Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay 4th Edition is going to be released later this year. That being said, my group is interested in moving to another system from D&D 5e. Should we wait until 4th Edition is released, or should we just start now and play 2nd Edition?
Also, what are the pros and cons of WFRP? I've read the core rules for 2nd Edition, but never actually sat down and played it.
2nd ed is dope but dated. I'd wait for 4th. If it has no careers - drop it into a furnace and play 2nd.
Pros: Some very deep and cool lore, if you like 40k/warhammer style neverending darkness.
Cons: Very limited player selection, in terms of races. This being warhammer, your party is likely to be mostly human with a dwarf or elf. Also, it is hard in dark fantasy to feel like anything other then a cog, you don't feel particularily heroic like you can in higher level dnd.
An alternative to WHFRPG might be shadows of the demon lord. It has the same dark feel to it, but the advancement tends to be more fun.
Really depends on what the PCs want out of the game.
Oh, another suggestion, Zweihander. It's warhammer rpg updated in all but name (they changes the name to zweihander for legal purposes.) You might get a huge kick out of that RPG, and you can totally place it in the Warhammer universe with no modding.
Cons: Very limited player selection, in terms of races. This being warhammer, your party is likely to be mostly human with a dwarf or elf.
not a problem in my opinion. The diversity in WFRP always came from the careers anyway, not from the race selection, and having fewer choices means that the races who are available are usually well integrated to the lore and well defined, contrary to something like D&D where half the time people will just play a human that looks like a demon/angel/orc/bird/cat/etc. with little influence on the actual character.
I just hope halflings are still here.
There is nothing to do in combat but the default attack. You have to make up the rules yourself outside of combat, because the skills are just a vague guideline at best. They haven't thought it through at all so everyone has absolutely abysmal odds of success at everything they try. RAW, even peasants would only be able to successfully plant something only 60% of the time at best.
>If he doesn't care about blocking, the average dirt-farming peasant has a 51% chance of hitting you with a rock.
>If his friend is helping him his chance increases to 61%.
>abysmal odds of success
idk m8, it seems like you just haven't played the game
Illiterate peasants trying to master agricultural techniques in a world where acid rains are a common occurence? 2 out of 3 seems pretty good for getting something to grow honestly.
Nothing to do but the default attack? The fuck?
Kinda true, I hope they fix it in 4th, the 40k RPGs are actually really fun in combat but WFRP2 is pretty dumb in terms of strategy (except maybe for mages). Basically you have all those actions that are so terribly balanced that it's almost always better to just charge and then full attack no matter the situation. Also the weapons are terribly balanced and all the weapon attributes are shit except for one that's completely OP (the one that lets you roll 2 dice and keep the highest on your damage)
>I just hope halflings are still here.
The 4e devs have said they're drawing from 1 and 2. That means halflings, ratcatchers, and small (but vicious) dogs.
Then as long as they don't bring in mana points for mages or some dumb class system, it'll probably be good.
>almost always better to just charge and then full attack no matter the situation.
Sounds like 40k and WHFB
Cubicle 9 runs a tight ship. It will probably be good, though I wonder what sort of changes will be made. As long as I can play it without having to deal with a million proprietary components like 3rd Edition then I will be happy. It might even become the definitive edition.
>There is nothing to do in combat but the default attack.
Patently wrong even if you're only talking melee. You have a standard attack, aim + attacks, swift attacks to do more attacks less accurately than an aimed one, charges, all out attacks, stunning strikes, feints, defensive stances, parrying stances, and a simple grappling system that works.
>You have to make up the rules yourself outside of combat, because the skills are just a vague guideline at best.
Virtually every RPG requires a DM to say when a skill or stat check is needed.
>so everyone has absolutely abysmal odds of success at everything they try. RAW, even peasants would only be able to successfully plant something only 60% of the time at best.
When it comes to skill tests, this is only true if your DM does not understand he is supposed to apply situational modifiers to rolls if they're even needed. In combat, the relatively lower odds of hitting someone compared to say, D&D are there due to the much higher lethality and to encourage parties to team up on foes to gain sweet to-hit bonuses and sap the enemy's reactions
This being said, the system does have flaws. It suffers from considerable skill bloat. A lot of information is spread across many splats. Weapon balance is poor and needs a DM to rework it to make more weapon choices work competitively. Balancing encounters is not something the system helps you do well.
40k RPGs are maybe not the most tactical games ever, but they're still leagues above WFRP2. There are still several viable combat styles to choose from, situational weaponryand equipment, some interesting interactions between range and melee (pistols, cover, suppressing fire, crowd control, frenzy), and different viable options every turn for each of those play styles. Also psykers.
