Pathfinder General /pfg/

I did, he says it's very simple to understand.
ok, more contex:

He sent us a file with:
Sources he allows
Stuff he allows from sources he doesn't allow entirely
Stuff he doesn't allow from sources he allow almost entirely

Quick dirty trick was in the third, and improved dirty trick in the second. When asked if this was a mistake he said no, when asked to develop that he said there was no need, that it's simple to understand

He's right. You don't need the qualifying feat to take the feat that requires it because he is giving you permission to do so.

Already tried that, didn't work

Leave the mansion because there's adventures to be had and fights to be won. Rich life is boring.

He wants to allow dirty tricks, but only if they waste your entire turn?

Then just leave the game nigga.

This. Got zero patience for this shit and neither should you.

thank you for telling me what I already was going to do and already mentioned in my first post

So why are you bitching about it here, do you want a prize or something?

I was answering to one user's question

Here's your (you), will you go away now that we've given you enough attention?

It's not "martials can do other stuff" level for like teleporting and doing various shenanigans that PoW allows, but it does allow martial classes to get significantly more mileage out of their existing combat feats. And it's per-encounter unlike pretty much everything else Paizo puts out, without being PoW where you can regain everything as a single-turn action while in combat, meaning management of abilities is still in play while you use your abilities.

As for the stuff itself, it varies depending on the feat. Some of them are just "increase this bonus by X amount", and others are stuff like "make a full-attack as a standard action" (Pummeling Style) or "get Int to attacks for free" (Kirin Strike). Not necessarily something you'd build around entirely, but it can boost an already existing build.

>ask questions
>get answers because you asked questions
>U R TROLE
Is this bait or are you legitimately this retarded?

So, lads, I want to be a muscle sorcerer and punch shit. I know this is suboptimal and I'm fine with that. I'm not sure whether I should go with orc/abyssal crossblood or take draconic, either by itself or with one of the others, to get 4 levels of draconic disciple. Also, any other stuff that'd work well with unarmed attacks/natural weapons as a sorc?

Has anybody got a download link for Ultimate Wilderness yet?

probably have to wait until the 15th at least, that's the street date.

>muscle sorcerer and punch shit.
You mean a Bloodrager?

Not unless it turns out to be completely nonviable to do this with a sorcerer, no.

Are we still doing homebrew for the Shifter? I have one, but I'd want a bit of review in case the wording is too complex or not clear enough.

Sweet, Thanks

Fucking go for it, I need some faith in the community restored after watching paizotards claim the class is "totally super good guys"

>Make WAH! MY DM WAS MEAN TO ME! post
>People fall for it and give you attention
>People give you actual advice
>I WAS GOING TO DO THAT ALL ALONG LOL!
>I WAS ONLY ANSWERING QUESTIONS, I WASN'T BEGGING FOR ATTENTION
user, I think you need to look in the mirror before throwing words like retard around.

docs.google.com/document/d/1hlVvsJqyWwJq80kcUcGmjussdqm7JiRHiFyzjckUILY/edit

Comments are enabled. The aspects are mostly placeholders, but the abilities are pretty much done. Any comments are good though.

Thanks for the input. I took the time this afternoon to read it over and while there's promise in some of the Feat uses a lot of it just looks like it's polishing a turd. Additionally in reading over the system I'm worried that there's now so much more extra shit piled on Feats that most players will just fuck it off. I would really love to see a system that kind of sits between this and PoW. Like something where Stamina grants stuff separate to Feats like:

>Spend stamina to initiate a counter to an attack as an immediate action using an attack or skill check
>Spend stamina to nullify none iterative attack penalties
>Spend X stamina to boost a save
>Spend a lot of stamina to reroll a save
>Spend X stamina to boost movement (more stamina required to boost a 5 foot step over say general movement)
>Spend X stamina to boost a physical skill check
>Spend X stamina to reduce penalties from iterative attacks
>Spend stamina to increase your effective size for combat maneuveurs of boost CMD/CMB

That sort of thing. Basically as long as you can pay the stamina cost then you can potentially just do said things. I guess kind of like Panache/Grit that wasn't so mediocre with some of the stuff from PoW thrown in. I think a lot of my frustration from PoW (aside form the lack of errata) also comes form the fact that a lot of it feels like 'spells but not spells' and the huge amount of redundancy in certain manoeuvres. Fuck it I might just try and put some homebrew together.

Nothing wrong with making stamina-based maneuvers. Hell, might be more balanced than the PoW ones.

Although, I will point out that two/three of them already exist. Snake Style is sense motive vs an attack, and by spending stamina you can do it as an AoO instead of an immediate action. And you can natively use Stamina to boost attacks. 1 stamina is +1 to your attack roll, up to +5 total.

