Legion Wars

Certainly not my Night Lords gold star jobbers

Iron within

II legion The Sons Of Sigmar would win

Name one bad thing the Ultramarines ever did... I'll wait

Same Primarch also said, in the same book, that the Wolves were the strongest of all the Emperors legions. Selective reasoning just is grand.

Their insignia (among other things)

His Wolves, or Russ's Wolves?

If he's talking his, then I'd agree - overall they were the strongest, with high numbers, a huge fleet, incredible aggression and a great commander.
But any assault on a fortress inherently favours the defender, and Dorn and his boys were a master at that, hence the stalemate, and hence why I say 'good odds' not 'would 100% outright be the best' - I'd suspect that the Phalanx and the Sons' natural need to be the aggressor could tip it to the Fists

II Legion will win in the end :P

>is this bait.jpg
The whole design of the Alpha Legion is that tha need no chain of command, user.

Ultramarines because they're the most numerous legion out there

Set off a beacon drawing the Tyranids to the galaxy.

Depends on the time Period. In the very early days of the Great Crusade, First Legion was bigger than all other legions combined. They were still the second largest after the Third Ragdan Xenocide. Plus they got all the experimental technology. Dreadwing was one of the most powerful wings in all the legions - a fraction of it almost destroyed Macragge.

I'd put my money on them.

With primarchs I'd say Dark Angels. Lion was the best strategist and had the most powerful tools. He sucked at non violent conquest and diplomacy but was otherwise a contender for warmaster.

>doesn't work on the space wolves because they can smell their own (literally a quote from alaxxes)
>doesn't work on the blood angels because totally-not-heretical blood drinking rituals would give away that there's an outsider there
>doesn't work on the thousand sons because with that many psykers, someone will detect the intruders
>doesn't work on the word bearers because they have daemon allies who will tell them something's wrong
>or sons of horus, for the same reason as above
>doesn't work on the world eaters - the alpha legion infiltrate fine, but the nails take too many of them into madness to execute their clever plans properly
>doesn't work on the emperor's children because they regularly gene-test their ranks for impurities & flaws.
To be clear, not saying they couldn't infiltrate some dudes here or there into the above, but they're not getting enough agents into place to throw the entire legion into chaos.

Also, the other legions are still competent in their own right, may realise something's up, and take action (like the raven guard who started regularly gene-testing every legionary after the battle of kiavahr). Seriously, "we'll win easily because our schemes are perfect" is the whole reason Alpharius died.

Alpha legion has hypno-indoctrination. Half of the entire legion could already be members without even knowing.

One day a word bearer or space wolf hears a strange phase over their vox from an unknown ID and they decide to launch a heavy orbital bombardment on their primary encampment then trigger their plasma reactor to explode.

checkmate.

>half of every legion could be alpha legion
Come on m8, this is just fanwank. They've got a lot of dudes, but they don't have that many dudes. Try to get less of your lore from memes, the horus heresy wasn't actually fought between the alpha legion wearing 9 different paint schemes and the alpha legion wearing 10 different paint schemes.

Also they have regular human support them all the time.

The right guy in the right place could starve the legion out because he put the wrong decibel on a logistics paper. Or their promethium could contain3% more lead on "accident" and all their engines fowl with exhaust after training excercises. Or holy bolter rounds are manufactured with a defect and don't carry their secondary charge, falling harmlessly to the ground around 20m from their barrels during the heat of combat...

You don't have to replace have the guys either, if you create enough confusion it will carry and they do the work for you.

>wrong decibel
Well, he'd upset the Kakophani, at least.

even memes aside, just one or two dudes in the right place, in the right time could crush them without the AL needing to fire a shot.

Imagine you invade a world and set up shop only to have your fleets warp drives malfunction beyond repair and all your astropathic messages are blocked and your supply lines cut.

wait a decade or two and see what remains of your great war machine (especially bad if the world was a hive and requires resources from outside to function on a daily basis).