>Patently wrong even if you're only talking melee. You have a standard attack, aim + attacks, swift attacks to do more attacks less accurately than an aimed one, charges, all out attacks, stunning strikes, feints, defensive stances, parrying stances, and a simple grappling system that works.
and swift attack is statistically better than ALL of those ALL the time if you have over 30 WS and 2 attacks. It's just math.
with maybe the exception of parrying stance if you know you're the one tanking.
I do agree with you on the third point though, the system works fine out of combat if the GM remembers that not all tests are challenging (+0)
Not sure how GW hasn’t sued this hack yet
The magic system is this weird tumor that's neither here nor there and doesn't mechanically fit with the rest of the system whatsoever.
What? Warhammer has one of the best magic systems I've seen in an rpg.
Why are they releasing a new edition of a setting they fucking killed? Really ignobly too I might add.
Over what?
>Why are they releasing a new edition of a setting they fucking killed?
Because there are enough pathetic fantashits remaining to make it possible to make a buck
>Really ignobly too I might add.
Cry more.
because that was the condition under which they would do an AoS rpg setting. Which will in all likelyhood flop
Plagiarism.
if you like PbtA games....
Is this going to be the new DOA?
I'm honestlly all out of fucks, too busy playing shadespire now.
Just because the Zweihänders managed to cobble together a half-decent Warhammery game that happens to be compatible with older editions doesn't make it plagiarism.
If that was the case, 90% of the RPGs released since Chainmail would be plagiarism, and if GW weren't comprised of utter retards they would have released a better game by themselves.
Neither.
You should play Zweihander, its an updated 2e.
4e will just be as disappointing as 3e was.
Lolno. It isn't being made by FFG.
2e is good, but as others have said, it's dated. Even for its time it was a clunky RPG system intended for hardcore fans of the tabletop who were already used to clunky and numbers-heavy gameplay. It hasn't aged well honestly, and while it's still the best WFRPG system, it's not a very good system on its own.
Zweihander is similar, but even clunkier. I couldn't stand getting past character creation of Zweihander, even though I love WF and like the 2e RPG a lot.
Fuck off Carnac.
This right here probably is the downfall of WFRP 2e.
The combat is incredibly simplistic, and the weapons don't feel very balanced. Guns are worthless, Spears and Great Weapons are the best for combat, and with how difficult it is to use less combat-centric skills it means most encounters and quests devolve into just that.
>2e is good
D&Dfags hate it because it's not a 'win automatically' button.
Anyone have a link to Zweihander.
Here you go senpai doko dot moe/uekbsc.pdf
>doko dot moe/uekbsc.pdf
site gives me a 404 with that one
Try a.pomf.space/wcnspgdhfvat.1
Or you could buy Zweihander on drivethrurpg...
It’s not that expensive...
Personally I am just checking it out to see if it is as clunky as people say it is. I will probably wait and spend my money on 4th edition.
Thanks user. I love the little Kickstarter backer portrait they added in here.
Zweihander is solid & I really like some of the odd takes they have with some stuff. Like nymphs having magic breast sap. Or orx victims mutating into more orx. All the tables give a solid dark/low fantasy vibe & the tone of the material is spot on too.
Holy shit. I knew this was pretty much WHFRPG remade, but I didn't expect it to be this on the nose. Good stuff though
It was given away free on Halloween, but you should still buy some part of it, if you like it user.
Fantashits have never been stronger since the release of Total Warhammer.
Is there actually any proof whatsoever that, of the two games they're making, they only wanted to do one, and were told they had to make the other as well?
And personally, I'd prefer that both games do well. Then AoS might get some lore that actually interests me.
Hope you all remember to buy the best Warhammer system.
From what I understand they originally intended to do WFRP but where offered the AOSRP too and took it in stride (Jon Hogson has some biu-tiful Kharadrons).
Anyways, they said they wanted to do it a la fallout 1, you being a survivor of the Age of Chaos exploring the world (though it may or may not vary with the end result!), so to me it looks good.
Neat, wh 1ed vibes!
>reach p.13, pic related
...nevermind, into the trash it goes
The system is pretty good but the developer is a huge cunt, and it shines through in pretty much everything he does. That's why you should pirate it only.
He also Googles his own game constantly so he's probably in this thread.
>Neat, wh 1ed vibes!
>>reach p.13, pic related
>...nevermind, into the trash it goes
Oh fuck off.
>Muh triggered SJWs fucking ruin the hobby don't even read games they complain about amirite?
>Muh game used a bad SJW word I can't handle it not reading anymore never touching it again fuck this game
To be fair i don't really care about such stuff as long the game is good, but in this case it may correspond to what the game setting want to comunicate.