My DM has offered to allow the entirety of the dungeon we will spend our entire campaign inside count as my location for the site bound Oracle curse. Is this as amazing as it sounds or is a +1 cl overated compared to other Oracle curses

>Additionally in reading over the system I'm worried that there's now so much more extra shit piled on Feats that most players will just fuck it off.
To be perfectly honest, a lot of the stuff Stamina adds on to feats, namely EVERY SINGLE PASSIVE EFFECT, should have been part of the feat to begin with.

I think probably the best way to do that type of build is with the Shapeshifter Bloodline. you won't be punching shit with your natural form, but it's still a melee combatant sorcerer.

lack of BAB is going to make you awful

So, speaking of Shifter, if I thought Shifter was complete irredeemable trash and just wanted to replace the summoning shit from the Feral Hunter archetype with a choice slice of the Shifter, what would work best? The Claw feature? The Wis-to-AC? Some bundle of ribbon abilities? I'm assuming I'd be replacing all teamwork feats and the "precise x" thing for whatever it is.

No take your weird magical realm some where else

Cool I didn't notice the Snake Style stam version. Gives me some ideas at least on what I can do with creating a more modular system. Likely I'll tie stam amounts into levels in classes like Fighter, Ranger, Paladin etc and cap the amount that can be spent in a single action (and cap other actions). Like throw in some limited abilities to regenerate a bit of stam in combat (keep it fairly dynamic rather than just blow your load and rest after combat), keep a list of stuff you can do by investing stamina and throw in a few feats (maybe modify existing ones) that allow you to do a few more specific things (I'd ideally like to keep this light weight though). Thanks user.

I absolutely agree. It makes me despair at how mediocre some feats STILL are even with spending stamina. Some of them are admittedly pretty good though.

Feats in general need reworking. some chains need to just be one singular feat, some feats need their passive stamina boost, and some feats should just be base functions that everyone gets, or otherwise functions of Skills that are unlocked at a certain point much like the skill unlocks.

>It makes me despair at how mediocre some feats STILL are even with spending stamina.

See We need to go back, take Elephant in the Room, the Stamina system, and a bunch of other houserule shit, and fucking blow that shit up so it covers more things and unfucks a lot of feats. Unfortunately that would require an entire Hardcover's worth of text for feat fixes, which is a fuckload of work in both research and design that I doubt any homebrewer is insane enough to attempt.

i might be, if i ever get the time to do it. my sanity was always in question, after all.

>we need to go back

I don't want to write pathfinder 2, bye.

>implying he was OP

[Starfinder Intensifies]

oh, god no, not Starfinder. really not a fan of that system. but that's because it's a Space Opera System that doesn't have giant Mecha. that's a crime right there.

Supposedly, mech rules are coming up soon now that the Alien Archive is out.

and knowing Paizo, they will probably be clunky as hell.

>GM uses theatre of the mind
>3 large creature at 60 ft in front of you in a less than 20° angle are able to charge you
I hate when people don't use squares just to fuck you over with this kind of shit

Actual newbie question : why is the shifter considered bad? To me it looks mediocre at best, something like a monk... What's so bad about the class that it's considered trash?

Monks are trash.

Shifter is literally worse than Druid at its gimmick

The problem is that it doesn't fill a niche; Druid and Hunter (with the Feral archetype) can accomplish what it sets out to do (be a wildshaping warrior) much better due to much improved inherent versatility and self-buffs that make up for everything they lose out on compared to the shifter.

Mediocre at best is a good reason to consider something trash. The other issue is that Shifter, a class designed around transforming into varying forms, is worse at it than multiple other classes and archetypes who have that same ability as a secondary class feature.

Yeah I'm going with EitR anyways and once I've cobbled something resembling the foundations of a more modular stamina system together then I'll probably try and unfuck/combine as many feats as I can. Given how monumental a job it is I'm only planning to unfuck really obvious feats and probably do the rest as the players take an interest in feats.

Can we request stuff to go up on the SoP wiki? I'd like to see the Strange Magic tab expanded with the rest of Interjection's stuff from that line (Tinker, Antipodist, Onmyoudo when it releases this month).

It really falls into the same trap as the ranger-a lot of its abilities are either inferior versions of things other classes do well, or just not that good in the first place.

because clases who aren't even built around that are better than the shifter at it

my idea was to have entire feat chain progressions taken as a single feat, which was then unlocked via BAB. for example, you take "Improved Shield Bash" at level 1. then, at level 6, you get "Shield Slam," followed by "Shield Mastery" at level 11, both for free because you took "Improved Shield Bash" Earlier.

