That feeling when all your normie friends keep asking you to play D&D because they know you like pen and paper...

Did you try introducing them to wargames or miniatures skirmish games? Seems they're more interested in a tactical challenge than role-playing

Had the same problem, until one of them lend a couple of Shadowrun and convinced the rest of them to try it. Now the only thing they want to play is Shadowrun, but I have these great ideas for a classic D&D campaign.

Feels strange.

What's this shit with trying to cuckold them into playing with other systems, they obviously enjoy D&D, stop acting like a jealous home wrecker O.P

Coca Cola is good soda pop you hipster.

Go drink some of your craft soda if that is your worse complaint about the system.

>you don't like D20 as a system

This is really sad, because you honestly think the system matters that much, or even that genre is anything more than trappings.

It's like going to a house, and saying "I can't play here, I don't like Spanish Architecture and the color of this room isn't my favorite."

d20 combat is pretty boring tho, or at least DD combat is. If you like tactical combat, DD is objectively bad.

If you want friends to play with, you need to have games that friends will want to play. No one wants to expend the social energy to get off their masturbation chamber and hunker all the way to your place to play a game they don't like. Would you go to a friend's place to play when the only game they insist on playing is F.A.T.A.L?

Maybe be a decent host sometime this epoch and let them play a few campaigns. Then when they're tired of said 1-3 hour combat experiences, snare them with the promise of newer, fresher experiences suitable to them.

>system doesnt matter

Yeah, I'm sure the extra time dedicated to making characters, preparing monster stat blocks and grids for dungeons when there are other games that focus more on the adventure and intercharacter drama has no impact on my enjoyment.

To each his own, but saying system doesn't matter is like saying defaulting to monopoly at game night makes no difference.

Compared to?

>Have you tried telling them that you don't like playing D&D?

>Not entirely.
Pic related.

>It's like going to a house, and saying "I can't live here, I don't like having to wait fifteen minutes for the bathroom door to unlock every time I need to take a piss."
ftf ya

If you are having a hard time making characters and think prepping stat blocks is a real challenge for a game as casual as D&D, you're really not cut out for anything more challenging than monopoly, you self-admitted simpleton.

Fuck, there's premade EVERYTHING for D&D. You've got nothing to stand on except to further admit you're an idiot.

>making characters, preparing monster stat blocks and grids for dungeons
Usually the function of the D.M, if not strange game user, or is it maybe you just want to bitch off against D&D and any weak justification will suffice?

>D20
You may want to give 5e a shot then.

>I have to work with premades if I don't want to spend an hour working on original characters/settings and I should feel bad for wanting to play alternatives where it takes 10-15 minutes instead.
Get fucked mate.

>I can't find a premade around the idea I want and then change a few details

C'mon. Keep telling me how stupid you are and how bad you are at a game even little kids play. No wonder you don't like D&D, you're not smart enough for it, and it's a pretty low bar to clear as far as RPGs go.

Go on. I want to hear just how stupid you really are. You literally need to be at the "I can't even google" level of intelligence to be making the complaints you are making.

Not that user but 1st level character? Whip one up compliant with the rules in under 10 minutes. If you can't do that your grasp of the d20 rules set is poor.
Don't know what you mean by 'settings' it's all gravy user.

It's not even that. It's an outdated system developed from a wargame that focuses heavily on tactical combat.

I'm not complaining over the complexity. Usually its introducing new players to these things and it takes them a while to grasp over other games which are more fluid.

Also its the fact that I have to do this dance with every new friend group that wants to play rpgs.

Different user here.
It's not hard, just pointlessly tedious.
If I want to drill a hole in a board, I'd rather just use my regular drill instead of being forced to waste time with a blunt auger or having to buy a pre-drilled board with the holes in the wrong places.

Even if you have the most original idea in the world and the most engaging campaing if players dont like your system that is doomed to fail.
Many good ideas were ruined by GURPS for example.

>It's not even that. It's an outdated system developed from a wargame that focuses heavily on tactical combat.

Ah, fucking rich. Fucking rich. I love it when you actually go ahead and reveal just how fucking absolutely retarded you are.

You're LITERALLY the kind of idiot who doesn't realize that all modern RPGs are based off of D&D, hence ALL RPGS are developed from a wargame. What? Those games are departures from wargames? Then so is D&D, you absolute moron. D&D was never a wargame, and it's such a departure from Chainmail that most of what it retained was just bits of flavor. It didn't even use the same dice, with CM being a d6 based system.

And, if you want to talk outdated, we're still talking about a system that more people play than all other systems save one, and which still has an active community producing material for it.

You're right, in that 5e is much more modern and a better introduction for new players, but that doesn't stop you from being a moron, trying to divert the topic just to get called a moron again, and we're right back at you complaining about non-issues and trying to conjure up reasons why the game is at fault, and not you just being a card-carrying, "be-patient-with-me" t-shirt-wearing retard.

Not knowing how to run a system is the real issue there. Basically, system choice should really just be GM's call, and it's their responsibility to know the ins and outs to let the players have a good time.