You see Zweihander aim to reproduce Warhammer setting, a grimdark place but also grotesque, ricoulous and picaresque, extreme without taking itself seriously.
But such statement make it crumble like an housecard these vibes, because samehow it make it seems that the game take itself seroiusly.
So what it leaves is a grimdark place and that's all.
The system itself can be very good, but i don't need such thing (i'm plenty of generic and setting specific rpg systems)
>How dare they do something that has no effect on me?!
I was somewhat put off when I saw him donating to other Kickstarters so he could advertise in the comments section.
You guys get asshurt over nothing
If that little note triggers you, don't read the WHFRP 2nd ed Bretonnian supplement
Yeah I thought that when I first read it.
Didn't stop me making a racist/sexist campaign. Which the rules support.
Just a throwaway box to appease sjws in 700 pages.
The guy is a fucking douche. By all accounts Zweihander is still an excellent game.
OHMAI neckbeard triggered, news at 9! If you can't get the hell over a blanket statement about the royal 'they', then maybe you shouldn't be playing RPGs.
To note, I read the dang thing cover to cover and I can assure you, there isn't ANY agenda pushing in Zweihander's writing. GTFO if you find inclusive statements like this are offensive.
The rest of the book is a fucking darling of a game. It doesn't pull any punches. The book even talks about using racial tension as a campaign thread! It's a mature RPG that doesn't take itself too seriously (plenty of dark humor intermixed with dark themes).
This pronoun stuff predates any sort of 'upset' among neckbeards bitching about agendas. Come read my review if you want to understand what this game is about. I don't pull any punches, but I can tell you this: Zweihander grim & perilous isn't your traditional indie game. It's a full-blown darling of an OSR retroclone with beautiful art and fantastically simple mechanics:
princeofnothingblogs.wordpress.com
Hey I think I found him
Yeah, I really liked the description. Zweihander's bestiary reads more like Grimm's Fairy Tales than traditional Warhammer or D&D. Basically it says that Nymphs mate with people and produce patricidal Redcaps (which also have a fucking rad description):
The Nymphs also produce a syrupy breast milk; one they squeeze into clay jars to nourish the tree’s roots with. Normally the Nymph is very shy and modest; if they are sighted by an outsider, they will turn Æthereal and enter the tree they tend, only emerging when the interloper is gone. But do
not threaten their tree or gardens in any way, as this can only lead to death. If the plant is at risk, the Nymph will emerge from their hiding place as the terrible creature called L’wraithian (a word in Elvish meaings 'haunt'). In this violent form of nature’s wrath, their skin hardens to
bark, their fingers elongating into claws and they take on the aspects of the seasons while maintaining a hauntingly terrible and wrathful beauty.
Woodland Nymphs have a notorious weakness for musicians and singers – inviting them to sexual congress in more than one way if they can spin a beautiful lyric. This is often used to obtain a sampling of the Nymph’s breast milk, which has intrinsic healing properties and is used in druidic spells. In exchange, the Nymph will often coyly ask for the seducer’s seed. However, these matings breed terrible fruit in the form of malicious Redcaps. These slight Fey grow like apples from the Nymph’s limbs, until they eventually fall off and burst into new life. The Red Cap is then rumored to eventually return and kill its father, which is where the crux of the deal lies.
it's funny how people get so bent out of shape about it, post here anonymously and then never confront the writer on zweihander's facebook page or at strike to stun. he sent me a copy, i called him out on it and he's been engaging in my threads. it's not like this bro is some sort of flag-waving RPG terrorist taking away your rights to play how you want.
Plus they are actually the reason why 2e and 1e are being sold again and were in that big-huge HumbleBundle.
I posted that, and last I checked I was not the author of Zweihander. I also posted this .
See user, it is possible to find triggered idiots endlessly annoying without being a shill. That being said I think you can be forgiven for making assumptions. The guy has been banned from every rpg forum I can think of for shilling his game.
I thought this was a Warhammer thread not a thread about a piece of shit plagerized clone?
And if you doubt the plagerism, take a look at the bestiary. There’s skaven plague monks for fucks sake. You can’t look at that picture and tell me that shit ain’t fully plagerized. I wish GW would sue that fuck out of existence.
By the way, fucko, you aren’t fooling anybody with your obvious shilling. The fact that you literally gave the game away for free and still nobody likes the piece of shit should say something. Go neck yourself and let people talk about a real game.
Eat a giant buffet of dicks. We know you’re the so-called “developer.”