What's your poison?
DSP, or Spheres?

Your only option then is to go Dragon Disciple then.

DSP. i loved Psionics and Tome of Battle back in 3.5, and this has remained unchanged. so i love DSP for bringing them into Pathfinder.

Personally, Spheres. I've never been a fan of relying on premade packaged abilities, ruins the narrative flow for me. But that's just my subjective opinion

I far prefer DSP's work. Particularly psionics.

1: It's a natural weapon class that only gets 2 natural weapons, when natural weapon characters are all about gaining multiple natural weapons to make impressive full attacks
2: The class is built around wildshaping, but its wildshape never improved beyond Beast Shape II, leaving it far behind anything similar after 7th level.
3: It has no abilities that boost its attack and damage even though it is a melee fighter. It gets something similar to the hunter's animal focus, but it only provides an enhancement bonus and was meant to be a weak supplemental ability rather than a main feature.
4: That's it, the shifter barely gets anything besides these three extremely mediocre abilities. I would actually rate the core fighter and monk higher. At least the fighter gets a sizable attack and damage bonus and can make more than two attacks in a round. At least the monk can make a large number of attacks.
The shifter is an empty class that feels like it wasn't finished. In game, it will struggle to contribute to most combats where even other weak classes would do fine.
Exempting NPC classes, I'd go as far as to say that the shifter is the worst class paizo has ever designed.
To put it another way, if you took the druid and removed its ability to cast spells entirely, it would still be superior to the shifter.

If I just wanted a peaceful and pampered life for the rest of my days, I would've retired at level 2. Characters in Pathfinder become absurdly rich by the standards of normal people very quickly, so wealth doesn't really work as a character motivation.

>something like a monk
You have to wonder why something that looks like the worst class in the game is considered mediocre?

Everything it gets is infinitely shittier versions of things other classes are getting. Comparing it to a monk should be a blaring siren with flashing red lights.

>What would your character do if they were given a manor and a guarantee of a peaceful and pampered life in there for the rest of their days?

They already have that. I guess it doesn't really count since she got it after the game ended, but still.

How do you guys deal with high level play? Not so much epic but 12+.

I have to say one thing for the Paizo forums, it's hilariously easy to spot the paidrones compared to the regular users.

Which class makes the ultimate dungeon explorer? No animal companions or downtime stuff, just good old fashioned exploration, trap disarming and fighting.

embrace the madness

Archaeologist Bard my dude

Core Rogue.

Casters

>multiple long-winded conversations about why shifter is awful even at its stated goal
>people still keep coming out of the woodwork to claim it's good, despite not actually offering real counterpoints to prove it
>"Druid is OP I'm glad it's not like that"
>one random guy who slaps a 5-star review because it's new, and another who just posts "it's everything I ever wanted!"

NANI

The only arguments I've seen are "IT'S FULL BAB"

Why hasn't your character succumbed to the sweet siren song of death and just leave this corporeal realm of misery and darkness?

welp. this is gonna drive me to drink. never thought people could ACTUALLY be that unapologetically stupid. can't wait to hear about their Darwin Awards.

He did. The fact that he's back makes him PISSED.

because as shitty as the world may be, the small bits worth fighting for...are REALLY worth fighting and living for. so he'll fight. and live. and continue doing so for as long as it takes.

Because i'm too powerful @.@

That's just Paizo employees shilling, right? No one could actually be that stupid...right?

MUH FULL BEE AYY BEEEEEEEEEEE REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

If my experience with people who are stupid enough to become fans of companies (Biodrones, ect ect), people can actually be that stupid

Well there are people in these threads that fall for every bait imaginable, so I am sure that there are people stupid enough to rate anything 5 stars just because they are fanatics of the publisher.

Trap Breaker Alchemist is quite good for that.

>That's just Paizo employees shilling, right? No one could actually be that stupid...right?

You'd think that, but no. There was an almost two-page argument over whether Shifter had a longer duration on its aspects than the Hunter, in which a guy adamantly refused to acknowledge that the companionless Hunter getting it all-day, with access to more aspects, "counted".

welp. Help us, Darwin, because God's clearly not listening.....

So because Ultimate Wilderness is shit, how about I dump the Rule Element List from the People of the Wastes Product Discussion Page so we can have even more shit to despair over?