>your fleets warp drives malfunction beyond repair and all your astropathic messages are blocked and your supply lines cut
>one or two dudes
Yep, utter fanwank.

It happened to the White scars for over 80% of the heresy.

Only reason khan even noticed was because he got outside warning.

If AL was willing to fire on their fleet before it made exit they would have never left.

Also they refused to help the SW because the AL were feeding them lies over the astropathic net and the furrys almost got squatted without DA coming out of nowhere to help.

Next to Horus, they had the largest fleet in the heresy.

>over 80% of the heresy
Uh-huh.

And it's not like the khan was checking his phone anyway, he was having too much fun chasing orks on his jetbike.

This situation is especially funny because I'm pretty sure neither the WS or DA knew who was loyal and who wasn't.

WS refused to take a side for this reason and DA probably decided to take action and just join up with whoever they happened to save (or thought the mutated chapter was actually servants of Horus and claimed "it was the plan all along" while sweat runs down their brows).

>Name one bad thing the Ultramarines ever did... I'll wait

Monarchia

A year is pretty impressive considering the siege didn't happen in isolation and only a really small portion of the AL was there in the first place.

Also AL basically never had to fire a shot to do it and still managed to keep the scars in the dark about their loyalties long afterward (allowing them to kick puppies for a good deal of time)

Alpha Legion. I just don't know how anyone could beat them.

Actually there's a short story where an Alpha Legion operative during the heresy start sabotaging a planet. Basically goes undercover in cities, block some transmission, prep people agaisnt one another, hype up the threat of the warmaster coming, etc. Basically fooling everyone into thinking that agents of the warmaster are there. Then at the end he explain that this is but a single world, and the sons of horus or the alpha legion doesn't have the number to send a bunch of marine to disrupt the planet, but their reputation is so big that they just need to make it seems like they were there for people to believe it utterly and starts doing a total witch hunt.

Alpha legion isn't magically everywhere, they just use their reputation to make it seems like they are.

Cut the head off and two more will take it's place!

These are traitor marines without the benefit of a divine patron or the protection of the eye of terror. Yet they remain probably the most numerous and constant threat to the Imperium while hiding in plain sight almost over 10,000 years later.
This is without warp fuckery. Stand back, we are talking about the UNBROKEN CHAIN!

It's easier to work out which ones wouldn't stand much of a chance, then work from there.

>Least likely
I'd say Death Guard and World Eaters are too comfortable with losses and walking headlong into traps, they'd get utterly fucked by a half competent tactician.

>Less likely
Word Bearers, Emperor's Children, Space Wolves and Thousand Sons have weird pridefulness or ideology than can be exploited, and they are prone to warp-fuckery that can backfire.

>Too specialized
Iron Warriors, White Scars, Imperial Fists, Night Lords, Blood Angels, Iron Hands and Raven Guard are all well known for one particular style of warfare, which can be exploited.

>Hyper-specialized
Alpha Legion, although its debatable that no legion could outsmart or counter them.

So basically, it's between Salamanders, Alpha Legion, Dark Angels, Ultramarines or Sons of Horus. It would probably go one of the latter two seeing as they are commended as being the greatest legions, but we never get a chance to see the former three at their best.

>Alpha legion isn't magically everywhere, they just use their reputation to make it seems like they are.

Which is basically the same thing. The truth and a lie are the same, that's the whole fucking point.

If you believe the AL are around every corner, they may as well be. Cults will start wanting to appease them, authorities will react to suppress the idea which will cause other people to react to the oppression and the cycle feeds itself into a chaotic frenzy of paranoia and heavy handed fear.

AL conquer worlds they never set foot on through whispers.

Beat me to it.

I have one question, how do you tell AL is dead?

Of all the legions, they are the hardest to kill and there isn't a time limit in this hypothetical scenario.
You could have them popping up 1,000 years later to fuck with the legion the "beat them" in the first place.