Knights of the Grail is a solid book, and one of the knighty oath talents is how my group balances firearms
Problem i have with WFRP 2E is that once you get 2-3 attacks from certain careers there is rarely any use to do anything else but spend your round attacking (maybe lightning parry if you are surrounded) all other nifty half/full actions simply isn't as good as 3 attacks per round.
KotG managed to destill everything wrong with 2e into one book. By itself, it isn't awful. As a WFRP-supplement , it is pretty awful.
This. Shadow of the Demon Lord is great, especially switching from 5e.
The system cries out for an update, especially in combat. I think Mythras would work for it pretty well, since it has a similar idea with character creation and progression being based on a career.
I've been itching to finally run The Enemy Within. I'm just trying to decide on a system at the moment.
>All those tables cross referencing other tables
This shit is as 80's as it gets.
What specifically is wrong with it? It's been a while since I've read it
Hang on, and there's a not like that in my AD&D player's handbook too! God damn SJWs and their Time-Wizards going back in time to ruin games that came out decades ago, no one is safe!
*note
Fuck off to you mate, keep your sjw shill out
>pic related
Seriously, how the fuck would you make a trasgender character in a setting where it is litterally a mark of chaos?
Just go play some shit d&d homebrew fucko
Hey, I got it for free. At that price I can force myself to call it half-decent.
Sup RPGPunsit or one of his many band of knob-polishers. Y’all had a hard on for it until your lord and tastemaker John Tarnowski instructed you to no longer like anything that wasn’t Dark
Albion.
Clearly you don’t know who the duck Slaneeah is. Do you even Warhammer or are you just a troll?
>no... distinctions between females and males of any race
Okay, good. Regardless of real life, people should be able to play the kind of character they want.
>the same goes for transgender Characters
?!?!?!?
I’m sure he’s laughing all the way to the bank. Love it or hate him the game is the #4 top seller of all time on DriveThruRPG : drivethrurpg.com
Wrong thread, mate. The RuneQuest-thread died 4 months ago.
What really gets me is this
>any social inequalities in the campaign world should be addressed directly with your GM.
murder, war, violence, torture, demons, etc. are A-OK
but if your DM does discrimination, speak with him, that shit is bad.
Agreed m8. The inclusion of an inclusivity statement can easily be forgiven in light of the dearth of other cool shite in zweihander. It’s become my groups go-to while we wait for wfrp 4th.
Actually the game has story themes built around discrimination. It’s pretty mature in its tone. You’re reading into that statement too closely mate.
Discrimination is part of average day in Warhammer, i should know I've played a Halfling in Stirrland.
>The system cries out for an update, especially in combat.
>especially in combat
As if it has anything to improve on anywhere else.
The skills can be a bit lackluster, and character progression is kinda weird in how it's presented. It works, but it could be much clearer.
The problem is that when people say combat needs to be improved, that includes basically every single aspect of combat that isn't the critical hits tables. The action economy, weapon balance, progression of combat abilities, and maneuvers are all fucked.
Combat in 2e sucks. It's basically D&D-style "stand still, make multiple attacks" coupled with damage reduction and le exploding dice maymay. Not good.
I'm calling it shit, not praising it.
You need to work on your communication skills.
You need to learn to read, stupid cunt.
Nope. Far as I’m concerned, you’re both no talent cunts.
I just came to the realization, that despite having been into warhammer fantasy for 15 years or something,I know woefully little about the internal lore for Empire, Dwarves, High Elves, Dark Elves and all that jazz. The various city names for Empire for instance just being names on the map in my Orcs and Goblins book that shows big WAAAAAAGHHs. For instance, I never really bothered thinking about how Marienburg would differ from the rest, and beyond that Hochland has the gats and some southern part maybe Wissenburg or something has the Knights of the Blazing Sun, the Moot is hobbits, and elector counts have special bad ass swords.
I think that's about it.
I have like a 100ish orcs and 200+ goblins of various sorts, but all I really know is the orc and goblin lore.
>filename
Check your cis privilege, Sigmarite.
Curious at all the Zweihander hate here. Could anyone explain why certain canons get so triggered by it? I've barely heard about it so I'm curious.
I think the majority of hate is directed at the writer (who is an annoying twat), not the game.
It's because Zweihander isn't actually a very good system, and it's just blatant plagiarism cashing in on the temporary hiatus in WFRP releases. The biggest problem though is that the author is a colossal cunt, shilling his product everywhere on Veeky Forums, even going so far as convincing the Da Archive guy(s) to agree to not include Zweihander pdfs in their archives.
He also got some archives friendly fired chimping out to protect "his" (lmao) IP. So while I won't be pirating it (because I don't want it), I certainly won't be paying for it.