1) Arrived on Terra when Big Emps was dead and didn't even ask to see the body, just wanted to get industry and tax revenue started up again;
2) Completely ignored what Foxy Grandpa stated was Big Daddy's final words just so he could be in the spotlight;
3) Called everyone who spoke out against him a traitor and used literal witch-hunt tactics to get everyone on his side;
4) Had to be the hero and wouldn't let the Imperial Fists die in peace;
5) Had the nads to blame everyone else for the fuck-up that is the modern Imperium when it's literally his fault;
6) Is trying to usurp the throne of Emps by strong-arming all of humanity under his thumb to be the politician he always dreamed of being;
7) Isn't doing anything with his vast resources to improve the Imperium, only making everyone work in his own vainglorious interests;
8) Made Notorious MAC step down as spiritual liege, even though the Ultramarines are still alive solely because of his leadership;
9) His name is stupid;
10) He's Ward's self-insert.

I am not biased, by the way.

The paragraphs posted were a modified version of a Rick and Morty shitpost

Poster clearly hates Ultramarines and learned 40k lore from that site though.

That's just edited from Rick and Morty shit. He didn't even change he nihilism or turgenev shit from it.

I'm saying is he took this copypasta and replaced various words with ultramarines and guilliman
>To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand Rick and Morty. The humour is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of theoretical physics most of the jokes will go over a typical viewer's head. There's also Rick's nihilistic outlook, which is deftly woven into his characterisation- his personal philosophy draws heavily from Narodnaya Volya literature, for instance. The fans understand this stuff; they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depths of these jokes, to realise that they're not just funny- they say something deep about LIFE. As a consequence people who dislike Rick & Morty truly ARE idiots- of course they wouldn't appreciate, for instance, the humour in Rick's existential catchphrase "Wubba Lubba Dub Dub," which itself is a cryptic reference to Turgenev's Russian epic Fathers and Sons. I'm smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion as Dan Harmon's genius wit unfolds itself on their television screens. What fools.. how I pity them.

And yes, by the way, i DO have a Rick & Morty tattoo. And no, you cannot see it. It's for the ladies' eyes only- and even then they have to demonstrate that they're within 5 IQ points of my own (preferably lower) beforehand.

topkek

This. Gulliman was a secessionist. A closeted traitor. Willing to abandon the imperium at large and the throne world specifically so he could run his own little empire.

Isn't he still trying to run his own empire in addition to the imperium now that he's awoken?

You mean captain, do no wrong lol hey forget what my dad said about making modifications to geneseed do it any way its cool because i said you could and just ignore the fact that fabius guy tried the same thing and ended up sending the whole legion into chaos and stuff its cool this time oh and B T Dubs dont actually let anyone use any of that useful shit you have laying around in the current war effort wait till i give the OK to do so even if im in some sort of comma where i cant give the final seal of approval just sit on it all and wait for me ill be fine dont worry, Guilliman?

2 of them were closet traitors. But Dorn was alright.

To be fair: It was.
That way each chapter could act autonomous while not being able the fuck up the whole Imperium in the worst case.

Regarding the first: If the guard gets called the thread in question tends to be more than a handful marines could handle. SM tend to be spread out too. They do not have companies sitting around waiting in case someone cries for help.

And it's not like it was such a radical change, legions had chapters. It was part of their organization. Guilliman probably looked at the legion organization and figured what sized unit would have enough impact and autonomy.

He took control of the Imperium now.
He's effectively the Emperor by now.

>vanilla
>more interesting flavours
>space Vikings
>space knights
>space angels
>space dragons
>space Mongols
>space wizards
>etc
Sure, those are waaaaaay more original than space Romans and totally not stereotypes used in most fantasy settings. And no, Romans are not "vanilla", people just need to learn actual facts about them instead of overused clichés.

>it gets annoying when he keeps being pushed as the 'best' flavour.
I agree, but I don't give a fuck about UM being "best flavour", "superior Marines" or any other shit GW could throw up. Just like I don't care about "muh dad can beat yur dad because..." wanking regarding who is the "best" primarch. I actually do like Guilliman and the UM because they are the only Astartes who accept their full responsabilities as conquerors, being not only warriors but also administrators, governors, etc. of the worlds they bring into compliance.

IMO Guilliman is interesting because he is one of the few primarchs whose philosophy and situation seem realistic in the 30k universe.
>Doesn't see the Emp as his father but shares his dream of a unified human empire --> No stupid daddy issues or ridiculous super-loyalty like some of his brothers
>Is allowed to build his own private dominion governed by Astartes --> No crisis about Marines being completely phased out by mortals
The UM are one of the few Legions with a back up plan for the post-Crusade era. All the poorly-written drama about primarchs and Astartes being temporarily tools for the Emperor is so badly handled I'm glad at least one primarch tried to fix the problem before the Crusade was over. Because it would make sense for any creature with power, supernatural intelligence and care for his sons to do this instead of waiting for the Emperor to decide of their ultimate fate.

That doesn't sound "vanilla" at all to me.

>took control
It was actually thrown at him, against his wishes.
Is it the same couple of people who haven't read the book that insist the Guilliman staged some kind of coup?

>taking the opinion of a devotee of the God of Crack as fact

Too bad Guilliman didn't exterminate you alongside Gallan and the rest of the patrician scum.

I never said Guilliman made coup d'etat.

I think a major problem is that GW has painted generic space marines as Ultras, cementing the idea that "non-specific space marine = ultramarine" where as DA, BA, SW, BT, IH, etc. get their own kits and conversion bits, making them different from the norm.

Lessers are always jealous.

He's gonna get corrupted so hard