Neutral/grey empire vs evil rebels

>thinking theres a way to rationalize tge empire
The empire is nazi germany if all the propaganda was true, except the holocaust.

Nova covert ops did a decent slice at that, with the Dominion now ruled by Valarien instead of his evil dad. It's undergoing reforms, but lots of groups still assume he's going to just be Mengsk the 2nd, and those profiting from the old regime end up disliking the reforms and setting up a rebel group to destabilize his rule

Give the rebels relatively selfish reasons compared to the existence of the greater political entity. Of course, this is going to trigger moral relativists who will argue that anyone deserves self-determination.

But if the empire is tolerant, like Khan's Mongolia, and it doesn't make sense for them to split besides having their name on the door, then I think you could pull it off.

Or, the rebels just worship the lord of Blood or something.

Empire is fine. It's grandiose. Like federations, unions, alliances sound nice, but it loses that feeling of huge and powerful. Plus the figurehead at the top sounds cooler as Emperor, rather than Prime Minister or President.

Look up the Bolsheviks.

You can do it as evil empire still. Most people overlook that as part of the machinations of empire building comes order. Order makes people safe. It reduces crime where it can or at least where it doesnt benefit the empire, reduces poverty and tends to provide for its citizens. It has to keep most of them happy otherwise it wouldnt have huge support and rebels would be everywhere. Play up the good it does, even if some might disagree with the methods.

Make the rebles a group or racists and the empire a flawed but not evil goverment.

This, despite the negative connotations our history has given it. It also bears connotations of strength, solidarity and unity, all things a self respecting nation and it's people usually do want along with civil rights and liberties

So what skyrim attempted

Government Forces defending a Republic that has successfully ruled Earth peacefully from corporate mercenaries and fanatical xenophiles.

I think one of the best ways to do it without having the Empire be too artificially clean and whitewashed is to have them be something that people are proud to be in and their soldiers (whenever in the Empire they come from) want to fight for.

Things like the French Foreign Legion and British Gurkha regiments that people join willingly.
The crowning example of this sort of thing is stuff like the battle of Saragarhi, where an all colonial unit of 21 Indians fought to the last man in Afghanistan against thousands of rebel tribesmen for the Empire in a last stand to buy British forts time that India even still recognises

Reminds me of the Imperial Knights from the starwars legacies era

Unironically this. Real world ISIS is an evil rebel group fighting a bunch of neutral "empires".

What morally wrong things did the empire do?

The Imperium vs. Heretics & Renegades.

Oh? don't know much about them

Or the roman tribal/vassal auxiliaries, you had loads of people joining the legions (minimum 20 years iirc) to have roman protection and later citizenship

Slavery, genocide, destroying loyal planets for the actions of 2 people, wastefulness, wanton cruelty to their own staff.

By this point the imperial reminents had been united under Emperor Fel, a reformist and former Jedi with a vested interest om rallying the resources for good,v many Jedi joined up as imperial knights, then darth kryat had to ruin it

>slavery
not shown in movies
>genocide
not shown in movies
>destroying loyal planets for the actions of 2 people
It was one planet whose entire elected government was complicit in supporting a rebellion that was killing countless people.
>wastefulness
The exact opposite, the empire was cheap and frugal.
>wanton cruelty to their own staff
Only the actions of one guy.

Iraq right when ISIS invaded.

Your Empire, while proud, recently went through a brutal period of civil war and regime change after the "Alliance" defeated your asshole Emperor/Dark Lord/whatever. It is holding together still but heavily divided on sectarian lines, only aggravated by the majority group in power is oppressing the minorities and is basically a puppet for one of your neighbors.

So when the rebels invade, many flock to join them for a better option- including thousands of the Empire's Soldiers. Though it soon turns out these rebels are absolutely psychotic lunatics who like to burn and crucify people who don't follow their beliefs. The Empire only stays afloat when the "Alliance" intervenes, but not much of the country has turned into a lawless area where militias battle the new rump state and foreign powers play their cards close to their chest.

Will the country survive, or will it burn?

Rip off Gundam for the nth time.

The expanded universe is a thing man

Not him, but not anymore

Not canon.

>not shown in movies
Yes, it was. That's the reason they disguised Chewbacca as a slave.
>not shown in movies
You mean, beside blowing up a planet?
>It was one planet whose entire elected government was complicit in supporting a rebellion that was killing countless people.
Oy vey, US is complicit in supporting rebels in Syria. Let's nuke it and kill every last american!
>Only the actions of one guy.
Two guys, with the Emperor described by Vader as even more ruthless and unforgiving

Sounds like the American civil war.

>Yes, it was. That's the reason they disguised Chewbacca as a slave.
They specifically said prisoner.
>You mean, beside blowing up a planet?
It's not genocide. It wasn't ethnically, racially or species motivated. Nuking Hiroshima didn't count as a genocide.
>Oy vey, US is complicit in supporting rebels in Syria. Let's nuke it and kill every last american!
Proxy wars =/= full on total war with another political body

>Two guys, with the Emperor described by Vader as even more ruthless and unforgiving
It's never shown and it's clearly not common place as the first force choke came as a surprise.