Alchemical Cartridges: molten shot cartridge (40 gp), repellent cartridge (30 gp), toxic cartridge (100 gp)
Alchemical Tools and Weapons: bore brush (75 gp), firearm oil (260 gp), mineral acid (50 gp), thunderclap charge (200 gp)

Archetypes: Blightwarden Ranger (Ranger), Constructed Pugilist (Brawler), Elysiokineticist (Kineticist), Faithful Wanderer (Paladin), Flood Flourisher (Hunter), Gun Chemist (Alchemist), Gun Smuggler (Rogue), Keepr of Constructs (Inquisitor), Mutated Defender (Vigilante), Primal Warden (Shaman), Proclaimer (Warpriest), Scatter Gunner (Gunslinger), Toxic Sniper (Slayer), Undying Word (Skald), Wasteland Chronicler (Bard)

Early Firearms: cylinder rifle (two-handed, 6,000 gp), paddle-foot pistol (one-handed, 2,500 gp)

Feats: Agent of Purity (Story), Aligned Crafting, Battering Repair (Grit), Create Enhanced Firearm, Elemental Conversion, Primal Kineticist, Primal Strike (Combat), Reinforce Crafting, Runic Charge (Combat), Signature Strike Style (Combat, Style), Signature Strike Taunt (Combat), Signature Strike Triumph (Combat), Sizzling Shot (Grit), Spell-Drinker, Stock-Striker Style (Combat, Style), Stock-Striker Sweep (Combat), Stock-Striker Takedown (Combat)

Magic Items: anthill boots (feet, 12,500 gp), beast talisman (neck, 18,900 gp), bracers of primal mastery (wrists, 30,000 gp), grasping cloak (shoulders, 3,000 gp), medallion of demonic disruption (neck, 32,000 gp), nail of blood (special, 25,000 gp), primal dowser (none, 1,800 gp), vermin mask (head, 10,080 gp), wand protector (none, 18,500 gp), wheel of survival (none, 1,800 gp)

Ranger Traps: blighted mark trap (Ex or Su), cleansing trap (Ex or Su), infected snare trap (Ex or Su)

(1/2)

>a kineticist archetype

OH BOY I CANT WAIT FOR IT TO BE SHIT

>Firearm Oil

....i...i almost dare to hope. a way to reduce Misfire Chance?

Spells: absorbing barrier (alchemist 4, sorcerer/wizard 4, summoner 4), drain construct (sorcerer/wizard 2, witch 2), forced mutation (cleric 3, inquisitor 3, magus 3, occultist 3, sorcerer/wizard 3, witch 3), hide from undead, greater (cleric 3, inquisitor 3), influence wild magic (bard 2, cleric 2, druid 2, medium 2, mesmerist 2, ranger 2, sorcerer/wizard 2, summoner 2, witch 2), unhallowed blows (antipaladin 1, cleric 1, inquisitor 1, sorcerer/wizard 1, witch 1), unhallowed blows, greater (antipaladin 3, cleric 3, inquisitor 3, sorcerer/wizard 3, witch 3), violent misfire (sorcerer/wizard 3), violent misfire, mass (sorcerer/wizard 6)

Traits: Alkenstar Engineer (Regional), Angradd's Flame (Religion - Angradd), Ash Bane (Regional - Wastelands), Besmara's Strength (Religion - Besmara), Blight's Bane (Combat), Brigh's Insight (Religion - Brigh), Clockwork Engineer (Combat), Darkblight Survivor (Regional - Nirmathas), Demonblight Resistance (Magic), Dormant Defense (Combat), Gozreh's Sight (Religion - Gozreh), Inheritor's Immunity (Religion - Iomedae), Lamia's Bane (Magic), Neutralizing Gut (Race - Tiefling), Ogre Avoidance (Combat), Pack Savy (Social), Scamper (Race - Ratfolk), Sodden Child (Regional - Sodden Lands), Spellcaster's Anathema (Race - Dwarf), Tanglebriar Guerilla (Regional - Kyonin), Twisted Tattoo (Magic), Undergrowth Specialist (Combat), Venom Resistance (Combat), Volatile Fuse (Combat), Wasteland Vagrant (Social)

Vigilante Talents: aquatic action, gator wrangle, swamp concoctions, vortex splash

Witch Hexes: congeal, murksight, pollute water, polluting glance, sink

(2/2)

The PotW discussion page has been fucking dead as shit compared to UW, but if anyone wants details I can give a look through to see if any were dropped.

Every time I see that picture, all I can hear in my head is generic blacksploitation music.

Should I just dip the one level in Bolt Ace for a masterwork repeating crossbow before going all in on Alchemist if I want to hit things with long range explosives?

>Unhallowed Blows

so where's the Good aligned Version, then? Because Statistically speaking, the things that kill the evil are more efficient than the things that kill the good because there's more targets.