They are the legion that doesn't need a command structure or set tactics to function and every one of them is trained to hide and misdirect in the extreme. The local population will be blowing up bridges or setting IEDs under marine footsteps for centuries and grind them to dust.

exactly, however as much as I love AL, I doubt that would be as efficient against other space marine legions.

>They are the legion that doesn't need a command structure or set tactics to function and every one of them is trained to hide and misdirect in the extreme.

You know it's wank when the people posting ALwank can't even tell the difference anymore.

>I have one question, how do you tell AL is dead?

The victor is the legion that controls the particular planet in OP's question - you don't have to wipe the enemy out to win. Alpha legion are good at infiltrating but all another legion would have to do is to use Apothecaries to test the DNA of their command structure. That would keep the AL out. The AL could have sleeper cells in caves and bunkers, but being a nuisance to supply lines and infrastructure doesn't constitute "control". Similarly, any Space Marine legion could just wipe out the local population if the AL were getting them to cause trouble.

I still think the AL could be the best legion, but I think short-term misdirection tactics would be more effective than a long term strategy. Legions like the Sons have Horus have shown that they can overcome shit like communication lines being broken, so I would still say they they have the edge.

>use Apothecaries to test the DNA of their command structure.

You realize they have mastered gene therapy and have specific means to avoid that type of detection, right?

A ton of AL are actually unmodified humans and there isn't a single legion that doesn't have human support.

The truth is the lie, user.

Why don't you get this yet?

>You realize they have mastered gene therapy and have specific means to avoid that type of detection, right?
You realise that's literally how the raven guard purged their ranks of AL infiltrators at the end of Deliverance Lost, right?

>implying

Is this the same book where they steal the gene code for their raptors and corrupt it but keep the real serum for themselves?

Fabious Bile can't match that gene work. If agents were found, they were found for a reason. Probably to put RG at ease or tie up loose ends.
It wouldn't surprise me it they burned their own members for intelligence preservation.

Iron hands. Right guys? RIGHT?

I hate both legions but Space Wolves are a hard counter to Alpha legion. They can smell the difference between one of their own and an infiltrator.

You could kill Alpharius a million times (even the real one) it will have no effect on how AL functions.

>w-well clearly the infiltrators got discovered on p-p-purpose
>it's impossible t-that we could lose in any way
ALfags are so fucking pathetic.

>They can smell the difference between one of their own and an infiltrator.

Not if the infiltrator is their own. That's the point.

Dude, just stop. You're contradicted by the lore in Black Library books (the line user's referencing that the wolves "can smell their own" is pretty much a direct quote, in a book covering the early stages of Alaxxes). Your headcanon does not trump official lore.

Invite dorn (closest to terra) into a protracted battle that decimated his legion before the largest battle of the war and entice him with the head of your primarch.

>I got him guys!

Yup you sure showed them traitors how to get a phyrric victory on the eve of the most massive invasion of Imperial history. Almost like they wanted it to happen... wait.

The truth is the lie.

The truth is the lie.

Calth

Ebin.

TS in its hayday could wreck almost any legion before it. Their warpcheats are insurmountable.

Imperium secondus you fucking toilet-lid nigger

memes are power

We joke but that's literally what they are.
Words become ideas, become beliefs and eventually truth.

A lie repeated often enough, by enough people and that remains consistent becomes truth.

memes predate us all and have more influence than people want to believe.

Salamanders are too specialized also. I'll count them out of the top.

>Words become ideas, become beliefs and eventually truth.

Even if every person on /tg became an ALwanker nothing will change.

Yeah, because in 2 years no one in the entire legion would ever notice a marine without helmet during their time outside war

you think too small

the word is a virus, it repeats and spreads.

If it spreads far enough, GW employees hear the meme in jest and repeat...and repeat... and repeat. Until the truth and the meme are the same and we are cannonized as such.

The Truth is the lie.

the electoo has a 2 year delay so you can't see it until the cinematic reveal.