BRING THE GOOD OL BUGLE BOYS AND SING ANOTHER SONG
SING IT WITH THE SPIRIT THAT WILL START THE WORLD ALONG
SING IT AS WE USED TO SING IT FIFTY THOUSAND STRONG
WHILE WE WERE MARCHING THROUGH GEORGIAAAAA

HURRAH
U
R
R
A
H

WE BRING THE JUBILEE

HURRAH
U
R
R
A
H

THE FLAG THAT MAKES YOU FREE
SO WE SANG THIS CHORUS FROM ATLANTA TO THE SEA
WHILE WE WERE MARCHING THROUGH GEORGIA

Best thing disney could do.

EU was horse shit.

Black Company?

You haven't seen how bad the new EU is.
I'm not even talking about all the xhe and zhe shit. I'm talking about absolutely braindead shit like Contingency.

Warhammer 40k

There is no faction except maybe orks that could be described as less than Evil in WH40k.

orks are evil by nature

Exodites/CWE are neutral

I get it, you're a troll who wasn't loved by their parents.
But there are infinitely better things you could be doing with your life.

Where is the argument?

It's okay to be wrong, user.

So far the new EU has done a poor showing and dumped most of the good stuff the old EU had in the process

Will you stop the mental gymnastics s you fucking empire apologist, I fucking hate your type, always arguing that the big bad guys are really good because moral relativist this or that. Take that garbage elsewhere and grow up you edgy cunt

Where is the unreasonable moral relativism?
The star wars movies do a terrible job at actually making the empire truly evil.
At the most, they're basic kind of dickishness you'd expect from any massive bureaucracy.
Make an argument at any time.

NCR vs Caesar's Legion

The empire was founded on values of justice, representative rule overseen by the emperor and order, but over time it has become conservative and stagnant. The so-called representatives have over time more and more become their own clique with their own interests, utterly ignorant if not uncaring about the grumblings of the masses. Multiple reforms have been attempted and all have failed so far.

The rebels use this inflexibility to push their own agenda and overthrow the empire, replacing it with a more tyrannical and totalitarian regime because they believe the problem with the empire is endless debates that go nowhere and the inability of the emperor to reign in the senate. If a group of true representatives of the people (who just happen to be the rebel leaders, imagine that!) led the entire country and nobody opposed them, everything would be alright.

Basically Roman Civil War meets Russian Revolution.

Killing a planet is more then dickish, or does human life mean nothing to you

Honestly, the human life isn't the most dickish part of destroying a planet. There's lots of humans, and humans breed. Human life can be restored. But the planet itself, and the environment and natural resources (excluding minerals which aren't destroyed) are lost for good.

It's a planet of traitors that were funding an opposing political body that had killed many of their fellow citizens.
It's war and you had these people flagrantly funding the enemy. An example had to be made.
That is a reasonable war time response. No different than glassing a village harboring enemy soldiers.

t. Tarkin

There is not a single justification possible for killing 3 billion civilians without any actual purpose.

Corrupt and unstable empire but it does its job well enough and keeps the peace vs rich and powerful merchants and nobles (who are responsible for the corruption and decadence) deciding they want more power (possibly the death of the emperor and the heir being a small child gives them the excuse needed to rise up) and have hired a massive mercenary army that don't care for the Imperial citizens and will rape, murder and raze their way to the capital.

Yall just got reduced to wailing like a retard bcuz someone on an anonymous imageboard asked you to back up an argument.

This isn't like Hiroshima where nuking it objectively saved at least 3 million people from dying and shortened a war.

It was a pointless, petulant murder of billions of people that would do nothing but cause far more people to join the rebellion.

Nuking a city is more than dickish, or does human life mean nothing to you?

United States v Taliban

How is US not evil? Because they happen to treat their own citizens fairly well when it doesn't get in the way of more important things such as profit?

Antifa vs America

...

Antifa are fucking stooges who, despite fashioning themselves rebels, are the foot soldiers of the establishment. They're pushing for exactly the same shit as most politicians in the West: more diversity, more inclusiveness, more mass migration, more censorship of "hate speech". Especially in the latter, these so-called rebels are effectively demanding that the government decides what is and isn't deemed double plus ungood.

They're the very definition of useful idiots.

oh look polshit

Bolshevik revolution.

french revolution

You'd better be talking about Napoleon and royalist rebels or I'll have to come over there and slap you.

Here's some basic math, user.

>Case [EU]: 90% of a thing is terrible. 10% is good.
>Case [Disney]: 100% of a thing is terrible.

In which case are you more likely to find something of quality?

The Empire is harsh and oppressive but generally "fair" in that they won't trouble you unless you've done something.

The Rebels are indescriminate, blowing up civilian and military targets alike and not caring who they hurt in the process.

Robespierre a shit

a SHIT

robespierre is one of the worst things to ever happen to mankind

>Slavery
to be fair, it was mostly prisoner slavery. sure, there were Wookie hunters who actually wore their pelts and shit but I mean, you could say they were just admiring Trandoshan culture. Everything else was just mining guild/hutt-contracted slaves.

