/5eg/ - Fifth Edition General

>college of glamour and college of whispers both still have long cast time ritual like effects that can only be used once while needing to recharge

Why do I even bother giving feedback to wotc

Goddammit Sancho just ride at the windmill already.

If you're not playing with Homebrew, yes, Battlemaster is the best fighter for almost every build, archery included.

what home-brew would be better, just wondering?

Ferocious Charger is hilarious, because you can use it with a ranged weapon.
>just let me run 10 feet before shooting for MORE POWER!

Homebrew that makes Combat Manuevers a core feature of all the Fighting classes, not just the Battlemaster.

Ironically what Fighter was SUPPOSED to be when they first started working on 5e.

Latest leaks? I've only seen the official youtube videos and they don't tell me anything I don't already know. Granted, I haven't really been searching for additional info like leaks to begin with.

The latest leaks are literally in the OP pal

This is always fun.

What do you do for a Critical Failure or Success? Like a 1 or 20 on something they're doing?

Nothing.

>Being a bad DM
>On purpose

Usually give some sort of heroic (on a 20) or comedic (on a 1) description. Never anything mechanical.

Critical failures are instantly a sign of a shit DM who wants to the game to be more about LELZ SO RANDUMB than an actual story.

Is it just me, or is this guy and the bear definitely doing it?

So the more I think about Grave domain the less sense it makes. I mean your 1st level ability is to stop death from happening.That's like if the Tempest cleric's level 1 ability was to stop all storms near him. Sure it's useful and it technically ties into the concept, but it's a little counter-intuitive.

we've known druids fuck animals since day 1 user.

>not stacking ranged sharpshooters and one-rounding all threats

it's like you don't even adventuring party.

listen the only spells you need are pass without trace, stone shape from a party support caster, such as a druid or trickery cleric, a warlock with invisibility, and two longbow sharpshooters and you have the strongest de facto adventuring party.

Surprise round every fight with 6x -5 +10 and a barrage of EB as you portal in through a wall, ezpz

Druid just have some kink with the monk. Leave her alone.

It’s about control over death. Think more Arkay and less Nito.

Critical failures, contrary to popular belief do not have to be catastrophic, maybe perhaps mere inconveniences on most occasions, such as "you overswing and toss your sword to the ground near you". Which is easily remedied by picking it up.

It adds some chaos to battle.

Adds to the chaos of battle, and if you have a class with the Extra Attacks feature, or just go for dual wielding you're more likely to fuck up the better you become at fighting.

Crit fails are a fucking plague and those who insist on it should never DM any game whatsoever.

>20 level fighter has a 1/5 chance of dropping his sword
>Every six seconds
Kill yourself.

I mean sure, but your character is all about respecting the cycle of life and death. Except when he really wants someone to live, I guess. Then they get a free pass. A cleric of Wee Jas is there to bring dignity to death, protect the dead from being used for nefarious purposes, and shepherd peoples' souls into their afterlife. The grave cleric already has a spell for someone who drops to 0 HP. It's called gentle repose.

>Needing to waste time and opportunity to pick up a weapon you're trained and competent with.
Such zany, much wow.

Because it makes total sense that the expert swordfighter has a 5% chance of accidentally throwing away his sword.
And sure, it's not a huge inconvenience, except when he's already used his object interaction for the turn, so it just lies there, where any enemy can pick it up.
And of course the wizard will never face any problems from this because they can just use save spells.

>tfw when Shadow Blade is way stronger than Holy Weapon

This heresy must end.

Ah, I thought yours was an argument for a more necromancy aligned cleric out of the PHB. Carry on.

Like, picking up the sword is like an interact with enviroment, doesn't exactly take that long.

That and you could expand it to other things, as in that lets say you roll a 1 then a 20. You could have the misstep of the one cost you a sure strike

(in other words, have the 1 cancel the crit, but still have the roll for it hit)

hello hyperbole, how are you.

Also, with a reasonable DM, they can just vary the failure, and have it be other misteps, or really, if there's nothing applicable, you DONT HAVE TO DO IT.

Because trained persons never make mistakes. At all. Whatsoever.

goalpost.jpg

Bottom line, crit fails do not have to be the catastrophic "LE EPIC STAB SELF" that is the popular meme against them, just have them be small inconveniences. You've seen stories and tales where small minor hiccups in battle shift things dramatically, the hero gets cocky and misteps, dropping his sword, having to improvise with a bare knunckle brawl until he can grab his weapon off the ground in the few sparse moments of clarity in the battle.

Sounds way more fucking exciting than "you miss. Beep boop next turn."

>tfw I've been eyeballing AT rogue for the last few weeks
I cannot contain the erection

Speaking of shadow blade, I find it hilarious that warlocks get the spell but can't really make use of it. Hexblades and bladelocks can't use their features or invocations with it. Who is this spell for, bladesingers and arcane tricksters only? Cheese multiclasses?