I'd imagine the IF and IW would fare well, since they can set up defences and fortresses in no time, and expand from there. The other legions can do the same, but lack the expertise these two legions got.

They can camp for sometime, while some legions bloody themselves. If the other legions lay seige, it will be costly because of traps and a stubborn defence.

I'd imagine the NL and WE most fucked.

NL are fuck no matter what, they are fighting space marines not teenagers having sex in the woods after midnight.

>Every member of the Legion is as cunning and physically capable as their Primarch
ALfags everyone.

>A lie repeated often enough, by enough people and that remains consistent becomes truth.
No. It's just a lie that people think is true, nothing more

>"B-But victory."
>"I t-totally meant to lose this battle, decimate my Legion, and get beheaded."
>"Why doesn't anyone believe me?"

Their terror tactics can be usefull agains't the serfs, which will delay part of the war effort.
Their main problem is the lack of discipline.

And an awful command structure.

tell me the difference

If the battle was without primarchs, I'd say World Eaters would win against a few. Namely ultramarines, case in point: armatura.
>But they had word bearers!
The word bearers did almost nothing to help the World eaters.

The world eaters for the most part never had a solid leader to begin with.
Also, the UM managed to get the world eaters to charge a fucking gunline with a storm shield wall, artillery support, and tanks but somehow they fucked up probably the easiest thing to no fuck up.

Also Angron>Girlyman

The same exact thing could be said about the iron cage dornlett.

>case in point: armatura.

You do realize the Ultramarines on Armatura were hopelessly outnumbered? It was only the Evocati - a force of several thousand veterans who instructed recruits.

>Also, the UM managed to get the world eaters to charge a fucking gunline with a storm shield wall, artillery support, and tanks but somehow they fucked up probably the easiest thing to no fuck up.

This was their last stand at the end of a protracted battle. That's why their leader sought death by striding out and challenging all the World Eater officers.

You realize that the IF were basically crippled for the rest of the heresy after pluto and the AL were almost unscratched when they took off after Alpharius died.

I'm even giving Dorn the benefit of the doubt and saying that was the real dude.

IF fucked up that battle hard, just because someone taunted their primarch into a stupid man fight.

Mhmm yes Armatura, the battle where Angron almost was buried alive for good.

I like the WE, but fuck the butchers nails makes them retarded at times, like when they charged the rigged bunkers. It was a costly victory.

They would lose because of attrition against a smarter legion.

Don't recall Praetorian Of Dorn saying IF were crippled, or AL got off unscratched. Where's this coming from?

How were they crippled?

>You realize that the IF were basically crippled for the rest of the heresy after pluto and the AL were almost unscratched when they took off after Alpharius died.
No, they weren't. Are you retarded?

>I'm even giving Dorn the benefit of the doubt and saying that was the real dude.
Omegon sensed his death from across the galaxy, dude.

>IF fucked up that battle hard, just because someone taunted their primarch into a stupid man fight.
Lol, the Fists barely suffered any losses at all and the AL got completely outmaneuvered and defeated.

Ultrafag btfo.

You never read about the CIA I assume? Stuff like that is rather tame.

Anyone sane would find that fishy. But I guess someone like that also would not use "lol" here.

>The Alpha Legion is omniscient and everything is just as planned!
Alternatively you could accept your precious Legion got totally BTFO by an autistic bannana

The whole battle of terra talks about the IF having their back broken and even with their defensive skill were not anywhere need ready for the invasion after multiple exhaustive battles.

World Eaters should have been blasted off the surface and the traitors should have never gotten as close to the palace as they did.

Dorn is good at what he does, Horus and Alpharius knew this so they fucked his legion beforehand in protracted conflicts without any real reward.

Pluto and all the events leading up to it only had one purpose because no way in hell would AL have tried to break the whole of Sol even if they took Pluto.

Dicking around during the Horus heresy. Granted, you're technically not doing a bad thing when you're doing absolutely fucking nothing.

Hahaha fuck you're a funny guy, user.