>normie friends
Implying like you're some kind of 'elite nerd' for not liking D&D

>Doesn't acknowledge that D&D is tactical combat focused
>Doesn't acknowledge other games do things better than D&D
>Says his game is the best because more people play it.

Alright buddy.

Fair point. When dm throws you at a setting you are new to and says, okay make your chars until the first session, it is bad GM'ing.

>has to strawman in order to try to make an argument
>still trying to divert attention from the fact that his complaints are centered around him being dumber than a ten-year-old

And, you're done. No point in continuing this argument, because you've proven incapable of even basic argumentation.

Thanks for tying this off with a nice little bow.

It says a lot about how little you understand about mechanics reinforcing tone that you think they don't. Riddle of Steel plays nothing like D&D.

>refusing to play with people because they prefer a different system than you do

You're vastly overestimating the importance of a system if that's what's keeping you from playing with your friends.

>all modern RPGs are based off of D&D
Shinobigami isn't. Neither is Tokyo Nova. Or Apocalypse World. Or Chuubo's Marvelous Wish-Granting Engine. Or Marvel Heroic Roleplaying. Or Nobilis. Just to name a few.

All of those are. You can trace all their roots back to D&D.

>not refusing to play with people when they will only play a system that does everything you don't want a system to do
We get it, you think mechanics don't matter. When you stop being retarded, you'll realize they do.

Only in as far as you can trace the roots of a smartphone back to the invention of the wheel.

Man, seeing Chuubo's listed by someone other than me is a trip.

We've got only 43 years of modern RPGs. And, regardless of how much it upsets you to hear it, if your line of argument is "It was originally built from a wargame!" and you want to ignore all the arguments of "But it's a dramatic departure from that wargame," then you're going to have to accept those same clauses against any game you decide to mention.

>being this much of a contrarian cunt

It's sad that Veeky Forums is the only place you guys don't get banned from. Us having to be the dumping ground of social rejects just because we appreciate anonymity is almost not worth it.

Not that user, but you're demonstrably wrong. DnD is a departure from wargaming, sure, but it's on the scale of MOBA to RTS, not Little Fears or Monsters and Other Childish Things to DnD.

You have no perspective because you've never looked outside your little box.

We're still talking about trying to argue about airplanes while we're discussing spaceships.

If you want to bring up Chainmail, then it's only fair to go ahead and remind you that technically all modern RPGS are derived from it. Some games even have fewer degrees of branching than D&D 5e does.

As far as no perspective, you really should actually take a look at Chainmail and see how far removed it is from a game like 5e.

Thinking that systems matter doesn't make you a contrarian, it just makes you not retarded.

Thinking it matters so much that a popular system designed for mass appeal "does everything you don't want a system to do" really does make you a contrarian cunt though.

You're basically saying "I'm so fucking off track, I can't find common ground in a game designed to be a continent of common ground."

Do you even understand how much of a contrarian you need to be for that to be the case? You barely even qualify as human if we took your statement literally rather than as bitchy hyperbole.

>want numbers to ramp up quickly and want characters to become ultra reliable at their chosen field
>game does the opposite of that thanks to d20+bounded accuracy
>want quick, lethal combat or tactical combat
>get bloated HP vs low PC damage on a simplistic combat system so it fails at both
>want intricate class design or ultra barebones class design
>get a middle ground that satisfies neither of those criteria
Do I need to go on?

We were already certain you're a retarded contrarian troll several posts ago. No need to confirm that any more than you have.

The only thing we're confirming is that you still don't think game mechanics matter when that's not for you to decide.

>classic D&D
Okay, do it. Don't give them easy 5e bullshit, hit them with the real classic shit so they think all of D&D is THACO and multiple charts for every ability. They'll stop asking for classic fucking D&D real fast.

>drug
Lost it

Next time you can just come out and say you have no idea what you're talking about.

"Sure thing.....which one of you is gonna run it?"

Oh shit....it's no one.....guess we're playing Shadowrun now. Here's the books you'll need.

Normies don't play tabletop games user. If you are too fucking weird and socially maladjusted for nerds, that might be your own issue. Please try to avoid spree-shooting.

Have you tried TSR D&D?

Dude fuck off.

B/X and its clones are simple and intuitive. The THAC0 algorithm for players is still Roll and add bonuses.

it won't, stupid. nobody that doesn't get serious about the hobby even knows there's alternatives. the only possibility is the only people playing these games are fanatics.

Yeah that's because D&D is better than arbitrary world World.

Of course he hasn't he's fucking millennial, it's kind of obvious.

Dungeon World is inherently a failed game. It takes a good game (Apocalypse World), and misses the point entirely. Taking a system designed as a narrative system and hamfistedly inserting it unlubed into a hack and slash, simulationist , dungeon crawler.

Dungeon World as a result encourages the most LOLRANDUMB gameplay imaginable. Literally "I throw the minotaur at the moon, rofl' 'woo I rolled a 10 and do it'. The entire game just becomes predicated on DM fiat, mother may I and 'suddenly bears lulz'.