>I am a 20 level fighter.
>I literally have about 15% chance of dropping my weapon every 6 seconds
F U N
U
N

In fairness to the critical fails guy, if you drop your sword during an attack, you aren't actually dropping your sword. The dick that you're attacking found an opening and smacked your sword out of your hand.

That said, I don't do critical fails as any sort of mechanical thing in combat. I think we occasionally do them for social checks because it's funny, but we don't have any rule set in stone.

EK can make use of it (though it takes up one of the "not limited" slots). Do sorcerers gain it? Twinned+quickened bladespell is actually a fair amount of attacks to make use of the damage die.

But yeah, multiclass gish fodder mostly.

I bet critical fails guy is a wizard player. They're always trying to sneak rules into existence that nerf martials. They mostly succeeded with 5e's playtest, but that isn't enough for them.

You can Holy Weapon other people's weapons, including ranged weapons. Ranger complaining that they can't deal with monsters resistant to their arrows? Cleric Holy Weapon's their longbow.

your a shit DM and or Player. I'm glad no-one from my group browses here because I'd hate to be playing with you.

it's godly for AT rogues. I think that's the intended- works for sneaky types in darkness, grants advantage, illusion school, etc.

Good: Hexblade doesn't seem to be weird. Capstone replaced tons of UA abilities, and the dog thing is gone and replaced with decent ability..

Good: Tensers Transformation just seems lulz

Bad: RIP armor of peace (kinda dug the armorless paladin for this archtype meh)

Bad: As others have said, Shadow Blade seems... weird.. another niche spell like Flame Blade... and why is Holy Weapon not given the same weapon properties.. sigh..

Like again, the chances of it are low, and it's not like fighters use "interact with environment" that often. It's really just a room for description and chaos to occur, and it gives a choice for a description, that and it sounds tense to see your sword near an edge when it's flown out of your hand.

EXACTLY THIS
Sometimes things occur because of your opponent's movements, battle is chaotic, even for a level 20 fighter.

Boy howdy you are wrong, I fucking hate pathfinder, so I don't know where you are coming from when you say I love wizards. Fighters are like an underdog to me, they have had it shit over the years.

>Veeky Forums browing for games
yeah good luck with that buddy

If you want a critical fumble then everytime the target of a wizards save rolls a 20 and suceeds the wizard's spellbook is knocked out of his hand. It shouldn't be too troublesome because its only an object interaction right?

>Sometimes things occur because of your opponent's movements, battle is chaotic, even for a level 20 fighter.

Why is it 4 times more chaotic than for a level 1 wizard?

nice strawman
just because it isnt a crit fail doesnt mean it cant be roleplayed mongoloid

Same mechanics, embarrassing/awesome description.

>And of course the wizard will never face any problems from this because they can just use save spells.
I did it once, because we did a "lol randumb" campaign where the God of Chaos had gained a bit too much influence, and supernaturally made everything risky, even for halflings and divination wizards.

A successful saving throw of 20 did something to the original caster. The effects was extremely different depending on what was cast and on whom, but that was the solution to the "save spells cant crit/critfail" issue we had.

Of course, this was a joke campaign, and was meant to be random and stupid. I would never include crit fails in a campaign outside of very specific situations where it makes sense, and it will never be "lel you are dumb and does something incredibly illogical, or act extremely incompetent when it makes no sense to do so.

If there's something that can go wrong, it would go wrong on a 1. No 'you hit your ally no matter where they are', but if you're shooting right through an ally's space it's no surprise that you may hit them in the heat of combat when you're trying to get as many shots off as possible.
Otherwise, nothing happens. Of course, skill checks and such could still succeed even with a stroke of bad luck.

Nat 20s usually have 'lucky conditions' but doesn't mean it's any better than a plain old good check. Though it can be fun to have a weak enemy lose a good chunk or whatever since that hardly matters.

There are mistakes that trained people don't make, either at all or with any reasonable frequency.

> Hexblade not weird
are you fucking stupid user? Its the most broken piece of shit wotc has pushed thus far, and that includes all three mystic UA. Which, I hasten to point out, all of these have been Mearls' pet projects.

>What do you do for a Critical Failure

Reroll

Samurai looks pretty good in the new leak, would make a good archer.

>complains about hyperbole
>immediately uses hyperbole

>hello hyperbole, how are you.
It's not hyperbole. A 20th level fighter has 4 attacks a round, each with a 1/20 (or 5%) chance to fumble. 4x5 is 20, and 20% is 1/5. A round is 6 seconds. Therefore, 20th level fighters have a 1/5 chance to drop their sword every 6 seconds.
>if there's nothing applicable, you DONT HAVE TO DO IT.
Yeah, don't do it.
>Because trained persons never make mistakes. At all. Whatsoever.
Missing is a mistake. Professional swordfighters don't throw their weapon away 5% of the time.
>just have them be small inconveniences
Except because of how the mechanics of d&d work, dropping your sword and being forced to fistfight until you can get it back isn't a 'small inconvenience'. Especially when nonmagical damage resistances get involved. It's a drop in damage, potentially a significant one, and if you don't pick the weapon up immediately your enemy can grab it and leave you unarmed.
Otherwise you're basically just making the fighter use their free object interaction for no reason and it adds nothing to the fight.

