And why is it AD&D 2nd Ed?
>3.0: Broken.
>3.5: Less broken, but still needs house rules. A great d20 platform.
>4.0: Dragonball comic book bullshit.
>5.0: ??? not interested, tell me what's good about it.
Also post your favorite AD&D rules, lore, stories, etc etc.
>not B/X
If you're concerned with "purity" surely that's D&D basic 1st ed?
Nah. The original original is hacked together and not well thought out. I mean, you could play it, but it's basically just larping with friends. My question is which version of D&D best represents all of them. I grew up with 2nd Ed as a kid then rediscovered it with 3.5, which imo is probably the best suited for playing with but it doesn't have the same wondrous rare-magic feel of AD&D.
I really like the proficiency system
>inb4 people who can't do basic arithmetic complain about THAC0
Ill agree with the broken part for 3.5 but 3.5 is just A D&D plus. I mean do you really love thaco and race based lvl cap that much?
Currently running a 2e game using just the core rules for now. My favorite thing about it is just the way it nerfs magic users (for lack of a better term). Giving them an max amount of spells per spell level, having to roll to learn a spell, the time and resources it takes to write it down, material components!!, spell books being expensive and cumbersome to carry around. These are just some things at the top of my head which is why I play this system over the newer ones and mind you I have just started getting into the hobby.
Also the fact the game is really simple and to the point.
Also also the combat doesn't drag on like 3.5 and 5th and is lethal and unforgiving.
3.5 is very different from TSR D&D
>d20 system
>saving throw changes
>initiative changes
>no guaranteed noncombat XP
>feats
It makes for a very different, heavier game.
.5: Less broken, but still needs house rules. A great d20 platform.
>AD&D 2nd Ed
>not broken
Ha.
>If you're concerned with "purity" surely that's D&D basic 1st ed?
I'm not sure if you're talking about the first edition of D&D ever released (which is OD&D, original D&D), 1e (which is first edition AD&D), the first edition of Basic (which is Holmes Basic), or the first true edition of Basic (which is B/X, Moldvay Basic).
Swords & Wizardry does a pretty good job of making OD&D comprehensible. But if we're talking about official D&D editions, then Moldvay Basic is the way to go.
>I grew up with 2nd Ed as a kid then rediscovered it with 3.5, which imo is probably the best suited for playing with but it doesn't have the same wondrous rare-magic feel of AD&D.
3.x has some good ideas, but the execution is flawed, and in the end it's on overly-complicated, unbalanced clusterfuck. I've not actually played 5e, but it sure looks better than 3.x.
>broken
If you're talking dart fighters, that requires one to not read how initiative and ranged attacks work.
Even just the whole "Spellcasters suck and then they dominate the entire game" imbalance is a major issue. Dart Fighters are a pleb-tier meme.
This.
AD&D was when the rot started to se that resulted in WotC spinoffs.
Purest who gives a fuck
Best
3.5>2e>5e>b/x>>>>>>>>>>>>e
It's nice to have some additional options, but the extra material wasn't executed as well, and there was a lot of unnecessary shit in their too.
B/X had the same problem of magic-users sucking at low level (hell, they sucked worse), but they were a lot more restrained at higher levels.
>It's nice to have some additional options, but the extra material wasn't executed as well, and there was a lot of unnecessary shit in their too.
The nice thing about AD&D is that it's easy to overhaul portions of it without worrying about breaking the system as a whole
>What is the purest expression of D&D?
LBB.
has never played 2e
>What is the purest expression of D&D?
Clearly OD&D. Everything else is an iteration that moves further away from it.
D&D is nothing more than an empty brand name at this point. In that sense, 5e is its perfect expression as a system created purely around marketability.
>the combat doesn't drag on like 5th
Honestly the faster combat resolution is what kept me using 5th. AD&D is still faster but not by that much.
oriiginal is best.
>not rolling to check if you get psionics.
>4e
>Dbz comic book
I think you put that in 4e by accident when that describes 3.x.
mmm 5e feels easier to run and gives enough customization
>What is the purest expression of D&D?
Miniature wargames if you're talking about purity.
Basic or 1st Ed if you're talking about ease of use
2nd or 3rd if you're talking about character options
>I really like the proficiency system
>Basic or 1st Ed if you're talking about ease of use
1e is, if anything, less accessible than 2e, for layout reasons as well as silly rules like weapon bonus vs. AC table. Stick with B/X if you're looking for ease of use.
Psionics were a horrible thing to have.
3.5 is fucking horrible.
let's face it, he hasn't played any edition except possibly 3.5
He probably read the 4e books at least once.
Only if you don't know what you are doing.
I had a lot of fun with BECMI, ADnD 2ed and 3.X/PF, but for different reasons.
If I had to suggest on book to rule them all, I would go for Rules Cyclopedia.
>Rules Cyclopedia.
I would sooner recommend OSRIC, and OSRIC is a mess!
Ban the T1 and T2s and you can have a pretty good game.
What's wrong With RC?
It's about risk and reward though. In older editions, it's hard to get a magic user to a high level when you start with 4HP max, but if you do you get to wreck shit up. Overpowered wizards only started to become a problem after 3e when character survival became the expectation.