At least in D&D for all its flaws when a party goes through a Lich's Lair and defeats the Lich itself it took a degree of skill, though, strategy planning and tactics. In Dungeon World it takes rolling 2d6, describing the LOLRANDUMB way you kill the Lich then hoping for a 10 because if you roll less dinosaurs will appear out of the Lich's arsehole.

Aside from the word "normies" that's a pretty good observation. Some people like it, most people would rather drink other stuff, it's not particularly offensive so it's a good pick if you're catering to a large group, and basically everywhere has it.

This is inherently a failed post. It takes a good fact (Dungeon World is bad), and misses the point entirely.

>shadowrun

If the choice is DM-ing D&D or playing shadowrun, D&D wins unironically 100% of the time.

Dunno. I'd take SR 5e over D&D 3.5.

Must suck having awful normie friends. My normie friends played GURPS with me and enjoyed it.

>many good ideas were ruined by GURPS for example
substantiate your claim fagatron

This is how you end up with no friends at all. Forget about not having people to play with. Being a smarmy douche like that isn't going to help.

GMs must always cater to players' whims. If they refuse to compromise, then by virtue of being the players, they get their way. The wishes of the GM--the person in the group that does the vast majority of the work--are negligible.

Also worth noting is that subpar players deserve intervention and communication while subpar GMs deserve crucifixion.

You can't refuse to sit at the negotiating table and then cry foul when the other party rejects your demands.

>likes coca cola
LMAO kill yourself. Have you ever tried fanta? Or Sprite? Or 7up? Or basocally almost anything else? Fuck even pepsi is better.

I mean them wanting to play D&D doesn't really make them subpar inherently, despite how big a bugaboo the system has become here.
>The wishes of the GM--the person in the group that does the vast majority of the work--are negligible.
Not true, but a GM without players may as well have not done anything at all. If the players don't want to play what you want to run, and you don't want to run what they don't want to play. Find something else to do with your time, but don't be a smug cunt about it.

Shit, the "I'll play D&D angle, but not run it" can still work if it wasn't presented as him being as asshole with it.

>normie
>NORMIE
Kill yourself, newfag. Also, simply grow up a pair and makes them play something else, if D&D is not your cup of piss. It's not rocket science, is it ?!

>"This is pretty fun. I'd like to play classic D&D after a few more sessions of this though"
>from supposedly "normies" who never played any rpg's beforehand

Fuck you, OP.
Also, "have you tried not to play D&D" mandatory meme.

The "subpar" part was in reference to the other bullshit I see on Veeky Forums way too often. If a GM makes a bad call, players are justified in abandoning or even wrecking the game. If the player makes a bad call, the GM needs to be an adult and talk to them. It's a double standard that I'm glad to see on its way out, but it still rears its head from time to time.

As for the main argument, flip it on its head: players without a GM are also useless. It's the responsibilities of both parties to find a compromise, and when one side digs in its heels and refuse to budge right off the bat, I'm going to say they're the assholes in the situation. The GM is not demanding they switch to one specific system--he only wants them to try something, ANYTHING new--yet they still refuse to the point of apparently not discussing it.

WWWWWWWWAAAAAAH MUMMY I LOOOOOOST AN INTERENET ARGUUUUEMEEEEEEEENTTTTTTTTTTTTT
BETTER INSULT THEM
THAT'LL MAKE ME SMARTER

You don't have to run a game that you don't want to run, but these people want to play D&D. It's got vastly more exposure than other TRPG systems, and that's how people hear about it. That's how it was for me. I played D&D for a few years until my entry-level fantasy itch was scratched, then I moved on to other settings. They'll probably do the same. But if they don't, that's okay.

>Have you tried telling them that you don't like playing D&D

>Not entirely.

Do you think your friends are psychic or some shit?

Say "I don't like playing D&D, but there are other systems I enjoy running. I think you guys will have fun." If they don't even know what a 'system' is, fucking explain it. Either they're interested or they're not. And even if they don't want to play a non-D&D system they'll stop pestering you to run D&D.

>all modern RPGs are based off of D&D

>not knowing this much

D&D is the ultimate root of all role playing games.

Most modern RPGs are mired in decades-old concepts like "your character's ability to interact with the game world is primarily defined by three physical scores and three mental scores".

I don't think less than a tenth of modern RPGs counts as "most".

>His normie friends want to play D&D
What the fuck, my nerd friends barely even know D&D exists. What kind of normies do you hang out with?

not that user, but all my gurps groups (GM or not) end up disbanding pretty quickly, around 3 games in, and rarely they remember their characters. While we have played other systems (all of my groups trought the years, whih have been at least 10 diferent ones) and they tend to stick around way longer. My shortest campaign was a 6 months long Superhero game with a freeform "ruleset".

I asked them about it and they say they liked gurps; just making characters was a chore. So never got why really.

Do these normies play DnD
or
are they just looking to get into tabletop/looking to get back in after a long hiatus.

if the latter then you may be able to get them to go with another system so long as the setting is something they like and they have a character concept they are looking to play.