You can't twin the shadow blade
Unless you mean quicken the shadow blade summoning, then use a twinned blade cantrip with it?

I want to physically and emotionally harm this halfling!

"not weird" .. the dog thing was super weird ... and didn't make sense (mesh well? meh)..

i will concede it is broken as fuck .. sorry was more conceding that it wasn't as oddball as the ua had it.. lol

>The dick that you're attacking found an opening and smacked your sword out of your hand.
Disarming is a special attack action with an opposed roll. There are rules for this, and it's retarded to ignore them because le funny nat 1 maymay.

>the chances of it are low

You have a 64% chance of dropping your weapon at Level 20 in an average-length combat of 5 rounds. 1-(19/20)^20 = 0.64151407759

It is almost a statistical certainty that a Fighter will drop his goddamned weapon out of his hand once per session.

>Like again, the chances of it are low,
Around 15% chance per turn is not a low chance, holy shit.
>It's really just a room for description and chaos to occur, and it gives a choice for a description
This is fine though.
>and it sounds tense to see your sword near an edge when it's flown out of your hand.
No it is not. It is frustrating at best, because your high level fighter should not drop his sword due to a roll of 1. Now you are not only overly punishing him for his high amount of attacks, you are also potentially taking him out of thr fight if this is the only weapon he is currently carrying, or the only magic weapon he has that can overcome an immunity on the enemy.

And if it isnt a risk, but just a "uuuuuuh this miiiight happen, but lol it won't hehe xd such tension", then you are just being a faggot.

So many things are dumb about these new player options

>college of swords has to spend bardic inspiration die to be good in combat
>college of whispers/fey have features with minute long cast times that instead of being at will have to recharge
>Shepherd druid unicorn and hawk have overlapping skill check bonuses
>shepherd druid in general being a minion bot (super annoying for everyone not the druid)
>dream druid lost its teleport every 1d4 rounds, instead gets recharge on a short rest (why)
>arcane archer still only gets 2 uses of their core class feature. (it should have just been something they can do once per turn)
>the entire samurai subclass

The fact that in some cases the unearthed arcana versions were actually better designed than the shit we have now really pisses me off.

>1/5 chance
I'm not the crit fumble faggot but it might be different math for those drop chances like, 17% or 18% because 1/20 chance with 4 different outcomes adds up weirdly.

>Because trained persons never make mistakes. At all. Whatsoever.

I mean if you are playing a "realistic" setting it might be alright but if you are playing standard your characters are pretty much expected to vastly overperform what a normal person could do, this is an epic game

No no, you need to roll a d20 every time a spell is cast. Then on every 1 the caster metaphysically drops their spell and has to go pick it up again.

I.. I agree with you user, but holy shit you are bad at statistics.

>Collaborative 4-man strawman
>Implying that every nat 1 makes you drop your weapon
>Implying every nat 1 has to do something detrimental

Xanathar is fucking great, his quotes are gems.

It's called balancing.

Even better, they lose the spellslot if they drop it and cant regain it until they suceed on a DC15+spell level Arcana Check.

Your math is seriously wrong.
If anything, the fighter has 1-(0.95)^4 to fumble at least once, which is about 18.5%. The difference is not huge, but your mistake is terrible.

It's 1-(19/20)^4

The number after the ^ is how many times you're rolling that probability.

>college of swords has to spend bardic inspiration die to be good in combat
Sword bards are already pretty good in combat. These are basically just maneuvers using inspiration die as their pool.
And honestly, sword bards in general have been buffed from the original UA.

Polimorph his fish and command it to attack him. The fish is the only thing he's not paranoid about. He would go beserk

Please, read the whole chain before posting.

Got someone who wants to make their Bard character a historian, raconteur and orator who has no instrument but instead channels their magic through their voice and the phrases and quotes that he uses to inspire the party members (and provoke/distract enemies).

As DM I'm all for it but are there any potential diegetic or gameplay reasons it shouldn't work? The only problem I can see is that his spellcasting focus can't be taken away from him as easily as other bards, which I'm comfortable with.

Pic related. Character is inspired in certain respects by Tolstoy.

>implying a wizard has his spellbook out all the time

Your argument would make more sense if it was an arcane focus. If so, then yeah, I'd apply it as such.