A great many transcription errors from BECMI. Most egregiously, moving and attacking in the same round is borked. Also the Mystic only gets 9 HD.
Time for Tiers of D&D
God Tier
B/X
BECMI
Rules Cyclopedia
Good Tier
AD&D 2e
4e
Meh Tier
AD&D 1e
5e
Bad Tier
White Box
Shit Tier
3.0
3.5
Bonus Tiers
Wannabe Tier
Palladium Fantasy
Fantasycraft
Legend
Strike!
Wannabe Shit Tier
Pathfinder
Holy Shit What Are You Doing Tier
FATAL
>Overpowered wizards only started to become a problem after 3e when character survival became the expectation.
It's much worse in 3e, but by the time you get to 2e, there are issues as well. Specialty wizards and a very large selection of spells that the player has some choice insofar as which ones they acquire puts 2e wizards way above their B/X peers. Hell, if you play strictly by the rules in B/X, you can only know as many spells as you can cast per day, period. And with much smaller spell lists, it's harder to break the game, especially if your GM is assigning the spells (the book says it's up to them whether you pick your spells or they pick for you).
It's OD&D and AD&D first combined. OD&D for being the purest expression of an oddly functional ad-hoc mess and AD&D first for being the most refined expression of Gygaxian naturalism we'd see put to paper.
People have been complaining about wizards for the game's entire lifespan.
The purest expression of DnD is the shit I took today, because all of DnD is made out of its ilk, nailed together with elf ears and dwarf d*cks.
>calling Fantasycraft a wannabe
That game is s masterpiece, and achieves the aim of being a general fantasy system so much better than any edition of D&D.
But nobody plays it so it is a wannabe. Wannabe Tier is not about quality it is about wanting to be D&D. Compare to Wannabe Shit Tier, that is a direct comment to the quality of the game.
t. 3.pfag
In 2e at least, the DM decides all of the spells a Wizard learns. They can try and research more, but the rules are pretty firm that it's ultimately up to the DM as to what they get when they level and what's available as a whole.
That alone cuts out a bunch of Wizard bullshit simply because you'll have a hard time cherry-picking an overpowered spell list that will break the plot and invalidate other party members.
fpbp
also, pic related heh
Each spell also has an initative penalty and any damage wastes the slot.
Don't forget how saves work in TSR D&D
This is why my group plays it too. Casters above 5th are still fucking destructors in encounters and can shut things down with a well-placed spell, but they're far from untouchable
Even at high levels you fight lots of weak shit, so that's not as big a deal as people like to make it out as.
Played a half dozen campaigns of 2e. Someone finally makes his roll to randomly get psionic powers! Dwarf Fighter with psionic, what'll it be? He randomly rolls and gets See Sound.
Worst anti-climax ever. I think he sorta got a use out of the power once in the game when we were kidnapped and imprisoned without equipment.
True AD&D™, for it is the expression of AD&D® than which there is none greater—for all forms of D&D® and AD&D® produced prior to summer of 2000. For all such systems, from OD&D to the final publications of "2E" (then united under the Advanced Dungeons & Dragons® banner with no edition) are one and the same, all informing one another. One can play a subset from amongst such rules, such as "B/X" or "AD&D 1E raw BtB", but still one must pluck one's material from the canon of True AD&D™. For only it is True, all others are false edition. 3E and later is false edition, purity ended in the autumn of 2000. This is known. True AD&D™ will grant you spells. The gold and experience earned feel real because they are. No other system has these properties. True AD&D™ magic.
Whats the problem? The more experienced you get in levels, the more grizzled and competent you are.
Druids, wizards, clerics, and sorcerors being banned LITERALLY means banning like a third of the entire core PHB for balance. Thats a serious issue.
> Thats a serious issue.
That's why is addressing it.
And what im saying is that removing a literal third of the base game classes shouldnt be necessary to begin with, and is a terrible sign for the system itself
Then all the splatbook gishes, partial casters, sneaky skillmonkeys, etc have a chance for their often interesting gimmicks to actually be useful.
That's still an improvement over making high level monsters bend over and take it up the ass with save or lose spells. Also the retardation that is Wizards being the best at fighting golems when they're specifically meant to counter golems.
>Druids, wizards, clerics, and sorcerors being banned LITERALLY means banning like a third of the entire core PHB for balance. Thats a serious issue.
honestly from what I've read if you want a more reasonably balanced 3.5 you should ban all Core PHB classes, alongside the aforementioned banning of T1 & T2 classes(and probably T5 classes as well)
To be fair, 4e's mechanics are very good for intentionally imitating battle shounen should you want to
Not the best at DBZ because people can't blow up planets or easily fly, but pretty damn good for One Piece, etc.
Moldvay Basic (B/X) because it has everything that makes D&D what it is without the cruft.
Second place goes to AD&D 1E for being the edition with literally everything iconic about D&D and the kitchen sink in it.
Original D&D with the white box is actually the most pure one in the literal sense though.
>2E above 1E
>4E above 1E
>1E with 5E
>BECMI/RC in highest
>White Box in Bad Tier
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
NECK YOURSELF FUCKING NORMIE
Bard is fine.
B/X represents the purest expression of D&D and we should all be grateful that Tom "The Bomb" Moldvay took time out from his busy schedule of slowing the population decline of the West to write the thing.