>genocide
Yeah, there's no grey here, but hey, most of the rebellion planets like Alderaan had basically turned their entire planets towards arming the rebels. Should have turned the death star on Mon Cala and they'd have won the war outright.

>destroying loyal planets
jedda wasn't loyal, also only a moon, and scarif wasn't destroyed.

>wastefulness
Something being addressed by admirals like Thrawn, and likely would have seen serious change had more years passed after Tarkin's death.

>wanton cruelty
Not a strictly imperial practice.

>whose entire elected government was complicit
not shown in movies :^)

Honestly if you're going to be cheeky like that, Bail and Leia may as well be the entire elected government in the movies, so technically it was. Bail is already a traitor for aiding and abetting jedi criminals.

>It's war and you had these people flagrantly funding the enemy. An example had to be made.
>That is a reasonable war time response. No different than glassing a village harboring enemy soldiers.
Explain how this is different from >Oy vey, US is complicit in supporting rebels in Syria. Let's nuke it and kill every last american!

>>>
> Anonymous 11/09/17(Thu)13:58:16 No.56327012▶
>
>robespierre is one of the worst things to ever happen to mankind
>>>
> Anonymous 11/09/17(Thu)14:03:21 No.56327072▶
>
>>Slavery
>to be fair, it was mostly prisoner slavery. sure, there were Wookie hunters who actually wore their pelts and shit but I mean, you could say they were just admiring Trandoshan culture. Everything else was just mining guild/hutt-contracted slaves.
>>genocide
>Yeah, there's no grey here, but hey, most of the rebellion planets like Alderaan had basically turned their entire planets towards arming the rebels. Should have turned the death star on Mon Cala and they'd have won the war outright.
>>destroying loyal planets
>jedda wasn't loyal, also only a moon, and scarif wasn't destroyed.
>>wastefulness
>Something being addressed by admirals like Thrawn, and likely would have seen serious change had more years passed after Tarkin's death.
>>wanton cruelty
>Not a strictly imperial practice.
>>>
> Anonymous 11/09/17(Thu)14:03:54 No.56327082▶
> (You)
>>whose entire elected government was complicit
>not shown in movies :^)

The Organas were the only people in the alderaan government referred to and they were all complicit.

I'm not going to call the terror pleasant, but you do realize the only alternative was to roll over to the confirmed royalist uprisings that were confirmed to have been supported by the Coalition (and were the only reason the Committee for Public Safety was formed), right?

>inb4 "b-but the traitor king did nothing wrong, it was his divine right to betray his country! From my perspective it's the republicans who are evil ;_;"

Way to fuck up your post senpai

Wew I really fucked this post up. I need some sleep.

shouldnt have rebelled in the first place

In the moment it seemed reasonable, but the line of thinking spawned out of the french revolution has been eating at western civilization like a fucking parasite.
Future historians in the Hyper-China Imperium will point to the french revolution as a pivotal point in the destruction of western culture and civilization.

>representation and rights are destroying muh civilization

yeah yeah fuck off to your containment board alt-shit

>>neutral/grey empire vs evil rebels
so like literally star wars?

>but the line of thinking spawned out of the french revolution has been eating at western civilization like a fucking parasite
Can you elaborate on that? Because the only thing I can think of is American exceptionalists claiming the French Revolution is directly responsible for fascism and communism. I guess that's *technically* true in the sense that it utterly changed what "politics" meant in the West, but Hitler and Marx weren't exactly quoting Rousseau left and right, and Marxists were generally critical of the French Republics and Empires for how bourgeois they were (making them the anti-thesis of communism).

Yes, better suck the cock of the inept king fucking up the kingdom

Not sure that fits since the company ends up joining the rebellion in book 3.

truly its better to launch a bloody revolution, kill everyone who doesent look loyal enough and result in another monarch

The rebellion in the first books was pretty clearly evil, though. And the company itself weren't exactly good guys, either.

>I don't know shit about the french revolution
No, no, it was better to insist to transform the absolute monarchy into a constitutionnal one.
But just after the king accepted, he wanted to go back to the absolute one and he betrayed his country. Oops! I wonder why people got mad!

The Empire may have killed 3 billion on an attack on a hostile world,but how many died because of the Republic's incompetence?
youtu.be/lQdBPg1VBzU?t=138

>don't blow up Alderaan
>keep everything else the same, but write the story mostly from an empire pov

Umm no, the empire is objectively evil you drooling retard

If that youtube is a link to something about the clone wars like I think it is, I want you to take a step back and consider that that war was deliberately brought about by Sheev in a ploy to either win as the separatists or get himself crowned dictator for life by the republic.

I never claimed to be defending the republic's corruption, the empire I'd the culmination of it and palpatine only hastened that.

Can't tell if ironic autistic screeching or...

You can start making that argument any time now.

Yes it is.
And the new books and shit are as canon as the movies now. Thank Disney.