Wizard is having to comprehend the source code of the universe. Also, you could have his attack roll spells miss and hit unintended targets if so desired. as in lets say his buddy is in the line of fire next to the guy you are trying to hit.

That doesn't mean do it every time, because it would get old fast, but just to spice things up.

What is there to the roleplayed description if there is not an impact upon the world at large?

That's what 5% is, that few instances of mortal humanlike error, or the world at large. shit just happens sometimes.

Hyperbole can be used for a point, but I am not relying on it, I am trying to communicate that critfails are not the popular meme of "I stab myself" all the time.

You could argue that roleplaying descriptions add nothing to the fight with that last point in mind, but it seems a lot more interesting than "You miss. Bob it's your turn now"

Buddy, let me tell you, I have run several games with loads of martial characters, and that 64% chance seems unlikely as you make it out. Anecdotal? Yes. As bad as you make it out to be? No.

Sanest person here

Bottom line: think of inconveniences as a spice to a natural 1, not the flour that is the base to it.

As in if there's a tense climatic scene, you could have the ones mean the swords lock between your fighter and the BBEG, and rule it that the BBEG is locked too, but he seems to have a slightly more better position, as he bears over you with his weight on the blade.

Honestly, you could also have the 1 be somewhat to the player's benefit, as in if he overshoots the axe throw, it could accidentally hit the door past the target and close it, which could be good if you're trying to box in a weaselly fucker in the room your after

Sounds like you need a couple of eye beams.

I've always like druids, because they are made from natural ingredients. And I believe everyone should have a healthy diet.

wtb more quotes, lets just rip out some of these pages and replace them with quips from xanathar

But then if they roll a 1 on the Arcana check...
I can't wait to think of all the crazy implications that one has.

Didn't know that they nerfed monster slayer ranger to shit. Sad to see it go really.

>punish the wizards party for the wizard getting a critical fail
hey nice try bud but your wizard hat is showing in this post

>Collaborative 4-man strawman
Math is a strawman.
>Implying every nat 1 has to do something detrimental
Well that's the point of critical fumbles isn't it? That something detrimental happens when you roll a nat1?
>The difference is not huge, but your mistake is terrible.
You're right. I was going to commit seppuku but I kept dropping my sword. Please forgive me.

If you don't care about the focus think, i can't see anything wrong with it. On the contrary, it makes more sense to me than faggy singing when you should be stabbing the guy before you.

Also, Tolstoy rocks, i would love to see how it plays.

You could easily apply this to an archer's missed shots, not only a wizard and also have it be within reason. if they are within the DIRECT line of the intended target, maybe a square or so off, have it be a possibility, but if they are an almost 45 degree angle away from the line of fire, OBVIOUSLY DO NOT APPLY IT.

>it seems a lot more interesting than "You miss. Bob it's your turn now"
It certainly isn't to fighter player.

Explain yourself.

The opinion of one faggot who thinks throwing your sword everywhere is fun isn't a detriment to doing nat 1s properly.

>Well that's the point of critical fumbles isn't it? That something detrimental happens when you roll a nat1?
That's the mindset that leads to throwing your weapon everywhere.
The idea is that only what can go wrong goes wrong. If there's no reason you might be more likely to throw your weapon than usual, I don't know why you would be throwing your weapon.
The purpose of nat 1s is twofold: First, to punish risky behaviour with an actual consequence. Secondly, to make rolling a nat 1 potentially interesting as people wait for the consequences. It doesn't have to be anything that actually matters usually, but it's a letdown when you do something absolutely ridiculous such as firing past 5 civilians and then roll a nat 1 and then you just say 'No, nothing happens, level 1 archer.'

>seriously wrong
>1.5%
not him but you guys are all bein extremely acoustic pointing that out when he was obviously just using it to make an actual point so focus on that instead

>The only problem I can see is that his spellcasting focus can't be taken away from him as easily as other bards, which I'm comfortable with.
That's basically the only issue, yeah. Everything else just seems like normal Lore Bard stuff.
If the arcane focus thing is an issue, just make him use a wand refluffed as a slightly enchanted pen or something.

You think its not that bad because you are looking it from the perepective of a cruel god, Im pretty sure your players were not amused by that bullshit, they just put up with it

They don't have to use a focus, they can use a component pouch for material components
I think most bard spells don't have M components anyway

Okay so here's an itemized list of why you're fucking retarded:

1.) This dumb cunt is the one who thought dumping your sword on a one was a good idea to add into your game.

2.) This dumb cunt is the one who thinks that not only missing an attack, but REMOVING YOUR ABILITY TO DO ALL OTHER ATTACKS THAT ACTION is a "minor inconvenience"

3.) This is clearly you samefagging, we're onto you motherfucker

how about instead of punishing someone else for a crit fail you just dont have them at all

heres a good one, crit saves causes wizards magic to backfire making them suffer half damage of their spells
its just a minor inconvenience, right guys?